Alderaan

hydrospanner said:
It could be that they softened her character purposefully? Maybe seeing Finn defect affected her and she is heading down that same road and starting to question the First Order’s motives. That is why she put the shields down without much of a fight. Maybe we see her leave the First Order in the next film. Just an idea.

That’s going to be my new Star Wars motto from now on. There are no bad people in the world! Everyone is a good guy just waiting to be changed back to the good side.

Frank your Majesty said:
For me, this wouldn’t make sense. The distribution rights for Star Wars won’t go back to Disney, only for Empire and Jedi. If Disney wanted to piss off Fox by not sharing the money for the last two movies, why wouldn’t Fox simply prevent them from releasing Star Wars altogether? How could Disney release an OOT without the first movie?

Well, the corollary is why would Fox refuse to do a deal after May 2020? We come back to the old argument they would likely never turn down free money. Sure Fox might want to do a deal now, but Disney (in their interest) tells them nah, they’re not interested at this time. After May 2020, Disney approaches Fox and says they are finally interested.

Of course FOX could say F*** you guys, but that’s not likely. Maybe they get 1/3 of what they would get now, but it’s still profit and I’m sure they would take it.

I don’t remember if they said something like “first offense” or “no history”. If they said offense, then it would imply he had been found out. But really I don’t remember.

Either way, it would be more in line with his characterization that he ran away because he didn’t want to kill innocents as opposed to running away to save himself.

Edit: didn’t mean to derail

SpilkaBilka said:

The ROTJ line I never understood was Vader saying ‘leave them to me, I will deal with them myself.’ Then several seconds go by… then the Falcon gets clearance.

What was Vader doing in those few seconds? Standing there and just thinking about it?

Yes, he was deciding what he was going to do. He knew Luke was on the shuttle. I think there was genuine indecision on Vader’s part about how he should proceed.

Remember, enough time had passed since the end of Empire, and Luke refusing him and getting away would have taken an emotional toll. Vader is kind of a broken man in the last film, a shell of his former self. His plan to turn Luke and overthrow the Emperor is hopeless. Palpatine knows he’s a traitor and keeps him on a short leash. I doubt Vader really even sees a way forward, and that’s why he comes off as resigned and conflicted.

SilverWook said:
Aren’t you forgetting Phasma’s suspicion that Finn balked at carrying out orders set his decision to flee in motion?

That’s debatable. I thought it was more that Finn didn’t want to kill innocent people. Further backed up by Phasma saying they didn’t discipline him because it was his “first offense”.

It’s really hard to decide which is the worst Star Wars character in history now, Jar Jar or Phasma? At least Jar Jar was a genuine character, even if wildly inappropriate and hopelessly annoying. Even the Ewoks were cute and had their emotional little moments.

Phasma’s only purpose in the entire ******* film was to lower the shields for the resistance. That’s it. Just imagine an imperial officer whose only function was to lower the shields on Endor and say “you’re gonna regret this!”

You know the crazy thing is that I was kind of meh on The Force Awakens, it was just OK for me. And yet I went and watched it twice, both Friday night and Saturday night last weekend with my family.

I have never seen the OOT on the big screen. Ever.

If Disney released the OOT in theaters, I would probably go and watch each film at least 10 times. No joke.

moviefreakedmind said:
I never refer to any of them by their episode numbers though.

I refer to the prequels as prequel #1, prequel #2, and prequel #3.

They don’t deserve any more than that, in my opinion.

There is sure to be something big in 2027, as that will be the 50th anniversary.

However, I hope Disney will do the right thing and not wait that long. They could sell the OOT commercially as soon as 2020, when the ST is over and they own as much of the profit as they will ever own. Demand for the OOT would likely be higher circa 2020 than 2027 too.

Return of the Jedi is a good movie that has some glaring blemishes. That’s how I feel.

The Force Awakens is a bad movie that is so spectacular in some of the things it does well, that it turns out to be OK or decent. Quality-wise they are probably in the same neighborhood but coming from different directions.

I don’t think the OOT will be released until the next decade, sometime after May 2020. Disney will wait until all of Fox’s distribution rights expire on the other movies, and they will simultaneously wait until the ST is over and dies down.

I always call it Star Wars. Sometimes the original Star Wars (1977) if more clarity is needed and I’m lucky enough to be writing or typing it out.

generalfrevious said:

How is Han Solo in ROTJ any better than Qui-Gon Jinn in TPM? Or for that matter, how is Leia better than Queen Amidala? All those two characters do in the end is blow up a shield generator. If anyone saw Jedi without knowing about the previous two films, how would they describe Han and Leia? The answer is that you can’t because they are hollowed out by George Lucas’s hack screenwriting, and nobody can deny this, and that cripples everything!!!

I almost believed you, but you didn’t use enough exclamation points. Maybe 4 or 5 would have done it.

I know this a few pages back, but anyone who says the Dark Knight Rises was a good movie, is mistaken.

Yoda Is Your Father said:

cyclista said:

Thanks for introducing me to the word “hamartia”, by the way.

Seconded.

You guys should check out Aristotle’s Poetics sometime. It’s a good read.

Will the BluRay version have “NOOOOOO” spliced into Han’s death scene?

cyclista said:
I’d say Rowling definitely intends that the Good side is the right one, whereas Lucasfilm seems conflicted

This is a thing that I’m tired of. The prequels should have taken a noble man, Anakin Skywalker, and given him some kind of hamartia, and allowed that to lead to his downfall and ultimate turn to the dark side of the force.

Instead, we got one pointless movie about a kid, and then two movies about a whiny teenager who was already rotten to the core, that attempted to construct an alternate reality, one that absolved the bad guy from any responsibility of his actions. The underlying message was, frankly, disgusting.

This is the subtext of the Star Wars “Saga”, the one the prequel fanboys follow Episodes 1-6:

“It’s OK if you make mistakes and do bad things. It’s not your fault, it was someone else who made you do the evil things you did, like the Emperor. This is your story Anakin. We’re all here for you and we all love you and blah blah blah …”

This is like the parent who raises the spawn of the devil because they never hold their child accountable. Everything is an excuse. Someone else’s fault. Their baby makes only small mistakes in life, and nothing big is ever their fault.

Now, go back to 1977. Think of how bleak films of the late 60’s and 70’s were. Think of how fresh the original Star Wars was, because it gave us the good guys who were genuinely good and struggling against the forces of evil and they won. It was unambiguous. It was full of hope. Then think of Empire, how even though the film was so much richer and deeper, it was still, at its core, unambiguous good versus unambiguous evil.

Over time, George Lucas’s story turned into something else that betrayed the heart of those first two films we all know and love. We wound up with a new universe, one that I frankly don’t care for in Star Wars. It was the single biggest thing wrong with the design of the prequels (not the execution). And if we see any more emo bitchy adolescent angst from the likes of Kylo in this new trilogy, I’m going to be really pissed off about it. I loved the dude when he had his mask on, because he was coming across as a pure bad-ass. I don’t need that villain to take off his mask and show me his tender heart, how he’s really a good guy deep down inside and we all need to turn him back to the good side. Fuck that guy. I want Rey to defeat him. I want to see him punished for all the evil things he’s done. This isn’t General Hospital. I want to see the good guys win and the bad guys lose. That is Star Wars to me.

double post sorry

There is a science to the way names sound. I forget what it’s called. Vader was not only a great villain, but his name sounded perfect. Vader. Intimidating. Succinct. Hard to forget, and very appropriate.

Another great example I can think of is Anne Stanton in All The King’s Men.

Unfortunately, it seems this science is being lost on younger generations. Snoke doesn’t do it for me. I can’t really explain it, and I wonder if anyone can help out here. But even besides the terrible CGI design, the name just doesn’t elicit fear. And as we all heard, it sounded pathetic when Leia and Han said it in TFA.

The jumping of the shark moment for me was Yoda spinning around like a monkey and fighting at the end of the second prequel. A part of me died that day.

team_negative1 said:

If it weren’t for the Special Editions and the Prequels resurrecting the franchise, none of us would be here.

There would be no OT forums, there would be no projects, there would be no discussions. There would be a few bootleg DVD’s, and probably some laserdisc transfers being traded on ebay or some science fiction forums, but that would be about it.

Open the pod bay doors, HAL

TavorX said:
I got goosebumps man when that happened. Never thought I’d see visual callbacks to the OT, but damn, I agree, loved it!

Yep, it was beautiful. Not just nostalgia kicking in either; I think it’s amazing they recreated that set and got Rey in it, not to mention it was a beautiful shot, visually stunning.

For all the hate I’m giving the movie, it’s moments like that, and the pursuit of the Falcon on Jakku, and so many other moments with Rey, that show the film could have been something special, continuing the legacy of the OT.

It’s disheartening that the good parts got ****** up by all the missteps.

That was my favorite easter egg in the entire movie-- seeing Rey in the corridor on Bespin.

That beautiful shot made me tear up a little.