Anakin Starkiller said:
The PT was never meant to be seen before the OT.
While it does very much show in the finished product, I wonder if there are any primary sources backing up that notion during the prequels’ production.
Let’s just say Cobb Vanth removed the voice-altering settings from the OOT/Revisited.
One what does that mean.^^
Did you watch the premiere of this season of The Mandalorian? If not, Fett’s armor fell into new hands. The guy who owned it then, Cobb Vanth, might have tweaked the helmet’s voice modulation settings. That would explain the difference in voices.
Let’s just say Cobb Vanth removed the voice-altering settings from the OOT/Revisited.
The BCS example may not have been the best (since Walt never appears), but it is one of the few prequels that actually enhances the work instead of being terrible. We get a better understanding of the fictional world and just about every character outside of Walt’s family. Heck, it can reframe both shows as Jimmy McGill’s rise and fall through three key figures (Chuck McGill, Lalo Salamanca, and Walt).
I much preferred getting some actual answers on how the Empire rose and Anakin became Darth Vader.
As would I, but I’d prefer if episode order worked and we saw Anakin’s fall without knowing that he’s Vader. Give Obi-Wan a second (also fallen) pupil, maybe turn Vader into a name carried by multiple Sith apprentices, etc. there were ways to show Anakin’s fall while preserving the twists. However, by making the PT with the assumption that you’ve seen the OT, they aren’t nearly as enjoyable.
Heck, Yoda not appearing in the PT would be an excellent way to play with expectations of OT fans. Knowing who Yoda is makes his exile from the order more emotionally powerful. What could’ve happened to make the Jedi exile the wise Yoda? Well, look at Windu and the state of the order. Having other twists like that for a release order viewing would be fantastic, while preserving the validity of episode order.
I’d prefer an episode-order experience without spoilers for the OT. I’m sorry, but I’d prefer it if they worked in episode-order fashion, if only because release order just makes one disappointed more than anything. Granted, my order is the last 30 minutes of R1-ANH-ESB-ROTJ-Good episodes of TCW and Rebels-TLJ, but that’s my approach.
Better Call Saul would be my ideal model for a prequel. Watching Better Call Saul first doesn’t totally spoil the other show (aside from us knowing more about Mike, Gus, and Saul/Jimmy/Gene - but nothing that’s an immersion-breaking spoiler). Heck, the experience of Breaking Bad gets enhanced by BCS (i.e., Walt seems more powerful/lucky in his actions). I never get that with the PT. If the prequels had taken the Better Call Saul approach in regards to “spoilers,” “assumptions,” and “keeping things consistent,” I’d have preferred that.
Imagine thinking that Yoda just not ever involving himself into anything is more interesting. That would definitely make him quite hypocritical when he says “Do, or do not, there is no try”. He doesn’t say, “You’re better off just watching everything bad happen from a distance and not do anything about it.” Him knowing Anakin more personally is way more impactful and makes for a better narrative, instead of him just sitting out as the entire galaxy goes to shit. Like wow, what a great hero.
Well then, maybe it should be that he can’t go back, because he’d be arrested and killed if he ever returned (either by the Jedi or by the Republic/Empire). He wanted to go back and help, but he knew the Jedi wouldn’t accept his help and that he could not face these threats head-on. Maybe he’s a bit more pragmatic, seeing a frontal assault on the Emperor as a terrible idea. If he falls, there are few-to-no options left.
He doesn’t really need to know Anakin either, since he has clairvoyant abilities that he’s honed over a long lifespan. He can pick up the gist of what happens through his remaining connections to the Jedi (i.e., Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and the people who exiled him).
It’s not the EU that “rehabilitated” them, he just learned between the movies. It’s established in Revenge of the Sith that he became Qui-Gon’s apprentice, it doesn’t take much to realize that the change in his character between the prequels and the originals was because his perspective changed during his exile. There’s not even any EU stuff that covers what Yoda did between ROTS and ESB. Guess who also had character development between films? Luke, between ESB and ROTJ.
True, but I think it enhances Yoda’s stock as a character if he wasn’t a part of the Jedi during the Clone Wars or during the fall of the Jedi. He’s an “alternate path” for Luke, a contrast to Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan tried to work within the crumbling Jedi system and screwed up, while Yoda’s teachings cannot provide the full story. Therefore, Luke takes the third option - his own interpretations of his masters’ lessons combined with his life experiences.
He didn’t say “Don’t underestimate the Emperor’s ability to manipulate people”, he said “The powers of the Emperor.” It’s a clear foreshadowing to his force lightning anyway, as the moment Luke lets his guard down and underestimates the Emperor, he gets attacked by force lightning. Force lightning is the payoff to all the talk of the Emperor being someone you don’t underestimate. And Yoda knew this, because force lightning was how he lost.
It could also be that he read about that power and knows that powerful Sith lords can use it. He could have seen it through the Force or dealt with a dark side pupil that tried to adopt this ability. He doesn’t need first-hand knowledge.
While the force is still very spiritual in the prequels, the overall quality of the fights and styles of combat in AOTC and ROTS really lose me. It just feels a lot more “fake,” in a way that I can’t really articulate. I get the whole “Jedi at the height of their power” thing, but the fighting doesn’t nearly have the same emotional resonance (IMHO) as it did in the OT or ST (or even the animated shows).
I also maintain that the biggest flaw with the prequels is a fundamental one: they were made with the assumption that people have seen the OT. Getting them to work in episode order requires writing them with the assumption that nobody has seen the OT.
I’d argue that Yoda should never have appeared in the PT. Establishing that he was exiled from the order in TPM would’ve been a nice subversion, demonstrating how far the Jedi had fallen since its “golden days.”
Maybe, but he’s previously said he wants to release ANHRHD & ROTJR simultaneously. Being able to release them as a 3-pack would make sense.
Given how long ROTJ:R will take, maybe it would be better to release them as they’re completed. At the very least, it’d be nice to have the cleaned-up ROTJ as its own release.
Count Dooku using Sith lightning ruined the prestige.
I agree. That should have been an extra-high ability power unique to The Emperor.
Speaking as an A:TLA fan, I’m glad the show limited lightning bending to just Azula and Ozai (i.e., two royal family members who were bending prodigies). Korra did away with that limit (while the Kyoshi novels made it even rarer than the A:TLA). Still, it’s more understandable than making Sith Lightning so widespread.
Also, Ady is keeping the Shaw ghost. It’d be weird to switch unmasked Vader but keep the Shaw ghost. Either do a “Prowse ghost” (which probably isn’t possible with extant footage) or keep it Shaw.
There are good reasons why fan edits aim to shorten the first third of the movie.
When we look at the model shots kept in the SE, they have far better camera work, shot composition, and motion than the shots replaced in the SE. Granted, there are a few shots that are better in the OOT (e.g., the X-Wings’ descent and Luke emerging from the smoke), but I think improving the shots within the confines of '77’s shot styling would be best.
A lot of the shots from '97 show their age and their limitation (e.g., every X-Wing is Red 2, the overly-fluid motion in the S-foils and arrival shots, and the mere graphical limits of '90s CGI models). Replacing them with CGI or models that better mimic what was done in '77 would be best.
To truly get that “degenerate” vibe, intercut some hardcore STAR WARS porn scenes into the Jabba’s palace and sail barge scenes. Gotta have some sex scenes in there to go with the drunken revellers.
Ah, the Guccione’s Caligula route!
My suggestion would be to add that movie’s Lawnmower of Death to Jabba’s Palace. It’s way more effective than the Sarlacc.
Agreed. The shots that got replaced in the SE are some of the least good shots in the movie. Admittedly, the CGI models needed better textures to blend with the model shots (e.g., matching the paint on the models) and motion that fit with ROTJ-period effects, but the original shots are the weakest in the movie.
This is looking fantastic! Best of luck powering through the rotoscoping.
Would you possibly make a grained/color-corrected version of the 2019/20 blu, once the process is done?
What’s wrong with the romance between Han and Leia? Their back and forth banter is one of the oft-cited strengths of the film, and I agree. Their chemistry on screen is really fun and engaging.
It’s basically the “boy sexually harasses girl until she gives in” storyline.
It hasn’t aged well that’s for sure. In fact, Harrison Ford movies from the eighties haven’t aged well, as explained in this video: Predatory Romance in Harrison Ford Movies
Agreed. I’m not sure I’d go that far, but it’s a bit more uncomfortable these days than it would be in the ‘80s. This Pop Culture Detective guy has many a good point, folks.
I’m just waiting for the Bad Taste, Meet the Feebles, and Dead Alive/Brain Dead restorations. Jackson’s edgelord phase produced some fantastic films.
Damn, that sounds like a daunting task. I really appreciate how thorough you’re being with this whole endeavor, correcting the transfer’s many errors and getting the movie looking like the 4K83 print (I’m assuming you’re using the ungraded version, not Sanjuro or Dre’s shot-by-shot/reel-by-reel ones). I’m liking the preview screenshots thus far. Fantastic work!
Anakin Starkiller said:
Also, she should’ve died on Malachor. Her existing past RotJ as Ahsoka the White feels contrived and fanservicey.
I do agree with this. Vader killing her is powerful and they never should’ve taken that away.
I firmly agree there. Heck, outside of the Maul episodes and Ahsoka’s fight with Vader, I try to ignore Rebels. It doesn’t have much to offer the current EU.
Adywan did fantastic work in making the Cloud City windows/backgrounds consistent in his edit. His work is my go-to version of ESB and it’s an excellent demonstration of how the SE’s should have been (i.e., fixing legit errors, improving visual effects, and not compromising the flow of the movie).
Yeah, the idea that it’s impossible to restore the original versions is patently absurd. Movies where the negative no longer exists in any form have been restored to excellent levels of quality. There’s plenty of source material to use.
It’s not like it’s on silver nitrate or went through a fire. The archives have a bunch of material for a proper restoration. Also, it’s probably better for TESB and ROTJ than SW, from a film quality perspective.
Anakin Starkiller said:
Yeah, except Qui-Gon’s, since he’s rebellious. It’s not so much about making Luke’s saber unique as it is being more aesthetically pleasing and thematically appropriate.
Agreed. Heck, adding a line about how Qui-Gon is not really a part of the order anymore would help to add gravitas to his green blade. Since Luke is a Jedi outside of the order as well, it makes sense that he would carry on Qui-Gon’s legacy.
I also like some of the knights/masters division. I’d prefer if the whole order used blue, except for the masters of the council using purple. It highlights how “royal” they are, in comparison to the other members. Obi-Wan would keep his blue blade, out of choice/to thematically separate himself from the council’s issues.
It’s a continuity mess the way the battle has been edited. We have Lando leading Gold group ( but no fighters in Gold group), Red group is the X-wings, Green groups is the A-wings and Grey group is the Y-wings. Blue groups was also in there originally, which were the B-wings. But who the hell is Lando the leader of? In ROTJ:R, the Y-wings return to being Gold group and the B-wings are back as Blue group. Grey group is gone.
Gold squadron was reformed with a mix of different starfighters and the Millennium Falcon.
On screen members are Gold Leader, Lando Calrissian, Gold Four(A-Wing), Jake Farrell, and Gold Nine(Y-Wing), Norra Wexley, flying through the Death Star reactor shaft.
Is that how they tried to explain things in the EU? oh dear. I’m so glad i’m ignoring the EU.
But, my statement still stands. The battle is a mess of continuity, especially where squadron colours/ pilots are concerned. Wedge tells red 2 & 3 to pull in and yet an a-wing (green squadron) replies. We have an Y-wing shooting ties and Wedge congratulating Red 2, even though this same pilot was already identified as Grey Leader at the beginning of the battle. The whole space battle needs sorting
That sounds like a lot of CGI work to get the appropriate ships for these segments. Of course, I’m kind of thinking CGI will be needed to sort out the numerous scaling issues throughout the battle. I appreciate the ambition and the quality of the model effects, but these problems are inevitable when dealing with so many layers of effects.
Broom Kid said:
Even in ESB it’s not really a love triangle, as the only reason she’s kissing Luke like that is to piss off Han. It’s not because she WANTS to kiss Luke (although yes, there’s that deleted scene where she DOES, and then they’re interrupted - but since that’s gone, and Return of the Jedi exists…)
I think it’s possible to go straight from Han saying “Hey, what’s going on?” to Leia saying “Hold me” and the scene works just as well. No argument, Han still looks bewildered by Leia’s reactions without there being a dumb fight in between that highlights a silly plotline that shouldn’t exist, AND you lose some of Carrie Fisher’s absolute worst acting, ever.
You could probably take the “Hey, what’s going on” dialog out of its shot, dub it over the approach Han makes (it’s virtually the same) of him saying “I’m sorry” and just let the scene end like it always did (“Hold me”) The edit would be mostly audio, not video.
Yeah, wiping to the shuttle’s arrival after Luke leaves Leia just feels abrupt. That audio edit sounds like a feasible plan to preserve Han and Leia’s reaction while cutting out the “jealousy” bits.