Bingowings

Darth Venal said:

Hi there!

Yes I did, although I'm not sure if I saw the purist version I have read about. How would I know which one it was?

I thought some of the things in this version were excellent, some of them a bit so-so. Am I allowed to say that? One of the other posters seems a bit over-defensive.

But I liked it. Are there any other great fan edits you can recommend?

DV

The best way to figure out which version you saw is to look at the front page of this thread and see if the description matches (oh and look at how the version you saw was titled, the word Purist will no doubt feature there if that was the case).

And yes you are allowed to hold any opinion about any edit or project you see here but you may get a less than warm response if you make comments which are clearly counter to objective reality.

Have a good look around there is plenty of fun to be had, things to learn and things to do on here.

As for other edits and projects, that would pretty much be down to your tastes and interests.

I'm assuming that you are a Star Wars fan as you posted here first and there are not just edits but some really good documentaries and preservations in this section covering every Star Wars incarnation I can recall.

And over here http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/forum.cfm/Other-Fan-Edits-and-Preservation-Efforts/forum/11/ you will find threads covering all manner of other film and television projects.

Have a good wander and if in doubt send someone a private message most of the people on here are a helpful bunch.

Darth Venal said:

 

Being a whiny bitch

You call someone a whiny bitch and expect to be taken seriously?

Welcome to these boards Darth Venal, did you enjoy ANH:R?

Mr Ghostface said :

Definitive? If you think so, I'm happy for you. And about providing it for free, do remember that's piracy, won't you.

There is bound to be a seperate thread for discussing the legal standing of fan-edits in General Discussion (if not please start your own).

How is something blind praise when it's based on a visual (and audial) appraisal of a person's work? Surely blind praise would be to praise someone just for the sake of it without seeing what they have done.

I don't think ANH:R is the definitive version of the film (that was released in 1977 under the title of Star Wars) but it is a very impressive re-working and superior to both versions of the SE.

You seem to be under the impression that those who have negatively reacted against your comments (including myself) are doing so because we agree with every change Adywan made and don't care about making further changes in future reworkings.

This is not the case (and for those who do hold that opinion are as free to hold and express it as you are with yours).

What is irritating is your unsubstantiated claims that Ady's work is:

not all that special and some of the praise Adywan gets for it seems to be borne of an ignorance of how much simpler this is to do than a lot of people realise.

We all know that Adywan puts years of work into these projects and while we may not agree with every decision he makes, we can see the work and appreciate the effort.

And yes it is provided to us for free (we already own the official versions of these films and any new elements are either derived from those versions or are original to these versions).

If you truly think the same results can be achieved with less effort we would really like to know how (it would be a great benefit to all of us, especially Ady who would like to complete future projects without spending so much time and money).

If you are just making this stuff up, you deserve what you get in terms of negative comments (not that I think it worries you much).

Jonno said:

I'd just like to state here, once and for all, that a SONG is a piece of music with VOCALS. The term does not apply to instrumental music, such as film scores - piece/track/cue is fine, but not song.

Now please pass this on to the rest of the internet k thx.

Actually a song doesn't even need music but it does need words ex :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_of_Songs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songs_of_Innocence_and_of_Experience

For me none of the music is scary as such but The Magic Tree is rather spooky especially with the sudden appearance of synthesised sounds (putting the piece out of the usual range of Star Wars Music), Padmé's Ruminations has some strange evocative sounds on there too.

If it's soundtrack music in general The Eggs (from Alien) and Night of the Electric Insects (The Exorcist) hit the mark every time.

Ok so it's not Gone With The Wind but surely this should be an inspiration to some of us on here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_west/8170551.stm

Nice to hear our old pal Wilhelm doing what he does best in the trailer.

vaderios said:

adywan said:

 

I was ready yo mention that shot in ESB:R topic and its bad coloring. Look how good and correct shadows appeared in the 1980 version. With these redish ones looklike is ROTJ at its bad.

 

-Angel

Sorry to change the subject but am I the only one seeing a Hitler moustache on Mark in the 1980 capture?

Jonno said:

I was hoping we'd find something like that via this thread, but nowt as yet. Googling for 'BBFC' images is frustrating too - you'd think they'd be more commonplace!

Where'd you get your Rank ads, by the way? Off Youtube, or do you have a better quality source?

Yeah off youtube but to be frank my local Odeon played that ad reel on a loop for so long that the degredation in quality only adds to the realism ;-)

C3PX said:

Can't help you with the BBFC certificates, but as for other films being advertised, this might be useful:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_in_film

I have always found wikipedia's year lists to be very useful for putting films into the context of their time (which is something I always like to do.

 

The Spy Who Loved me came out that year, not sure what month, but that might be a cool trailer to show along side CE3K's trailer.

I'm starting to think that Herbie Goes To Monte Carlo might have been advertised during my first encounter with the big white wedge shape in the sky.

I definately remember seeing trailers for ABBA The Movie, Pete's Dragon and The Deep sometime in my childhood too.

Thanks for the link C3PX.

Mr Ghostface said :

I was just pointing out that it's not all that special and some of the praise Adywan gets for it seems to be borne of an ignorance of how much simpler this is to do than a lot of people realise.

How? If you can't back up this claim with an explanation you might as well be saying you can transmute base metals into gold.

Bingowings, I have no intention of justifying further any "negative" criticisms I have made because I don't have to. I'm as entitled to criticise a fan editor's work as I am the work of professionals, as are we all.

Offering constructive criticism is perfectly valid and possibly helpful but claiming to be able to achieve similar results with less effort does require justification if you want your comments to be taken seriously in any way.

If you possess such skills passing them on will assist people in making more projects some of which will be more to your liking.

But when I've heard a decade and more of Lucas-bashing for his "meddling", I'd like to think we can avoid making similar (or the same) mistakes in our own work.

People are critical of George Lucas altering his films in ways that don't sit well with them not just because of the alterations themselves but because he has refused to make available the original films to a high quality and both DVD sets have been presented to us in an inferior way (that was why this site was originally set up).

We are all Star Wars fans, none of us would be here if we weren't appreciative of the good work he has done, most of us have paid money to see these films in various formats over the years.

When both DVD sets are of such low quality it understandable that people are going to be angry with that.

These weren't free fan edits, they were officially produced and distributed by the same company that made and distributed the films and were purchased by the people who provided those companies with the fortunes they currently play with.

Adywan on the other hand created not just this project but a Purist Edition (stripped of much of the changes you don't like) as well as restorations of the theatrical and DVD cuts of the prequels.

Like all of us he is lending his voice to getting a high quality version of the original films released so we can buy them.

That puts what he does, as an amateur (in the true sense of the word) in a totally different place to what Lucas and Lucasfilm has done as large Hollywood concern.

DarthBo said:

Bingowings, relax man, the guy is allowed to have an opinion. It's not like he's the only one who doesn't like some of Adywan's choices.

As the French say: les goûts et les couleurs, ça ne se discute pas.

Mr Ghostface, you should get the purist edition. It still has some of the unnecessary changes, but it's an improvement (imho) :-)

That isn't what I posted against, I myself don't like all of the changes that Adywan made, I also directed Mr Ghostface to the Purist Version.

What I took umbrage with his assertion that people were laying undue praise at Adywan's feet for work which is much simpler than a lot of people realise. 

If you read my earlier replies to his comments they were in a much lighter vein.

The post that follows isn't just an opinion on an edit, it's a arrogant derogation of what almost everyone who posts here is trying to do. While it might be within the rules of the forum what purpose does it serve? What do we learn from it (other than not to take this man's comments seriously)?

Mr Ghostface said :Actually Mr Ghostface has a lot of other things to do besides come here all the time because, as you asked, yes, I work in the industry. Before this goes any further, please let me say that I don't feel a negative criticism demands deeper explanation than a positive. If you feel disrespected, I'm sorry. Insulting you wasn't the intention. But if I can't say I think the blue planet sucked without getting demands to justify myself, then sorry, delusions of grandeur have taken hold. So what if it was a hi-res NASA photograph? When you composited it and did whatever you did to it, it didn't look very good. And while I'm busy not defending my point of view, and my right to criticise, let's all just take a look at how freely we all lambast George Lucas for what he's "done" to our beloved trilogy. I'm sure I don't need to cut and paste negative opinions of the special editions, or indeed Adywan's own feelings which motivated him to make his edits. But that's okay? Despite the fact that he created these movies in the first place, it's then perfectly okay for people to throw harsh criticism at some of his decisions over the special editions. Yet when someone like me criticises further changes made by a fan editor, I'm out of order? That's more than a little hypocritical. Yes, Adywan has put a commendable amount of effort into his work. I think his dedication to it is truly impressive. But that means I can't say some of it doesn't work? Or that some of it is just plain unnecessary? Nonsense.

Star Wars was a moderately budgeted sci-fi flick which happened to do big business. If there are minute discrepancies between the position of R2-D2 in one shot and the next, because of the practicalities of the shoot, who cares? Not very many people. If some scenes don't have music, maybe Lucas and Williams know what they're doing? And so who cares if someone spends hours of their time "correcting" something that never needed correcting?

C3PX said:

Bingowings said:

If you aren't on here to help in anyway why are you here?

If you aren't prepared to back up you claims with hard evidence or your membership on this forum with some useful advice or projects of your own it's perfectly reasonable for us to surmise that you a useless fraudster and should be defenestrated from Castle OT.COM ASAP.

 

Perhaps we should be cautious of how high in the air we hold our noses, I have heard of good people drowning from this when a big rain comes along.

I don't think anyone needs to defend their membership here. These boards are open to anyone with a computer and an internet connection. This isn't an exclusive club where you have to make some amazing SW fan edit, or have made suggestions to an editor of one in order to be welcome. If so, then I suppose myself and several other regular members here are not welcomed either.

Mr. Ghostface is quite welcome here, and has absolutely no need to fear being defenestrated from OT.com so long as he doesn't go along breaking any of the forum rules, and so far, he has not, nor has he given us any reason to suspect he might do so in the future.

 

I agree with that accessment of OT.COM as a whole (it was originally a campaign site for getting the unaltered OT presented on DVD but has expanded since to include other projects and general discussion).

However this section is clearly labelled Fan Edits, Preservation Efforts, and Other Fan Projects which implies a bit more than signing up, dropping as yet unsubstantiated claims, uncharitable and incendiary comments and not contributing anything in the way of advice, suggestions or effort.

There are places within and without these forums where general comments can be made, the section heading however underlines the doing side of things. If you look around the majority of people on here are either producing something or helping someone else produce or find something (even if it's just by giving positive support or providing constructive criticism) and that includes yourself C3PX.

Mr Ghostface has (so far) made negative comments about another site, underplayed the effort involved in the creation of and misunderstood the aims of ANH:R, claimed to be able to produce similar results without substantial effort (without proof) and provided little if anything (as yet) of positive worth.

Moderators step in when the rules are broken but when the spirit of a forum is tarnished in this way it's understandable that the reaction will be negative, not because a postee doesn't like every aspect of a particular project because what is being presented in terms of comment is not germane to the purpose of place on which it is posted.

Now if he were to back up what he said with suggestions or illustrations of how it could be done, or proof that effort could be saved by doing something in a different way, that would be helpful, very welcome and in keeping with the function of these particular forums.

This isn't meant to be an insult Coov (infact it's what I really like about those designs).

The single background colour, single logo colour and framed artwork reminds me of the plastic lunch boxes and thermos flasks that were around when I was kid.

Do a nice Tupperware range, perhaps you could find a plastic transfer that could attach to a box that could hold all of the films and present the saga as a HD feast for the senses.

Mr Ghostface, in your response you once again failed to recognise that ANH:R is not a adjustment of Star Wars (1977) but an attempt to provide us with a better version of the so called Special Edition/s.

You also failed to answer my simple request.

If this sort of work is so easy please show us work that you have done that was simple and looks as good (and tell us how you did it while you are at it, that would be helpful).

If you aren't on here to help in anyway why are you here?

If you aren't prepared to back up you claims with hard evidence or your membership on this forum with some useful advice or projects of your own it's perfectly reasonable for us to surmise that you a useless fraudster and should be defenestrated from Castle OT.COM ASAP.

Go on!

Show us what you can do and we will take what you say seriously.

G E Predator said:

The list looks good...thought I don't think that R2-D2 needs to be redubbed.

I don't think he needs redubbing with human actors but he certainly needs redubbing (the oft mentioned R2 laughing his metal boobs off at the prospect of his friend getting a lobotomy in ROTS for just one example).

Does anyone know of a site which holds galleries of film certificates (specifically in my case the BBFC Certificates for the Star Wars Films)?

I'm trying to demonstrate what a viewing of Star Wars would be like for me in 1977 to my godson who has gone off Doctor Who (for the time being) and has gone Star Wars crazy.

I have the Rank advert blocks and a trailer for Close Encounters (can't think what the other films advertised would be).

But I would really like the certificate shown before the film started.

If they actual certificate cant be found if someone has a U certificate of that era I could make a mock up.

Gaffer Tape said:

That's actually an amazing idea!

Han Solo is not blind, he suffers from Bozeman's Simplex, a disease that causes him to see 25.62 times more than everyone else if you could see like Han does this is what you would be seeing right now :

I've recently been enjoying watching ADM's Extended Potter cuts, great stuff.

Has anyone ever attempted to alter the face of You Know Who... in the first film to make it look more like the Ralph Fiennes version?

I wonder if eventually any of the other lost scenes will turn up on a release (like the Peeves scene).

I think Ash is saying that a Mac Blu Ray burner matching his requirements exists but it is very expensive and he won't buy one until a reasonably affordable option becomes available.

fishmanlee strikes me as someone who is either very, very young, without English as a first language or really struggling with basic language/communication skills as often his posts make very little sense to me (as do some of his edit choices). He doesn't seem naturally articulate and would benefit from really looking at what he writes (and makes) before posting it for public view.

Ady you have been under a lot of strain and a lot of physical discomfort recently. Silly posts (like those posted over on the ANH:R thread) are bound to make even the most patient person a little more susceptible to comments which get an already sore back up.

You are putting so much work into these projects and this is your thread but respectfully I think a private message, a click of an ignore button on your youtube account and possibly similar action on here would make life easier for yourself.

I always click on if I see a comment from you because I want to keep up with your progress on this edit and if I can help in my limited way.

The best way to avoid the hassle that comes from a conflict is to avoid the conflict and one of the great things about the internet (unlike the real world) is that you can make the other side vanish with a wave of a magic ignore wand.

For people who enjoy stirring up and watching a scrap, I recommend video games or perhaps sports matches because the participants are either not real or well paid.

It might be funny to do a spoof version of the conference with jelly, cakes, balloons and little paper hats, thus justifying the "this party is over" line.

Rhikter said :

Agreed. I think that after 3PO get's his head knocked off we should not see him again until R2 his putting him back together.

I wouldn't even have that.

Either I'd remove Threepio altogether or I'd have him fall into the bowels of the droid factory and when R2 rescues him they find a means of alerting the Jedi to their position.

Ripplin said:

Bingowings said:

the whole PT has so much that sets my teeth on end

So...your teeth don't stand on end? Can I see a picture? Medical oddities are always interesting. ;)

 

By teeth I mean the few I have remaining due to a bizarre genetic misshap (my sister and her girls they have more teeth each than one mouth can deal with) photographic evidence is restricted to preserve the sanity of the readership of this organ.

Mace looks great in his pilot's chair (sure it takes some surprise out of his turning up in time but we know he is on his way already anyway).

Perhaps it would work better if we saw the Jedi entering the system before the Arena battle began leaving the lead up free to follow with the anticipation building up in the background (keeping the audience thinking "Mace where are you?").

Nice to see poor Threepio with his dignity maintained too.

Kind of missing the Jengo fight but it never made sense (like Boba, I never understood why a bounty hunter would act as a body guard. his role in life is to find people for money).

It would be very difficult to do but it would be a much more dramatic entrance to have the Jedi land in the arena shoot up the intial threat of the destroyer droids on the way down and jump out of their fighters (like Anakin and Obi-Wan do in ROTS).

If the Jedi were that good at sneaking into a crowded arena I think there would have been more standing by the time the clones showed up.

A massive improvement none the less.

As I said before we don't know which episodes that aren't recorded as written by RTD but were completely rewritten by him, something he freely admits to doing but for contractual reasons (probably) he can't disclose which ones he did.

Large chunks of RTD dialogue were dropped into stories by other writers to feed the build up to his finales which have got progressively worse with each season.

When people credit RTD for bringing back Doctor Who they tend to forget that Rose (a really awful episode only made watchable by Ecclestone's performance and the novelty of having the show back) did just as well (in terms of viewers and audience response) as the Paul McGann movie and the show at it's lowest point (budget slashed to next to nothing, stuck against Constipation Street with a BBC Director General desperate to kill the show ) was still pulling in the sort of audience figures that Torchwood or The Sarah Jane Adventures get now.

The person who really brought the show back was Julie Gardner who cut through the red tape holding back the nonsense of not bringing back a show that should never have gone away in the first place.

The British public always had a love affair with the character and the show, the viewing figures only went down when it was poorly served by the BBC (red lights should have been flashing when Michael Grade started his antiWho campaign when going out with the lead actor's estranged wife).

Somewhere there is an alternate universe where the show came back without RTD and I dare say it would be just as successful.

Somewhere there is a better alternate universe where in the mid eighties the production team wrote stories that could be made with the budget they had without the look and feel of panto and it never went off air.

I don't loath RTD as a producer (he has been great at maintaining a high profile for the show and securing funding) or even as a script editor but for someone who went out of his way to write the bulk of the stories during his tenure he just isn't that good a writer of stories, especially when fantasy/science fiction gives him an excuse to drop the ball in terms of story logic ( he is sometimes great at dialogue though).

Pointing to the Classic Who Hall Of Shame doesn't let him off the hook, I'd rather watch Timelash for all it's silliness than something as teeth grindingly awful as Journey's End or Last Of The Time Lords.

Other news :

http://www.seenit.co.uk/tom-baker-discusses-return-to-doctor-who/073872/

Don't you believe it!

There is a large amount of people who were 9 or 10 when TPM came out and see the original version as their PT in the same way that some people cringe at the idea of any dramatic changes to ROTJ.

Personally I find ROTJ just as troublesome as the PT (in some ways more so because it's the only blot on the OT where as the whole PT has so much that sets my teeth on end).

When Ady started ESB:R he thought it would be relatively straight forward compared with ANH:R but it looks like this time round there has been even more work put into it.

People on the whole praise Ady for actually doing a better job of producing a special edition of ANH than Lucas did (twice).

If it is so easy to do why aren't there more edits like ANH:R?

The answer being (as most people on here who have tried it will back up) it's not easy at all, it's time consuming, labour intensive hard work which is shared with us for free. So frankly any ignorance is on your part Mr Ghostface. If you seriously think it's that simple (if it is we who are labouring under a delusion here) show us what you have done that was as good and didn't take much effort.

When someone gives you something this good and doesn't charge you for it and doesn't try to remove the previous versions from distribution (in fact encourages people to purchase them) that deserves praise.

The same goes for all the other people who either create edits or contribute to them from behind the scenes.

What made this project special was the sheer amount of hard graft that went into it.

This wasn't just an edit of subtraction but also of addition of carefully chosen (and often personally crafted) elements.

A few editors had tried this before but never (as far as I know) to this scale, please point out examples if I am wrong.

If you haven't got anything in the way of positive suggestions or any projects of your own to show us, what have you got to offer?

Why are you here?

I can't understand the sort of person who goes out of their way to join a forum to just point at something and say, "Pfff, that's not so good" without actually pointing out what would make it better.

It's not IMDB here, this is a place where people either make things or help people make things.

Can you do that?

Mr Ghostface said:

 

Well, now you do. And every single friend of mine who watched it spotted it right away. For one thing, it still has the tint that the effects in Empire have, which is slightly blue, whereas in A New Hope the Star Destroyer shots have a warmer temperature to them, and they are very distinct. But yes, he just lifted effects from elsewhere in the trilogy and composited them together, with mixed results.

As I said earllier Ady flipped an element, short of building a large scale Star Destroyer model (which was beyond his means back then but by ROTJ:R who knows?) that was all he could do.

Which is at least more creative than flipping whole shots which Lucas does again and again even in the PT.

If you can think of ways to improve on this it would make sense to post them on the thread I directed to as Ady has gone on record that he won't be doing any more versions of ANH:R other people may and indeed are building on his work in other projects in various directions and leave your comments there may help those people produce a version that you are more happy with.