BedeHistory731

StarkillerAG said:

However, I agree with AniStar that the cleanest solution is to just remove that line from ROTJ. Are we really so purist that we need to destroy the whole thematic value of ROTS’s ending just to avoid cutting even a single line from the OT?

Indeed.

“Do you remember your mother, your real mother?”
“Why are you asking me this?”
“I don’t remember my mother.”

Very simple, doesn’t lose much of the original’s meaning, and without destroying the thematic structure of another movie in the series. If one is to cut “jealous Han” later in that scene, they might as well cut Leia’s contradiction.

Are the reshoots as obvious as they were for the prequels?

It’s also directly lifted from Lego Star Wars II: The Original Trilogy.

Ok, maybe not as cartoonishly so, but still.

SparkySywer said:

BedeHistory731 said:

What’s conveyed by the writing, cinematography, editing, and cultural context > authorial intent.

I don’t know how useful of an analytical tool this is, but if disagreement between the author and audience is a miscommunication, then we should analytically look at a work both for its intended message and its received message, which are coequal.

That makes sense, the idea of miscommunication that takes into account audience and author perception. I tend to put more weight on audience perception, since it says far more about the effect the work has rather than its intentions. Still, authorial intent is necessary for a comprehensive understanding. Even if it is just one voice among many commentators.

It’s probably my own experiences in fandoms that have me being initially dismissive of authorial intent, especially in fandoms where authors cling to a creator’s every word as gospel and beg for them to explain away all the sense of mystery and imagination in the worlds they’ve created. The creators’ words should be seen as fallible, ever-evolving, and constantly in conversation with public perception. What an author says on release day is likely to be different from what you say on a making-of documentary years later.

What’s conveyed by the writing, cinematography, editing, and cultural context > authorial intent.

If anything, the 1080p version will be closer to purist in terms of timing (no extended scenes) and music choices (duel music being optional).

Anakin Starkiller said:

Geez, I think this whole dyad solution is a bit convoluted and unnecessary. The dyad works with Ben and Rey because there’s an actual connection as they communicate the Force regularly and work together in the end to bring down Papa Palpy. Leia does none of that. The whole drawing of attention to her in RotJ feels like a narrative dead-end. You can’t just say “oh btw she’s your Force-sister” and then do nothing with it.

So, how would you remove the connection?

Anakin Starkiller said:

That’s why removing the sibling connection is a much better approach.

If it was possible to make Luke & Leia a dyad instead of siblings, it’d be much better.

Would we have gotten Creepio if the PT had lived up to its intentions? I remember the Auralnauts guys saying that Threepio had gotten “a raw deal” in the PT and Creepio was their way of riffing on that.

The Falcon’s hyperdrive was an “overclocked” device, possible to replicate on any YT-1300 or similar model.

The reshoot footage in the PT is something you can’t un-notice once you notice it, especially with regard to wigs and fake beards.

Darth Malgus said:

BedeHistory731 said:

Darth Malgus said:

SparkySywer said:

Darth Malgus said:

SparkySywer said:

Darth Malgus said:

I heard all the reasons about Hayden and the Redeeming nonsense created his ghost to become young again lol,
crap…

Shaw is a bad choice as well to be honest, since Anakin/Vader died at 45

Anakin/Vader only died at 45 after the prequels made him so young. Shaw was a perfectly fine choice in 1983.

Ghost Shaw worked well in 1983, but It doesn’t anymore. Personally, as I said in my previous post, I’m in favor of replacing the current 20-years old ghost Hayden with a version of Hayden himself that’s closer to his 40s.

Okay, but that doesn’t make it a “bad choice” that they cast Shaw, like you said. You can’t fault them for not having the clairvoyance during the production of RotJ to know that the prequels would contradict them two decades later. It’s not a flaw of the OOT and it’s not something that needed to be fixed.

Yes, but we’re no longer in 1983. Like it or not, there are other films now, and we must see things in a more united context.

Which is why I don’t agree with this attitude toward the OT. The OT came first. The OT portrayed Anakin as being old. The PT contradicted that. It’s not the OT’s fault and it shouldn’t be a good thing to “fix” the OT to fit in with the prequels, the prequels should have fit in with the OT themselves.

I mean, I know that this can annoy many people (especially the cultists of the original theatrical cut), but I am absolutely in favour of “fixing” the OT if this fixing results in a more united and cohesive story and narrows the small contradictions between the movies, again, regardless of who is to blame for these contradictions.

Then why are you posting on the site dedicated to the preservation of the theatrical cuts? Are you like Stardust and other Lucas “cultists” (given that you’re open to using that word) who want to see the OOT buried forever?

Nope. I’m in favour of restoring the OOT for a matter of historical preservation. I don’t hate the Special Editions, on the contrary, I would like other, more updated Special Editions of the OT to be made, but at the same time I would like the OOT to be restored for its historical value.

Y’know, we are of the same mind on this. But I’d SE the PT also.

rocknroll41 said:

BedeHistory731 said:

Maybe we’d have been better off if Lucas just made “The Star Wars” into a novel series. Who knows, maybe it would’ve been adapted into a set of movies?

Maybe. Sometimes I consider the sw77 novelization (The Adventures of Luke Skywalker), Splinter of the Mind’s Eye and the three Han Solo Adventures books to be “true” Star Wars.

My favorite adaptation of Splinter was the Blue Milk Special version.

https://www.bluemilkspecial.com/comic/splinter-of-the-minds-eye-part-40/

Darth Malgus said:

SparkySywer said:

Darth Malgus said:

SparkySywer said:

Darth Malgus said:

I heard all the reasons about Hayden and the Redeeming nonsense created his ghost to become young again lol,
crap…

Shaw is a bad choice as well to be honest, since Anakin/Vader died at 45

Anakin/Vader only died at 45 after the prequels made him so young. Shaw was a perfectly fine choice in 1983.

Ghost Shaw worked well in 1983, but It doesn’t anymore. Personally, as I said in my previous post, I’m in favor of replacing the current 20-years old ghost Hayden with a version of Hayden himself that’s closer to his 40s.

Okay, but that doesn’t make it a “bad choice” that they cast Shaw, like you said. You can’t fault them for not having the clairvoyance during the production of RotJ to know that the prequels would contradict them two decades later. It’s not a flaw of the OOT and it’s not something that needed to be fixed.

Yes, but we’re no longer in 1983. Like it or not, there are other films now, and we must see things in a more united context.

Which is why I don’t agree with this attitude toward the OT. The OT came first. The OT portrayed Anakin as being old. The PT contradicted that. It’s not the OT’s fault and it shouldn’t be a good thing to “fix” the OT to fit in with the prequels, the prequels should have fit in with the OT themselves.

I mean, I know that this can annoy many people (especially the cultists of the original theatrical cut), but I am absolutely in favour of “fixing” the OT if this fixing results in a more united and cohesive story and narrows the small contradictions between the movies, again, regardless of who is to blame for these contradictions.

Then why are you posting on the site dedicated to the preservation of the theatrical cuts? Are you like Stardust and other Lucas “cultists” (given that you’re open to using that word) who want to see the OOT buried forever?

Maybe we’d have been better off if Lucas just made “The Star Wars” into a novel series. Who knows, maybe it would’ve been adapted into a set of movies?

rocknroll41 said:

Nice to see other people finally becoming sw77 purists like me!

That said, I was watching ESB just yesterday for the first time in awhile and I can at least appreciate how well it’s made from a technical standpoint.

As others here have said, it works very well on its own, but led to serious issues in the long run with the force, saber fights, familial themes, etc.

“Franchise original sin” really is a bitch, isn’t it?

KaneStarkiller said:

Superweapon VII said:

KaneStarkiller said:

• LISTEN TO THE FANS

Quoth the Stan Lee, “Never give the fans what they think they want.”

In that case, we will never see the untouched original trilogy get a proper remaster.

They didn’t mean the OOT restoration, they meant with storytelling stuff. Y’know, like the R-rated Vader movie idea or Plagueis being Snoke. Those ideas.

Superweapon VII said:

KaneStarkiller said:

• LISTEN TO THE FANS

Quoth the Stan Lee, “Never give the fans what they think they want.”

Indeed. The writer of Animorphs, Katherine Applegate, had a good answer to fan inquiries about the ending of the books.

War sucks. People die. I’m not going to write a happy ending. Deal with it.

Fans might want a happy ending, but the creator doesn’t always want the same. Fan-creator relationships can be fascinating, in the parasocial sense.

Thrawn probably drowned him in a toilet on his star destroyer. That’d be a fitting end to Ezra, the anchor around the neck of Rebels.

I enjoy every primary character in the show except him.

Padmé was reincarnated as Ezra.

The Star Wars Purist said:

BedeHistory731 said:

The Star Wars Purist said:

I liked Halloween Resurrection.

It’s infinitely better than Halloween Kills.

I think the only Halloweens I didn’t at least have a good time watching are the Rob Zombie ones.

The first one is definitely not a fun watch, but the second one is absolutely delightful in its wackiness and how unapologetically “Rob Zombie” it is.

Speaking of slasher remakes from the '00s-'10s, the Friday the 13th adaptation was the perfect distilling of the first four movies into a single feature. I’m kinda glad it didn’t have a sequel and that the Cunningham-Miller lawsuit has prevented another tacky reboot.

I would restore “Okay, hotshot!” to Han and Leia’s kissing scene.

JackNapier said:

dgraham414 said:

When Luke first touches his fathers saber he should see flash backs of his father in the Clone Wars.

No, he should see Anakin and Padme boning

It should be a recreation of Two Girls, One Cup with John Williams covering said music.

Also, Chewie should have subtitles that are just Messytails tweets. His fur is brown for a reason now!

Now that I’m thinking about a 2012 start, I’d make the ST take place 100 years after ROTJ. The big three of the OT can appear in flashbacks/ghost form for Luke, but Chewie/R2/3PO would be the only living returning characters. Setting a story 100 years later would give enough room to not feel like it messes too much with the OT. The Legends EU could remain largely untouched, aside from some obvious deletions (the Vong, Abeloth, The Force Unleashed series, etc.).

Another 2012 start element would be (aside from the theatrical cut restorations) to port as many of the classic Lucasarts Star Wars games to modern systems/PC - beyond what’s on Steam/GOG or Xbox backwards compatibility. Rogue Leader and Rebel Strike would be the biggest priority, even if they get limited to just the Switch (IDK how Nintendo’s exclusivity policy works). There’d obviously be no EA exclusivity deal, because EA is just terrible. Petroglyph would be making Empire at War II or maybe even Republic at War.

A new series of special editions, presented as additions to the theatrical cuts/earlier SE’s (like Blade Runner), would also appear. They’d mostly just clean up the OT to better-implement changes George wanted (Anakin ghost, Emperor conversation, Boba voice, etc.), remove overzealous stuff (Rontos, Greedo shooting, Sarlacc beak, etc.), and restore some useful stuff (Tagge calling Vader a sith, Leia saying “ok hotshot,” etc.). PT changes would simply be smoothing over some rough FX and restoring deleted scenes. Maybe the alleged four-hour ROTS would debut as a Disney+ promotion?

Superweapon VII said:

But like I said before, it should’ve always been Prowse.

Based and Prowse-pilled. He would’ve even been the right age for Anakin’s PT self in 1983 (mid- to late-40s).