The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 139

I’ll never be able to find the direct quote but Lucas wanted the original Star Wars to feel like it was beginning ‘part way through’ a story.

This mentality of under-explaining rather than over-explaining has persisted (Snoke) and it definitely wont be something that Lucasfilm would likely ever want to change.

Why?

Because it gives them loads of creative leeway to later “fill in the blanks”. With prequels, sequels, stand alones, TV shows, video games, books, comics, etc. It’s genius.

yhwx said:

NeverarGreat said:

DominicCobb said:

Technically we don’t know at the end of ROTJ that the Empire has fallen or that there will be a New Republic. That’s actually established in the crawl of TFA.

But that’s a good assumption to make, based on the celebratory atmosphere on multiple planets, including the capitol world.

Come on. That’s special edition talk!

He’s got you there. Get outta here!

Eugh, it’s gotten to the point where I honestly forget about that SE shit.

If we’re getting specific with “official,” canonically, the celebrations meant basically nothing.

But I’m not really arguing that the Empire didn’t fall after ROTJ, just that what happened after was never made definite.

NeverarGreat said:

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

NeverarGreat said:

DominicCobb said:

Technically we don’t know at the end of ROTJ that the Empire has fallen or that there will be a New Republic. That’s actually established in the crawl of TFA.

But that’s a good assumption to make, based on the celebratory atmosphere on multiple planets, including the capitol world.

Come on. That’s special edition talk!

He’s got you there. Get outta here!

Hey, you don’t need to like it, but those are the official movies for most people.

I don’t care about most people.

Meaning everyone but me.

Collipso said:

TV’s Frink said:

Mrebo said:

NeverarGreat said:

Random refrigerator thought, but when did the Resistance come into possession of a bombing fleet? Was it before or after the attack on Starkiller Base, where the entire mission was to hit a large, stationary target with as many bombs as possible? Leia refers to the bombing fleet as if it’s a treasured part of the Resistance, and there are dedicated Resistance crews and everything.

For that matter, when did they get that cruiser and those support ships and their crews? Did they just happen to arrive right after the events of TFA? It’s heavily implied that all of the Resistance attack ships are devoted to the Starkiller assault, and they bemoan that they have no chance without the Republic fleet (which is comprised mostly of capital ships). If they had a massive cruiser the whole time, the Leia would surely have used it to match FO forces at the Takodana battle instead of arriving later in a dinky transport.

I wish I could turn my brain off and enjoy this movie, but it feels like I’m supposed to question these things based on TLJ’s technical plot that draws attention to just this sort of thing.

It’s like the reason people want to know who Snoke is. It’s not because Snoke must be so important in his own right. We want to know how the galaxy-wide celebrations (is that heretical to say here?) at the end of ROTJ gave way to…a new Empire(?) with limitless resources. We assume it’s because of Snoke. And so we want to know how it happened.

Who was the Emperor? How did the Empire get how it was in the OT? The OT didn’t answer these questions and people aren’t complaining about that now.

I don’t think it’s fair to compare those two situations because there were no previously established realities for the situation in the galaxy to challenge. The way it went with TFA is as if TPM was the last Star Wars movie everyone saw and then they make ANH. People would go “wtf? what happened to the republic? to the separatists? what’s this empire?”

We had a established world: the empire has fallen, republic established. TFA tried to push the ANH situation down our throats but the world building wasn’t good enough - they didn’t give us any reasons or didn’t explain what is the first order or what was the republic or how we went from RotJ to the same ANH scenario. That’s what the movie doesn’t explain. It’s not about giving Snoke’s backstory I don’t think (even though that would be interesting once you realise he’s a sith and by the end of RotJ the sith were extinct), but it’s about what happened to the galaxy to get to the point where it was in TFA.

edit: Sorry, this was a really hard post to understand, sorry if it made no sense, it was badly written and not well thought out.

I think, again, that the problem with TLJ lies with TFA. It isn’t as good as some like to think. The crawl is one of the worst offenders. It doesn’t lay out the situation in the galaxy like the others. It just fails and then the movie fails in other ways and ends in a bad spot. I still consider TFA to be the worst of the films to date. It is the only one I have never truly enjoyed.

yotsuya said:

Collipso said:

TV’s Frink said:

Mrebo said:

NeverarGreat said:

Random refrigerator thought, but when did the Resistance come into possession of a bombing fleet? Was it before or after the attack on Starkiller Base, where the entire mission was to hit a large, stationary target with as many bombs as possible? Leia refers to the bombing fleet as if it’s a treasured part of the Resistance, and there are dedicated Resistance crews and everything.

For that matter, when did they get that cruiser and those support ships and their crews? Did they just happen to arrive right after the events of TFA? It’s heavily implied that all of the Resistance attack ships are devoted to the Starkiller assault, and they bemoan that they have no chance without the Republic fleet (which is comprised mostly of capital ships). If they had a massive cruiser the whole time, the Leia would surely have used it to match FO forces at the Takodana battle instead of arriving later in a dinky transport.

I wish I could turn my brain off and enjoy this movie, but it feels like I’m supposed to question these things based on TLJ’s technical plot that draws attention to just this sort of thing.

It’s like the reason people want to know who Snoke is. It’s not because Snoke must be so important in his own right. We want to know how the galaxy-wide celebrations (is that heretical to say here?) at the end of ROTJ gave way to…a new Empire(?) with limitless resources. We assume it’s because of Snoke. And so we want to know how it happened.

Who was the Emperor? How did the Empire get how it was in the OT? The OT didn’t answer these questions and people aren’t complaining about that now.

I don’t think it’s fair to compare those two situations because there were no previously established realities for the situation in the galaxy to challenge. The way it went with TFA is as if TPM was the last Star Wars movie everyone saw and then they make ANH. People would go “wtf? what happened to the republic? to the separatists? what’s this empire?”

We had a established world: the empire has fallen, republic established. TFA tried to push the ANH situation down our throats but the world building wasn’t good enough - they didn’t give us any reasons or didn’t explain what is the first order or what was the republic or how we went from RotJ to the same ANH scenario. That’s what the movie doesn’t explain. It’s not about giving Snoke’s backstory I don’t think (even though that would be interesting once you realise he’s a sith and by the end of RotJ the sith were extinct), but it’s about what happened to the galaxy to get to the point where it was in TFA.

edit: Sorry, this was a really hard post to understand, sorry if it made no sense, it was badly written and not well thought out.

I think, again, that the problem with TLJ lies with TFA. It isn’t as good as some like to think. The crawl is one of the worst offenders. It doesn’t lay out the situation in the galaxy like the others. It just fails and then the movie fails in other ways and ends in a bad spot. I still consider TFA to be the worst of the films to date. It is the only one I have never truly enjoyed.

I’ve been criticizing TFA since day 1. Even TLJ Luke is TFA’s fault to an extent. It’s only better than TPM for me.

Collipso said:

It’s only better than TPM for me.

Every time I start to like you again…

lovelikewinter said:

Collipso said:

yotsuya said:

Collipso said:

TV’s Frink said:

Mrebo said:

NeverarGreat said:

Random refrigerator thought, but when did the Resistance come into possession of a bombing fleet? Was it before or after the attack on Starkiller Base, where the entire mission was to hit a large, stationary target with as many bombs as possible? Leia refers to the bombing fleet as if it’s a treasured part of the Resistance, and there are dedicated Resistance crews and everything.

For that matter, when did they get that cruiser and those support ships and their crews? Did they just happen to arrive right after the events of TFA? It’s heavily implied that all of the Resistance attack ships are devoted to the Starkiller assault, and they bemoan that they have no chance without the Republic fleet (which is comprised mostly of capital ships). If they had a massive cruiser the whole time, the Leia would surely have used it to match FO forces at the Takodana battle instead of arriving later in a dinky transport.

I wish I could turn my brain off and enjoy this movie, but it feels like I’m supposed to question these things based on TLJ’s technical plot that draws attention to just this sort of thing.

It’s like the reason people want to know who Snoke is. It’s not because Snoke must be so important in his own right. We want to know how the galaxy-wide celebrations (is that heretical to say here?) at the end of ROTJ gave way to…a new Empire(?) with limitless resources. We assume it’s because of Snoke. And so we want to know how it happened.

Who was the Emperor? How did the Empire get how it was in the OT? The OT didn’t answer these questions and people aren’t complaining about that now.

I don’t think it’s fair to compare those two situations because there were no previously established realities for the situation in the galaxy to challenge. The way it went with TFA is as if TPM was the last Star Wars movie everyone saw and then they make ANH. People would go “wtf? what happened to the republic? to the separatists? what’s this empire?”

We had a established world: the empire has fallen, republic established. TFA tried to push the ANH situation down our throats but the world building wasn’t good enough - they didn’t give us any reasons or didn’t explain what is the first order or what was the republic or how we went from RotJ to the same ANH scenario. That’s what the movie doesn’t explain. It’s not about giving Snoke’s backstory I don’t think (even though that would be interesting once you realise he’s a sith and by the end of RotJ the sith were extinct), but it’s about what happened to the galaxy to get to the point where it was in TFA.

edit: Sorry, this was a really hard post to understand, sorry if it made no sense, it was badly written and not well thought out.

I think, again, that the problem with TLJ lies with TFA. It isn’t as good as some like to think. The crawl is one of the worst offenders. It doesn’t lay out the situation in the galaxy like the others. It just fails and then the movie fails in other ways and ends in a bad spot. I still consider TFA to be the worst of the films to date. It is the only one I have never truly enjoyed.

I’ve been criticizing TFA since day 1. Even TLJ Luke is TFA’s fault to an extent. It’s only better than TPM for me.

Really, those piles of garbage AOTC and ROTS are worse? TFA at least had a good script and acting.

And likable characters and good pacing and better production values and more interesting themes and better music and

TV’s Frink said:

Collipso said:

It’s only better than TPM for me.

Every time I start to like you again…

HAHAHA I knew you’d read it and say something like that! In fact I only said it because of you.

In all honesty, I watched TFA recently and it pleased me more than any of the prequels ever could, but not as much as any of the OT, TLJ or R1. I’d say it’s above RotS, but not by a margin as big as yours I don’t think.

Collipso said:

TV’s Frink said:

Collipso said:

It’s only better than TPM for me.

Every time I start to like you again…

HAHAHA I knew you’d read it and say something like that! In fact I only said it because of you.

Well played.

TFA didn’t make a bid deal about Rey’s parents, Rey did. Rey’s parents are important to her in both TFA and TLJ.

DominicCobb said:

TFA didn’t make a big deal about Rey’s parents, Rey did and people on the internet did.

WYSHS

TV’s Frink said:

DominicCobb said:

TFA didn’t make a big deal about Rey’s parents, Rey did and people on the internet did.

WYSHS

True. Point being though that only Rey cares and this doesn’t change in TLJ. Anytime she brings up Jakku in TFA people think she’s crazy for still caring. Maz outright tells her to forget about her parents.

Mrebo said:

DominicCobb said:

TV’s Frink said:

DominicCobb said:

TFA didn’t make a big deal about Rey’s parents, Rey did and people on the internet did.

WYSHS

True. Point being though that only Rey cares and this doesn’t change in TLJ. Anytime she brings up Jakku in TFA people think she’s crazy for still caring. Maz outright tells her to forget about her parents.

Making Rey’s parents an issue was a creative choice in the film. Rey’s pining for her parents was the chip on which the story salsa was conveyed, but she is not independent from the film. TLJ made a point not only that her parents didn’t care about her (which was sort of obvious) but that they were nobody. And why would we have thought they were somebody? Because the film set up that intrigue - deliberately exploiting expectations of people on the internet, to be sure. A film attempting to stand apart from the OT shouldn’t do that.

This point for me is more what Luke would call a “a cheap trick” but it’s there. Can’t pretend it’s solely the fault of fans or that dastardly rogue Rey.

No. No one in TFA asks who Rey’s parents are, not even her. In fact, there’s no reason to believe in TFA that she doesn’t know who they are. They are mentioned a few times, but the question mark is all audience. They are only important for Rey’s character. And in that regard, they are important, sure. Rey is waiting for them. This aspect informs her arc in both films. But there is nothing in TFA that suggests that her parents must be, themselves important, beyond their relationship to Rey. Nothing at all.

If you thought they might be somebody, it’s only because Rey thought so too and hoped so. Which makes her learning that they’re nobody devastating in the same way that Luke learning that his father didn’t die and is no longer a Jedi did in ESB. And that’s a good thing.

Mrebo said:

DominicCobb said:

Mrebo said:

DominicCobb said:

TV’s Frink said:

DominicCobb said:

TFA didn’t make a big deal about Rey’s parents, Rey did and people on the internet did.

WYSHS

True. Point being though that only Rey cares and this doesn’t change in TLJ. Anytime she brings up Jakku in TFA people think she’s crazy for still caring. Maz outright tells her to forget about her parents.

Making Rey’s parents an issue was a creative choice in the film. Rey’s pining for her parents was the chip on which the story salsa was conveyed, but she is not independent from the film. TLJ made a point not only that her parents didn’t care about her (which was sort of obvious) but that they were nobody. And why would we have thought they were somebody? Because the film set up that intrigue - deliberately exploiting expectations of people on the internet, to be sure. A film attempting to stand apart from the OT shouldn’t do that.

This point for me is more what Luke would call a “a cheap trick” but it’s there. Can’t pretend it’s solely the fault of fans or that dastardly rogue Rey.

No. No one in TFA asks who Rey’s parents are, not even her. In fact, there’s no reason to believe in TFA that she doesn’t know who they are. They are mentioned a few times, but the question mark is all audience. They are only important for Rey’s character. And in that regard, they are important, sure. Rey is waiting for them. This aspect informs her arc in both films. But there is nothing in TFA that suggests that her parents must be, themselves important, beyond their relationship to Rey. Nothing at all.

If you thought they might be somebody, it’s only because Rey thought so too and hoped so. Which makes her learning that they’re nobody devastating in the same way that Luke learning that his father didn’t die and is no longer a Jedi did in ESB. And that’s a good thing.

I didn’t think that Rey thought her parents were somebody important. You take a mystery surrounding them (who were they? why did they leave?) combined with her enormous power, and of course the audience is going to dwell on that question. As noted in my edit, I was hoping that her parents weren’t important. The movie was winking at us to say that maybe they are.

There are unexplained things which leaves the audience to question. Sure, that’s fine. But there’s nothing in TFA to suggest her powers and her parentage are related.

Thing is though, TLJ does answer these questions:

Q) Who are Rey’s parents?
A) Nobody

Q) Are Rey’s parents the reason why she has the force?
A) No, she doesn’t need special parents to have the force

Q) Why is she strong in the force?
A) Because that’s the way the force works