Darth Chaltab said:Dragon Ball GT is an anime series in which Goku, who is now around 50, is magically transformed back into a child and forced to travel the galaxy with his granddaughter or else the world will explode.
Wow, that is one of the most amazing plots I have ever heard. Seriously.
I know pretty much nothing about DB, but have listened to a younger cousin go on about it enough to be able to tell you that Dragonball came first, and is about the main character as a kid trying to collect dragonballs at great peril, I also know enough to say that dragonballs, contrary to popular belief among the non initiate, are not actually dragon's testicles. :)
DragonballZ features the main character all grown up and with a wife and family of his own.
So, Dragonball came first, followed by DragonballZ, followed by DragonballGT.
Sounds like a line of automobiles, doesn't it?
AxiaEuxine said:Lets assume for the sake of argument that there was something I didnt like about Lucas or post 97 Star Wars. If I said that in this forum I could not make a single argument about anything without someone throwing that nebulous thing in my face everytime now could I? Im not gushing.
Sounds ridiculous to me. What are you basing this on exactly?
Back on topic, those blue sabers look quite nice. Good work.
AxiaEuxine said:Yes, I never take anyone or anything at face value.
That is too bad. Sure, you don't want to go through life being gullible and believing absolutely everything you hear, it is just a shame to go through life with the "Extreme Distrust" setting as your default. It is not like we are slick salesmen who just showed up at your front door or shadowy figures you bumped into in an alley after dark.
Anyway, before you expressed just wanting to discuss SW with other fans. My proposal is you do just that. Stop accusing everybody of insane things such as having questionable motives for wanting to OT on DVD, or of never giving the PT a chance, and just start some SW related discussions that interest you. You will find there are others around that will be happy to discuss it with you. If anybody pops in and tries to spoil your conversation, just give them what for.
As it is, the only threads you have started, and the vast majority of your comments, have all been criticizing, judging, and moaning about what a rotten bunch of intolerant, close minded haters we are.
Even in threads where we are discussing things completely unrelated to the SE or PT, and where you clearly had no clue what was being discussed (NPR thread), you felt the need to criticize other posters. Glad you saw fit to retract your comments, but you were obviously seeing negativity where there was none.
I didn't dislike the movie because it was different from the book/radio play. Actually, the DOS game was my introduction to the series, not the plays or the books. From there I got my hands on the radio plays, enjoyed them, and then went out and bought the one volume hardback of the "trilogy".
That was one of the cool things about Adams, I really liked how each retelling of the story was entirely different. That is one of the marks against the recent three phases of the radio series, they were not written by Adams, and so were followed their written counterparts very closely.
As for the impossibility of the Babel Fish puzzle, it isn't impossible. I beat it without a walkthrough. That was one of the best parts of the game, it had me cracking up, and then before too long nearly crying.
Interesting they have graphic java versions of it now. Not even sure how that would work, I am assuming they are just still images?
C3PX said:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... haha... haha... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... I can't breath... hahahaha... phew... he he he... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...
Okay, okay, I'm alright, I -- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...
AxiaEuxine said: I have never laughed at anyone for their opinions in this board, ever! No matter how much I disagreed with them. EVER!
I was just joking around. I do find it interesting that you are so adamant about wanting your opinions seen as facts, i.e. "The prequel are good movies for f***s sakes!" Don't take it so personally, I mean you no harm. I respect that you like the prequels. It is the trying to convince everyone else to like them too, and villanizing them for not, that is absurd and humorous.
AxiaEuxine said: I am not a TFN Fangirl, I dont like those forums becuase its full of kids...I perfer talking with people somewhere around my own age. And Im sorry I got you irked, as Ive said many times before I just want to share my love of what is still a fantastic franchise with someone. All my posts stem from that.
The :) after my "seriously irked" comment indicated I wasn't seriously irked, so no need to apologize. Okay, that talking with people around your own age thing sounds fair enough. I imagine there are other SW forums around with more mature poster though (again, don't think I am trying to get rid of you, I am not! This place just really seems to get your back up. Maybe supplementing it with another less offensive SW forum would better fulfill your SW discussion needs).
AxiaEuxine said: Apparently Im gonna argue with each and every one of you about it.
Exactly! Do you really want to do that? Because I don't think anyone else does. You seem to think that none of us gave the prequels a chance, and that had we been fair to them we would love them as you do. That simply isn't true. I give you my word I gave them a genuine chance, but no matter what I say, you will never believe me simply because I do not like them.
AxiaEuxine said:I submit that my finding value in that which so many others do not is enough evidence of my open mind.
That isn't open mindedness, it is varying tastes. I happen to like my coffee black, no cream or sugar. Would you take me seriously if I decided that everyone who thinks they need to put sugar and cream in their coffee because it was too bitter for them was close minded? Or what would you think of me if I starting shouting out, "Black coffee ISN'T too bitter for f***'s SAKE!!!" every time someone started to put sugar in their coffee? It isn't too bitter for me, but not everyone shares my tastes. It is no merit to my open mindedness that I like something many others do not.
The cold hard facts of the matter are, that many others on these forums love the PT just as much as you do. An open mind might have seen that by now. Just a thought.
AxiaEuxine said: I have not looked at any non-SW thread with any appreciable amount of time. Im here for SW woot!
Well, then you'll have to take my word for it. There is a lot of preservation work that goes on here non-SW related. Evidence that many of us take a great interest in preserving obscure and hard to find works, as well as works deemed unnecessary to preserve by those who own the rights to them.
C3PX said:
It saddens me to see someone say that a classic film that has been severely altered, was not altered enough to their liking. You call us "ex-Star Wars fans", sounds to me like you were never one to begin with.
AxiaEuxine said: Never one to begin with? You couldnt say anything more offensive to me personally if you tried. The ex-Star Wars fans remark on my part was catty I will give you that. I apologise. I just see (for the most part) older SW fans not giving the newer stuff any chance. Youll watch it but it seems to me that you've already made up your minds to hate it...Let me put it this way to you. Do you watch a new clone wars episode and say "Yeah more Star Wars!" or do you say :I hope this one doesnt suck"?
No reason you should find that so offensive, it wasn't meant to be. You seem to put down the OT a lot, and you even said that it wasn't altered enough for your liking. You just don't come off sounding like someone who cares much for it. Here is another example of how you don't give us a chance, how you immediately assume none of us ever gave it a chance. I don't watch Clone Wars each week, because I don't like it. I could care less if it sucks or not. The PT however, I gave plenty of a chance, and as much as I really wanted to like it. I don't.
I am not full of bullshit, I am not using this as an excuse not to like the PT or the SE for some diabolical reasons.
I care about the OT being preserved just as I care about all great works being preserved. I am sure someone like you may feel that a work like The Odyssey could use some good updating. After all, it is a rather archaic work.
AxiaEuxine said: Now lets not get petty.
Sigh. Missed my point obviously. Oh well, no big.
AxiaEuxine said: I wasnt belittinging its cultural signifigance. I agree with you . I doubted the sincerity of people saying that was one of the reasons they wanted the unaltered trilogy.
Why are you so distrusting? What reason do you have for not taking us at our word? Why do you want to feel like you know more about us than we know about ourselves? Why do you doubt our sincerity in wanting the unaltered trilogy for that reason? What other reasons would we have? Do you approach everything in life with such a high degree of distrust and doubt?
Nanner Split said:That's too bad, because the audio dramas of "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" is some of the funniest stuff ever recorded, and are my personal favorite version of the stories (and before you ask, the radio dramas actually came first, even before the books).
Still, not for everyone, I suppose.
Very true! For anyone who is a fan of quirky humor, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is definitely worth tracking down.
The fairly recent HhGttG movie was rather unfortunate, introduced millions of newcomers to the series, then turned them off of it for good.
As Nanner said, the first two phases (think seasons) of the radio series came first. Then they were both adapted into a book, and about everyother form of media you can think of (TV series, comics, a video game, towels, etc.). Three other books were written in the series, and just a few years ago they each received a radio adaption, which, while not near as good as the originals, are pretty cool. They too are worth a little effort to get you hands on.
Also, for anyone who doesn't mind archaic videogames, the H2G2 text-based video game from the early nineteen eighties is a lot of fun. It takes a little bit of effort to get into, especially if you didn't grow up with pure text adventure games, but it really is a lot of fun, and was written by Douglas Adams himself. I bet you'd like it Nanner. It is easy to find on the net these days, and if you have troubel getting into it, you can always use a walk through to get you through the first few screens to get a feel for the game. Though it is very rewarding to figure out the puzzles on your own.
TheBoost said:
I think I tend to agree that the PT hate is a viscous cycle. It seems to me that more people didn't totally hate the PT until a while after it came out. Partly this could be personal reflection, as the "OHMYGOD ITS STARWARS!" vibe wore off, and part of it might be the cycle of internet bitching honing disapointment of the films into a bitter dagger of snark filled hate.
I feel it seems some people hate the PT because it is the "in" thing that all the cool kids are doing. I feel this way because I could have sworn there was a time when I was a bit of an outcast among my circle of friends who like SW, because I didn't enjoy AOTC at all, while they thought it was a million times better than TPM. When I'd say it TPM was a lot better, they'd call me nuts. Now it really seems most of them tend to agree with me that AOTC is the weakest of the PT.
The question is, is this change of opinion a shift to follow the more popular views and be in the "in" crowd? Or can it be attributed to AOTC not holding up well over multiple viewings?
Personally, I'd give my friends and people like them the benefit of the doubt and go with the "not holding up well over multiple viewings" explaination. I think there was also a big movement from, "Wow, ROTS was downright amazing!" to "Well, at least it was a little better than AOTC..." for the same reason.
DarkFather said:There's clearly obstacles in your life which you feel powerless to express your disdain for, so your only outlet is being negatively opinionated to the point of obnoxiousness on internet forums.
Superherohype would be a great place for you. Here, however, among the level-minded, you will be branded an outcast and undoubtedly ostracized in the end.
You still have a chance to salvage your reputation. There's time, though very little.
Vaderisnothayden said:Really, I'd look in the mirror. I'm not the person going around tossing out vicious unprovoked personal attacks on the web. Why do you feel the need to dish out vicious attacks? Is something bad going on in your life, causing you to lash out at perfect strangers? Take a deep breath. All I did on this thread was make some mild criticial statements. I even defended something you put down. And as for my posting elsewhere on this forum, well, I'm hardly the only person here who dislikes the PT and the SE. If you're so bothered by my behavior that you feel the need to lash out at me, then perhaps it's something within you that causes you to be so bothered? I don't know. I'm just wondering, because your way out personal attack coming out of the blue is a surprise to me. I hope my wondering doesn't offend you, but you have to understand that wondering like that comes naturally in reaction to such bizarre blasts of sudden hostility.
Understand this, though, I don't come here to get into fights with people, so I won't be drawn into a drawn-out argument with you. I saw you pick a fight with another poster on one of the other threads yesterday. It wasn't a pleasant sight. I don't want to get into something like that or worse. So if you continue to post in a hostile manner, I will just ignore your posts.
Whoa, this sort of stuff is not needed. We can all disagree sometimes. It is nothing personal. I for one have not seen Vaderisnohayden displaying any more "obnoxiousness" in his opinions than many of our most active members.
We do have a tendancy to derail threads with negativity around here, and that is a shame. It is a bad habit a few of us have, myself included. For example, not every PT related thread needs someone to pipe up and express how the prequels are the shittiest pieces of shit anyone in Hollywood has ever shat out, though this usually tends to be the case. When relatively new members see long standing members doing this, I can imagine it being very natural for them to follow suit.
I loved the original show as a kid. Ultimately, I like it better than the re-imagined series. They are both so different though, I have a hard time pitting one against the other. I used to have this awesome 12 inch Cylon figure who used to have fights with my 12 inch Darth Vader figure. Vader was cool, but my Cylon's eye and gun lit up, which made my Vader seem quite pathetic in comparison. Had I not seen some of the old series as a kid, I might not have liked it much. I still would have recommended giving it a shot past the first four episodes though. The pilot alone spans the first three episodes, and those were hardly the best the show had to offer. Once the show gets out of the first story arc and reaches its more serialized storytelling format, you might like it more. Or not.
That said, a new movie based off the old series... well, the term dead horse comes to mind. How many reboot/reimaginings/whatevers do you need? The old series was taken off air because it cost too much to make, then the more budget sensitive but yet overly lame Galactica 1980 took over and really drove the whole thing into the ground. The continuation of the original series Richard Hatch had in mind would have been cool, but at this point after the 2003 series, it just sounds like a bad idea to me. Especially with Caprica entering the mix.
AxiaEuxine said:And the Prequels ARE good movies FOR FUCK'S SAKE!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... haha... haha... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... I can't breath... hahahaha... phew... he he he... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...
Okay, okay, I'm alright, I -- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...
Phew! Okay, first off, Axia, you really seem to do a whole lot posting and very little reading of other's posts. In most threads you seem to be having an entirely different conversation than everyone else is having. Like the person who walks into a room and hears just a few words of a conversation that has been going on for a while, and quickly assumes they know what the conversation is about and immediately shoots their mouth off with a bunch of unrelated nonsense. In real life, a good general rule before joining a pre-existing conversation is to listen for at least five to ten minutes before throwing in your two-cents. To adapt this to the world of forums, I'd say reading the last five to ten posts would be prudent. Or at the very least be sure you have a grasp on the conversation at hand. Seems regardless of what we actually post, you have each and everyone of us pegged as a bunch of hateful jerks out to destroy all that is good and lovely in the world by disliking the PT and the SE.
We get that you like the PT, that is great, you are not alone here. We respect the fact that you like the films, that is great. I myself have said on many occasions that I like The Phantom Menace well enough. By throwing virtual fits everytime someone mentions the prequels sucking, and trying to prove how much worse the OT was than the PT, you are not accomplishing anything but making yourself seem like a typical TF.N fangirl. If all you really want to do is discuss SW with like minded fans, I have to wonder why you are here? You'd fit in quite well there, not to say you are not welcome here, because you certainly are. It is just that, well, if there is anything I find more annoying than complaining, it is complaining about complaining. And here you have me complaining about complaining about complaining, and that really gets me irked :)
Seriously, lighten up. Some people don't like the PT. What are you going to do about?
On a final note, some of us really do care about history and art, and the preservation of them. If you'd really read this forum with an open mind you'd see that. It isn't only SW that we have preserved here, but many other things. Take a look in the preservation section sometime. It saddens me to see someone say that a classic film that has been severely altered, was not altered enough to their liking. You call us "ex-Star Wars fans", sounds to me like you were never one to begin with. I am not full of bullshit, I am not using this as an excuse not to like the PT or the SE for some diabolical reasons.
I care about the OT being preserved just as I care about all great works being preserved. I am sure someone like you may feel that a work like The Odyssey could use some good updating. After all, it is a rather archaic work. Maybe it could use a more modern setting, perhaps it could benefit from some editing, removal of some pointless plotlines, some embellishments and reworkings of some bits to make it less boring. A lot of people could careless about a work like The Odyssey, and feel it has no cultural relevance today. To me and many others it has a lot of cultural relevance. Abridgments and translations of The Odyssey exist, but I still prefer to take the extra effort it takes to read the thing in the original Greek.
It may sound silly to compare SW to The Odyssey, but as much as some people will try to argue that SW is not culturally significant, or that it is hardly a classic, that it was just a passing pop-cultural fad, etc. They have a very poor understanding of "classic" and "culturally significant". The literary critic Northrop Frye put it best when he defined a classic as "a work that refuses to go away". Those seven words absolutely define the OT's success over the past thirty years. It is most certainly a classic, hands down, no question. As for culturally significant? Hell, it would be impossible to count all the times SW has been referenced in other movies and TV shows. A popular modern TV show like LOST, for example, is so packed full of SW references, I have a hard time imagining what it would be like for someone who has never seen the OT. LOST is not the first show, nor will it be the last, to have countless SW references and in jokes scattered throughout its episodes.
If that isn't culturally significant, I don't know what is. SW holds more cultural significance for us today than most of those old classics that have been held in such high regard for so many decades.
Sounds like you are asking all the wrong people.
I for one, have never been asked by you for anything. Yet I suppose I'd fall into the umbrella category of "everyone" who is so selfish and/or greedy". Be careful before pissing on everyone, you might be burning your bridges.
One problem is a lot of the guys who were big into edits have long since left. Throughout my time here I have been met with a lot of generousity, and I have always had very little to trade, and I am not a "super editor" like ADM of FF.
Another problem is, hardly anyone believes in PIFs anymore, because they always broke down pretty quickly and the same generous people were stuck with being generous all the time. It is nice to be generous, but I can see some of these guys giving up on PIF after realizing how much of their personal money they are throwing away to people not willing to do the same for someone else. Some people have lifted a finger so many times before, they are done lifting fingers.
And finally, another issue is that it is just easier for most people to download this stuff and burn it on their own. I doubt there are even enough people still around interested in getting this stuff by mail to get a PIF going.
Also I am pretty sure when Ady's edit first came out, I read quite a lot of talk about PIF chains in his thread, so some people were doing it.
So, what are you looking for exactly? Just Ady's SW: Revisited?
Right, all that you wrote is just fine, but that is why I said "Well, there is your problem right there", you don't like radio dramas. No matter how well done they are, you wouldn't like them. Not even sure why you bothered to listen to them. I can't stand most hard rock, grates on my nerves, I find listening to is far from enjoyable. That said, I am not going to go out reviewing hard rock and death metal albums, and saying what is and isn't good in regards to these types of music, because no matter how good they are, I am not going to like them. Like you said, these radio dramas are not for you.
Daley did not, nor did he need to, demonstrate what could be done in the format, because it is a tried and true format, it has been around for a very long time. Daley did a good job of adapting it to this format, but he didn't do anything new. It had all been done before. Styles of acting and story telling are different in radio than they are in television or movies, things are just done differently.
Vaderisnothayden said:C3PX said:Again, might as well watch the movie with your eyes closed. Absolutely pointless.
Well I never saw any particular point to the radio dramas in the first place.
Well, there is your problem right there.
Well, you just answered your own question.
Because we hate them, we like to wonder what it would have been like had they been good.
And you assumption on PT edits is way off. If anything, the fact that so much time and effort has been put into PT edits shows that some of us are very determined to like these films to some extent. If it was really such a hate and not give them a chance sort of relationship, you wouldn't expect someone to sit down and dedicate hours of their lives to trying to make it a better movie. Not sure what edits you saw, I am sure some are jarring hack and slash jobs, because most fanedits and faneditors are jokes and don't know what they are doing. However, some of the guys out there are pretty good, and have really given it a good effort.
Haven't really seen any OT edits that try to make them better movies, haven't seen any OT edits at all, other than Adywan's. Do they really exist? Can't imagine what anyone would change.
In all honesty, would you really want to see a Del Toro episode one? Sure it would be fascinating I am sure, but would you really want to see his unique style make its way in to one sixth of a mainstream series such as SW?
Sometimes you love two different things for what they are, but it wouldn't be wise to mix them.
Hunter6 said:Finally, A Film-Maker speaks out about and attack all the Re-Made,Re-boot,Re-**** and so on.
------------- ------------- -------------
From
http://fridaythe13thfilms.com/blog/stephen-romano-sounds-off-on-remakes-including-friday-the-13th/
and
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=26429762&blogID=470629946
From screenwriter Stephen Romano (Incident On And Off A Mountain Road):
It's OFFICIAL. Everything you love has been destroyed.
This is a distress call from the Planet Earth. The REAL planet Earth. The one that made sense when I was growing up. Not the one we’re living on now. I don’t know how the fuck it happened, but the Earth I used to know has been DESTROYED. Everything I love is gone . . . and all that remains is . . . well, I don’t know what it is, but I hate it and I want it to stop.More at:
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=26429762&blogID=470629946
Yeah, I have felt that way in the past. About a year ago, those sentiments summed up my feelings quite well. But now reality has set in, and I realize, who really cares? The popular things we grew up with are all being remade. Everything that was special is being sucked out of them. It is to be expected. These knew knockoffs are all like pyrite to the gold we grew up with. But as long as their is money to be made, this is going to happen. At least the originals of most things are still around. If I feel the need to revisit past shows, movies, comics books, or video games I grew up with, modern technology allows me to do so quick and easily.
This feeling is the symtom of having grown up with anything, I suppose. These are the feelings I got when I visited the town I grew up in a while back and discovered the giant old tree me and my friends used to hang out at had been torn down, and the surrounding fields had been zoned into a new subdivision, the ditches we used to spend so much time hiding in had all be filled in, as was the pond we used to swim in. The once great world we used to escape to with our bows and arrows and BB guns was another borning neighborhood with grassy lawns, swingsets, and white picket fences. This exotic planet, this deserted island, this piece of a forgotten forest, this small amount of real estate on the moon of Endor, this place me and my pals used to lose ourselves in everyday after school, was gone forever. All that is left of it is own memories. That sucks. It pisses me off. I want to go back to that place, but I never can. Why? Because someone could make money buy selling that land and allowing a new subdivision to be placed on that spot. And who can blame them? It is reality, it is the way the world works. They can't just put this section of land on hold because a few kids have fond memories of it and can't allow it to be damaged for nastolgic reasons. Same goes for the subject at hand.
I get the same sort of feeling when I realize that Star Wars is no longer Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi, but a million other things that kids are enjoying just as much as I loved those films as a kid. The video games I grew up with as a kid and always lost myself in are now considered boring and lame to most kids. The cartoons I grew up with are not fit for them either, and must all be remade, with new actors, art styles, and story lines. The peope who own the rights to those things can't be expected to sit back and let them disappear into obscurity when there is money to be made.
Someday the kids enjoying these remakes, expansions, and poorly done "re-imaginings" of the things we loved as kids, will grow up and go through the same thing we are going through. The world will continue to spin, and ideas will continue to be recycled. Every now and then something original and new will come along, and it will be really great for a while, then it too will go through revisions, knock-offs, remakes and re-imaginings. So it goes.
SilverWook said:I was bummed we didn't get to see much of that forest in Episode III. ;)
I know. Huge let down! ROTS even abandoned the traditional view of the planet we've grown used to, with its densely populated trees shooting miles into the air, and the huts and platforms built at the tops of the trees, far above the dark and dangerous swamps located in the depths.
Instead, we pretty much get a swampy planet, with large clearings, and clusteres of some rather short trees. And it is such a blurry CG mess, none of it really sticks in your mind or makes an impression. As far as memorablity and interestingness in the depiction of the Wookie homeworld, The Holiday Special beats the snot out of poor ridiculous ROTS.
A new director would have been the difference between night and day. It was originally GL's plan to have someone else direct each movie, then he decided, being the kick-ass greatest director of all time that he is, to do them all himself. Sigh. Most unfortunate.
The PT was in serious need of someone, anyone, taking a few steps back, looking at the larger picture and saying, "I've got a bad feeling about this..." and making adjustments so as to invoke good feelings. Unfortunately, George was unable to do this, and obviously none of his creative team had the balls to tell him that the masterpiece he was painting looked like a kid's drawing scribbled in crayon.
An outside director was exactly what these films needed. Too much control was in the hands of a single mind, and single set of eyes.
Again, might as well watch the movie with your eyes closed. Absolutely pointless.
I held off on watching past the first few episodes of season four up until right before 4.5 started. So it doesn't feel that way to me. Though I can imagine what you mean, considering the annoyingly large gap between 4.0 and 4.5. BSG is the kind of series that would be best watched one episode after another, no gaps.
The Leia torture scene is classic. If your mind is in the wrong place, it can sound pretty dirty :O
I have said this on these boards before, as urking is Vader voice is to many, I love that it is so different from the movies. Really has that classic old sci-fi serial villan kind of sound to it. The biggest complaints I hear from people about these is that they are not enough like the movies, Han sounds nothing like Harrison Ford, Leia sounds nothing like Carrie Fisher, Vader sounds nothing like J.E.J. But that is what I like about it. They are not the movies and they don't try to be.
If these were exactly like the movies, I wouldn't care a thing about them. Hell, might as well rip the audio from the movies and put it on your ipod. Boring stuff.
Great thing about this is that it lives on its own, independant from everything else SW. Completely disconnected from all the baggaged that followed in the years since 1977.
SilverWook said:The whole slaver rescue angle comes from 1978's "The Wookiee Storybook" which marks the first time Chewie's family made it into print.
Ah, I have had that book since I was very young, haven't read it in years, forgot it mentioned the slavers. That is where I learned of the slave thing as a child.
I can't say definitively where it came from, but I knew about it for as long as I can remember. I used to act out Han rescuing Chewie from slavers with my Kenner action figures when I was a kid, (the slavers consisted of a couple of Jawas, a Tusken Raider, a Rodian, Snaggletooth, three Stormtroopers, a Deathstar Droid, and Walrusman, and of course the whole thing was masterminded by none other than Darth Vader with his insanely short telescoping lightsaber that was built right into his arm. Damn, I miss those days.) So it is definitely Pre-90's EU. Since my only non-movie exposure of SW as a kid was the comic books, I am betting that I got it from them.
I think the 'noble savage' is what GL was aiming for with Chewie. I think he was suppose to be to Han what Tonto was to the Lone Ranger. If you are old enough to remember The Lone Ranger, you might remember that Tonto followed The Lone Ranger around after he saved his life. I don't think there was a life debt in Tonto's case, it is simple what he chose to do. Tonto was always depicted as intelligent and an equal to the Lone Ranger, and that is always sort of the relationship I have seen between Han and Chewie.
I think I do recall some EU books talking about how even Chewie's descendants are obligated to protect Han with their lives (or maybe it was that Chewie was obligated to protect Han's decendants). That is a pretty crappy setup. Doesn't really make Han much better than the slavers he is suppose to have recued him from.
I also never liked the Chewbacca family situation that originated from the Holiday Special, where Chewie leaves his family to go follow Han around the galaxy and only comes to visit once a year or so. This makes him out to be a pretty lousy husband and father, and I always prefered to see him as a rather upright and honorable kind of guy (well, other than the whole smuggler/criminal thing).
AxiaEuxine said:I for one think theyve ruined the Bond franchise with the last two movies. Are they decent spy movies? Sure but they arent Bond movies. I still enjoy the movies that came before though. Im not going to let the fact that holloywood needed to gut the franchise of any Bond like things to make ordinary spy movies that appealed to a wider audience stop me from enjoying Goldeneye and any other Bond movie.
As silly as the older films were sometimes, I have always loved them. A few stinkers, but most of them were a lot of fun. Didn't care a whole lot for the latest movie (it felt on par with the Die Another Day IMHO, which is not a good thing), but the latest adaption of Casino Royale is by far the Bond film that remains truest to its source material. I just always find it funny when people talk about it being de-Bond-ified in order to appeal to the masses, when in actuality it took a huge step back toward its roots.
But you are exactly right, it is silly to let bad sequels, prequels, and reboots to ruin the enjoyment of previous material that you already found enjoyable