C3PX

So you guys really knew that that the SEs would replace the originals? For some reason I was really ignorant of it. I remember the one last time campaign very well, but I thought it was just marketing. Disney has been doing that forever, saying such and such a movie was only going to have a limited release, then they would put it out again years later.

The one last time never came off to me as literal, though perhaps it should have. When the SE came out I was very excited and went to see each one in the theater. I loved seeing them on the big screen, and I considered the changes a bonus. I thought the changes were kind of cool, but just to experience something different. I even set aside the money to buy them on VHS even tough I had a perfectly good faces set.

I didn't get a DVD player until 2001, and didn't start collecting DVDs in earnest until a few years after that. For years my DVD collection consisted of Monty Python and the Holy Grail, and Star Trek Insurrection. One day I decided I probably ought to get Star Wars on DVD and discovered that it wasn't out yet. I read that George had no intention of releasing them until after Episode III came out, and that seemed too long to wait, so I bought the trilogy on VCD. I was annoyed only the special edition existed on VCD, but went with it, deciding it would hold me off until the real DVD release. I actually made my own edit of the VCDs before I even knew OT.com existed or heard about fan editing. I made Han shoot first, removed Jabba, and inserted the line "You're sure lucky you don't taste very good" into ESB.

Until I started doing research into the matter, which is about the time I discovered this place (about 2003 or 2004) I did not realize the originals were going to be permanently replaced with the SE.

Johnboy3434 said:

7.) Sifo-Dyas is a prime example of how the Jedi don't constantly monitor each other. I assume it's because there's supposed to be a sense of trust. The Council can trust a Jedi to answer when he is called upon, and a Jedi can trust the Council not to spy on his activities. Dooku's fall to the Dark Side wasn't known until AotC. His official reasoning for leaving the order was that he became disillusioned after the death of Qui-Gon. Many Jedi have left the order for philosophical reasons that aren't Dark Side-related, and the Order makes no attempt to stop them. One in particular was even shown to come visit the Temple and catch up with old friends on occasion.

But that is all just meaningless EU stuff, isn't it? That stuff gets over written all the time. At one point Boba Fett was a Rorschach-esque self-righteous young man named Jaster Mareel. Now, I bet if you even so much as mentioned Jaster Mareel over at a place like TF.n or SW.com you'd get lynched.

Those stories are just made up by various sci-fi writers who get paid for it, if one day George or the creative forces behind the TV show decide to do something that contradicts those books, then suddenly they become irrelevant.

As for Sifo-Dyas being an example, do we even hear anything about him for him to be an example? I though Sifo-Dyas died before ording the clone army, which means he is not really the one who did it, right? Is there anything about him mentioned in the movie beyond, "Jedi master Syfo-Dyas..." "Sifo-who?" "Sifo- Dy-- Ah, screw it! He isn't even important to the plot."

Yoda Is Your Father said:

For example, The Top 50 worst TV moments (I swear to God I am not making this up).

 

"And the number one worst TV moment in history... drum roll... is... This very show you're watching right now!!!

Jay said:

Despite the strong sales, from a gaming perspective, the Wii is the N64 of this generation. It's old technology with a few standout titles sitting on top of a pile of shovelware.

The N64 was on top as far as graphics went, PS couldn't touch it. But PS could do video and audio that the N64 could never dream of, not thanks to more power but thanks to a CD drive and 650mb of space. Even with PS's beautifully pixelated videos, the N64 still kicked the PS pathetic little ass. Not to mention you had zero load time with the 64, I have no idea how you Sony fans learned to sit through those load times without deciding it just wasn't worth it. Unlike the 64, the Wii has nothing on anyone as far as hardware goes, so I wouldn't really compare the 64 with the Wii.

I guess you can call the Wii shit all you like, but at the end of the day, the Wii is still outselling everyone. The point of a video game system isn't to wow you shitless with its graphics, it is to entertain you. Not saying the Wii necessarily does that better than the others, but a lot of people seem to feel it does.

As for Nintendo having another thing coming... what makes you so sure they will release the same thing over again? Has Nintendo ever done that? They are usually at the top of new ideas, they are the ones constantly being ripped off by everyone else. Next gen you'll see every console copying Nintendo by using motion sensors (Sony has already done this I believe), and Nintendo will be on to making new things for the others to copy. Kind of funny we are having this conversation now, when it was the exact same conversation before the Wii came out. "Nintendo is dead, because they never have new ideas, this gen will be the end for them, their new console will crash just like the Dreamcast." Then along comes the Wii and everyone is like, "Holy shit! Well, okay, next time! Next time they are dead."

Well, we will see. I predict that next time they will put themselves back up there with the big boys, but this requires them learning from their biggest problem first, something they may well not do judging by the current look of things.

That is ashame. I had these images in my head of you guys getting to sit down to a pristine screening of the HS. Guess I didn't miss out on too much. Kind of cool though, I imagine because of this many HS virgins have now taken a step into a larger world... and learned what an awful world it is.

rcb said:

how do you change that? that's pretty out in the open there and hard to get rid of. unless you have an idea.

Now are you beginning to see what a mess the prequels created? Why should an incident like this have happened? The other came first, so the new ones should have been made to fit, but they were not. Which is odd, since they market them as a saga. Had the prequels been a reboot of sorts with their continuity trumping th OTs, then I would have given them a pass on things like this, but as it is, there were suppose to be the back story to the earler films, and they put soooo much love and care in making the PT that it fits perfectly with the OT story... errr... well it should have. Why should the OT have to have been changed in order for the PT to work when the PT simple could have followed the facts that have been set out by the OT. 

Dying of a broken heart was an absolutely ridiculous idea, and as a result, we have a gaping plot hole. Perhaps this could have been explained away well enough had Leia been born first and the one Padme held, but instead George decided to not to worry about it, because Luke being born first was more important.

How do we change that? That is just the thing, I spend hours behind the computer trying to figure out a good way to edit ROTS to fix these problems. I found a few ways, but it never really worked, and it resulted in a very chopped op, incomplete feeling film. I really wanted to like the prequel trilogy I really did. That is what makes me so mad about this. I was willing to look past its flaws and like it, but the flaws are just over whelming! I tried to change them via editing, but in the end I just gave them up and disowned them. I decided they were not worth the effort.

Some people can look past the flaws and ignore them, but I don't feel they are even good enough movies to make such a compromise for.

Now I bet that line will be cut from ROTJ in the next "finished" version of the OT. So rcb, you will probably get your wish.

Octorox said:

C3PX said:

Octorox said:

Why exactly are you re-dubbing Owen and Lama Su? Did you just not like the original voices?

 

New lines.

 

What does he have planned? the phantom editor was able to fix their lines really well without redubbing. Unless you plan to eliminate the whole Sifo Diyas thing. Owens are fine though. Phantom Editor was able to remove the whole "stepbrother" thing.

This is a very different kind of edit from that of the Phantom Editor's. Trooperman really made some very large changes throughout the movie. Sometimes redubbing characters was the best way to change the plot at some points or to cover up wholes left by deleted scenes. 

Your best bet to understanding the spirit of this edit would be to go back and read page one.

Yoda Is Your Father said:

I wanted to join in though!  My Britishness wouldn't let me.

That is funny.

I have lived the much of my life in the states, and I have never heard anything like that. Not that I go to the movies all that often though.

Have you considered TiVo?

heheheh, sorry.

I don't think you'd really be able to get it to mesh that well. There are other background noises going on, and the sound quality is not too great. My recommendation would be removing that scene completely. It is too anti-climatic for the climatic scene it is trying to be.

And the thought of having tight leather slapped onto your body after receiving severe life theatening burns always makes me cringe...

I always imagined the creation of the "more machine than man" version of Vader being something that happened gradually. For some reason I always imagined earlier incarnations of Vader being Anakin with the black suit and cape but no helmet or life support box. I imagined this version of him hunting down Jedi one by one, and when he eventually caught up to his old friend, or his old friend caught up to him, there was an unfortunate incident involving acid/lava which damaged his lungs and burnt his face making the suit necessary. I think getting the suit after less than a whole day as a Sith Lord kind of takes something away.

Fortunately, I believe Adywan has already said Vader will not appear in his Revisited saga, which I definitely think is the right decision. I have thought for a long time that cutting him out and leaving the events as vague as possible would be the best way to get ROTS to mesh with the OT accounts of Anakin and Vader.

Octorox said:

Why exactly are you re-dubbing Owen and Lama Su? Did you just not like the original voices?

New lines.

The 360 also currently enjoys the distinction of being the least expensive current gen console out there. At $199.99 for a bare bones unit, the 360 costs just barely $70 more then the PS2! And with a PS2 at the suggested retail price of $129.99, you still need to buy a memory card (at least another $16) and games, while the $199 Xbox includes a 256mb memory unit and a couple of games.

Not to mention Microsoft will upgrade Xbox arcade owners to a 20gb HD and a three month Xbox Live gold membership for just $30. With that, you basically get a 20gb Xbox for $20 less than a Wii, the formerly least expensive current gen console on the market.

All consoles on the current retail market and their SRPs,

PS2 - $129

Xbox Arcade (no HD + 2 games) - $199

Wii - $249

Xbox (60 GB HD + 2 games) - $299

Xbox (120 GB HD + 2 games) - $399

PS3 (80 GB HD) - $399

PS3 (160 GB HD + 1 game) - $499

Here is how I feel about the Anakin kills younglings bit,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHKCL4jOfRg

Good ol' Robot Chicken.

Alright, I get what you are saying, and I very much agree. Though I feel rather than using Mario, Zelda, and Metroid to sell the Wii, Nintendo is really going fullout on the social party game sort of stuff, which is definitely not going to get somebody to choose a Wii over a 360 or a PS3.

I hope the successor to the Wii will work on being a bit more competitive. I recall reading some statements from Nintendo expressing that the Wii is more of an experimental test system for their next console. Which I hope means they plan to step back into the ring with the big boys for the next round. I have been a huge fan of Nintendo in the past, and I have always rooted for them, but I can honestly say I really have absolutely no desire to get a Wii. That says alot.

So, anybody else play the RE5 Xbox demo yet?

I don't see how it is an example of good story/bad script. That is just bad all the way around. He turns bad in a fraction of a second, he goes from hero to "ah hell, if I am gonna be bad I might as well do it right and slaughter kids, but make the impact less by calling them younglings." That was a horribly dumb part of the story. There was no rational for it, no anything for it, it was nonsensical and pointless. "Go do what must be done" "Yes, master". It is not just the script at fault here. There is nothing badass about killing a bunch of kids. That is the work of a worthless coward, preying on those far weaker than himself, even sicker is preying on those who rely on your for their protection. A much better story would have had Anakin dueling Mace Windu as his first act as a villain. That could have been Palpatine's test of loyalty, rather than killing helpless kids,

"Anakin, in forty seconds three Jedi will come in here to kill me. To make of me just another Sith martyr. Executed without privilege of trial, just because I don't conform to their pathetic Jedi rules! Anakin, you know what must be done, don't you?"

"Yes master."

Door burst open,

"Chancellor Palpatine, you are under arrest! Anakin, get out of the way. Anakin! Anakin? (Anakin slowly turns, and ignites his saber) Whatever he has told you, it has all been lies! He is a Sith Lord! That is their way! Anakin! Don't do this!"

and a brilliant saber battle breaks out on screen, Anakin taking on three Jedi while Palpatine sits behind his desk and watches with glee. He is being beaten and realizes it, finally feeling overwhelmed he truely give into his hatred and anger, in a furry of rage and bursting with force lightning, he cuts down the three Jedi in several rapid strokes of his saber.This scene would also give us the chance to see on screen the real power of the darkside in comparison to the lightside of the force. Something that is talked about in the OT, and seen to an extent with the Emporer's lighting at the end of ROTJ, but seriously underplayed and outright absent in the PT.

As for the Clone Wars beginning in a gladiator arena, that is beyond bad story telling, this is Monty Phython level absurdity. Just try to imagine WWII having begun in the Roman Colosseum. Utterly ridiculous!

Another major failure of the PT that is often cited, is its loss of the black vs. white theme we had from the original. The Empire was absolutely evil, and the Rebels were absolutely good. People like this theme. One reason the Lord of the Rings films were so popular, as unrealistic as it may be, people really like the well defined lines of good vs. evil. This is probably one reason I really liked TPM so much as well, the lines are clearly drawn.

In the PT we have the Jedi, who we always imagined being the good guys turning out to be kind of uptight jerks. We have Obi-Wan who is a bit of a jerk, the nagging and restrictive father figure, who leaves his best friend to die along in agony. And by the time we get to the OT he lies through his nose. And our main hero is saving the day and then accidentally murdering whole villages. An army of Clones is made, who made it? A good guy or a bad guy? Ah, who knows. The Clone Wars are seen as a questionable war. We are not even sure what the separatists are doing that calls for a full scale war against them. There is no black and white in the PT, it is all a bunch of gray. And having Palpatine pull all the strings seemed cool at first, but by the end it got to be a little too much. Here we have one man who single handedly brings the whole galaxy to its knees. Would have liked to have seen him as more of a character who managed to work all things to his advantage, rather than the single omniscient individual calling all the shots and ruling both sides.

Nanner Split said:

or have I just been standing next to a shitty grapevine?

LOL, wouldn't surprised me, either way. If something like that were true, it would be hard to verify. I imagine stuff like that happens in these competitive markets all the time.

On the other hand, there is so much ill feeling toward Microsoft floating around, it is inevitable that people are going to think the worst of them, possibly make stuff like this up, and that others will most certianly believe it.

This also could very well have come from the fact that MS bought out Rare, which resulted in Rare no longer making games for Nintendo.

I agree that the GC and the Wii both suffered from the major problem of lacking good third party games. I think Rare winding up in bed with MS really crippled the GameCube, as Rare was a very loyal third party developer that was willing to put up with making games on the N64, regardless of its being difficult to make game for. Rare stuck with Nintendo and constantly put out decent games, many of them were pretty childish in the early days, until they decided to prove they had teeth with two finest games released for the 64 in the last years of its life, Perfect Dark and Conker's Bad Fur Day. Had they continued to make games for Nintendo instead of being bought out by MS, I think GC would have held up a bit better.

The statement that Nintendo needs to get over Mario, Zelda, and Metroid is kind of an odd one though. I think Skyjedi said the exact same thing on the last page as well. That is pretty much like saying, Sony needs to get over God of War, Final Fantasy, and Grand Theft Auto. That's crazy! Those games sell and are always sure to be great quality games. Why should any company adandon its most lucrative titles. The fact of the matter is, There are more than twice as many GTA games on the PS2 than there were Metroid games on the GC. Since 2000, there have only been two Zelda titles that were not handheld or spinoff mini-games. Include the handheld titles and the mini-games and you're up to a whopping total of six games spanning four systems. From 1986 until present you have a total of ten Metroid games spanning seven systems (five of those, including one mini-game, are for handheld systems). As for Mario games, there are too many spinoffs for me to count them, but since the days of the N64, there has only been one real Mario game per system. I'll gladly defend the spinoffs, because all systems have them, you have tons of Spiro, Crash, and Sonic spinoffs flooding other consoles, and they are just trying to rip off the Mario games, so obviously they are doing something right with Mario.

Since these three titles always sell really well and are much anticipated everytime a new one is announced, I'd say they far from need to get over them. In fact, I'd argue that they need more of these kinds of games. I'm not saying they should be popping out another sequel for these series every year or so, unless they can do something unique with each one (like how unique, and yet familar Mojora's Mask was compared to Ocarina of Time) so that consumers don't feel like they are playing the same game over and over. But they need more real games. Games someone can pick up and play through by themselves, but bringing new and unique gameplay into the picture via the Wiimote. How great would a new Jedi Knight game be on the Wii, using the Wiimote and the new attachment. That would be something older gamers would get into, drive the value of the system up a bit in the eyes of your average gamer (as opposed to the casual gamers who currently hold the majority of the Wii market share). It is really ashame Wii didn't get Resident Evil 5, as we have seen how great that worked with RE4 on the Wii.

Sure, Nintendo is staying afloat just fine with their newfound audience who suck up the mini-games like there is no tomorrow. But they have pretty much lost those who remained loyal to them over the years. Instead of incorporating their new audience into the mix, they have pretty much left their old audience and started over. Not sure how wise of a move that was.

Just got done playing the demo of Resident Evil 5. I can't wait for the whole game. It has the same style and control of Resident Evil 4, which is definitely a good thing. The co-op feature is sure to be pretty awesome too. Graphics are excellent of course, and despite the level from the demo taking place in broad daylight, it still managed to be every bit as creepy as the overcast villiage of Resident Evil 4. 

Some how I don't see guys like Yoda and Mace Windu tacitly keeping it to themselves. They make it very clear that such attatchment is a danger, not something to be played around with or taken lightly. The idea that they would know about it and just let it slide it completely and totally out of character for both of them. I still find it funny we feel the need to stretch things to bizzare degrees just in order to make them make sense.

Even Obi-Wan seems to know be 100%, he just suspects. When he goes to Padme to warn her about Anakin he asks her if the baby is Anakin's. Had he know they were married, or even together, that question would not have made any sense. He suspected it, but didn't know for sure.

vbangle said:

rcb said:

i know i'm jumping ahead a film, but i thought that this might be interesting.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=put+qui+gon+in+return+of+the+jedi&emb=0&aq=f#q=qui-gon%20jinn%20in%20return%20of%20the%20jedi&emb=0

 

there's a second one that just has qui-gon jinn appear. i neglect the mace windu.

I feel ill.

 

That clip was awesome, made me laugh really hard. I like how as soon as Luke turns his back they menacingly appear put of nowhere. It is like the Sixth Sense or something, all these dead Jedi haunting Luke. I really like how ghost Windu whips his lightsaber out first thing, "I'm gonna kill me some mother %$&#in' Ewoks, cause I'm one bad mother %$#er!"

negative1 said:

C3PX said:

Yeah, it's brilliant! If only they could have had some halfway decent actors to pull it off...

 

the problem that will never be solved, is that

nobody can agree what the story should have been like..

 

some claim that the PT isn't as 'epic' as the original trilogy (despite

all the retcons, inconsistencies, and flaws that exist in it th e OT also)..

 

lucas faces a no-win situation, you can't please the old fans, because

it wouldn't 'match' what he wanted for the PT, and of course the people

that like the PT sometimes find the OT clunky, slow, and outdated....

 

you can't have your cake both ways, and eat it to..

 

Arg! This is the type of thing some of you guys can't get past, and it irritates the living crap out of me.

Not everyone had to agree on what the story should have been. It could have been anything, it just had to be good, and it wasn't.

Lucas didn't face a no win situation, he didn't even have to please everyone. He could have done whatever he wanted. They were his movies, he had essentially all the money in the world to throw at it, he could have done anything and gone anywhere with he he wished. He didn't have to please anyone, they could have been pure crap and they still would have topped the box office and made loads of crash... oh wait... ha! That is exactly what happened!

Since George could have taken these things down any road he liked, it is really, truely, terribly, awfully ashame he decided to take it down the road named "mediocrity".

Actually, I really wish George would not have taken to heart the bad criticism that was thrown at TPM. It wasn't the best movie, but it wasn't the worst. Every movie takes some hard hits from some critics, and he was in a position where he really didn't have to care what they thought. I think he changed a lot of his ideas for episode II around after all the bad criticism, and again, changed his ideas for III after all the bad feedback regarding II. Would have liked to have seen what TPM's sequels would have been like, had these, what I assume are criticism encouraged changes, not taken place.

Hmm, I certainly agree with you about the silly little mini-games going wild on the Wii. I think the DS is suffering from that as well. Nintendo kind of disappoints me with this, because their system can do so much more. I would have never bought a DS based on the game library out there, the reason I bought it is because I saw what all it could do with homebrew and how easily and cheap it was to get an R4 in order to run homebrew on it. Now I use the thing for a movie player when I travel, and ebook reader, I use it to play my old classic adventure games via SCUMMVM, I use it to play my SNES and NES and GB games via emulator. It really is a brilliant little device, but to be honest, I wouldn't care a thing about it if it were not for the homebrew. All the games for it I have seen, save for a few, are all those silly mini-game sort of things. It needs more Metroid Prime Hunters and Phantom Hourglasses. It is able to handle these great games perfectly well, why not make more of them?

I can see where guys like bkev might find the Wii gimmicky, but I feel that it is just another step in video game evolution that Nintendo, like usual, is pioneering. A Blu-ray player on PS3, how is that not a gimmick aimed at selling consoles?

???

Am I missing something?

Jay said:

Sorry, have to draw the line somewhere.

Absolutely. Even though a lot of us are adults around here, there are kids around too, I think they stick more to the SW section, but you never know who is wonders in here. Suck to lose some poor kid his internet privilages just because he happened to wonder into the wrong thread while his folks were peering over his shoulder. :O

Gimmick? I don't know. I just can't see it that way. And for a gimmick, it sure it holding strong. Its ability to play classic games from previous consoles and its 100% backwards compatibility with GameCube games, I feel it deserves a lot more credit than many of the doubters give it. Things like the Wii fit are are really great ideas. 

Sure, it is not so much your traditional gamers system, but the audience that it does reach out to, it does a dang good job of reaching out to.

However, it still has some pretty cool stuff for more traditional gamers, try playing a game like RE4 on it, I think the system has a lot of potential that they have not even begun to tap into yet, and unfortunately they may just stick to sports and part type games. 

Actually, I have a friend who actually owns a Wii, and he is yet to buy a single game for it beyond Wii Sports that came with it. It is really ashame, what a waste. If there are more people who think like him and fail to see that it has the ability to do more than just play sports games. Freaken perfect for shooters.