BmB

I'm sorry but if all you are going to do is try and put me down I'd prefer if you didn't post. I'm trying to have a debate on this, and you're contributing nothing.

Don't make it so hard and be a little more accepting of conflicting views will you? Not to try and be offensive or anything, but most of you are just patting ady on the back, ady is left to defend his point of view on his own and a few others are vaguely chipping in on the controversy apparently in fear of the mindless pat-on-back horde jumping to the defense of anything that isn't flat out praise.

I like what he's doing, most of it is a massive improvement from what I've seen so far.

But some things are just going overboard, ultimately the mass of small (but impressive) fixes are outweighed by messing with the integrity of the film for no other reason than to be different. Or worse, as I have come to suspect now, simply misinterpreting the intent. So far this is the only such point of contention I have noticed, which is a damn shame.

adywan said:

So your logic is that it shouldn't be a difficult escape because the rebels have such a powerful weapon to back them up and that the transport should escape as easily as it does originally? So why even bother to provide two X-wings as escorts if it should be so easy? And why later on in the battle is Rieekan so worried that they can't protect two transports at a time? They got away so easily the first time and surely the ion cannon can just blast any stardestroyer in their path.

Exactly. That's the enjoyable part, a little sliver of triumph in the middle of being walked right over. The battle as a whole is full of these, like when Luke blows up an AT-AT or when that other one is famously restricted by that cable. There's no half victory in those either, but as soon as the rebels had their little spotlight the empire is back to remind you that they're still there and they're still going to walk right over some rebel asses.

And I already said they are doing nothing because the transport is grossly out of range, nowhere in the OT is even a Star Destroyer being portrayed as having a range of more than a few hundred meters. Suddenly one is bullseyeing X-Wings while it's practically still a dot on the horizon.

Regardless, discussing the physics of space flight in regards to Star Wars is pretty pointless, the speeds, ranges and power of a ship is obviously "as needed" rather than to any specification. And what is needed in that scene is that the Star Destroyer is far away and the ion cannon disables it so the transport can pass, before it enters the danger zone. Why would the rebels wait with firing until they were in range of the SD? Who says they were even going to fire at all and not just capture them with their tractor beam like someone suggested? A million things could be said, but ultimately you are messing with a creative decision for no reason.

And your result is emotionally out of tune with the rest of the battle. As I said before, it's about small but shining victories in the middle of overwhelming defeat, not about frustration.

I'm sorry, but your interpretation is very flawed. I'm sorry if I come off as rude, but it's hard not to when everyone explodes in my face for expressing my opinion.

EDIT:

In fact, the whole movie is like that. Nowhere is there any frustration or half victories in the whole movie. Either the empire is totally owning our heroes, or they're having one of their small but shining victories. But every time they do, save the very end, the empire is always right back on their tail.

adywan said:

It goes from the most enjoyable scene to the most pointless scene of the movie just like that.

Most pointless scene? Talk about over exaggeration. This whole scene never sat well with me since 1980. It seemed pretty pointless and unrealistic. The Empire have just turned up and started a blockade around the planet. They are preparing to kick the rebels asses. So what do they do? They see the first transport and 2 x-wings heading towards them, with no other stardestroyers in sight, and just sits there and waits until it flies straight at it. Oh wait, what if it suddenly turned away from the stardestroyer? oh well, that one slipped by. Oh come on. If they are their to wipe the rebels out, which they planned to do with aerial bombardments, they certainly wouldn't have just sat there. They would have tried to destroy the transport and it's escorts. Vader knew Luke wouldn't be on one of those transports so they would have been just cannon fodder.

As it stood originally it just looked like an easy escape. There was no sense of danger apart from one stationary stardestroyer that was doing sod all. It wasn't a surprising victory at all. I never felt that the transport was in any danger of being captured or destroyed. I always wondered why they just sat there and so did a lot of other people.

They never change course, they never "just sit there". The reason they aren't firing is because the ships are out of range obviously. They don't do anything when the transport flies past because they are busy being disabled by the ion cannon. It's an easy escape yes, but only because the empire completely underestimated the power of the ion cannon, which it what makes it so enjoyable. Why should it be a hard gritty trudge to escape when you have such a powerful weapon to back you up? That would just be frustrating to watch.

As it stands it has an emotional place in the battle. With your changes it means nothing and is completely pointless.

adywan said:

BmB said:

 Apart from looking incredibly fake in the trailer, having one x-wing shot down like that complete destroys that moment of victory.

Incredibly fake? In what way does it look "Incredibly" fake? And having one X-Wing shot down doesn't change anything. The victory is still there. The Stardestroyer is disabled and the transport escapes.

The X-wing just stops dead in it's tracks and turns into an animated explosion clip. In high contrast to the way nearly every other X-wing death is portrayed in the OT. If not every single one.

Second, it changes everything, as DE touched upon, the mood is dramatically affected from an unexpected and very pleasantly surprising victory - you know they're in for it, the empire knows they're in for it, they know they're in for it... but the Ion cannon knows something else - to simply another needlessly gritty, unpleasant and unsatisfying half-victory. It goes from the most enjoyable scene to the most pointless scene of the movie just like that.

That would be the transport escape scene, I always look forward to it and I always get a thrill from it, it's one of the few small victories for the rebels in the movie, and as such is so much more enjoyable. Apart from looking incredibly fake in the trailer, having one x-wing shot down like that complete destroys that moment of victory.

It's probably going to be one of the few, if not the only change in the edit that might keep it from replacing GOUT for me.

Still very excited, still horribly disappointed that this great edit will be at the cost of IMHO the most enjoyable scene in the whole movie for me.

:/

What do you mean there's no music that matches? The music in place already matches perfectly, I find it hilarious that a dramatic cue would be playing to Luke just standing around extending his wire for a while.

yoda1138 said:

Kinda bothered me how Luke, a JEDI throws a rock like a sissy when fighting the Rancor. (found out its a skull, may have to change my edit)

So heres my Force throw.....

 

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K7f1AsYAb4

 

ADY, I now see what a dark path you have gone down. So addictive! :-)

You see, this is why Jedis suck now. You just can't keep your filthy fingers off pushing the force button just because you can. Today, a rock. Tomorrow, kamehameha.

The "sissy" part makes Luke human. And all the more impressive that he could defeat the Rancor. Heck, you see the size of that rock? I know he's gotta be fit and all, but who could throw that even 3 meters? Let alone across a room. Maybe he's already force throwing it.

Delicious.

I think headphones create needless listening fatigue, and they have no real space in them.

Maybe it's my big ears. :/

Burdokva said:

I've always though that the Falcon's flight trajectory was preset. After all, the technicians messed up its hyper-drive, maybe it was programmed to fly towards the Executor? Yes, it does have the plot-hole that they went to get Luke first, but still..

Also, I'm not sure how it is explained in the EU, but can a ship's tractor beam hold on to another ship, if the latter engages its hyper-drive engine? Maybe Lando and Chewie didn't care about the tractor beams (and thus flying towards the Executor), as long as they got the hyper-drive working.

 

Star Wars space physics is a strange thing, and a Star Destroyer is apparantly a very fast thing, able to keep up with the Falcon during the chase through open space. I figure they spotted the SSD, tried to fly away, but due to this unseen speed that is made to seem slow because of how massive the ships are, the Executor can still intercept the Falcon without it's modified hyperdrive. In ANH Han also boasts that he can outrun the "big corellian ships", which is apparantly a speed benchmark. Would make sense again that he empire posesses the best equipment.

And also in ANH the incoming star destroyer quickly catches up with the falcon, revelaing that the only arena in which the falcon can actually outrun them is hyperspace. "I thought you said his thing was fast?!"

BmB said:

To be honest I think you nailed it from day one with that SSD on black.

To elaborate, I think that while most of your other proposals are fairly generic, - stuff you'd see on just any old ESB album ( :P ) - the first one is unique. It has its own identity and expression.

It can stand out. It's simple, clean and imposing. It says, "I'm special."

Nerfherder said:

BmB said:

Actually the shuttle sequence fits in between a musical cut anyway.

I disagree - it may fit VISUALLY, but no way in hell does it fit in musically. In the good old days of fim appreciation when people had attention spans longer than 3 seconds the music was often considered a work of art in its own right, and FLOWED with the visuals enhancing the on-screen action and providing much of the emotional connection between viewer and story/characters. This is just an absolute trashing of a once beautiful and 'heart pounding' scene with absolutely top notch pacing and editing. It now resembles the kind of thing you'd get in a computer game cut scene quite frankly. This piece of music was scored to the 1980 version of this scene. It consequently fits it like a glove. One change in the scene disrupts the intended musical flow - Whoever was responsible should be ashamed at doing such a bad hatchet job.

I may be mistaken, but the shuttle takeoff is positioned between the "Escape from Bespin" and "Hyperspace" cues, no? That's what I meant. It fits, or rather sits- in the space where there was a musical cut before. A seamless one but a cut nonetheless.

Actually the shuttle sequence fits in between a musical cut anyway.

No, really, I feel like some tension is missing in there. The shuttle sequence adds that, but then finally destroys it with the boring landing.

To be honest I think you nailed it from day one with that SSD on black.

2020? :O

Actually I think the only real pace-breaker is the actual landing sequence. Everything from that rather nice matte of Vader going up to the shuttle to it flying off into space before the breathtaking "space dawn" shot looks nice without really breaking anything. And seems to add needed pause to a scene that otherwise feels a bit rushed.

You also need owen. Someone has to follow obi wan on that damn fool idealistic crusade you know.

You just about had me worried there. It's bad enough that guy who made a music video in fan edits just disappeared and possibly committed suicide without ABC having a heart attack.

As for the samples, despite the distortions and age of the recordings they sound better than most of my CD's. There's almost no comparison to the existing releases. I have nothing bad to say about them. Not a useful post, but it's a very well put together piece of work this.

Well that's a tradeoff between security and usability.

Ripplin said:

BmB said:

User permission issues isn't Windows' fault.

Then why did I NEVER see this before Vista? :p

You did. Running as anything but admin on any version of Windows is practically impossible. Just earlier versions of Windows didn't show that fault when you were running as admin.

User permission issues isn't Windows' fault. It's generally software that requests admin access when it really shouldn't. UAC is basically just the Microsoft version of the same system that has kept UNIX "virus free" for ages.

It really should default to admin when you turn UAC off on an admin account though. Don't know what messed up there.

This is all rather disconcerting.

Failure of epic proportions. How could it become green anyway?