I’m so glad you gave us an update! The anticipation for the 50th is immense.
Since I’ve been thinking about JEJ’s Vader voice in SW’77 recently (after rewatching Adywan’s attempts to match it up to ESB and ROTJ). Are you intending to keep the original distortion effects on the voice or will you try to improve upon the post-‘04 mix’s filters?
The prequel CGI argument is just lame and hangs on the “the prequels were underrated” meme culture of the last decade. Even if there were a lot of real models and sets, the green screening and CG quality were still glaring problems, especially in parts of episodes 1 and 2. Most of the practical effects in the original trilogy still hold up better. No disrespect to the visual effects artists who worked on the CG. And at the very least, they were artists who had to actually do the work and adapt real concept art.
The CGI artists were also subject to horrific crunch conditions for at least AOTC. I guess it was a pioneering movie in other, more depressing ways.
An Imax DMR blowup of Star Wars 1977 how is that even handled.
Simple! You filmout the digital restoration DI (with appropriate black bars for AR) on IMAX 70mm.
I’ve come to understand the fundamental divide between those hating on AI and those willing to use it: the former believes that you need to practice enough to earn the ability to express yourself in a sophisticated medium. Often at the cost of some suffering, and such that the majority of people are excluded.
Suffering isn’t a part of it at all. It can be, but it’s no more suffering than learning can be.
And the latter believes that everybody, almost as a human right, has a message that is worth sharing with everyone no matter the means, but within reason.
I think you mean “creatives who actually worked and deserve to earn a living from it can be screwed,” but you’ll couch it in the language of accessibility. The means do matter, because in a capitalistic society, our learned abilities generally are the way we make money and live.
I’m firmly in that camp. It makes sense that most artists would be in the first, because they’ve already invested so much of their time, effort, and resources into their craft. It would hurt for all of that to eventually be for naught (though you would never admit that).
It would hurt and hurt others who want to learn and want to intellectually engage. Just having some slop machine make what you want is legitimately anti-intellectual. Anti-intellectualism, need I remind you, is one of the plagues that has created so much suffering in the world.
So I can’t really fault you for having an anti-AI position. I empathize with you in that way. The only thing I can fault you for is when you take out that pain on others for simply expressing themselves in a way that you find abhorrent for personal reasons.
I’ll tell anybody “expressing themselves” in an offensive manner to go pound sand.
So, likewise, I would kindly ask that you keep that hatred to yourself. And if you don’t, I would take it back, and consider you an ignorant person.
I’m not taking that hatred back. The world would be a much better place if we treated AI with disdain. Besides, it’s not real hatred on the level of racism or transphobia or ableism. Trying to equate anti-AI sentiment with ableism is dishonest and disregards how disabled people will make efforts without AI to see their ideas manifest.
Though to concede one point, I’m ok with less generative stuff like sound isolation and some upscaling. The upscaling often looks terrible though, having ruined the last few Doctor Who Collection boxsets (we would be better off if companies beyond discotek did SD-blu ray).
That’s my final bit. I don’t much care for generative AI and I certainly don’t want it in fanedits.
Ok, name them. Tell me where you’re seeing this and not just fanservice junk. Otherwise, this “user error” is pretty universal.
I recommend these channels:
Star Wars Chronicles
Latent Diffusion
Genuinely vomit-inducing, even from the thumbnails. I can’t understand how you see any appeal in this.
The difference with those is that even if they borrow extensively from source material, it’s clear that they’re putting their own spin on things. Real artists do this all the time. John Williams’ score for the original Star Wars is extremely derivative of Gustav Holst. Please watch this video.
Williams still had to physically write the music down, check to see if it was how he wanted it, have humans who were paid money to play it and mix it, etc.
Then learn how to write, how to draw, how to create things without AI. It’s that simple.
I was fortunate enough to be born with the ability to write well. Articulating my thoughts in a clear and concise way comes naturally to me. I know plenty of people that, try as they might, are simply not skilled in this way. Some even have disabilities like dyslexia. It really isn’t “that simple”. Drawing, for instance, was something I’ve tried to get good at as a young person. But even if I kept practicing, that didn’t mean I would ever turn out to be the next Leonardo da Vinci. Lots of these things are just genetic. These things might come naturally to you, and you’re blessed to be able to say that. But you have to understand that this makes you sound like a very ignorant person. I’m not calling you that, I just wanted you to be aware.
No, I don’t sound ignorant at all. Even the most incompetent of human-made art is better than anything AI could dream of creating. I’d rather see crayon scribbles or awkwardly-written trash than something a few prompts drew up.
It makes garbage and that’s all the users will ever get from it. Trying to couch it in the language of financial privilege is a filthy tactic, given how AI has destroyed so many financial privileges for many.
Once again, this technology is still in its infancy. Trying to punch it while its at its lowest point feels like a filthy tactic to me.
Infancy shminfancy. This is tech producing what it will always produce.
All I meant by the financial side of things is that, for the longest time, Hollywood has had a stranglehold on the types of stories that can be developed because the barrier to entry to make a movie is so incredibly high. You need to have connections to a corporation in order to make a huge project like that. Or, if you want to use military equipment, suddenly the US government gets to say what does or doesn’t go in your movie. As a result, there are plenty of folks that feel the kinds of narratives they want to see are not being developed. And I don’t mean that in a political sense necessarily, moreso that they’d like to see storytelling prioritized over any particular agenda. It’s the same issue that George ran into when trying to develop his movies, and it’s why he hated Hollywood (and they hated him in return). It’s why it’s exciting to see new directors like Curry Barker somehow able to make it mainstream despite the odds.
Curry is an exception and I’m sure he never would’ve never developed as a creator with AI just letting him lazily dump fanwank online. You also assume that we have to turn to Hollywood to make the stories we want, when we can always just write them down ourselves or illustrate them and put them online. Fucking Ready Player One of all things has more merit than the slop, because at least its creator wrote stuff for real.
This isn’t mythmaking, it’s fanwank. But unlike the best Rule 34 you’ll find online, it was made without any real skills or passion. You can try to dress it up all you want or try to add nuance, but it’s all deflection. You so deep in this hole that I know I’m wasting my time, but I just want to get my points out there.
I don’t feel like I’m in a hole. This is authentically what I believe. I too realize that this is a waste of time but I want to get my points out there so people don’t truly believe that I’m out here mindlessly shilling for AI corporations.
I firmly believe it’s your opinion too and we reserve the right to disagree with you.
But people don’t want to wake up to reality at all, I guess. Whatever. Your loss.
We know the reality and we don’t tolerate it. That’s the nature of it and if people don’t like you for shoving AI in their faces, read the room and follow accordingly. Having fewer slop merchants among us is our gain.
I don’t understand why would you use a quote from George when he’s literally gone on record to state that he supports AI in film. All you’ve done is taken another one of his quotes out of context and placed your own subjective feelings regarding AI on top of it.
Fair.
I would say that your argument is boiling down to the fact that you don’t like the way AI has been used. Yes, most of what’s available on the internet right now AI-wise doesn’t have a lot of thought put into it. Most of it is fan-service. But that’s to be expected with how universally accessible it is. In other words, it’s user error, not the tool’s fault. Believe it or not, people do want engaging and challenging narratives. It’s 100% possible to create those and then use AI in order to illustrate them. And I would expect those to become among the most popular projects.
Ok, name them. Tell me where you’re seeing this and not just fanservice junk. Otherwise, this “user error” is pretty universal.
I can use that quote from George right back at you with my own subjective opinion. “Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else.” I’m sure there are tons of people out there that would love to have the opportunity to share their own understanding of what Star Wars means to them, but they don’t have the skills or capacity in order to make that story heard.
Then learn how to write, how to draw, how to create things without AI. It’s that simple.
AI is the tool that can allow more people to give a piece of themselves in a more digestible format. In other words, it can make mythmaking less dependent on technical or financial privilege. It gives more people the ability to translate their understanding of a story into a form others can receive. In that sense, it can turn interpretation into an act of giving.
It makes garbage and that’s all the users will ever get from it. Trying to couch it in the language of financial privilege is a filthy tactic, given how AI has destroyed so many financial privileges for many.
This isn’t mythmaking, it’s fanwank. But unlike the best Rule 34 you’ll find online, it was made without any real skills or passion. You can try to dress it up all you want or try to add nuance, but it’s all deflection. You so deep in this hole that I know I’m wasting my time, but I just want to get my points out there.
I will never support a fanedit or fanfilm that uses generative AI. There’s an excellent essay on the Star Wars slop plague, I recommend it.
Only I’d take it a step further. I’m hoping this all leads toward the myth going back to how it was when it was spread by word - having different endings and beats depending on who is presenting it. The myth will be democratized in that way, with the most popular versions in a society becoming what people want to watch.
In other words, a bunch of anti-intellectual slop only designed to give people what they want. No challenging narratives, no unexpected occurrences, just slop that rots your brain.
I gotta quote George here:
Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.
I know he had pro-AI points later, but we all contain multitudes and shifting opinions.
All the AI tools do is pleasure. No creative joy, just stimulation of the pleasure centers in utter hollowness. If you want what you describe, go to AO3 and see all the human-written fanfic, the ai-free fan films on YouTube, or all the hand-drawn and computer-rendered (not AI) art throughout the web. See people trying to become better at craft, not surrendering to the prompts.
Besides, an OOT release would be the perfect base to do a “Respecialized” with the 2012/19 master. You just need to regrain/regrade the SE shots, do some minor adjustments with one of the 4K97 prints (for ‘97 exclusive shots), and sync up the 5.1 mix.
I’ll wait until its streamable.
A theatrical cut restoration teaser would’ve been the perfect promotional tool for this giant pile of meh.
I’d like that too! Though I wonder how relevant it will be when (or if) the 50th releases come out on 4K/BD…
Considering that would mean Ady using it as a source instead.
It’d be very relevant for anybody wanting SE material to reintegrate.
What is the content of the image that confirms restoration? Any chance you can post it here.
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/18c49X5zqc/?mibextid=wwXIfr
Interesting, along with Star Wars and ESB it appears they’re restoring the theatrical (Touchstone) cut of Nightmare Before Christmas too.
Didn’t Disney do a really good 4K of the movie? What’s different about the Touchstone cut?
I do wonder if we’ll get a recreation of the original trailer or an entirely-new trailer for SW’77.
I say Star Wars ‘77 or SW77 when referring to the theatrical cut and ANH when talking about the SE or fan edits.
This seems to be a theme, because it’s present in the Time Traveling revisionist thread. It’s full of bad sources, incorrect information, and tons of examples that have little to do with the supposed point of the thread. When this has been pointed out, rather than remove it or update the thread, he’s tended to double down.
Hey, at least he’s not spamming us with his roughly six or seven sock accounts anymore!
Anybody want to pick apart the time-traveling revisionist thread?
Changing up the distortion on Vader’s voice in ANH to better match TESB and ROTJ is easily my favorite '04 DVD-onward change. The original is just a bit too overdone for my liking.
Absolutely true - it was flipped for a good reason. Maybe it would be possible to keep this flip if the sandcrawler was flipped too?
I hope they hire Mike Matessino and Neil S Bulk to do the John Williams scores. That would be a dream. But It won’t happen.
I hope Neil gets to do the TSWLM soundtrack one day. It’s never gotten a proper release and his work on the La La Land Bond soundtracks is amazing.
OK, I’ll back off.
Back to the PT - I find that II and III look much better after a regrade.
To bring in a little more controversy (since apparently my posts rile people up for entertainment value and generate performative “who cares” posts from people who clearly care), Luke is the “Ghost of Kyiv” from early 2022.
Eh, I really don’t care and I find it amusing that you put so much effort into this.
What kind of insane freak would talk about Star Wars on a Star Wars forum? In a thread asking for thoughts about Star Wars no less. Wild stuff. Better make a snarky comment that adds nothing like a redditor
I’m more just poking fun at your arguments and demeanor, because you seem to take yourself way too seriously. As Lucas himself said, these are movies for 12 year old boys and aren’t that serious.
To bring in a little more controversy (since apparently my posts rile people up for entertainment value and generate performative “who cares” posts from people who clearly care), Luke is the “Ghost of Kyiv” from early 2022.
Eh, I really don’t care and I find it amusing that you put so much effort into this.
I wasn’t talking about you.
But I’m questioning why it matters that other people think these things about it.
Because it shows how the prequels failed to communicate the story, and why their legacy continues to make the setting worse. This mainstream interpretation of events is directly responsible for The Last Jedi and The Acolyte and lots of other bad EU stories, and like I’ve been saying, retroactively damages the original trilogy. I think it has some real life consequences as well but I won’t get into that.
They were meant for DVD. Why Lucas thought they were good enough for Blu-Ray, I really have no explanation. Not to mention further changes. And fixes.
Just to think even the 2020 UHD only happened because of the 3D release that was cancelled and those scans.
We had the same HD master on DVD, HDTV, and Blu-Ray for what 15 or 16 years.
John Lowry literally said that when the Blu-Rays would come out, Lucas would most likely come back for a better restoration… That never happened.
Given that the blu-ray came out in 2011 and the Reliance master (for 3D) was completed the following year, I’m thinking the Reliance master was supposed to be on the blu-ray, but got delayed (hence implementing the changes meant for the 3D release on the old master).
I do recall she got a shot at Vader in Splinter of the Mind’s Eye but I don’t remember if it was handled well.
Splinter is generally a strange artifact of the pre-ESB expanded universe. It’s very entrenched in a ‘70s kind of sci-fi writing and none of the core stuff ESB established is anywhere near Foster’s mind. It also has Vader’s defeat coming from him tripping over his own severed arm, so that’s kind of a weird moment.
I like his movies but this is just a loser opinion. People that think this way don’t understand that it’s supposed to have mythological and spiritual qualities. It’s unsurprising that he put the overly simplistic interpretation of Dune into his Dune part 2 movie.
I mean, he got closer that Jodorowsky would’ve done.
I still believe I would’ve like Jodorowsky’s Dune over Villeneuve’s, regardless of “closeness”. Villeneuve’s Dune strikes me as a soulless made-by-committee corporate product.
Oh absolutely. Even the low-budget Sci-Fi Channel miniseries has more charm than the new Dune movies.
I like his movies but this is just a loser opinion. People that think this way don’t understand that it’s supposed to have mythological and spiritual qualities. It’s unsurprising that he put the overly simplistic interpretation of Dune into his Dune part 2 movie.
I mean, he got closer that Jodorowsky would’ve done.