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ADigitalMan

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26-Sep-2004
Last activity
14-Jun-2025
Posts
2,944

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Post
#81944
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/81944/action/topic#81944
Time
I'm starting to think this thread belongs in a different forum, but we're pretty deep into it now, so I apologize and ask you to bear with me. I'm back on ROTJ for the past couple of nights, working on Lapti Nek. I wanted to do something totally bizarre based on our limited source material for the audio, and the problems of mismatched video quality. So I've done something unique to my "reduced special edition" ...

Okay, so it's no secret how badly I hate "Jedi Rocks." Having played "Lapti Nek" for five years in marching band at Friday night football games as a kid really endeared me to the song. Plus, "Jedi Rocks" is quite simply a horrible, horrible song. Unfortunately, the only way to restore "Lapti Nek" is to re-insert a good capture from LD, and there is still the concern of a mismatch in video qualtity, audio levels, etc. To boot, the film version of "Lapti Nek" isn't available anywhere to my knowledge. So I'm creating something totally unique, that's a bridge of sorts between the OT and the SE. There will be enough good OT restorations to sate our taste for the OT, so I'm taking an approach that's completely unique.

I took the CD version of Lapti Nek from my Anthology CDs and reprocessed thru a 5.1 encoder. I'm not sure how well this is going to translate in the end, but I'm trying. I then took the entire "Jedi Rocks" DVD video and cut up into the indivudal shots. I found a reasonable start point for the song, at the first horn flare, since that's how "Jedi Rocks" begins. I then began to reorder and match as closely as possible, different shots from the SE, up until the point where Oola is dropped into the Rancor pit. A handful of shots are re-used, but I tried to use different frame sequences where possible. The video is pretty much set to the music, though I may tinker with one more shot. I'm working now on Oolas struggle with Jabba, trying to get in some "dialogue" into those shots. I was able to sample audio elsewhere of Jabba talking that works for his vox, but I need to find some audio that will work for Oola. Obviously, the DVD audio is out, as it has music underneath that clashes. I return to the original audio with her scream as she goes down the pit (there is still a bit of source music there, but the crossfade seems to be working nicely), but I need a few grunts and "nos" leading up to that to make the whole sequence work a bit better. Any ideas?

Post
#81639
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/81639/action/topic#81639
Time
Laserman, thanks for a more critical eye. I see some of the things you're talking about, and frankly just wouldn't have if I hadn't asked some of you real videographers. I am, after all, not experienced at all with video editing. Can you PM (or post here if you think it's not a waste of everybody's time) with instrux on how to do things like selecting just the saber? I couldn't figure this out. I was hoping for somethign as user-friendly as photoshops magic wand tool or lasso tool.
Post
#81638
Topic
Letter to LFL about DVD Defects (No OT vs SE discussion)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/81638/action/topic#81638
Time
I realized something critical last night. I (and many others who have argued the same point) have been wrong in assuming the other language tracks are "correct" when compared to the surround mix. Don't get me wrong, they are, but they also aren't mixed in 5.1. The English 2.0 sounds as good as the French or Spanish when run through pro-logic. The music isn't reversed in any of these mixes because the entire mix on these tracks are all just left-right mixes. Unless my understanding is all wrong, the Pro-logic creates its own surround field and naturally isn't going to throw the left channel sounds into the right rear. The 5.1 mix is logically the only audio track that could be screwed up in the rear channels.

Thus, there has been a hole in my argument up to this point so I'll stop arguing the notion that the foreign language tracks were mixed correctly vs the english track. Though I did say when the discs came out that listening to the 2.0 mix was a much more pleasant experience and should be done by all who don't have a 5.1 mix at home. There is a MASSIVE user problem of people trying to listen to 5.1 through their stereo connections. Chalk this up to poor menu design. As aging webmaster, I've come to rely heavily on user-centered design, and I'm finding very few DVD menus that put the user's mentality into their design. The mixes should simply say "For surround systems" or "for stereo systems" because those without surround systems won't know the difference between Dolby Enhanced Mix and Dolby Stereo or whatever crazy verbiage is used.
Post
#81581
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/81581/action/topic#81581
Time
I've played with the settings a bit more, and the B <- G may even be unnecessary. The B <- B brings out more detail in things like R2, but less in the Saber. I do think this is a screwed up color correction setting and not a miscolored saber any more. How this got past QC still escapes me.

Okay, here are the screencaps. I said I was too tired, but here they are anyway. Now I'll be able to sleep.

Unretouched shot:
http://216.12.134.120/unretouched.jpg

Posted earlier: G <- Y and B <- G
http://216.12.134.120/y2g-and-g2b.jpg

Alternate version: just G <- Y
http://216.12.134.120/y2g.jpg
Post
#81572
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/81572/action/topic#81572
Time
Big news on the green saber issue.

This evening I installed the demo for Combustion, based on MBJ's rave reviews. Though I'm very comfortable with Photoshop, I was lost with the Combustion interface. But, with most software packages, I'm like a duck in water if left in the pond long enough.

So, I made a sample rip of the DVD ... specifically the Falcon sequence with the infamous green saber.

I was planning to repaint the thing by hand or whatever it took. Then, while randomly hitting buttons with very little thought, trying to figure out the interface, I found a "Discrete color correction" utility in this program, with a curious set of buttons under the heading "rewire." I started playing with these options and found if you changed these two settings

G <- Y
B <- G

The saber is fixed, and the rest of the shot isn't screwed up. That's right!!! Nothing appears wrong (at least, to my untrained eyes) when I "rewire" the composite data in this fashion. Flesh tones look fine. Color balance looks right. NOW tell me that somebody didn't screw up at Lucasfilm. This is the kind of "crossed wires" mistake that the miswired music in the rear channels reeks of. I am 100% convinced now that this is no "deliberate creative decision" as they're purporting. I did absolutely nothing else to the shot. I just mimicked the composite rewiring in said fashion, and the bad "green saber" shots are now a gorgeous blue, without sacrificing the rest of the shot. I'm sure this will screw up other shots in the film that aren't messed up, but this is very, very, very important information. If we can correct the bad shots, then we can use a utility like the software I mentioned a few posts above to splice in the corrected shots.

This photo is a direct output from Combustion. I did nothing from the source video other than rewire these two colors. The output was a TIFF, which I then converted to a JPEG in photoshop for easier posting to the web. That is all. If the shot is too dark or too saturated or whatever, well, that's what some are saying about the disc as a whole, but this matches the surrounding footage, does it not?

Link removed and put in a post below.
Post
#81555
Topic
MagnoliaFan Edits: Ep I &quot;Balance Of The Force&quot;, and Ep II &quot;The Clone War&quot; (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/81555/action/topic#81555
Time
I also invite any of you who have received a freebie to respond in kind. Please pay it forward, as this will ensure that the love gets spread farther and wider. Many of you have been good about this, and with this being the season of giving, make a fellow fan's holiday that much brighter. When somebody asks to get a copy, I'd rather have that user get PM'ed by ten of us offering it than have him knocking on doors for help.
Post
#81556
Topic
Lucasfilm acknowledging fan hate
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/81556/action/topic#81556
Time
I'm waiting for that plot twist that explains why Luke's saber now starts off green in ANH, and then changes to blue. After all, Lucasfilm has confirmed for me in writing that this was a deliberate creative decision and not a technical glitch as I claim.

If this weren't a family-friendly board I'd type a word that begins with "F" and rhymes with "Truckers!"
Post
#81436
Topic
Letter to LFL about DVD Defects (No OT vs SE discussion)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/81436/action/topic#81436
Time
I heard from the BBB today. They forwarded a letter from LFL to me, which was dated December 7th. Here's the bulk of LFL's response:

Quote
We are always impressed by how closely fans watch for the digital enhancements and listen to the many different sound mixes we have made for the STAR WARS movies over the years. However, the changes seen or heard on mix of the of the all-new STAR WARS Trilogy DVD set are the result of deliberate creative decisions, and therefore not technical glitches as [ADigitalMan] claims.

We trust that this addresses [ADigitalMan's] concerns, and we thank him for his interest in STAR WARS.

Sincerely,
Sharron Drake
Business Affairs


Sound familiar? Anyway, the BBB asked if this statisfies my claim or not. Here's my response (some of it posted earlier):

Quote
Thank you very much for forwarding Lucasfilm Limited's reply to my concerns about the Star Wars DVD. I am very concerned, however, that LFL is trying to hide clear production mistakes behind the guise of "deliberate creative decisions." These are quality control problems, pure and simple. In the original Star Wars (Episode IV as it has come to be known), Luke Skywalker always had a blue lightsaber. It was blue in The Empire Strikes Back. Only in Return of the Jedi was his lightsaber green. This is important to the plot. However, the color correction in the new DVD release for Episode IV clearly shows Luke with a green lightsaber. This is clearly a color-correction mistake. It should be fixed.

Likewise, the receding title card at the beginning of Episode IV recedes at a faster pace than before. This neither matches the pace of the other four films in the saga, nor the pace of this film in every other release before now. This is clearly a color-correction mistake. It should be fixed.

Finally, the music in the rear channels were accidentally reversed. This sets up a wholly unnatural sound field, as instruments coming from the front right channel will also be heard in the rear left channel, and vice versa. This is clearly a mixing error. It should be fixed.

I am not arguing ANY of the truly creative decisions that accompanied this release. Far greater changes were made based on deliberate creative decisions, and these have been well documented in the press. The issues I am raising have been discussed on DVD and Star Wars web sites, including the official site, StarWars.com, where a special thread has been established on their message boards for discussing troubleshooting problems on the DVD.

Lucasfilm is attempting to shirk its responsibility to release a quality product by hiding behind this term of "deliberate creative decision." These three points I have brought up are defects in workmanship and quality control. Any company who believes in their products and their consumers would do right and release a corrected product.

To give an analogy: If you bought a brand-new car and the rear speakers were wired in reverse, you would take it back in to be fixed. Or if the fabric on one of your seats didn't quite match the rest of the interior, you would take it back in to be replaced. Or if the timing of the car were just a little off at startup, you would take it in to be repaired. These are all analogous to the defects in the Star Wars disc. Now, if every car rolled off the assembly line with these problems, there would be a massive recall announced to correct the problems. Unfortunately, sometimes car manufacturers must be forced by the government or consumer advocacy groups to enact such a recall. This is where you, the Better Business Bureau, come in.

Please continue to pursue this matter on my behalf, and on behalf of the millions who spent their hard-earned money on this DVD set.

Thank you,
--[ADigitalMan]


Have you complained lately?
Post
#81194
Topic
Director's Cuts?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/81194/action/topic#81194
Time
I agree that so long as the original verision is available, then DCs or SEs are fine. James Cameron understood the difference between a DC and a SE and he was adamant about the right term being applied to his releases. He always took responsibility for his theatrical releases as his own edit, despite how much studio pressure was on him to make the edits. It's why the Alien Director's Cut is a misnomer, while the Aliens Special Edition is properly termed. Ridley Scott got his preferred cut into the the theater, and then 25 years later created a SE out of bonus footage and better skill as an editor. The Alien Directors Cut is really the Alien Special Edition and should be called such. The Blade Runner Director's Cut is a true director's cut, because he never wanted the voiceover (which I like) nor the happy ending (which I hate). Too bad Blade Runner's theatrical cut isn't officially released onto DVD.

Side note/Gripe: What really pisses me off about DVD marketing is when all of these so-called "special editions" are released that are in no way different from the theatrical release. Having a bunch of great bonus features does not make it a "special edition." That just makes it a good DVD. Put in one different shot and its a special edition.

I think that some grey area exists with respect to the mattes around FX shots. Cleaning up the mattes was more an issue of computer-based color correction and matching, rather than changing a shot. After all, the mattes didn't show up on the silver screen, only on the TV screen. Lightsaber corrections, as much as they were needed in ANH, are still changes, though, and probably deserve the SE designation. I'm on the fence here.

Adding in deleted scenes, swapping shots, and screwing with existing ones make a SE.

Lucas should be labelling the Star Wars DVD as the 2004 Special Edition. He should have make a friggin' seamless branching disc that had all three editions available. If T2 could do it five years ago, Lucas could have and should have done it now. Arrogant revisionism, plain and simple.
Post
#81193
Topic
The Curse of the Blue Lightsaber
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/81193/action/topic#81193
Time
Anakin and Obi-Wan have both lost their sabers by the time they are sentenced in the Arena. They're given loaners by N'Sync when all the Jedi show up. Hence, one has a blue one and one has a green one. Commander Courage's analysis is correct. Furthermore, Anakin and Obi-Wan both lose their own blue sabers on Geonosis. Obi-Wan when he is captured; Anakin's gets destroyed on the conveyer belt in the Droid foundry.
Post
#81101
Topic
MagnoliaFan Edits: Ep I &quot;Balance Of The Force&quot;, and Ep II &quot;The Clone War&quot; (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/81101/action/topic#81101
Time
Hmmm ... The file should look the same regardless of the burner, assuming the file is the same source. Is your other version sourced from the XVid Rip instead of direct from DVD? The first time I saw this, I'd downloaded the XVid and reauthored to DVD. There was a LOT of quality loss when using the XVid source (I think the reauthored version of the movie was only about 2GB, which is WAY lower than the source) but I'd be surprised that Rik's video is any different from my own. Curious indeed.

The XVids are a great way to download stuff online just because of how much bandwidth it saves. Quality is about like VHS, which is still okay for most online applications.
Post
#80915
Topic
Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/80915/action/topic#80915
Time
I'm testing out Womble's MPEG Video Wizard and it seems to be doing the trick fairly well. I'm working on reinserting Shaw at the moment. The software is reading the M2V and appears to be writing its ouput in the same format. The little that I read on this tool did tout it as having M2V editing capabilities.

Are there any captures of the LaptNek sequence out there? I'm even considering and experiment, using the album version of LaptiNek and re-editing the special edition Jedi Rocks video footage over it. However, I'd prefer to just find a good transfer of the movie version of LaptiNek and reinsert it as it was originally presented.

Update:
I screwed around with this for several days, dealing with a strange A/V sync that I couldn't figure out. Finally, I ran the "Fix GOP Errors" utility and it brought the video stream back in sync with the audio streams. From there I used MPEG Video Wizard to do some frame accurate editing, cutting out Hayden and replacing Shaw from the rip that was posted earlier. I output the video stream and it stayed in sync. Because I only used the actual 3 shots of Shaw & company, if there is any color drift, it isn't noticible. The in-between shots of Luke & Leia still come from the DVD and thus look nice, and the "ghost" effect on Anakin, Yoda and Obi-Wan masks any color difference, at least to my eyes.

I didn't pull out "Wesa Free" yet because I didn't want to dork around with the 5.1 audio yet. That said, I may tackle reinserting Lapti-Nek next in a custom fashion. I'm looking into the feasability of using the album version of the song (since it's the only one available) and re-editing the "Jedi Rocks" video around the audio. It may make for a unique way to see the movie. It should be fun, if nothing else. I think it'll be easier to pull and replace an entire segment like this instead of the heavy-sound-fx laden "Wesa Free" ending.
Post
#80882
Topic
DVD burner Buying Help
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/80882/action/topic#80882
Time
I'd recommend getting an internal IDE drive, then getting an firewire enclosure for it. It would give you the ultimate flexibility to either make it internal or external. Of course, this is all that many of the externals are anyway. You may also want to do the same with a hard drive so you can store your most common burns if you become a seeder of any sort. I've found that my second IDE channel is slow as molasses, so I do all my burns from a firewire-enclosed IDE drive to the internal IDE on my primary channel. I think I've had maybe one buffer underrun, and that was due to taxing my CPU on other processes at the same time I was burning.

I do not have a dual-layer (DL) burner (yet), but I'd recommend one, given that they're pretty inexpensive and the price of DL media is only dropping. In a year you'll be glad you did this.