Windows7Guy100 said:
Perhaps this will change your mind about him.
I’m not familiar with that film or the story around it, so that’s not something I’m ever going to bother with. For the record, I don’t say that to be a dick. It’s just that it’s about a character I don’t find interesting, in a film I have zero interest in ever watching.
yotsuya said:
I would add the Darth Vader was suited well prior to the final story took shape. They’ve mentioned some possible inspirations, but one that comes to mind are the samurai helmets with the black face mask. Not only does Vader’s helmet resemble the Japanese helmets (but being much closer to the head), but the face mask does as well. As so much of the rest of Star Wars comes from Samurai Cinema, I wouldn’t be surprised if Darth Vader’s look did as well.
I remember reading years ago that McQuarrie had a hand in steering the look when he worked on some sketches. Apparently Lucas dug it and went in that direction. The Samurai influence is pretty clear in some of the McQuarrie art that followed that new direction.
I thought it was the Deak fight but he’s already fully masked by then. Reading this McQuarrie explanation below, it’s a sketch I’ve never seen. I found this on the Star Wars site.
“Early in the script there was a description of Vader crossing between two ships in space so I created this mask so he could breathe in space, with a suggestion of teeth in the masks grillwork,” McQuarrie said. “It was not until the fourth draft that Lucas wrote in more of the backstory of Vader, with his connection to Ben Kenobi and Luke’s father, as well as the duel that followed between Ben and Vader after Vader killed Luke’s father.”
With regard to Rogue One; I hope he isn’t in it at all. And yes, I realize that’s very unlikely. If he is, I’ll be glad if it’s just a scene or a name-check. I’ve never found him to be interesting. Not when I was a kid in 77, not in the 80s films, not now. A movie without him would be just fine with me.
yotsuya said:
from the beginning and the earliest drafts of the script …
when I said beginning, I meant when the story of ANH …
Looks like you’re taking George’s advice.
We’ve been off-topic long enough, thanks to me. If you want to continue this dance, start a thread for it.
I’d like to see a Star Wars heist film in the vein of Heat.
This novel is along those lines. They would have to recast, which wouldn’t bother me.
Lucas said it himself when he wrote a letter to the producers of Lost:
“Don’t tell anyone … but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories – let’s call them homages – and you’ve got a series.”
Source? (Not that I doubt it, but it’d be nice to have the proof for these very kinds of dscussions)
I read it in the L.A. Times, but it was carried by lots of reputable publications when he originally sent it.
Lucas said it himself when he wrote a letter to the producers of Lost:
“Don’t tell anyone … but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories – let’s call them homages – and you’ve got a series.”
yotsuya said:
The problem with evidence is that it is only as good as the truth at the time.
That’s a laughable dodge of reality. Truth isn’t fluid. Uncle George wrote a story outline and several scripts. They weren’t sealed until a date decades later when the truth was to be revealed, they weren’t cryptic, nor were they a puzzle to decode as events unfolded through the years.
Your man isn’t anywhere near that deep. The story he always intended was filmed and released in 1977. What came out years later was also written years later.
There was no profound Original Vision ™ If he had everything planned from the very beginning, he wouldn’t have hired two people to write sequels to the film. The first sequel was a published novel, written in such a way as to make it something they could film. A published sequel, commissioned by and ok’d by Lucas.
he was planning the family drama from the beginning and the earliest drafts of the script bear this out.
“ANNIKIN STARKILLER, a tall, heavy-set boy of eighteen.”
*“LUKE SKYWALKER, Commander of the Aquilaean Starforce. He is a large man, apparently in his early sixties…”
“PRINCESS LEIA, about fourteen years old…”
“DARTH VADER, a tall, grim-looking general…” (age not given)
“the earliest drafts” show nothing of the sort. If you want to truly go back to the very beginning, Vader isn’t part of Star Wars. Two years later all four characters are in the story at the same time, at least two with different surnames. They are not and cannot be related in the the way you wish. No father\son, no twins. It simply isn’t possible.
Lucas has been lying about this for thirty-five years.
The only thing that seems certain about all of this is that Lucas understood that if he continually lied about something long enough some people would eventually believe it, even when the truth is easily discoverable.
yotsuya said:
When you investigate where the name came from, it is almost impossible to ignore Dark Father and the implication that he was someone’s father from the very beginning.
No.
If you want to go from the very beginning, in the original outline Vader isn’t even part of the story. In the next writing (first script), he’s just a military officer.
He’s not the Central tragic figure, Chosen One, destroyer of worlds Lucas morphed him into decades later. He isn’t related to any of the characters. He isn’t Annikin. In fact, the separate character of Annikin is considerably younger than Luke.
Vader wasn’t Luke’s father in Brackett’s script for The Empire Strikes Back either. That change came along later when Lucas rewrote her work.
Leia being Luke’s sister would be another such item that Lucas would not tell anyone the real story until it was time.
No.
Their being related was a late change while writing Return Of The Jedi as a way to tie up the “There is another” line from The Empire Strikes Back. When Lucas decided to scrap films 7, 8, 9 (or was that 10, 11, 12?), he had to scramble to come up with “another”.
Also, the saber duel on the lava planet was planned from the beginning. I knew about it very early on.
No.
For the film Star Wars, the original outline and the first four scripts have no mention what so ever of a lava duel. That wouldn’t come along until an early draft of Return Of The Jedi and even then it was Luke fighting Vader. The lava had nothing to do with Vader needing a suit.
I occasionally peruse a Saga forum to get a feel for the climate when a new trailer or bit of news is released. I understand there are lots of fans who want the saga to be a clean, contained, planned-from-day-one story. I understand they are under the impression that Lucas * genuflect * was some sort of profound creator of their world.
Unfortunately (for them) there are decades of evidence proving that just isn’t the case.
If you dig The Tragedy Of Darth Vader saga, cool, but don’t kid yourself that it was all planned from the very beginning as some sort of Original Vision ™. It wasn’t.
John Doom said:
It’s not like they couldn’t look up for her because she didn’t have a blaster, now :\
Very true, but she had more to offer as a role model. Morally centered, a strong leader, intelligent.
SilverWook said:
Yeah, that’s the 70’s for you.
They did similar things with the Bionic Woman, but at least they gave her a fembot to fight.
Jesus! No wonder my generation is such a mess. 😉
SilverWook said:
Now that I think about it, the original Kenner 12 inch Leia didn’t even come with a blaster, just a comb and brush!
Come on! Is that true? What a sad statement on what they thought of the girls who may have looked up to her.
There is a big difference between a 30-year-old female in an R-rated film and a 20-something in a family-oriented film. Particularly so with one as globally recognized and popular as Star Wars.
My point wasn’t that there is finally a female lead for girls to admire and emulate. As LoveLike pointed out, there have been some before. My point is that Star Wars is now a much deeper franchise character-wise and the lead is a well-written and realized young woman. I was glad to see that Disney\Lucasfilm took the heat and made one of the main characters (arguably the main character) a strong young woman.
The girl I saw yesterday was engaged in our world. Something that (in Star Wars) was a much bigger stretch for girls with the first six films. I’m unfamiliar with the last two prequels, so I can’t speak to how Padme was portrayed. However, I don’t remember there being near the admiration or appreciation for the character that we’re seeing with Rey.
To me, Rey is far and away the best part of the film. She’s a three dimensional character unlike any in the franchise before, at least that I’m aware of. She’s introspective, she has strengths, she has doubts, she’s sometimes fearless, she’s sometimes afraid, she stands up for her beliefs, and she has a strong moral center. She does the right thing even when not doing it would be considerably easier and safer. She seems to me to be an outstanding role model for young girls.
I just got back from lunch out at a local wrap/bowl type of place. After I sat down, a family of five came in. The three kids were about ages seven to ten. The ten-year-old was a girl. She came in holding a Star Wars novel, her finger marking where she was in the story. She read it while they waited in line and while she sat at the table after she finished her meal.
Disney/Lucasfilm having a strong female lead has been discussed at length the past two years and has received criticism and praise in equal measure. I’ve been vocal of my support of it since the beginning. To me; character, story, and depth are paramount. I thought Daisy just about carried the film, more than held her own with some heavy hitters, and offered a character worth admiring.
It looks like they intend to do the same with Rogue One. They again have my full support and admiration. I feel like I saw the effects their decisions are having on the franchise and how it appears to be creating a new generation of fans. I was elated to see a young girl walk into a restaurant carrying a Star Wars novel. It was, I believe, a testament to the power a positive role model can have on a young girl.
My mom drove me here every week during the summer of 1977.
Oh, and all of you 30-year-olds talking about how old you feel - let’s revisit this in twenty years.
I’m willing to leave it in the hands of the writers and directors. I only have one request; Chewie kills Kylo. Give me that and I’m happy.
I’m a touch late to the party this year. As I have for the past few years, I’m posting a picture of my former boss* on May 4th. Some of you may remember her from years past. As she’s moved higher into management, she’s had to go a touch more formal. This is the attire a few weeks ago.
*She’s still a close friend, so keep it clean. No, Warbler, not that close. 😉
Lord Huron - The World Ender
Boyega - "I mean, we didn’t establish a romance in Episode VII; we never played it that way. Daisy and I, we’re friends. Finn and Rey – they’re just friends. Finn is a storm trooper, so he doesn’t really know what’s going on. So the romance thing is something that’s going to be interesting in the next installment. It’s not going to go the way you think it’s going to go".
Is any of this new stuff other than Wendig’s mess written for adults? I think the above novels are YA.
Lost Stars was marketed as a YA, but honestly it is a totally enjoyable read for adults. It doesn’t FEEL like a YA novel. There’s sex and death and violence and stuff you wouldn’t normally find in a YA novel. I guess my point is that it doesn’t feel like you’re reading Twilight or Hunger Games or anything like that. It’s like the films, in that it is enjoyable by people of all ages. It really should have just been marketed as a straight novel, not as a YA novel.
That seems to be the opinion of this reviewer as well.
http://www.geekofoz.com/2015/10/star-wars-lost-stars-review.html
I’ll give it a read.
Sunrise doesn’t last all morning
A cloudburst doesn’t last all day
Seems my love is up and has left you with no warning
It’s not always going to be this grey
All things must pass
All things must pass away
Sunset doesn’t last all evening
A mind can blow those clouds away
After all this, my love is up and must be leaving
It’s not always going to be this grey
All things must pass
All things must pass away
All things must pass
None of life’s strings can last
So, I must be on my way
And face another day
Now the darkness only stays the night-time
In the morning it will fade away
Daylight is good at arriving at the right time
It’s not always going to be this grey
Is any of this new stuff other than Wendig’s mess written for adults? I think the above novels are YA.
My linking it to the entire forum is my subtle hint that people shouldn’t be forum-bashing on our site. Legitimate discussions are fine, a post specifically asking for an angry pile-on of another forum is not.
comfywide said:
Is anyone here disgusted by TFN forums for any reason? Whether it’s the hypocrisy of the posters, the tyranny of the mods or their policies on discussing Star Wars?
I’m going to step in here for just a second.
If anyone wants to disparage other forums, their rules, their members, their topics, their tolerance\non-tolerance, the mods, their mission, etc, etc. Do it somewhere other than here.
moviefreakedmind said:
I hope this doesn’t lead to a fifteen-page debate about the Nolan Batman films. 😉
It won’t.