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What do you want to happen in the the rest of the ST? — Page 4

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 (Edited)

Scott109 said:
The Force Awakens was a thinly disguised remake of A New Hope

There are a lot of similarities but there are a lot of differences that make it more than some poorly disguised Remake. It’s a soft remake at best.

a less coherent plot

Barely but I agree

and one-dimensional cardboard cutout characters.

You’re going to need to elaborate because Rey, Finn and Kylo Ren were all layered characters. If anyone was lacking in terms of being layered it was Poe.

Finn is far too nice for someone who was conditioned to mercilessly kill innocents from childhood.

I think me and Silverwook more than refuted that point in the other thread.

Rey is far too perfect at everything.

Rey is not perfect at anything; that’s another hyperbolic statement. She’s really good at mechanics but she accidentally released the Rathtars, she’s okay at flying but almost crashed the Falcon BEFORE the chase even started and skidded it across the ground when being chased which is something Han or Luke would do on an off day. Especially considering Han Solo is the man who flew through an asteroid field like it was nothing. She’s easily the worst shot with a blaster on our roster of heroes and the only reason she won the lightsaber duel is because of extenuating circumstances. As it pertains to her abilities in the Force she is a fast learner but then again Luke was able to deflect 3 bolts from a training droid by just being told to stretch out with his feelings and blew up the Death Star.

I prefer the whiny Luke from A New Hope or the creepy Anakin from Attack of the Clones because at least those main characters were imperfect. At least they felt human.

Rey is naive and was reluctant to embrace her destiny. She was scared to death of Kylo Ren. Finn is just a coward who is torn between self preservation and protecting the people he cares about.

And I never wanted to see the badass Han Solo as an old, divorced deadbeat dad forced back into the smuggling business.

Well that’s life sometimes. Personally I’m glad they negated that fairy tale ending in ROTJ though I would have preferred it to be bitter sweet instead of just bitter.

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With The Force Awakens mimicking the original Star Wars so much I’m not sure where else the story could go other than continue to copy the first three films.

I don’t want the rest of the Star Wars tropes to happen. Luke should live. Kylo should have no redemption. No more heroes getting their limbs cut off. No more super weapon surprises.

What I want is the best explanation in the universe for how the old heroes botched things up after Return of the Jedi. I suspect I won’t be getting any of that.

I also want the Empire to be completely and utterly defeated by the end. No sequel-sequel trilogy where they sneak off yet again to come back later.

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I see no evidence Han and Leia are divorced, nor any reason to suspect Han never supported his family.

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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pablumatic said:

With The Force Awakens mimicking the original Star Wars so much I’m not sure where else the story could go other than continue to copy the first three films.

That’s assuming Episodes VIII and IX will be soft remakes as well. Which is something we can’t assume considering how many people didn’t like how TFA was so similar to SW.

Kylo should have no redemption.

I agree wholeheartedly. Makes things more interesting

No more heroes getting their limbs cut off.

Well with Finn getting his back sliced up you may get your wish on that one. Hopefully they continue to experiment with new ways of harming/killing people with a lightsaber.

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All I can really ask for is for the next two films to be entirely different from TESB and ROTJ. Then it would be like an alternate ending to the original Star Wars.

Not enough people read the EU.

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Or at least do what the prequels did and give us the illusion of originality.

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TV’s Frink said:

2018151212 said:

TV’s Frink said:

dahmage said:

IKnowWhatYouDidLastSummer said:

Lord Haseo said:

IKnowWhatYouDidLastSummer said:

Lord Haseo said:

At least these PT fanboys are entertaining.

Sure WE are the fanboys…

Oh I’m sure. Liking fundamentally flawed films just because it happens to have “Star Wars” in the title is indicative of being a fanboy. It’s not like I don’t have issues with the OT or TFA.

Who says we like them just because they are star wars?

So, you just joined …

My favorite thing this time is that he used “allot” again, which I’ve never seen anyone else use.

It’s pretty sad when you have nothing better to do than to keep trying to come back after being banned multiple times.

Not anymore sad then somebody being so obsessed with an asshole that he would note such minor thing. Don’t you have a wife and a kid to take care of…Oh, that right!

You had better explain that, because it sounds pretty shitty. Kind like the other guy who keeps getting banned…hmmmm?

Goodbye!

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Lord Haseo said:

Scott109 said:
The Force Awakens was a thinly disguised remake of A New Hope

There are a lot of similarities but there are a lot of differences that make it more than some poorly disguised remake. It’s a soft remake at best.

a less coherent plot

Barely but I agree

and one-dimensional cardboard cutout characters.

You’re going to need to elaborate because Rey, Finn and Kylo Ren were all layered characters. If anyone was lacking in terms of being layered it was Poe.

Finn is far too nice for someone who was conditioned to mercilessly kill innocents from childhood.

I think me and Silverwook more than refuted that point in the other thread.

Rey is far too perfect at everything.

Rey is not perfect at anything; that’s another hyperbolic statement. She’s really good at mechanics but she accidentally released the Rathtars, she’s okay at flying but almost crashed the Falcon BEFORE the chase even started and skidded it across the ground when being chased which is something Han or Luke would do on an off day. Especially considering Han Solo is the man who flew through an asteroid field like it was nothing. She’s easily the worst shot with a blaster on our roster of heroes and the only reason she won the lightsaber duel is because of extenuating circumstances. As it pertains to her abilities in the Force she is a fast learner but then again Luke was able to deflect 3 bolts from a training droid by just being told to stretch out with his feelings and blew up the Death Star.

I prefer the whiny Luke from A New Hope or the creepy Anakin from Attack of the Clones because at least those main characters were imperfect. At least they felt human.

Rey is naive and was reluctant to embrace her destiny. She was scared to death of Kylo Ren. Finn is just a coward who is torn between self preservation and protecting the people he cares about.

And I never wanted to see the badass Han Solo as an old, divorced deadbeat dad forced back into the smuggling business.

Well that’s life sometimes. Personally I’m glad they negated that fairy tale ending in ROTJ though I would have preferred it to be bitter sweet instead of just bitter.

Perhaps I need to watch the film a second time to give a more objective assessment.

A storm trooper spontaneously deciding to leave the First Order and join the Resistance is equivalent to a member of Hitler Youth deciding to leave Nazi Germany and fight for the Allies. It is conceivable, but his motivation should have been explained better.

Luke was only able to deflect the blasts of the seeker droid and blow up the Death Star as a result of Obi-Wan’s training. Even if Luke trained Rey as a child before Kylo Ren wiped her memory, she should not have been able to subconsciously remember how to perform a Jedi mind trick as her memory was wiped.

If Kylo Ren massacred the New Jedi Order, why was he unable to defeat Rey?

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Scott109 said:
Perhaps I need to watch the film a second time to give a more objective assessment.

You should see any film more than once. Just to reaffirm your position.

A storm trooper spontaneously deciding to leave the First Order and join the Resistance is equivalent to a member of Hitler Youth deciding to leave Nazi Germany and fight for the Allies. It is conceivable, but his motivation should have been explained better.

SilverWook said:

Finn wasn’t conditioned to be evil, (evil people seldom think what they are doing is “evil”) he was conditioned to be obedient, and fed First Order propaganda. Being ordered to slaughter innocents and seeing a fellow trooper die was a major shock to his system.

History is full of people who woke up and realized they were on the wrong side, and tried to do something about it.

They could have prolonged it but there was enough for Finn to defect. Especially since he was about to be reprimanded had he actually submitted his blaster for inspection.

Luke was only able to deflect the blasts of the seeker droid and blow up the Death Star as a result of Obi-Wan’s training. Even if Luke trained Rey as a child before Kylo Ren wiped her memory, she should not have been able to subconsciously remember how to perform a Jedi mind trick as her memory was wiped.

For one blast deflection takes time. More time than just a couple of minutes. And like stated before all Obi-Wan did was tell Luke to stretch out with his feelings and to not trust his eyes. Anyone could have told him that.

As it pertains to Rey if she had her mind wiped like Revan the teaching lying dormant in her mind could have been coming back to her.

If Kylo Ren massacred the New Jedi Order, why was he unable to defeat Rey?

This has been answered on at least one occasion and you’ve ignored it. Hopefully you won’t do so again.

  • He was shot by Chewie’s bowcaster which one shots everything in the film
  • He had his sword arm cut by Finn in their duel
  • He was weakened by the guilt of killing Han (hinted at by the film and confirmed in the novelization)
  • He most likely hasn’t had a serious lightsaber duel in over a decade
  • He hasn’t completed any of his training whether that be Jedi or Dark Side training

as an alternative we also have the fact that Rey could have had her mind wiped and is now reclaiming her suppressed skills.

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Scott109 said:

Perhaps I need to watch the film a second time to give a more objective assessment.

A storm trooper spontaneously deciding to leave the First Order and join the Resistance is equivalent to a member of Hitler Youth deciding to leave Nazi Germany and fight for the Allies. It is conceivable, but his motivation should have been explained better.

Well, Finn was forced into the First Order, unlike the Hitler Youth which joined voluntarily (based on various reason relating to ideologies, propaganda, etc.). But, yes, I can agree that it seems somewhat hasty, but the film didn’t exactly have a lot of time to spare on his motivation, which btw we don’t really know. He might have bee doubtful of the First Order for a very log time.

Scott109 said:

Luke was only able to deflect the blasts of the seeker droid and blow up the Death Star as a result of Obi-Wan’s training. Even if Luke trained Rey as a child before Kylo Ren wiped her memory, she should not have been able to subconsciously remember how to perform a Jedi mind trick as her memory was wiped.

Well, to be devil’s advocate, all Rey did was a mind trick and a Force pull, she hardly did anything fancy like what we’ve seen other Jedi do throughout the films and EU. Even Luke managed to deflect the blasts from the “seeker droid” after no more than a few days after he had learned that the Force was a thing that existed. Also, Ben didn’t give him much more advice and instruction than “feel,” so what it actually takes to do these things are quite debatable. You might even claim that the smaller things rely entirely on will-power and the knowledge that it’s possible. This was after all pretty much all Luke had prior to meeting Yoda.

Scott109 said:

If Kylo Ren massacred the New Jedi Order, why was he unable to defeat Rey?

Well, first of all he was most likely assisted by the Knights of Ren, and secondly an emotionally compromised man with a large bullet hole (I seem to recall Wookiee bow-casters shooting actual metallic bolts) in his guts isn’t exactly going to be able to fight to his full abilities.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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I want Hux to actually do something. Perhaps while Snoke is training Kylo Ren, he cannot be reached, forcing Hux to take matters into his own hands and consolidate power under him, while Phasma (assuming she survived TFA) becomes his enforcer/bodyguard, a la the Tarkin/Darth Vader relation in ANH.

I feel like the governor roles in the movies were underutilized after ANH, ending up more as obstacles to Vader than actual villains with their own agenda. I’d like to see them becoming a meaningful threat again.

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The “Kylo was able to kill the rest of the Jedi so he should have also been able to easily defeat Rey” argument doesn’t hold any water because we have no idea what the status of the Jedi Order was when he took it down. It’s my belief that Luke might have been reluctant to teach his pupils how to use the Force violently, at least in the early part of their training; I even have doubts that he’d taught any of his students how to build a lightsaber at the time Kylo slaughtered everyone. Again, this is purely my conjecture, but there’s nothing in the film that contradicts this so it’s entirely possible. I think Luke was teaching his new Jedi a more peaceful, meditative approach to the Force than the whole warrior monk thing we saw in the old Jedi Order, and that Kylo learned his violent abilities from Snoke, who we know was already tempting him before he turned on the Jedi. So when he turns up to kill everyone, he’s the only guy with a lightsaber (which Snoke taught him to make, which explains why it’s such a different style than the one Luke built for himself), and the other students are totally unprepared for the confrontation. The way I think it went down, Kylo Ren was essentially a school shooter.

And the idea that he was able to do this simply because he was the only guy in the room with a lightsaber carries over to his status in the First Order. People complain that he’s been intimidating and effective up until the confrontation with Rey and that it’s out of character for him suddenly to lose his command of the situation at that point, but really all we’ve seen to demonstrate his power to that point is him bullying non-Force users. He’s a big fish in a small pond until Rey shows up, and he’s completely thrown off his game when he has to face someone else with access to the same kind of power he uses to lord over all the helpless normals.

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I don’t really have anything specific I’d like to see in the next films aside from a bit more explanation about the First Order. If it’s done well, it’s done well.

If somebody put a gun to my head, I would say:

I’d like to see Rey have a REAL brush with the dark side. I don’t want her to turn (and I doubt Disney would want that either (but again, if it’s done well then that’s fine)), but I want to see a struggle. Something along the lines of learning the dark side in order to use it AGAINST the villains is a fun trope used successfully in the past (think The One Ring or the old Tales of the Jedi and Dark Empire comics).

I want to see Luke being awesome. Think Zatoichi.

IF Kylo Ren is redeemed (which I don’t think is going to happen), have him do it in the second film and have him survive for the third, only because we haven’t seen that yet in a SW story. But I’d much rather him stay a baddie.

I think that’s it.

Oh wait! Have BB-8 do more than just roll around. I love that little droid, but he hasn’t done a whole lot besides follow the heroes. R2 was always very active in the adventures.

As for Rey and Luke learning the force, I always took it as A) Knowing that the force exists, and B) Having the willpower and faith to use it. How many of us tried to use the force to grab a toy when we were little kids? Unfortunately, the force doesn’t exist in the real world. 😛

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eiyosus said:

…How many of us tried to use the force to grab a toy when we were little kids? Unfortunately, the force doesn’t exist in the real world. 😛

Uh…ya, when we were little kids. That’s the last time I tried it too…

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SnooPac said:

eiyosus said:

…How many of us tried to use the force to grab a toy when we were little kids? Unfortunately, the force doesn’t exist in the real world. 😛

Uh…ya, when we were little kids. That’s the last time I tried it too…

We all have to grow up at some point.

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IKnowWhatYouDidLastSummer said:

SnooPac said:

eiyosus said:

…How many of us tried to use the force to grab a toy when we were little kids? Unfortunately, the force doesn’t exist in the real world. 😛

Uh…ya, when we were little kids. That’s the last time I tried it too…

We all have to grow up at some point.

When I started to grow up, I realized the PT sucks

Prequel Fan-Edit thread: http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Yet-another-series-of-prequel-edits/id/17329

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SnooPac said:

eiyosus said:

…How many of us tried to use the force to grab a toy when we were little kids? Unfortunately, the force doesn’t exist in the real world. 😛

Uh…ya, when we were little kids. That’s the last time I tried it too…

Back when I still believed in paranormal abilities, I tried developing telekinesis right into my early twenties.

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Scott109 said:

Honestly, I could not care less what transpires in Episodes VIII and IX.

After watching the juvenile fan fiction trash film The Force Awakens, which was without question the single worst movie I have ever seen, there is nothing in the world which could convince me to watch Episodes VIII and IX.

Bahahahaha. Guess you haven’t seen many movies. This film was honestly on a pure technical level the most well-made Star Wars film to date. Now is it my favorite? No. And you don’t have to like it at all. But to say it’s the worst movie you’ve ever seen is just beyond ridiculous. I think the prequels suck, but none of them even come close to the worst movie I have ever seen. Even Batman and Robin, mentioned here as an example of a worse film, doesn’t come close. Wake me up when you’ve seen The Room or any Ed Wood film.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

SnooPac said:

eiyosus said:

…How many of us tried to use the force to grab a toy when we were little kids? Unfortunately, the force doesn’t exist in the real world. 😛

Uh…ya, when we were little kids. That’s the last time I tried it too…

Back when I still believed in paranormal abilities, I tried developing telekinesis right into my early twenties.

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Density said:

Scott109 said:

Honestly, I could not care less what transpires in Episodes VIII and IX.

After watching the juvenile fan fiction trash film The Force Awakens, which was without question the single worst movie I have ever seen, there is nothing in the world which could convince me to watch Episodes VIII and IX.

Bahahahaha. Guess you haven’t seen many movies. This film was honestly on a pure technical level the most well-made Star Wars film to date. Now is it my favorite? No. And you don’t have to like it at all. But to say it’s the worst movie you’ve ever seen is just beyond ridiculous. I think the prequels suck, but none of them even come close to the worst movie I have ever seen. Even Batman and Robin, mentioned here as an example of a worse film, doesn’t come close. Wake me up when you’ve seen The Room or any Ed Wood film.

The Room? Bad?

Not enough people read the EU.

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LuckyGungan2001 said:

Density said:

Scott109 said:

Honestly, I could not care less what transpires in Episodes VIII and IX.

After watching the juvenile fan fiction trash film The Force Awakens, which was without question the single worst movie I have ever seen, there is nothing in the world which could convince me to watch Episodes VIII and IX.

Bahahahaha. Guess you haven’t seen many movies. This film was honestly on a pure technical level the most well-made Star Wars film to date. Now is it my favorite? No. And you don’t have to like it at all. But to say it’s the worst movie you’ve ever seen is just beyond ridiculous. I think the prequels suck, but none of them even come close to the worst movie I have ever seen. Even Batman and Robin, mentioned here as an example of a worse film, doesn’t come close. Wake me up when you’ve seen The Room or any Ed Wood film.

The Room? Bad?

Uh… yeah.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0368226/

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Density said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

SnooPac said:

eiyosus said:

…How many of us tried to use the force to grab a toy when we were little kids? Unfortunately, the force doesn’t exist in the real world. 😛

Uh…ya, when we were little kids. That’s the last time I tried it too…

Back when I still believed in paranormal abilities, I tried developing telekinesis right into my early twenties.

Don’t worry. I didn’t try very often.

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Density said:

LuckyGungan2001 said:

Density said:

Scott109 said:

Honestly, I could not care less what transpires in Episodes VIII and IX.

After watching the juvenile fan fiction trash film The Force Awakens, which was without question the single worst movie I have ever seen, there is nothing in the world which could convince me to watch Episodes VIII and IX.

Bahahahaha. Guess you haven’t seen many movies. This film was honestly on a pure technical level the most well-made Star Wars film to date. Now is it my favorite? No. And you don’t have to like it at all. But to say it’s the worst movie you’ve ever seen is just beyond ridiculous. I think the prequels suck, but none of them even come close to the worst movie I have ever seen. Even Batman and Robin, mentioned here as an example of a worse film, doesn’t come close. Wake me up when you’ve seen The Room or any Ed Wood film.

The Room? Bad?

Uh… yeah.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0368226/

The Room is a genius psychological thriller, and purely demonstrates what happens when a nice man has so many bad things happen to him. It’s really quite tragic.

Not enough people read the EU.