Nice! So the foot stays the same size at the end?
-Angel
My post contain everything you need i guess :)
-Angel
Ronster said:
Angel, I don't understand computer graphics intergration in Movies or compositing so please can you help me understand what is hard to do and what is easier for my story boarding.
My friend said it's easy to do a still image in photoshop but when it comes to video it is more difficult?
Storyboards is maybe the most important part after the script is done.
They can be vary from styles but specific for movies you can either start from scratch or yes you can take a still image and indicate the action with arrows and text. (like a comic strip)
In video the Storyboard can be more fun to do when you can crude animate the shots in 2d but 3d previz like Aal did :). Its important laying out the shot you want by calculating all the time of the shot, the colors the dialogue and possible additions to it.
In still image yes easier quicker. The video can last a bit longer to make it but even crude can prove an idea and pre vizualise the concept.
The reason I am asking is because when I make any further mock up storyboard suggestions I do not want to be suggesting things that are not possible.... So please can you tell me is my bobba fett mock-up storyboard possible? And have people in mind when I come up with somthing.
Thats the most interesting part. What is done and what is not. First is to see the resources... For example you cant expect have boba fett in an weird angle when the available footage cant give you this opportunity. Or if jango fett from AOTC suits for a shot, the suit differences are are so vast even with recoloring cant make him a good looking boba fett.
Checking continuity to the film quality and light conditions is important intergrading two or more elements into a scene.
Second are the static environments. That means an environment that can be created with not worrying about the motion and perspective changes. This can be a simple patch of hiding something or adding something to a static shot.Most commonly used because they are easy to make but hard to rotoscope(time consuming)
3d Motion tracking shots. This is the tricky one. 3d tracking the shot by excluding the actors and applying on top 3d geometry if needed. Not all the shots from an already filmed movie is possible(lack of trackers and raw material)
New 3d renders and landscapes. What the title says. new shots completely from 3d and post effects. Depends the level of knowledge you have or your budget to hire a small indie studio to make the shot for you ;)
Prop making and prop shooting/photography: Make props replace shots have that original look. Rent some studio equipment and start shooting.
Depends of how far you can you can go with this idea (im not gonna mention actors of live action footage yet because it can get tricky)
I have no idea if my suggestions are either ridiculously difficult or relativley easy so some insight would really help me out or guidlines to keep within for the future. As the mock-ups on the wish list are only stills pretty much, and from what I can gather this is not so easy when putting it onto video.
Taking movie stills is a good start for storyboards. Always notice the camera movement so you know where you can place a new element or you want to replace/rescale the shot to fit somewhere else. Avoid flipped shots unless they are not affecting crusial details from the character.
Is the process similar to photoshopping each frame of the movie or more than that?
I dont thing for expressing or demonstrating an idea should be a top notch quality as an ending result. Photoshoping each frame is the same thing as rotoscoping each frame. That step is the final when the final effects renders and filters come in place in post :)
-Angel
darth_ender said:
I want to make sure we don't lose too much steam on this project, so I guess now would be the time to ask what Angel and Aalenfae are willing to do. I believe Angel created most of the mattes and such on the wishlist. Which of those are you interested in doing? If you were to ask for my preference, I would say all of them! They really are stunning. Aalenfae, what kinds of changes are you able and willing to make? Your CGI mockup looked great as a start, and I'm wondering if you can produce even more realistic ships and the like. Is what we are discussing even fair to ask of you?
What shots do you like? Note that many of the mattes i did were for preview reasons and they have to be created from scratch and to their 4 or 8K format for a film production.
Let me know what shots are you interested in.
-Angel
Just to clear that the clip(the trap video) has not all the window shots wrong. In fact some shots that were dark was brighten up correctly!
If bloom(not glow) could be applied to some of the bright spots would be ideal.
-Angel
Harmy said:
I must say that I don't think making stuff look like it would to a human eye as opposed to how it would show through a camera is a good idea. Your brain knows that you're watching a movie and even if you're not consciously aware of the way camera lenses behave, having seen many movies, your brain just knows and it can spot things like that as looking fake within the realm of watching a film. So I'm with Angel on this one.
Good points :)
Its always good to separate the eye from the lens. All VFX artists based on how it looks through a lens (calculating details colors depth etc)
No worries Benja ;)
-Angel
That doesnt prove anything but thanks for the joke ;) (lame poster) It doesnt have to do with realism but with lens behaviour. in defence that most of us like the "original look".
We all know that ady is well awared of cinematography and how a lens works.
Unless he wants to create his own sureal revisited look that fits to his tastes then im ok. I doupt tho because he aims for realism.
-Angel
Sure why not. But if this just to justify the fake look of the shot, it just doenst fit.
While its an expressive art, finding ways of showing realistic as possible the shots-the ending result and not finding excuses for hiding errors and fake looks.
If the glass is tinted then it has to have some short of tint. Visually you have to show things when you cant or dont need to explain them.
It would be shame the hard work from ady in this shot be hidden under a not polished final look.
-Angel
I believe in the last pic that ady posted there is a small room for improvement in terms of better light conditions.
In terms of exposure the window should have brighter sky(as if the correct exposure behaviour can be seen in the original pic with the blown out central window section.
The"bloom" setting isnt unknown when the light wraps arround darker objects(see the boy). Plus its a common fact in the blury lenses of ESB.
The effect that ady did is very good but in my opinion looks like an HDR(not the extreme effects that we mostly see, but the shadows and the highlights have the same amount of detail in terms of exposure)
Even in night-evening times the camera cant balance the interior and the exterior exposure.
Most of the times interior shoots have the sky blown up-white and the details faded.
The masks i can assume is already there so if any adjustment to the lightning is possible. Adding subtle bloom is an option for better lens effects.
(extra note: Notice how the light burns the pixels of a darker object creating a magenta-blue sometimes red chromatic aberration. I would love to see these film effects on the new "clean" shots that adywan created)
-Angel
Good to see that the "fork" antenna is more defined now. :)
-Angel
There is a mask error on the tube on the top right corner(triangular shape) in your pic.
Amazing job on this one, good riddance matte lines :D
-Angel
The attention to the detail is remarkable for sure. i like the small edge that appears when vader cuts the rail.
But if you notice closely adywan added a few frames with additional sparks. Compare it with the original sparks appear in the film in this shot, they are more blured and over exposured when ady's are sharp and rescaled(meaning very detailed for their size). I think the effect needs a bit more work :)
-Angel
Good post ImpFighter. :)
-Angel
@Angel don't see why the Lightsabre needs removing he could have just been modifying it on tatooine or just finishing it. It does not need removing waste of time IMO
In fact the idea of moving the shot in dagobah was darth_ender's and i was explaining if its possible visualy. :) no further analysis in story terms
Angel, I'm still not sure I'll use the scene, but given that you say compositing a different background shouldn't be that hard, and now that I've actually watched the Dagobah scene as opposed to going by memory, it could actually be a conceivable change. Luke's lightsaber it turns out is never actually visible on Dagobah. Guess I should have watched it before I wrote :)
For some reason Bingowings actually altered the idea and replaced dagobah with tattoine(ben's hut) the mockup works surprizing well.
Just thinking here. Right after this is where the A-Wing flies into the Executor. What if the A-Wing fired a missile instead?
I was thinking about this idea for a long time. Actually placing missiles to star wars crafts especialy if i can guess homing missiles it actualy makes the scenery a bit more generic as scifi, i dont like it.Everyone has missiles. Maybe introduce some Ywing bombs or at least give a special attribute to the fighters that we didnt got deep with them appart the videogames(ion cannons, bombs, proton torpetoes etc)
-Angel
@jonathan7:i would never use same footage or shots from other movies for the sake of story telling or executing an idea.I prefer take time and devote of making something new.
@Darth_Ender: The background replacement is easy with some more post work on it. Some one has to roto out luke and other elements for sure.
About the removal of the lightsaber. In some shots can be done with some smart patches but they will not work on complex shots like when cloths are moving or bending. You have to count the shots that he has the saber and decide how much from them will you cut,reframe or remove the saber just to start managing the work and each one can take its task. :)
-Angel
MrInsaneA said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o--bLEobBFY&feature=related
Y'know Aalenfae, even though I'm not a fan of your slowed down Mustafar fight, I think that using a slower version of Battle of the Heroes would benefit the sequence greatly.
Nice!Cheap but effective
Tho with some slowdowns in the battle and the music might seem that all the footage is slowed down.
Careful placement :)
-Angel
Monroville said:
A couple of questions:
(2) will there be any added lightsabre lighting after-effects, similar to Vader's sabre casting a slight red glow on Luke's eye in the carbonite chamber? There is a scene specifically when Vader says "You're beaten!" and points his sabre a few inches from Luke's face and there is no light cast-off despite the proximity.
+2 but i suspect that its an old clip with no final efects on it.
Its interesting tho watching the duel with the glowless lightsabers i noticed that the motion in the two footages are not a perfect match. At first i was wondering why they look slow down and for what reason. But at the end i m positive that adywan used the non effects footage (6:40) and re rotoscope the sabers on top while rotoing the proper colors and backgrounds.
An interesting take on this no doubt a clever way to avoid the glows.
I wish more effectless shots were available cleaned so further adjustment will be aplied.
-Angel
aalenfae said:
You can count me in for CGI and backgrounds.
I can also (though I'm still learning) do rotoscoping and stuff like that.
Count me as:
CGI modeling and some animation
Rendering and Light Department
Compositing
Storyboards-visualization and matte paintings.
As well for 2d Graphics
Aal can be a powerful asset :)
-Angel
darth_ender said:
I think it would be beneficial to include the ROTJ Wishlist for Adywan as a starting point for considerations in this edit.
My mockups/ideas/mattes are open to all, not stricted to any project.
Unless they are exlusive for specific projects after with coordination with the editor.
-Angel
aalenfae said:
Anybody know where I can get the actual engine sounds of Grievous' flagship and stuff like that? It'd make replacing the music much easier (And eliminate the choppy transition, which (unless I wanted screaming battle droids), was unavoidable.
Airplane sounds for the most of the flybies. Most of the time it sounds similar with slave 1
Pretty interesting why the chose to use such a type of an airplane for a massive ship.
Clone wars have some bits of a similar sound.
-Angel
A feedback on the clip:
I liked the removed cyan you did. Careful the magenta tones that skin takes (palpatine) :)
Explosions light effects Very well done as well the sound desing.
"Leave him or we will never make it" I like the wobling camera movement but i think more sharp shaking
Finaly a shakeless explosion! :D
The footage appears a bit contrasty making it lose detail in highlights and shadows.
Activate elevator... the walls are still blue, will you remove the hue from them?
The alarm sound already feels 70s. One suggestion is to have it be in specific times in the shots otherwise it sound way to repeated. I think Tantive alarm changes a few times.
The overhead shot with the two ships battling need more Green to the lasers. It still look cyan-y ;)
I m generaly not fan of the phantom menace music that used in these shots. If not a new music replacement is an option then ok.
Nice new voice on the alien! Nice new static(monitor noise) on the above monitor of him!
The shot of obi wan awakes is particular successful as background replacement!
Good you got rid the falling elevator when they fall into the door :)
The new droid voice is something i have to get use to but 100 times better from the old ones
Grievous walks over the ship still appears in the exterior scene. maybe you can cover it with a slow explosion as overlap.
The new Escape pod shot is maybe the highlight of this video! If you can make it a bit longer and trim some frames from the fancy previous shots then its perfect!
The lasers that hit the ship is a bit out of the ROTS aesthetic. I can take it as a temp effect
Some explosions are a bit akward but i can imagine is a matter of time so you can find better replacements!
-Angel
Good idea!
Since donation became ridiculus popular lately, why not ;)
Lets Run and make this idea a patent for this edit :)
-Angel
adywan said:
I'm working at 32bit in after effects unless a plugin i'm using isn't 32 bit compatible then i have to work at 16 bit, but this shot was 32 bit
Well ok. I can assume that will look better after a second revision.
One question tho. Why the sabers in the gantry scene have motion blur when they move, when all other shots have a clear edge core?
-Angel
adywan said:
Harmy said:
I don't see any difference at all in that picture Angel posted.
Neither do i
Take this as Example:
If you work in 8bps comp and do a motion blur pass, it will look poor and the blending between the edges will be washed out
Try 32bps and the blending already looks better if not need further post.
this example i think is a simple solution how the pixels should behave.
If i recall right Adywan works on 16bts?
Still the edges look akward because they lack the film post they deserve :/
-Angel
This video is very good but it proves a point about the different blending edges that are too obvious because we have real life explosions and artificial ones.
What bugs me most is ,appart some mask errors, when the lightsaber flashes appear when vader advances on Luke(we see luke's back) but its an easy task to be fixed,is the edge blending.
When you are using a mask to substract the edge(futhered or not) seems wahshed out. What it needs to be is to get the original feel when an overexposured light burns the edges of a dark object.
In the case of this video and most of the new effects that added(mostly glows and flashes) are too clean to simulate the feel and the proper burning
This example below might give an idea of what i mean.
Original
Simple mask
Better edges.
Do you see the difference as a more accurate film feel?
Not the best example of saving the washed out edge arround Luke's head still you might get a taste.
The inbetween edges between the glow and the obsured object must contain color and edge effects.
It has to have the edge like it was printed and burned the pixels not just substracting the object. :)
-Angel
