Bingowings

oh_riginal said:

fishmanlee said:

but luke took off vaders suit

 

I don't think that would make any difference at all. Obi Wan's robes were left on the Death Star, and likely was destroyed in the explosion. So by this logic, should Obi Wan not have access to his robes as a ghost?

This is sounding sillier and sillier to me suddenly... the whole debate on what a ghost gets to wear or not wear I mean! Or how old they appear, or how much hair they have... it gets to be a bit much.

But I have a question anyway: If Qui Gon is the original Jedi Force Ghost (OG: Original Ghost!), and thus taught Yoda and Obi Wan how to also become force ghosts, then why is Vader able to do the same, since he never learned this technique?

Related question: Why isn't Qui Gon not there with Anakin/Yoda/Obi Wan? Yeah, he doesn't know Luke, and Luke would only be confused if he saw a strange Jedi standing there, but he is still the only other Jedi (non-EU) to be able to do this.

 

Reminds me of this old mock up that has been on youtube for quite some time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aIZZyIgpco

(I did not make it)

Looking at this mock up, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch, since in the edit, Luke looks away before Qui Gon appears... perhaps it could be interpreted that he appeared to observe what he so strongly believed in: Seeing Anakin's success in balancing the force.

Ah, early morning ramblings... I get carried away, sorry folks!

Maybe the boy got it right in the first place:

Anakin : "No one can kill a Jedi."

Qui-Gon : "I wish that were so".

Perhaps in his raw untrained state he was more atuned to the true nature of the Force than he ever was as a Jedi or a Sith.

He is described in the prequels a some sort of mechansism for resetting the balance of the Force (thousands of Jedi and two Sith, two Sith and two Jedi, when one takes on an apprentice another Jedi is killed to correct the balance, when another dies he kills a Sith his roles seem to match even the rank of the Jedi/Sith involved Master for Master, Apprentice for Apprentice).

Where that leaves his children is wide open question but with his job done he can now take his place in Jedi Valhalla and turn up now and then for social calls.

I know this belongs more on the Radical Redux thread but with Qui-Gon being a bit of a herald of the chosen one in the linear TPM plan I dropped in over there it might make sense to have Qui-Gon gain the knowledge of Force Haunting from the same source of inspiration as where he got his intuitions about Anakin from.

To be more honest I'm more upset about the death of Mollie Sugden, she was more of a major player in my childhood and I suppose that's the only way we can respond to celebrity deaths. We never meet these talented people but their work and their media profile creates an illusion of familiarity that can place them almost within our familes, especially now that extended families living in the same area for a lifetime is becoming a vanishingly rare phenomena.

Finding out what Gary Glitter was up to felt like finding out that a percieved eccentric uncle had committed a terrible crime, compounding the horror of what he did with a deep seated personal feeling of disappointment.

If all the Jedi were cloned it could explain the confusion and keep the surprises about Vader and Anakin and also explain away some of the continuity errors in the PT as we saw it.

Maybe in the future when the technology picks up we could have multiple versions of the Jedi leading the clone troopers.

You can see why the EU obsessed about clone technology in the early days because like superweapons they are an unavoidable consequence of being introduced as a technology of that universe.

Unfortunately unavoidable consequence often leads to very boring stories.

adywan said:

Bingowings said:

Here is a mini preview of the scope of the thing, I still have to find and map in a lot of details and correct wonkyness but you get the general idea all of this made possible by Ady's HD version of ANH, still can't find any quality info for the near end of the arch as it never appeared on screen anyway:

don't know if this pic would be any help to you or not

 

Actually that helps a great deal (not so much for the detail as it is understandably blurry) but for the angle and alignment the arch curve and the placement of some of the furniture.

Thanks again Ady.

I may even be able to add a ceiling and more of a floor to the thing if I can replicate the texture.

The final image will not be true HD because to merge the seperate elements together will create a real patchwork but I will make the final mosiac available for anyone who wants to further adjust it to there own ends, (further decay, lightsabre building materials different light conditions and the like).

I've kept R2 in the shot for scale but I will produce a version with him removed too for people who want to have a real blank slate to work from.

Remember all those rumors that Obi-Wan was going to be a clone (original batch one) and that Ben was just a name to tell him from all the others?

It sounds daft now but with all those phonetically spelt droid names it kind of makes sense, even the clones in the animated series have personal names on top of their serial numbers.

Lando was going to be a clone at one point, I wonder if they kept shunting the idea along until they found a place that fitted better.

Darth Chronus said:

DuTwan said:

right guys, ive darkened the hair on my mock up off sebastian. Will give you the images from original seb, first edit and new seb.

Excellent job. Could you do a version where you crinkle his hair a little bit to match Christensen's? :)

 

Looking at this I couldn't help but think of:

 My higher rez panorama of Ben's hut is coming on a pace (for bringing Ben's ghost home post sabre hiding/message recording)

Here is a mini preview of the scope of the thing, I still have to find and map in a lot of details and correct wonkyness but you get the general idea all of this made possible by Ady's HD version of ANH, still can't find any quality info for the near end of the arch as it never appeared on screen anyway:

vaderios said:

Bingowings said:

I can't stand that Mekon chair thing that Yoda floats around in.

I prefer to see him floating with a flying chair rather to see him flying around with a lightsaber :)

-Angel

 

The two make a nonsense of each other.

Either he is a Jedi Master with super human acrobatic skill or he is a feeble old wise man who needs to be carried around in a floating chair.

If Yoda can lift an X-wing out of a swamp with the Force why would he need that chair anyway? If floating was so important to the wee green guy he'd just do it without a floating chair.

Why couldn't they just have him walking and have Windu and Kenobi look down when they talk to him.

The deleted scene is so much better, shame that the effects are half done.

Ripplin said:

In a way, it would be viewed as an extreme test of patience if people had to walk with him in such massive buildings. I figure the chair was made because A) laziness, B) so people could walk along with him at a reasonable speed. Heh.

 

I thought the Jedi were meant to be patient, they seem to make a big deal of Luke and Anakin's lack of it and the Dark Side is meant to be the quick and easy path.

Shame you put in all that effort for a floor Yoda can't be bothered to walk on.

I can't stand that Mekon chair thing that Yoda floats around in.

As for the Piett turning against the Emperor (I think he would never turn against the Empire, just the crazy wizards who keep killing his men) I thought of having him seal the bridge by bringing the blast shields down on the corridor sections.

To do this I thought it might be fun to pinch one line of dialogue from ST:TMP,  "Seal off the bridge" (make it sound like it's some unseen officer) so the Shat himself will actually be in a Star Wars movie (the legend didn't get to be in the latest Star Trek movie so why not go one further).

You could have a shot of Stormies on the other side trying to break through to retake the ship bookending the scene in TPM where Qui-Gon tries the same thing.

We can but dare to dream.

Maybe it was to prepare us for Ziro the Hutt (it's hard to believe that George could come up with a character even more camp than Threepio).

vaderios said:

YES YES!

fuck mind blowing :P

 

-Angel

Go on then, show us how it's done.

It might be even better if we got a similar reveal to the battle of Coruscant in ROTS.

A few TIE fighters, down to a Star Destroyer which moves to one side revealing the even bigger Executor, which moves to one side to reveal the top of the Death Star 2 which fills most of the screen.

A series of reveals by unblocking.

The opening of ROTJ sums up everything that's wrong about the film, it's a pointless rehash of the opening of ANH (pointless because without the battle the scale of the ship no longer demonstrates the strength of the Empire) and they cut away before the sweep is finished.

The object that should represent the might of the Empire (the Death Star) looks so tiny and fragile.

A better opening would be to trump the Executor reveal in ESB.

Show the Executor arriving to drop off Vader with support ships and then have it suddenly dwarfed by the huge scale of a gigantic Death Star (with lots of building activity) popping into view as the camera pans down.

That way you get a sense of progression.

ANH shows how big a Star Destroyer is.

ESB shows how big the Executor is in scale with the Star Destroyer.

ROTJ shows how big the Death Star is in scale with the Executor.

Something like (only better and possibly from the other side which would mean a new model would have to be built or matte painted) :

Slightly off topic but for those that are interested and within reception range BBC iplayer is playing Leigh Brackett's Last Days Of Shandakor the first episode is up:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b007k2tj/Last_Days_of_Shandakor_Episode_1/

EyeShotFirst said:

why dont they use debris to their advantage in this movie. All these ships exploding should send shrapnel (please tell me thats how you spell it) to other ships causing problems. I hope adywan makes the Rebel and Imperial fleets more epic in size too.

That is how we spell it :-D

That reminds me of the sort of chaos that the ships in nuGalactica cause when they let rip.

My only problem with that is could the Rebel fleet survive "Firepower of that magnitude"?

I'm still Jonesing for my Piett has enough scenerio.

Imagine him pointing that sort of firepower at the Death Star as he bravely rams the station to defend his fleet.

That's the sort of change this film needs, correcting the colour is one thing (important as it is) but giving the story a fitting conclusion with surprises is the only way to lift this movie into the epic scale to match the two films that preceded it.

Remember when George dissed Godzilla by saying "Story Matters" ?

Big words from the PT guy, that's something that needs to come through in a major re-working, especially in ROTJ as it is more easy to salvage than the PT.

They are great repair jobs but I still prefer some of the more radical colour alterations that Angel has done where even the DVD image becomes more clear and more tied in with the universe as seen in the OT.

I'd really would like to see prequel versions more like that but the real problem for me with the PT and ROTJ lies in structure, performance and story decisions (the colour palette is important but it's largely superficial).

For me it's more important to fix the story but to do that it helps to have the best source material to work from so it's great to have those sets as a building block.

or "I will test it first, bring in Representative Binks".

or replacing Threepio with Jar-Jar and having him shot to pieces by the Stormies on Cloud City.

It might be fun if the walls of the reactor chamber were to spin making the whole chamber part of the reactor rather than just the giant chalice thing in the middle (like being inside an enormous turbine).

It would add an extra obstacle to escaping the chamber too if the Falcon and the X-wing had to line up with the gap they entered through.

Other suggestions could be having Jar-Jar having a stroll outside Jabba's palace only to end up being eaten by the burping frog thing, have him still on the bongo as it falls off the water fall, have him tumble off the senate podium and having him in the control tower knocked down by the Invisible Hand.

Do Gungans Wilhelm scream?

That flows so much better Dave.

He could be running down the landing bay of the Rebel base as the snowspeeder comes to land, Smplonch!

There really should be a Jar-Jar death on each and every Revisited installment.

He could be the Kenny of the set.

Monroville said:

Personally, I can go either way.  JEDI is just so damn goofy I don't know what you can do with it.

If you wanted it to be more serious, you would have to do a HELL of a lot more than just wack Lando, of which we've talked about:

(1) more native-esque, VC-ish Ewoks, with some storm trooper limbs getting tossed into the air during the dogpile scenes, as well as showing the Ewoks ability for digging tunnels with claws or tools; have more pit-related traps that the Imps wouldn't see coming (like logs on top of a cleared hill in an otherwise dense forest)

(2) a stronger voice for Vader with maybe some lines from EMPIRE to help him come across as a stronger character (or at least as the SAME character as what we saw in EMPIRE)

(3) if we have the whole corelation between Luke's mech arm and Vader's mech arm, I would still like to see Luke tearing off peices of machinery and throwing them at Vader during the final fight ala what Vader did at Bespin to show just how close Luke is to turning to the Dark Side, much less give a reason as to Vader taking a dive like he does.  I have NEVER bought that whole bit where Prowse damn near "knees the ball for a safety" and allows Mark to whack away at his arm and that is somehow supposed to convince me that Luke had the powa to overthrow Vader.

(4) being that the original intention before Lucas "prequelized" JEDI was to kill a main character, I know these edits are primarily for Ady, being that he is doing all the hard work, but it would still be nice to see what Kurtz and those others who seemed to take all of this more seriously than Lucas had in mind.

Regardless, if you wanted to keep it more or less the same, that would mean less editing and altering.. but then what is the point?  Ady can redo the space battle to make it more exciting and a little more serious, but if the ewoks are still a joke and Darth Vader is still a lame lackie, it's still going to be the same "prequel before the prequels" JEDI.

Even more regardless, this is a good 3 to 5 years off, so we'll have plenty of time to banter until then....

It would make sense keep posting the radical changes here seeing as there have been so many suggested here already.

And move the more basic stuff over to the inevitable ROTJ:R thread when it eventually pops up.

It would seem from Ady's post that his edit won't be going down the sort of route that the fan-o-matic suggested either.

So it looks like we will have to look elsewhere for a major story re-jig but it does mean somewhere down the line when Ady has finished his version their will be a better looking version to re-shuffle and who knows what talent and technology will be around in that exciting space year.

There again this latest update might be yet another joke at our expense and his final version might more out there than even our most bizarre suggestions.

adywan said:

rcb said:

for the cloaking device debate, the sith infiltrator, maul's ship, was a craft developed by the sith and since it was created by the sith, it has a cloaking device. the sith aren't retards and they needed to keep a low profile. i'm sure someone would've noticed a sith infilitrator taking off out of couruscant traffic. its a bit noticeable.

and ady, no offense to u, but u can't take everyline in a movie, in this case ESB, seriously.

Isn't the whole "Sith infiltrator having a cloak" having a cloak an EU thing anyway? because it certainly isn't in TPM.  If the sith created cloaking devises for their ships then why the hell when a sith is ruling the galaxy doesn't any of their ships have a cloak? Another useless EU addition. The amount of ships flying around Coruscant, with many different types coming and going, do you really think one little ship would stick out? no.

And it has nothing to do with taking every line in ESB seriously at all. It has to do with continuity. The EU and especially  the PT for that matter, should have taken what was said in the OT seriously then we wouldn't have the amount of fuck ups between the 2 trilogies and having the EU trying to explain it all.

 

As much as I really try to avoid conversations of this type my pedantry gland is over active today.

If the Sith did develop secret stealth technology it would make sense not putting in every ship of the Imperial fleet because then their cutting edge top secret technology would become common place. If the Rebels got hold of one Imperial ship they'd have mini cloaking devices too, their advantage would be lost and the Star Wars saga would be a visually exciting as Invisible War And Peace.

The technology could be sitting in a secret vault somewhere just in case the Sith order had to go back undercover for another thousand years but frankly it's a silly idea, cloaking devices belong in Star Trek, not Star Wars and certainly not Doctor Who.