Burbin

This is mostly just an issue with TROS since there was never any indication in the previous films that Leia had been trained as a Jedi, other than the space walk in TLJ and even that’s a stretch.

It would be an interesting angle if Leia’s decision was portrayed as a failure, but this is supposed to be a hopeful scene, “Leia failed the galaxy and doomed us all by choosing a career in politics” doesn’t fit a scene that is supposed to restore Rey’s spirit. To be fair neither does a premonition of death but that’s why we removed that bit.

I think the big issue with Leia choosing politics over being a Jedi is that it comes off as a terribly foolish decision. In the end, diplomacy failed; by the time we meet her in TFA she’s leading an underground militia, and her sole hope lies on Luke’s return to help in the fight. You’d think she would be beating herself up for quitting her training all those years ago, mastery over the Force would’ve been a lot more helpful against the First Order than her diplomatic skills. Moreover, if she had completed her training, she could’ve taught her son herself instead of sending him away, thus preventing the fall of Luke’s temple and even the fall of Ben Solo.

The only reasonable way Leia can be justified in not becoming a Jedi is if she had to, not just because she felt like it. This is what the original does, but in a really dumb way, that’s why we landed on simply having her sense that she was not meant to go down that path. Maybe with this new A.I. we can generate a line that helps this come across better, but I still think this is the idea we need to lean on.

RogueLeader said:

And speaking of tests, I messed around with Poe’s lines a little bit more and came up with a different variation. The AI model was struggling with getting Poe to say “dreadnought cannons”, and the deliveries I managed to get still sound awkward to me. So, I did a version where he says, “and each ship has been upgraded with fleet-killing weapons”. Poe calls the dreadnought a “fleet-killer” due to its cannons in TLJ, and uses the phrase planet-killing in this film. That makes it feel more like something Poe would actually say, and that term gives the audience a clear indication of their power-level. These aren’t planet-killing weapons, but they can destroy any planetary fleet that opposes them.

I still think he should refer to the weapons as “cannons” since that’s what they’re called on the later scenes, the first time they’re referenced in this edit is when Rose says “we think hitting the cannons might ignite the main reactors”, It’d be more effective if these “cannons” are metioned earlier.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Luke sounds absolutely AMAZING. Here is a way we can reintegrate Leia having known about Rey’s struggle with the dark side:
https://youtu.be/70vGJBB7YMQ?si=cK7ZOptoAtGYwtbD

I think this Luke A.I will be really helpful for the Nobody cut, but I agree with Hal that it’s better to leave out the whole “Leia knew (something)” dialogue from the Rey Palpatine cut, trying to use it without her straight up knowing Rey was a Palpatine feels very obtuse.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

And here is a line to give Leia some closure with the Jedi that makes sense in canon:
https://youtu.be/QM-xl2GirK8?si=QiRJpNAiBfeDP8-R
I’m of the opinion that Leia needs to have a very specific reason for abandoning her Jedi path in order for it to be satisfying.

I don’t think Leia deciding to go into politics is a satisfying reason for abandoning her Jedi path on the last night of her training. Sensing that she was not meant to be a Jedi might leave things ambiguous, but the Jedi have always been all about feelings and premonitions, and not following in Luke’s footsteps did lead her down a path that served the galaxy in other ways, perhaps that was the will of the Force. Yes it’s ambiguous but I don’t think there can be a better explanation for Leia not being a Jedi in VII & VIII but suddenly being Rey’s master in IX.

Hal 9000 said:

Fair points, and I tried to minimize throwing in AI stuff that didn’t address existing problems. Leia’s lack of on-point dialogue being one of them, sorta.

What do you think of Poe’s AI lines in the briefing? I hope that to an unsuspecting viewer it would read as ADR that maybe wasn’t a dead match. Like an older movie. Like Star Wars even. Ultimately it serves a more important plot issue we created. And after a while it’s hard for me to guess how it’ll sound to someone who wasn’t agonizing over it in a NLE.

I agree with others that the delivery is a bit off, the A.I voice sounds a bit softer and higher pitched, though like you say the value it serves of reframing the Sith Fleet and introducing the underbelly cannons makes it a worthwile tradeoff. It’d be nice if it could be improved though, and RogueLeader’s tests are looking promising. His new Poe lines sound a lot closer to the original delivery.

Glad to see V3 has released. I gotta say the A.I. voices do feel noticeable to me, though I’ve looked at these scenes way more than most, I’m sure the average viewer wouldn’t pick up on it, and the Kylo lines do sound smoother than the previous sentence mixing.

The one A.I. voice addition I’m not so sure about is Leia. I thought trimming out that whole “it’s what you would do” interaction was a much smarter change, and giving Rey back the lightsaber without a word feels more emotional and personal, Rey understands what she’s saying through her actions alone. It’s odd and unnecessary to have her spell things out from off-screen, and it’s the kind of dialogue we would remove if it was originally in the movie.

I wouldn’t say he’s a “failed clone”, the cloning process was successful, it just can’t contain the Sith spirit. How about “failing clone” instead, to highlight his decaying state, sounds better than “rotting” but conveys the same idea.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Fair enough. My thinking was that she was responding to Poe’s desire to shoot the snake. As in, she’s clarifying why he shouldn’t shoot it.

Still, I think it feels too much like random exposition, like, why would Finn or Poe care that she learned something from the ancient Jedi texts? They never show much interest in the intricacies of her training. Just seems like something that is solely directed at the audience.

From the beginning, I wasn’t entirely sure why Rey didn’t tell Finn or Poe anything at all. Even something as simple as: “Hold this. I’ve got an idea.”

Rey is overall very distant in this movie, she’s constantly taking actions without bothering to explain things to anyone. It’s part of her struggle in the film. And in this case I think giving the saber to Finn and slowly approaching the serpent makes it pretty clear she’s going to try doing something, she doesn’t need to say “I’m going to try doing something”.

I don’t really feel that line works, it comes off as clunky exposition, why would she feel the need to explain what she’s doing at that moment? And more importantly, they’re trying to stay quiet and make no sudden moves, so it makes no sense for her to randomly yell about what she’s about to do, that would probably startle the beast and make it attack.

I feel it’s pretty obvious she learned that from studying the Jedi texts, it’s all she’s been doing in between the movies, she doesn’t really need to say it, and if she does she definitely shouldn’t say it at that moment.

How about “the ships have been modified”, or “each ship has been modified with Dreadnought-tier laser cannons”. I’m pretty sure the Resistance was already outgunned against the First Order so that’s not saying much.

Yeah, the Resistance’s whole plan hinges on the fact that hitting the cannons ignites the SD’s main reactors and brings the whole ship down, it’s the only reason they believe they have a shot. But in the current cut of Ascendant the cannons come out of nowhere on the Resistance briefing, it’d be better if they’re set up earlier.

Hal 9000 said:

That URL links you to a folder, which contains a test clip as well as the footage that needs to be doctored to fit the new line. If anyone with the ability to do so could make it work, I think we will have gotten away with this change pretty effectively.

I gave it a shot: https://streamable.com/vch7w3

Jar Jar Bricks said:

As for the line, what about: “The fleet has heavily modified weapon systems”.

Yeah, though instead of “weapon systems”, maybe just “super cannons” or “superlaser cannons” or “superlaser helix cannons”, just to make it clear he’s talking about the big gun at the bottom. Or maybe we could just call them “Dreadnought-level laser cannons” so it’s immediately clear it’s a big deal.

Wouldn’t make sense to throw that in there since we already have the previous lines speculating on Palpatine, and the main info being dumped in that moment is about the fleet. Maybe we could throw in a line about the axial cannons instead? since they become important in the final battle and there’s very little attention drawn to them beforehand.

That’s sounding a lot closer to the original lines, though the delivery on the new line still sounds a bit more like a narration. Also I think “old Empire” would make more sense instead of “old war”.

Here’s the whole thing:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1A_mvz-xIZagclVTV6wGvM5jTCtwc_OGK/view?usp=sharing
I didn’t alter the shots where the blade is being hit by Palpatine’s lightning, the purple blade made it look kinda dull, and since the sabre is supposed to be overcharged by lightning I think the more intense pink/violet shade kinda works better, I did make it so that it switches right as it gets hit, and then it fades back to purple at the end. What do you guys think?
Here’s the fully purple version for comparison https://streamable.com/ydt4xn

Here’s my attempt to purplefy Leia’s saber on Exegol:
https://streamable.com/gxpmad

Jar Jar Bricks said:

I think we’re overcomplicating things with all this “destiny” and “fate” mumbo-jumbo.

“Leia told me she sensed a different calling than a Jedi’s.”

It’s short, simple, and to the point. She had more motivation to focus her efforts on being a mother and political activist.

The thing is, that line ties up with the next one, where someone would come and finish her Jedi journey. I think the implication should be that she had to let go of that path, not that she just felt like doing politics over religion. At the end of her Jedi training she sensed that was not the path she was meant to take. It’s easy then for the audience to put two and two together, in that she simply went back to what she was good at, as she says in TFA. Her letting go of the Jedi mantle then comes as a result of her training and being in tune with the Force, and NOT as a rejection of it.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

As for the line “Leia told me she had sensed the end of her Jedi path”, I’m personally not a big fan of it. I think Leia picks up her Jedi path again in TROS by training Rey and reaching out to Ben. It also is vague and kinda frustrating.

How about something simple like: "Leia told me she sensed her fate lied down a different path…” it gets the point across better of why she didn’t continue as a Jedi, and leaves the door open for her to pick it back up to train Rey. Plus it’s similar to what Ben told Luke before they parted ways, and as you say, it’s still sad for her to tell Luke she couldn’t follow in his footsteps.

I don’t think it works to reveal Leia knew of the vision, but nothing else. Her scenes with Rey at the beginning already hint that she could sense something was wrong with her so it’s not really a big surprise, and it’s got little to do with the big reveal about her being Palpatine’s granddaughter. It feels kinda muddled to go from talking about her bloodline to talking about the vision, and then back to bloodline. Yes the vision is related to her bloodline, but when Luke says “because you’re a Palpatine” he shifts the focus of the conversation, so it’s kinda awkward for him to go “You’re a Palpatine, and Leia also knew…”, “What? that I was a Palpatine?!”, “Oh no, she had no idea about that, she knew about the visions though.”

Also, in the movie Rey only has the one vision of the throne, she tells Finn “I had a vision…” not “I’ve been having visions”, and she tells Luke “I saw myself on the dark throne”, no “I’ve been seeing myself…” etc. so it wouldn’t make much sense to imply Leia still trained Rey despite a vision she had yesterday. Unless she’s been having visions about other, unrelated stuff that we never hear of.

Here’s what I’ve got so far:
https://streamable.com/gr5j58

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Well, it would certainly be better than a Fortnite speech lol

I dunno, I really liked how Palpatine’s broadcast was implemented. I like that we’re “shown” the message from the FO spy, and the Resistance is shown proof of Palpatine’s return, rather than just being told. Hearing the Emperor’s voice makes their reaction more believable, trying to rationalize what they just heard, rather than immediately believing some random intel from an unknown spy. Switching the “somehow Palps returned” line over to Leia doesn’t make it any better imo.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Could you put that on her eyes in her vision toward the beginning of the film? Where she’s sitting on the throne?

https://streamable.com/jbcruq

Sith Eyes v2
https://streamable.com/3ddbvs

Yeah it was a pretty rough attempt at Sith eyes I put together quickly to see what I could do, kept it subtle to hide the roughness. I always thought it’d be a neat change, and I’m sure fans of Starlight would appreciate it. I’d be willing to give it a real try if there’s a chance of a V3, I’m just wondering what other changes might be wanted and feasible for an update.

Another thing I’d be willing to try and fix is Leia’s saber on Exegol, which to me has always seemed too pink (from the grey Exegol LUT I’m assuming). I shared Ascendant with some friends a while back and one of them asked if Leia’s saber was supposed to be pink, so I know I’m not alone on that one.

I’d also might give the Kijimi graffiti a shot if anyone wants to ressurrect that old idea.

Hey Hal, would you be up for a V3?
https://streamable.com/0gqec6

I think the best aproach would be to totally excise the “mistery” music from the establishing shot, letting the love music linger a bit further.