Akwat Kbrana

Scruffy said:

And Jabba was a lot more than just different in size. They gave him an appearance that totally changed his personality, from sinister and clever to silly and cutesy. It wasn't just a bad special effect. A special effect that doesn't work is presumably at least intended to work, but with Jabba there was clearly no intention of making it consistent with the ROTJ Jabba, so the scene screams out contempt for what had been previously established in the films and thus for the old films as a whole.

There's nothing silly or cutesy about his appearance--at least, no sillier than he was in RotJ. It's simply a slightly different appearance, due to the limitations placed upon and inherent to the CGI artists of the time. Perhaps your impression of his personality is based more on his mood than his appearance? Like all creditors and collection agencies, he is relatively friendly the first time he calls to collect--but he means business, and will freeze you in carbonate (or do worse to your credit score) if you don't pay up.

Are you serious?

For the purposes of comparison, here are a few pictures. First, here's what we got in 1983. Monolithic. Menacing.

This is the Jabba we all knew and loved, the one who simultaneously scared us and made us want to toss our cookies. Then, come 1997, we got a new Jabba. A claymation Jabba. A silly, cutesy Jabba.

His eyes reflect more the disposition of Bambi than that of a treacherous serpent. They're cuter. His facial expressions are silly and goofy, like something you'd expect to see on VeggieTales. He's become semi-incorporeal; bits of Han's anatomy freely pass through his body mass. He's also become something of a pushover, and doesn't even object to Han literally stepping on him. Essentially: he's a totally different Jabba.

Two years later, we got another glimpse of Jabba in The Phantom Menace. Oddly, it looks way more like the '83 Jabba than does the '97 version.

I wonder what fantastical strides CGI took in a whopping two years that made all the difference in the world. Regardless, though his role was rather small (and represented a good deal of fanwankery), at least he looks like Jabba again. I can actually imagine this Jabba threatening Luke, Han, and Leiah. Not so with the claymation, saturday-morning-cartoon Jabba we got in ANH SE.

Fast forward five more years. Enter the latest version of ANH Jabba.

For the most part, a vast improvement over the '97 Jabba, but perplexingly, it doesn't look as much like the '83 Jabba as the '99 model does! Did ILM's CGI department devolve in the intervening five-year period?! Jabba has become more menacing than he was seven years earlier, and slightly more - though nor entirely - corporeal: Han's hand doesn't interrupt his matter quite as much as it used to. While this screenshot isn't too bad, there are certain angles where he doesn't really look like any of his previously-seen incarnations. For that matter, in those angles he looks more like a cardboard cut-out than a living, breathing creature.

Will the real Jabba the Hutt please stand up? No two versions look the same. The closest match is probably '83 and '99. The ANH versions are particularly sad. The question will remain: is "Jabba the Hutt" actually a conspiracy comprising a number of different hutts all going by the name "Jabba," or has ILM just gotten painfully lazy?

Actually, Lucas fully intended to give Darth Vader a pink lightsabre back in '77. It was all part of the original vision for Star Wars. Regrettably, they just didn't have the funds to pinken Vader's Sabre back then, so it has to be done now.

Quite right. Case in point, "even I get boarded sometimes; do you think I had a choice?" during the Greedo scene is a direct dialogue lift from the Jabba scene. Totally redundant.

I guess, in addition to shooting second, Han has to explain himself at least twice. After all, it's only gentlemanly.

I daresay it was poor CGI even for '97 standards.

Heck, the thing is less lifelike & believable than oldschool '80s claymation...pretty pathetic when you think about it. And doncha just love how Han's hand passes right through Jabba's body several times? I can't believe that scene made it past quality control...

Bingowings said:

As I said some pages back Star Wars isn't Science Fiction it's Science Fantasy, the story has to obey the rules of the fantasy realm it exists in but it doesn't have to obey the laws of real science (if it did the sound in space thing would be a bit hard to get around).

 

That's a bit silly, unless you intend to argue that the Star Wars characters are able to hear John Williams' score.

This little one's not worth the effort; come, let me get you something...

Adywan, you continue to surpass my highest expectations with this project. I was content with the first draft of the Yoda tweaks, but with the final version, you've improved perfection. The eye-blinks are brilliant, and perfectly timed/placed so as to look natural. Kudos, sir.

Appetite whetted, I await eagerly the next item you Adywan-ize. :)

Josh said:

Fantastic Work Ady, Yoda seems much more lifelike, In fact it's better than the PT. Also thumbs up on the color correction. (Here is the Youtube link... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRH1yzUCSFg

About this "AT-AT problem", did you ever complain before, did you even notice or care, way should you now.  For me, I never questioned the number of AT-At's. It just was. I guess I don't have any more to say that has'nt (oops) already been said.

If you're addressing me, I didn't say it was a major problem at all; just that - having seen both the original version and Ady's test clip with more AT-ATs - the additional AT-AT shots are a visual and tactical improvement over the original, in my opinion. In the end, as you said, it's Ady's call. I'll be satisfied either way...

Furthermore, the new Yoda tweaks look great. I'll second the suggestion that a little eye-blinkage might be a nice addition as well if it could be pulled off without looking too jarring. :)

Well, as long as we're still discussing the AT-ATs, I might as well sound off my own minority report. For what it's worth, Ady, I thought your test clip with added AT-ATs was really, really good. The more I think about it, the more it seems a bit absurd that the galactic empire sends in a grand total of five AT-ATs to take down its most serious adversary. It's not that the original composition is flawed per se; it's just that I found the added AT-ATs to be an improvement.

My two cents. Take it or leave it. :)

Rhikter said:

Originally posted by Akwat Kbrana:

"...it doesn't explain the massive discrepancy vis-a-vis beautiful holographic displays all over the place in the PT, but atari dots and dinky monochrome monitors in the OT..."

I don't know what you could possibly be referencing other than the Death Star plans presented on Yavin IV in ANH.  Other than that you don't have any real argument.

Nonsense. Flashy holographic displays are everywhere in the PT. Every ship cockpit has them (the number of which are legion in the PT). The streets of Coruscant are filled with holographic billboards. The warrooms on Geonosis and Coruscant showcase massive holographic battle tracking systems. The Jedi library has fancy touch-screens with high resolution graphic readouts. Those are just off the top of my head; I'm sure a comprehensive list would be a good deal lengthier.

Compare with the OT. Ship cockpits have tiny flashing lights and a host of levers. What digital screens we see are laughably archaic looking, rather like old ATARI games (targetting computers in MF, TIE fighters, X-Wings, etc.; computer banks in the DS; rebel DS attack run slideshow, and so on). Just compare the Yavin IV war room to the Geonosis war room twenty years ealier. The later site has a silly looking dial that doesn't really seem to do anything, while the earlier (presumably less advanced) site has a very detailed holographic readout that tracks individual ships and troops, if I'm recalling the scene correctly. Now, I can see there being little or no aesthetic progression due to more and more funds being funneled into military development by the Empire, but there's no reason that readout screens and control computers would aesthetically devolve. That's just silly.

George should've kept the look of the PT similar to that of the OT. Instead, he foists off a universe where technology devolves in quality. It's just one more (of many) factors that makes the PT almost impossible to swallow. Suspension of disbelief can only take so many hits before it crumbles entirely.

My point precisely.

Merry Christmas, everyone! I'm looking forward to another good year of discussion (and occasional debate) regarding this fantastic edit effort. Here's wishing the Holiday season finds you all and your families healthy and happy. :)

Not really. Of course I can only speak for myself, but I found the PT scores to be incredible. Unfortunately, a bad movie wrecks a good score much more so that a good score can save a bad movie. Sync up teletubbies to Beethoven's 9nth symphony and you'll have utter silliness. The grandiose music does not make the unfolding absurdity any less laughable; rather, the score seems out of place an ill-fitted to the unbridled cheesiness. Enter the prequel trilogy. Great scores? Absolutely. Appropriate to the subject material? Absolutely not.

AxiaEuxine said:

no, not denial. I love the prequels, sorry they didnt fullfill your expectations but I love them.

Ah. So it's less a case of denial, and more a case of dramatically lowered expectations. Also a good coping device... ;-)

Also, insisting that Boba must be Jango's clone is a bit premature since AOTC:R won't be released for quite a few years. Continuity in the revisited universe thus far has only one established film which is must recognize...

Furthermore, while that explanation may work with the design of the respective vehicles, it doesn't explain the massive discrepancy vis-a-vis beautiful holographic displays all over the place in the PT, but atari dots and dinky monochrome monitors in the OT...

There are no words in the english language apt to describe just how lame that is.

doubleofive said:

Wow, I'm a huge nerd.

Don't be ashamed! Wear your nerdship like a badge of honour!

Welcome to the club, Adywan. "Tolerance" is very much a one-way street as far as TFN is concerned...

tuffy said:

But yeah, the whole "Leia as sister" angle is completely stupid on many levels.  Since Darth Vader just knows Luke is his son during the fight in Empire, he should know who Leia is while she's stuck in her cell and wouldn't have to find out from Luke by the time Jedi rolls around.  Not only that, but it completely wipes out the Luke-Han-Leia love triangle from the first two films as undramatically as possible.

Not really. If you take ROTS as canon, then Vader has been under the impression that he killed his wife before she gave birth. Thus, he's under the impression that he doesn't have any children whatsoever. He wouldn't be on the lookout for his kids, so there's no reason that he'd be scanning random prisoners for genetic similarities to himself. It's not until after the battle of Yavin that he suspects Luke (whose name, presumably, has become famous by this point, and the presence of the name "Skywalker" along with the boy's strength "in the force" is just a bit too much of a coincidence for Darthy to swallow). But even after Vader has become convinced that Luke really is his son, he doesn't suspect for an instant that his wife gave birth to twins. There's no way he possibly could've known that until he ripped it from Luke's mind on DS II.

So, continuity-wise, it works. But I do agree that, from a story-telling point of view, it's pretty stupid and unnecessary.

Which is quite charitable. I've never considered the PT to be 'canon'... :-P

Very well said, C3PX.

For me, each prequel movie took two viewings before the unbridled awfulness really sank in. The first time I saw TPM, somehow I managed only to notice the good parts. I kinda wish I'd never watched a second time; as they say, ignorance is bliss, and every time since then that I've watched the pile o' crappage it's produced more cringes than smiles.

Ditto with AOTC. My expectations had been shot so incredibly low by TPM that AOTC somehow managed to exceed them on my first viewing. Second time I watched, I judged it against my own preferences insofar as movies are concerned rather than against its predecessor, and it failed horrendously.

Same phenomenon with ROTS. First viewing, I was pretty happy. Honestly, given the two trainwrecks that comprised its foundation, I can't imagine doing too much better. But as someone once remarked, a house built on a foundation of sand is doomed to fall at the first sign of a storm. Second time I watched it, the cheesiness jumped out at me. I've come to the conclusion that TPM is the best of the three overall and ROTS is the least cringe-producing overall, but at the end of the day they're more irritating that entertaining both as individual movies and as a trilogy. The fact that it's Star Wars that was butchered so badly is just tragic.

I guess you could compare the PT to a really ugly Christmas tree. Turn the lights down and squint, and it might look ok. Open your eyes, and you can't help but notice the bare spots, twisted branches, and dead pine needles.

I first feared that the prequels were suck royally after my second viewing of TPM. I knew it was inevitable after my second viewing of AOTC. When it really made me livid, however, was in 2004 when the prequel crap started invading the OT. That's just unforgivable.

Very well said.

No. It's a high-def preservation of the 1997 Theatrical SE Empire Strikes Back.

Quite true. A good actor can work wonders on poor dialogue. Good dialogue can sometimes (though very rarely) work despite the bad actor.

With Anakin in the PT, we have the worst of both worlds: terrible actor + piss-poor dialogue = remarkably unimpressive movie.