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BedeHistory731

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10-Jul-2019
Last activity
10-Aug-2022
Posts
602

Post History

Post
#1491343
Topic
Unpopular Opinion Thread
Time

I was watching Elliot Roberts’ decidedly scathing review of Yesterday, and it got me thinking - that premise would probably work more with Star Wars. A world without Star Wars ever existing would be easier to portray than a world without The Beatles ever existing, especially since it’s more limited to film and television.

  • Perhaps people are more familiar with the movies that inspired Star Wars?
  • Would there be the same mainstream appreciation for directors like Kurosawa and the classic serials?
  • What would the blockbuster and movie merchandising look like in today’s age? The blockbuster phenomenon would probably still happen (Jaws), but would the template be different?
  • Whatever happened to the lesser and more known actors within the movie?
  • Did Jodorowsky make his adaptation of Dune?
  • Does Star Trek have a different fate, one where Planet of the Titans happened and different kinds of spin-offs existed?
  • How does the '80s play out in pop culture, without Star Wars generating so many of the tropes of that decade’s popular media? Is the nostalgia boom different as a result?

…and the big one,

  • What if George Lucas works with Coppola on his big Vietnam War movie? I find a Lucas-influenced or Lucas-edited Apocalypse Now a fascinating idea.

Also, pitching Star Wars in this different universe - would it ever get off the ground or was it purely a product of its temporal and locational context?

Post
#1491341
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

DrDre said:
Additionally, having characters continually survive what should be lethal injuries lowers the stakes, because apparently any character can just be killed or survive based on the writer’s whims rather than pre-established rules of the universe.

I guess one could use the Dragon Ball Z defense for resurrecting characters, but even that manga/anime tried to stick to its own rules about the powers of the different sets of dragon balls/not using the same balls to resurrect characters twice (as of the Cell Saga, at least - it’s been years since I paid attention to the mess of kudzu that is the Buu Saga).

If Reva lost her legs, I’d buy that scene more. She can’t move well, could plausibly survive given the franchise’s rules, and Vader/deformed Grand Inquisitor might consider the job done (since she presumably wouldn’t escape and leaving her to suffer is OK).

Post
#1491332
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

Servii said:

It’s a shame. The one upside I thought we’d get out of Obi-Wan and Vader meeting again would be that we’d finally get to see what Vader meant when he said “Obi-Wan once thought as you do.” That’s something that RotS didn’t address properly, so I figured you might as well address it in this show. It wouldn’t be an ideal solution, but it would be something worthwhile. We still don’t have that moment.

Agreed. That was one of my small but too noticeable issues with the show (aside from doing shaky cam in 2:39:1 and the weird-looking lightsabers). We don’t have any moment of Kenobi thinking that Anakin/Vader could really be redeemed. I guess he kind of tried to reach out to Anakin within Vader, but that’s unclear.

I still think “Your mother once thought as you do” would’ve been a better line in 1983 and in every subsequent edition. Give Padmé/mother Skywalker some kind of lingering presence in Vader’s mind.

Post
#1491331
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

cap said:

RogueLeader said:

The Chosen One thing is something is wish George never explicitly answered.

He said Anakin was the Chosen One, and if you only look at Lucas’s films that makes sense.

It’s more just a PT thing, I find. I guess it does work in all movies if killing the Emperor was all he needed to do, it could work. However, the OT never really says much about old Anakin beyond “good pilot,” “good friend,” and “good at being a warrior.” He’s decidedly not a chosen one there.

The Paul Atreides comparison, of Anakin being a false messiah (committing atrocities through their power, generated from their charisma and natural warrior skills), can kind of fit within the PT and OT. I kind of prefer this interpretation, of a false messiah turning into a proper one once all was said and done.

If one views Luke or Rey as the extension of Anakin’s deeds, then he could still be a proper chosen one. Also, nothing about the prophecy says that balance had to be permanent.

But the only thing Anakin did to fulfill that role was kill the Emperor, and since TROS revealed that he did not actually kill the Emperor, he can’t be the Chosen One. It must be Rey.

This is why I like the ghosts at the end of Ascendant (Palpatine and Nobody versions) - Anakin still helps finish the job and it would have been impossible without his deeds in life.

Post
#1491088
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

theprequelsrule said:

Still…I really want Star Wars to stop. Please make it stop.

You could always do edibles while watching the Jodorowsky’s Dune documentary. I think the resulting brain mixup will result in forgetting that Star Wars ever existed and being surprised that Paul Atreides is an explicit false messiah in Herbert’s work.

Which reminds me, is Anakin unintentionally a half-decent emulation of Herbert’s Paul Atreides through the PT and Clone Wars (a false messiah)?

Post
#1490988
Topic
Original Trilogy vs Kenobi: inconsistencies and stretches between | Plus in-series issues
Time

RogueLeader said:

BedeHistory731 said:

I have a good video here, by one of the only good Star Wars YouTubers:

No, the Obi-Wan Kenobi Series Doesn’t Contradict A New Hope by Star Wars Explained.

I always appreciate Alex for not making the typical clickbait videos that other Star Wars YouTubers make.

In a sea of crap like Mauler, Star Wars Elseworlds, Geeks+Gamers, and Mike Zeroh; guys like Alex, Eckhardt’s Ladder, HelloGreedo, and Cosmonaut Variety Hour are shining beacons of light.

Post
#1490980
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

Fan_edit_fan said:

When three out of four people disagree it’s not “dogpiling”…you’re being too sensitive for a critical debate.

I’m not being too sensitive. Also, is it really a critical debate when three of four participants agree? Three against one seems like a dogpile to me.

Are we not allowed to like this show here without being reminded about how “wrong” we are for liking an admittedly flawed show? You can like this show without being dismissively referred to as a “fanboy,” right?

Post
#1490950
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

Fan_edit_fan said:

BedeHistory731 said:

Fan_edit_fan said:

yotsuya said:

adywan said:

I find it so hard to understand how people can defend the writing on this series and say that it’s well made. In episodes 5 & 6 they used the exact same scenario. What’s worse is that, if you watch these two episodes one after another, this blatant repeating happens within about 15 minutes.

Episode 5: They are in danger with a technical problem stopping them from being able to escape. Obi-Wan decides to sacrifice himself so that the others can escape because he knows it’s him that Vader wants, not them. Obi-Wan goes to Haja and asks him to take care of Leia. Roka tries to talk him out of it but Obi-Wan leaves.

Approx 15 minutes later…

Episode 6: They are in danger with a technical problem stopping them from being able to escape. Obi-Wan decides to sacrifice himself so that the others can escape because he knows it’s him that Vader wants, not them. Obi-Wan goes to Haja and asks him to take care of Leia. Roka tries to talk him out of it but Obi-Wan leaves.

And i bet Qui-Gon is mighty pissed because , in this show, you can get skewered with a lightsaber in the stomach and through the spine and live.

And then there is the final Obi/ Vader fight. It’s set out right from the start of that duel that Obi_wan is prepared to kill vader. “Have you come to destroy me Obi_wan?”. “I will do what i must”. But then lets him live, even after he knows that the person who was once his friend has gone and all that is left is a monster. I know Vader has to survive because of ANH, but doing it this way is ridiculous.

Your summary is over simplistic. I’m sure there are similarities, but it is not the exact same situation. For one thing, the first time Kenobi is just going to delay and fully intends to return (but you never know). The second time he is leaving and knows he won’t rejoin them. The reaction of those around him is different and the story plays out different. There is a ghost of a similarity between the two incidents and you are focusing on that rather than the whole picture.

Also, getting stabbed in the gut can lead to instant death or a recoverable injury depending on where it was and how it was delivered. Qui-gon was stabbed (very clearly) through the middle of his gut. Severing his main artery and vein and possibly severing his spine and damaging the organs in front. He was human after all. We don’t see where Reva gets stabbed. In the gut, but just how is not shown. Same with the grand inquisitor (but he is not human so we don’t know what internal damage he might have sustained). Maul is cut in half, but other than an instant spray of blood, there is no blood. So whatever was cut was sealed. So he could have lived (with some help). He also isn’t human so we don’t know his internal organ arrangement to know what was cut off. Reva is clearly still wounded when she gets to Tatooine. So all the wounds are not the same so expecting the same outcome is unrealistic.

I found the series to be well written with care given to filling in the gaps between the PT and OT. It fixed more than it broke and put a new spin on certain events. I found the acting to be superb, the sets to be what I’d expect, the backgrounds fitting, and everything assembled into a nicely finished series. I don’t know that I would change a thing about it, though I wouldn’t mind seeing a film edit of it. Something a little faster paced.

Good grief man…every time.

No need to rag on a guy for providing justifications. I’ve found his posts insightful, even if I disagree at times.

They want to love every bit of the product and combat any actual justified criticisms…stretching logic further. Not “ragging” on em…just blows me away how they can’t understand the flaws. It’s like constantly saying “No it’s super smart, you just don’t get it”.

They do understand the flaws that you see and have tried to explain them logically and soundly. If you feel like you’re being talked down to by them, or they’re acting like an idiot, that’s entirely on you. Can’t they have their own interpretation without people like you leaping down their throats?

Post
#1490933
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

Fan_edit_fan said:

yotsuya said:

adywan said:

I find it so hard to understand how people can defend the writing on this series and say that it’s well made. In episodes 5 & 6 they used the exact same scenario. What’s worse is that, if you watch these two episodes one after another, this blatant repeating happens within about 15 minutes.

Episode 5: They are in danger with a technical problem stopping them from being able to escape. Obi-Wan decides to sacrifice himself so that the others can escape because he knows it’s him that Vader wants, not them. Obi-Wan goes to Haja and asks him to take care of Leia. Roka tries to talk him out of it but Obi-Wan leaves.

Approx 15 minutes later…

Episode 6: They are in danger with a technical problem stopping them from being able to escape. Obi-Wan decides to sacrifice himself so that the others can escape because he knows it’s him that Vader wants, not them. Obi-Wan goes to Haja and asks him to take care of Leia. Roka tries to talk him out of it but Obi-Wan leaves.

And i bet Qui-Gon is mighty pissed because , in this show, you can get skewered with a lightsaber in the stomach and through the spine and live.

And then there is the final Obi/ Vader fight. It’s set out right from the start of that duel that Obi_wan is prepared to kill vader. “Have you come to destroy me Obi_wan?”. “I will do what i must”. But then lets him live, even after he knows that the person who was once his friend has gone and all that is left is a monster. I know Vader has to survive because of ANH, but doing it this way is ridiculous.

Your summary is over simplistic. I’m sure there are similarities, but it is not the exact same situation. For one thing, the first time Kenobi is just going to delay and fully intends to return (but you never know). The second time he is leaving and knows he won’t rejoin them. The reaction of those around him is different and the story plays out different. There is a ghost of a similarity between the two incidents and you are focusing on that rather than the whole picture.

Also, getting stabbed in the gut can lead to instant death or a recoverable injury depending on where it was and how it was delivered. Qui-gon was stabbed (very clearly) through the middle of his gut. Severing his main artery and vein and possibly severing his spine and damaging the organs in front. He was human after all. We don’t see where Reva gets stabbed. In the gut, but just how is not shown. Same with the grand inquisitor (but he is not human so we don’t know what internal damage he might have sustained). Maul is cut in half, but other than an instant spray of blood, there is no blood. So whatever was cut was sealed. So he could have lived (with some help). He also isn’t human so we don’t know his internal organ arrangement to know what was cut off. Reva is clearly still wounded when she gets to Tatooine. So all the wounds are not the same so expecting the same outcome is unrealistic.

I found the series to be well written with care given to filling in the gaps between the PT and OT. It fixed more than it broke and put a new spin on certain events. I found the acting to be superb, the sets to be what I’d expect, the backgrounds fitting, and everything assembled into a nicely finished series. I don’t know that I would change a thing about it, though I wouldn’t mind seeing a film edit of it. Something a little faster paced.

Good grief man…every time.

No need to rag on a guy for providing justifications. I’ve found his posts insightful, even if I disagree at times.

Post
#1490577
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

Kaweebo said:

BedeHistory731 said:

I’d say we had it right in the post-PT years with the discrediting and any attempts at revisionism have been straight-up apologia.

Plinkett was right and continues to be more and more right (minus the cringey sketch bits and “dark humor” in the videos).

Well, except the part where he vouched for JJ Abrams to direct the Star Wars sequel trilogy :p

It did give us an excellent illustration of Gen X directors interpreting the “betrayal” of their childhood franchises by said franchises’ boomer creators. His two films fit in well with things like Fanboys, The People vs. George Lucas, both recent Ghostbusters movies, and Galaxy Quest - they’re more interesting as examinations of Gen X’s relation to fandom culture/parasocial relationships with creators than they are good movies. Except Galaxy Quest, which is an all-time classic.

I’d throw Fault in Our Stars in there, but the author relationship plot is more of a background element (and is the least exploitative part of the book/movie).

Post
#1490411
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

henzINNIT said:

MalaStrana#2 said:

FrederikOlsen said:
It’s never been a particularly well-written franchise, IMO.

ANH is considered one of the best scripts ever written. It’s still being studied in film school for ts achievements, thanks to Lucas rewitting it to perfect it numberous times. TESB is simply the continuation of this high quality standard rooted in the foundation of a perfect script. Only what came after wasn’t as good and was sometimes even quite terrible, such as this tv show.

The original Star Wars was saved in editing by cutting great chunks out of that script.

Speaking of esoteric scripts, I wish somebody adapted Dan Aykroyd’s original Ghostbusters script into a graphic novel. The bits we do know about it sound batshit crazy (in a good way) and I’d love to see the whole thing presented to the public with appropriate visuals.

I’m one of like, fifteen people who like Nothing But Trouble so I’d love any crazy Dan Aykroyd project.

Sausage

Post
#1490407
Topic
General Star Wars <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> Thread
Time

I like the idea of Vader essentially being an upper management figure in the Empire, going from system to system and making sure shit is running up to code. By ANH, he’s so bored out of his mind about his position that he relishes the thought of finding the rebel who destroyed the Death Star (now that Kenobi is in his rearview). Luke being his son is just a bonus, as for the first time since the Clone Wars, Vader has felt truly alive.

Yes, I watched the auralnauts series and I consider it the best fan series about the saga. Now if only Creepio’s voice actor could voice 000…

Post
#1490274
Topic
KENOBI: A STAR WARS STORY [RELEASED] [5.1 Surround]
Time

NFBisms said:

This is something I put together in the other Kenobi redux thread, just in case it could be relevant to this project in some way:

NFBisms said:

I was one of those suckers who was actually really excited for Obi-Wan Kenobi (2022) because Deborah Chow and Kelley DIxon’s work on Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad fuckin’ rule. Needless to say, that was a bit misguided.

So I took a crack at editing the show to be closer in tone and style to what I expected out of BB-verse alumni.

I don’t think I’m going to do the whole show, but it was just a fun little experiment. The edit isn’t supposed to be like BB/BCS fwiw, just approaching the material with some of the storytelling philosophy I learned from them.

At the very least, Deborah Chow’s sensibilities as a director were still conducive to being arranged in this way so at least some of my excitement wasn’t unfounded

Well, I’d say you nailed it here! It’d be nice when paired with your New Canon Cut (I still see it as the definitive ROTS).

Post
#1490175
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

I’ve been burnt out on live-action fiction (especially new tv fiction) since college, so I mostly stick to documentaries. Things like Dark Side of the Ring, the less-sensationalized true crime stuff on Netflix, and YouTube features on music/random topics (I recommend Down the Rabbit Hole and Atrocity Guide) are my favorites.

I don’t think I’m the target audience, but Kenobi as it aired was a 75/100 to me. Fine, but I’d never seek it out again. A fan edit could bring it to an 85 or an 87, but I wouldn’t give it more.