I always assumed the use of the ion cannon was more for tactical purposes than moral ones. That is to say, it would take many turbolaser blasts to destroy or temporarily disable the ISD, but one ion cannon blast seems to do the trick nicely.
*nods* I bought the prequel soundtracks as well, though I thoroughly dislike the movies themselves. In my opinion, the music is the only element of the PT which is up to par with (and sometimes even eclipses) that of the OT. And like Sky said, that's especially to Williams' credit when you consider what lousy material he had to work with this time around.
I'm still trying to get the soundtrack preview page to load properly. Thus far, no luck. If it's any good I might consider buying the soundtrack, though I won't buy the "movie" until purgatory freezes over. Just because it's not by John Williams doesn't necessarily mean the soundtrack will suck. I really enjoy the Shadows of the Empire soundtrack, and that's not by Williams either.
Of course, seeing as how the preview page is still being beligerent and thus I haven't had a chance to hear any of it yet, I can't say for certain one way or another.
EDIT: Ok, finally got the preview to work. Personally, I kinda like it. It doesn't really feel like a Star Wars soundtrack, but then again it's not for a real Star Wars movie anyway. My prediction: the soundtrack will turn out to be pretty good though the movie itself will blow chunks royally. (Wow, just like the PT!)
Heh. My wife and I saw a spot for it on TV a couple days ago, and she did a double take at the "In theatres August 15" bit. "I thought it was a video game!" she said.
Too true. Nevertheless - and regardless of whether you call it a "plot hole" or "plot cul-de-sac" - it's simply poor filmmaking to introduce a mystery that has far-reaching ramifications and then fail to resolve it, especially after George specifically said he would do so in Ep. III.
Janskeet said:
Akwat Kbrana said:
It's difficult to say. The good parts of Ep. I are better than those of II-III, but the bad parts of Ep. I are worse than those of II-III. The overall plot is more mature, but the execution is less.
Overall, I have to say no. The bad parts are so bad that I cannot overlook them, thus relegating TPM to the position of my absolute least favourite SW movie. But I do see what you mean, and it's definitely a hard question to answer. Which of these three excrament sandwiches do you prefer? Ultimately, I'd rather have a sandwich that wasn't made of excrament in the first place. ;)
What parts of the movie did you think were the bad parts? My guess would be when Jake Lloyd opens his mouth, Jar Jar Binks goofing off, and Gungans, am I correct?
Yeah, for the most part. Here's a (rough) list for ya:
Critically stupid:
Less-Critically Stupid:
Like I said, I certainly agree that the feel of the movie is more in line with the OT, it's just that the truly horrendous moments ruin the movie and utterly shatter suspension of disbelief. That being said, I do definitely prefer the score of TPM over Ep. II-III...
It's difficult to say. The good parts of Ep. I are better than those of II-III, but the bad parts of Ep. I are worse than those of II-III. The overall plot is more mature, but the execution is less.
Overall, I have to say no. The bad parts are so bad that I cannot overlook them, thus relegating TPM to the position of my absolute least favourite SW movie. But I do see what you mean, and it's definitely a hard question to answer. Which of these three excrament sandwiches do you prefer? Ultimately, I'd rather have a sandwich that wasn't made of excrament in the first place. ;)
Ayup. In ESB and ROTJ, his speech impediment was a mild little idiosyncracy that added depth to his character and heightened the "wise old sage" motif. In the PT, it's just impossible to understand a thing he's saying. Every single sentence is hopelessly jumbled to the point that you sometimes have to concentrate in order to translate. Even the shortest and simplest lines are affected. "I hope, right, you are."
Anchorhead said:
Octorox said:2.) Who is the "another" Yoda talked about.
George has admited in interviews that they shot that scene without any idea of who it would be or how they were going to resolve that plot point. He just figured he'd come up with something in time for a third film.
More proof that he's lying when he says he had it all planned out in the early 70s.
Kinda like he assured us that he'd resolve the whole Syfo Dias thing in Ep. III?
At least he actually delivered in ROTJ...
Agreed re: the "foul stench" remark. It's a good burn. Ditto with the Luke whining; it's well delivered and fits his character. That's one reason that I always loved Luke's character arc: he goes from a whiny farm boy to a selfless hero who's totally in control.
Personally, I always thought Anakin's character arc should've been exactly opposite. He should've started as a mature, noble, selfless, likeable character, and transform into an evil villain. Instead, we got an annoying, unrealistic little boy who transforms into a leary, creepy, whiny, overbearing, unbelievable jerk, and finally turns into the cool-as-ice villain from there.
Is it a bad thing when he's far more likeable as an evil villain than he is as a "good guy"?
Octorox said:
I actually really liked the sounds. I was watching the pod race in Episode I recently and was like damn "that's some awesome sound design". The OT have comparably bland sound design. Iv'e always oved the PT as far as sounds and visuals are concerned. It's just the plot, characters and dialouge that needs work...
Really? Well, to each his own, of course. IMO, much of the PT sound design (particularly engines) sound like re-used sound effects with ever-so-slightly different filters applied in Cool Edit depending on which vessel is currently traversing the screen. "Ben, I'd like the spaceships and speeders in the new movies to either warble, screech, or zoom. Think you can pull that off?"
Jet engine sounds will always sound more appropriate for spaceships and speeders than motorboat sounds. At least...that's my opinion.
Anyone who doesn't know the difference between film grain & old special effects vs. non-anamorphic & low resolution transfers oughtn't to be interviewed on such a subject to begin with.
No kidding. Judging from the clips that've been released, the graphics look slightly less advanced than most PS2 games I've seen. Final Fantasy: TSW, though a pretty poor movie, was light-years ahead of this "production" in terms of CGI, and it was released way back in '01!
If the plot looked promising, I might be tempted to look beyond the shabby CGI, but - alas - it sounds to be even worse than the PT in that regard. ::sigh::
Hey, you've done some great work on this, if the clips you posted are anything to go by. I'm really looking forward to seeing this once it's out. How long have you spent on this, just out of curiosity?
A few comments...
End of Episode I - Interesting. You're really shifting the chronology of Ep. I, from the looks of things. Can't wait to see how it all plays out in your edit.
Obi Wan/Jango chase - Wow. That was so much better than the original version. Amazing what a great difference a dialogue trim makes. Most of the dialogue spoken throughout the original sequence was unnecessary and a little cringe-inducing; especially baby Boba's snippets. Love what you've done with it.
End of Episode 2 - Very intriguing concept. I like how you've quickened the pace of these events. The PT suffered from - among other things - too much needless exposition; looks like you've gone a long way toward rectifying this.
Order 66 - Nice. I kinda like seeing Anakin facing the younglings tied into this sequence. It feels like it belongs there. (Can't say I'm sorry to see the cockney kid's line cut either...)
Obi-Wan vs. Anakin - Again, the dialogue trimming makes the duel a lot more enjoyable IMO. Did you cut some of the more outlandish moves performed in that one indoor chamber? Seems like the weird saber-twirling-dance-move wasn't there in your clip; that always struck me as over-the-top. May I assume you're cutting the whole "chosen one prophecy" sub-plot since you cut Obi-Wan's "You were the chosen one" line? If so, good choice; I've always felt that was out of place in Star Wars.
All that to say...good work. Most of the "PT compiled into one movie" projects I've seen seem to've suffered from pretty elementary errors. Bad cuts, continuity issues, etc. Of course it's impossible to make a full evaluation just based on the clips you shared, but if the entire edit is as good as what I've seen, it looks very promising.
I don't recall whether or not it's been brought up in this thread, but I didn't see it in the suggestion terminal...
In the 2004 release, they changed Slave I's engine sound the match AOTC. Problem is, it sounds remarkably stupid, especially compared with the original jet sound. Could the original effect be restored, please?
In general, I agree with you entirely. Until being exposed to ADigitalMan's fanedits, I avoided the PT as much as possible. Too many cringe-inducing moments. But a good slapstick/juvenile humor/silliness-reducing edit of the PT can actually be quite enjoyable. Not on the same level as the OT, of course, but the prequels - for all their absurdity and cheesiness - definitely had their moments. I've always thoroughly enjoyed Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. When I think about each prequel movie, I have to admit that the core stories GL came up with on which to base the movies are actually pretty good. The problems are in the details (too many "Star Wars babies" subplots, contraditions with the OT, etc.) and in the execution (fart & poo jokes, Jake Lloyd/Jar-Jar silliness, too much CGI, Hayden's woodenness, etc.).
All that to say that I don't think he's totally talentless; he'd probably do a great job as a conceptual consultant for a movie or series of movies. But as a filmmaker responsible for all the creative decisions including screenwriting, directing, and micromanaging every individual element? He's absolutely the wrong man for the job.
Seems to me that ESB and ROTJ were made to shine because of Kershner and Kasdan. With ANH, GL didn't have the wiggle room necessary to fill the film with silliness and immaturity, what with the well documented time and budget constraints he had to work with.
What seriously bugs me is the lack of respect he's repeatedly shown toward his original fanbase. "They're my movies; I can change 'em any way I want to" seems a pretty egotistical philosophy to me. One ought not to ostracize the fans that made one rich in the first place.
Ah, my bad. Bloody orange goggles make it very difficult to differentiate between pilots. I'd been under the impression that Wedge found Han & Luke ever since I first saw ESB in the '80s. How embarassing.
Dialogue's confusing, too. Luke switches between addressing "Rogue 2" and "Rogue 3" between sentences, but he appears to be interacting with the same snowspeeder. Oh, well; just ignore my third suggestion above, then.
True, this community definitely tends to be more of the "purist" persuation. Nothing wrong with that; birds of a feather and so forth. But the real difference between TFN and OT is that divergent opinions are at least tolerated over here, and even given a chance to be heard even if not agreed with. Sure, you'll find vehemently hostile purists here, but not nearly as many as there are vehemently hostile "gushers" over there. I was at TFN for over a year, and basically any contribution I attempted to make to any SW discussion was immediately shouted down by a multitude of voices. Not discredited or rebutted or argued with; simply shouted down and subsequently ignored. Apparently if you aren't "orthodox," your opinion counts for nothing at all. I finally got fed up and left.
Blindly accepting everything that comes out of Lucas' mouth is as absurd as blindly hating everything the man has ever done post-1980. Criticism isn't about being slanderous; it's about thinking for ones' self and discussing a myriad of views intelligently. I don't think you'll be crucified over here if you happen to enjoy The Phantom Menace. You may get a good deal of arguments and heated discussions as to why it's an inferior movie, but not crucified as seems to be the Modus Operendi on most gusher forums I've visited.
I watched ESB last night and I have a few suggestions for the edit. Not sure if any or all of these have been mentioned yet (87 pages is a lot!), but I didn't see them in the suggestion terminal, so my apologies if I'm being redundant.
1. Just before Vader's hyperbaric chamber, there's an establishing shot of the Executor in which the engines' flare looks really bad. Particularly the flare from the left three. They extend too far up.
2. ESB holds the distinction of having the worst line of dialogue in the entire trilogy. "Two fighters against a Star Destroyer?" asked by a random rebel troop while Leiah is briefing them all prior to the battle. It's not the line that stinks, it's the delivery. Could this please be re-dubbed? It's almost worse than Hayden's acting. There's probably not an alternate audio source to draw from using the original actor's "acting," but since he's just a random unnamed soldier would it not be possible to have someone re-record his dialogue in sync with the video and just dub it in?
3. During the snow battle, Wedge is referred to as both "Rogue 3" and "Rogue 2" by Luke. We know he should be Rogue 2 as per his earlier dialogue while searching for Captain Solo and Commander Skywalker. Battle dialogue is as follows:
Luke: "Rogue 3."
Wedge: "Copy, Rogue Leader."
L: "Wedge, I've lost my gunner. You'll have to take the shot. I'll cover for you. Set your harpoon, follow me on the next pass."
Then, just a few seconds later...
W: "Coming around, Rogue Leader."
L: "Steady, Rogue 2."
W: "Activate Harpoon! Good shot, Janson!"
EDIT: Scratch that; apparently he is addressing two different people. I stand corrected.
4. The Millennium Falcon's engines tend to be white throughout the movie. Should be re-coloured to blue.
5. I know R2's funky sight-dome has been demonstrated, but I noticed upon further examination that it actually fluctuates quite a bit. First, we have the bizarre shot wherein his sight-dome is too small and the surrounding gap has been filled in with blue.
A couple seconds later, some of his blue panels so dark they're are almost black. The box surrounding his sight-dome is completely black as far as I can tell, which ought not so to be.
Then, the next shot we see of him, all is back to normal, for the most part. Some of the panels still don't fit R2's chassis hand in glove, but at least it looks better than the previous two shots.
There ya go. Hope none of that was too redundant and that it helps somewhat. :)
Not at TFN, that's for sure; you practically have to worship Lucas' excrament to be accepted over there...
Agreed re: "sith eyes" being lame...not to mention inconsistent. Why doesn't Dooku have them? Furthermore, when they do occur, they're pretty bloody inconsistent. Palpy, from his sizzlin' moment in ROTS on, seems to have the neon yellow irises all the time. (Same with Maul, unless that's just what a Zabrak's eyes always look like.) But Hayden's "evil eye" moments in ROTS seem really sporadic. He doesn't have them while slicing off Mace's arm. He doesn't have them during the naming ritual. He doesn't have them whilst marching to the Jedi temple to wreak villainy. If I'm interpreting the security holograms clearly, he doesn't even have them while chopping up small children with a lightsabre. Nor does he have them after he arrives at Mustafa and begins slicing the separatist leaders into bite-sized chunks. He's already killed most of them when suddenly the moment hits and his eyes go yellow...for all of one quick shot. After that, he's back to his normal brown, which he retains while choking his wife and trying to stab his best friend. They only come back...after he loses like a pansy and gets totally dismembered? Really? So what do sith eyes mean, really? That someone's really eeeeevil, or just a sub-par swordsman?
And congrats, Ady, on the new equipment; I hope it works out great for ya. We're all looking forward to seeing what you can do with it. :)
Honestly, I can't say this bothers me all that much. The new shot looks realistic, so it doesn't jump out or distract from the movie as do, say, rontos in ANH and the Fraggle Rock sequence in ROTJ. No one's character is affected, it doesn't seem out of place, and it's not jarring. I certainly agree that it's an unnecessary change, but I don't see how it's a major detractor from the film. Frankly, I don't think I'd have ever noticed it if I was just watching the movie through.
While I concur that it's a bit disturbing to see this classic tampered with, I haven't seen anything too damning thus far. When the Arab swordsman shoots first and a CGI Moses appears next to the Ark, then I'll join in a boycott. At present, such a notion seem unjustified to me. :)
Sorry for necroing this thread...
I'm trying to download a Torrent of ADigitalMan's ROTJ Special Edition, and thus far my efforts have been pretty fruitless. I thoroughly enjoyed the edits of 1-3, and am very eager to get my hands on this version of Return, but I've been going non-stop for 3d 9h and am stonewalled at 12%. Seems this one's not being seeded too much anymore, whereas I managed to torrent all of the prequel edits in about a day per. So, any chance someone could re-seed it? I'd greatly appreciate it; torrent details are as follows: title: "ADM- Ep 6". Size: 4.36 GB. Torrent contains 19 files: 7 .VOBs, 2 .BUPs, 2 .IFOs, 1 .TXT, 1 .NFO, and 6 .JPGs. Thanks much!
And ADigitalMan, my thanks for your excellent edits. The Prequels are actually enjoyable to me now. Kudos, sir!
I enjoy a good SE bash as much as the next guy, but I'm not sure I entirely agree that they weren't needed whatsoever. The concept of a special edition which fixes poor visual effects (really dark matte lines, translucent snowspeeders, projector-screen-rancor, miscoloured ANH lightsabres) is good, IMO, provided you don't proceed to then wipe away the original from the pages of film history.
The real problem is that GL went overboard. Rather than touching up the films, he ended up tampering with them. Claymation Jabba, Greedo shooting first, Fraggle Rock characters in Jabba's palace, and a big ol' frikkin' beak on the Sarlaac pit are all examples of change for the sake of change that just stretches credutilty to the breaking point. What's really sad is that a lot of these over-the-top changes were done while lots of a subtle things that really would've helped the films were completely ignored. (Snowspeeders are still translucent. Luke's lightsabre is still sickly green. Et cetera and so forth.)
Honestly, I don't mind the celebration scene so much (although the Kenny G music does irk me; gimme "Yub, yub!" any day.) I even rather enjoy the new sky shots in cloud city. The key is subtlety. The silly CGI antics performed by Jawas and droids as Luke & Co. enter Mos Eisely just scream, "Look at me! Look at me! I'm a new addition! Isn't this great?!?!"
Sooo, all that to say, the concept of an improved OT has potential; the egregious failure was in the execution. That's why, to me, the SEs will forever be apocryphal, and Adywan's revisited series (once it's finished) I will consider canon.