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Info: Quantity vs Quality Discussion on OT preservation projects

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Please be aware that this is not a criticism of any of the preservation releases out there. I’m glad that so many people are passionate enough to preserve what we can on DVD. This is merely a thread to collect opinions on the subject.

My opinion:
Whilst building up my collection of Star Wars preservation releases I’ve noticed a couple of releases that have found it necessary to try and reencode 3 hours of material onto 1 DVD-R. I commend the authors passion to preserve so much material but I’m a stickler for quality.

Preservation is not only about saving material, it’s also about attempting to retain the quality of the material. I would rather have 3 hours of footage spread over 2 discs.

Not wanting to blow my own trumpet, but when i release a disc, the footage is exactly how it was captured with no reencoding.

This will be tested soon when i hopefully release the ‘Science Of Star Wars’ series. These are taken from the 16x9 HDTV dumps recently made available. There will be some reencoding from the raw captures to get them all onto a single disc, BUT, if I think the quality of the image has suffered because of this, I’ll release them as a 2-Disc set.

This is not a dig at anyone in particular, but a comment on the scene as i view it at the moment.

I look forward to reading your opinions on the subject.

This of course does NOT apply to the guys and gals who are doing a valiant job in preserving the Original Trilogy. I’m talking about the documentary and related discs.

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I voted Quantity, just for the fact that of the Fan Preservation projects i've encountered which do pack in the material onto one disc, it's because the original source was subpar. (VHS-EP) Since there was no original source of current home system quality, why not provide more material at a lesser quality. But if your goal is to Preserve, in the best means feasible, then sure Quality. But I'd rather have the program (even in 120x90) then not have the program. Anything pre-PT, we're lucky to have individuals like yourself who had Beta's, I personally didn't have a VCR until the 90s, i missed the chance to preserve the OT stuff, so getting the chance to see any program in whatever quality is the best I could hope for.
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I tend to agree with none. For distribution, there's no point in encoding a cap from a VHS source to DVD res at 720x480 @ 8000kbps. It's a waste of bandwidth. CVD res of 352x480 @ 2500kbps is adequate and much more efficient, and has the added advantage that it is DVD compliant so can be moved to DVDR later if desired without re-encoding.

For archival purposes, i.e. keeping a digital master for preservation purposes, then I would suggest DV format which is lessy lossy than MPEG-2.

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Originally posted by: Moth3r I tend to agree with none. For distribution, there's no point in encoding a cap from a VHS source to DVD res at 720x480 @ 8000kbps. It's a waste of bandwidth. CVD res of 352x480 @ 2500kbps is adequate and much more efficient, and has the added advantage that it is DVD compliant so can be moved to DVDR later if desired without re-encoding.

I agree with none in the respect that it's better have a file in any quality rather than not at all, but in my experience in capping, a VHS or BETA capture, however old, at 720x480/576 at 8 or 9 mb/s ALWAYS yealds a better image than 352x480 @ 2500kbps. Agreed, it is adequate, but I'm a stickler for quality.

For archival purposes, i.e. keeping a digital master for preservation purposes, then I would suggest DV format which is lessy lossy than MPEG-2.


Totally agree. That's what my archive is stored on.

BTW, I've just got my copy of your Star Wars disc Moth3r. FANTASTIC!

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"then I would suggest DV format which is lessy lossy than MPEG-2."

DV really isn't the greatest format either. There's many good reasons why the X0 team chose Huffy.

The funny thing is, quantity is easily attainable, but extras should be on separate discs (With the exception of one or two easter eggs). When I mastered my last version, I recompiled the MPEG four times to get the movie to fill the DVD as much as possible. This is tedious, as the process can take 24 hours each time, but it's certainly worth the effort. Rikter gave it high praise.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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I've choosen for quality. I just want the movies in the best quality possible.

For all the extra material I'm a little less critical. But when I encode that kind of material I just try to get a as clean as possible copy to get maximum quality, with the minimal space.

A new release of Star Wars is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get.

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Its that perfect balance that makes it perfect
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Easy. The quality is the most important.
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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I voted quality, but I do think there's a limit. I don't want three DVDs holding what could fit on one with little loss of quality
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I'm no fan of MULTI DVD's as they are always random and convoluted. I like everything to have it's own DVD that's why I release all my stuff one one DVD EVEN if it's only 1.3 gigs each Show or Special deserves it's own DVD. So yes, quality always, I mean why drink Coors or Bud when you could drink Guinness or Railyard?

“My skill are no longer as Mad as the once were” RiK

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Originally posted by: Rikter
I mean why drink Coors or Bud when you could drink Guinness or Railyard?


Cheers to that!
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Railyard? LOL...

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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I'm with Rikter on the idea of everything having its own DVD. I like looking up on my shelf and seeing each item with its own spine telling me what it is. I hate having stuff scattered all over various discs so that I forget which one is where. Also, I do want my discs to be a preservation of the best possible quality (within reason) that can be had. I want these to be my *permanent* copies that I watch for enjoyment.

Of course, the single disc idea is for when we're talking about a feature that's at least 45 minutes to an hour long. When babyhum put out Heroes/Villains, they were both combined on one disc. Firstly, they are both short, so quality doesn't suffer when they're put on one disc; and secondly, they really just belong together. Another example of that is the Gonzo "Making Of" discs: two features per disc. That works well, not only because they're all very similar, but also because the first two were released together at one point anyway, and the second two are mostly Jedi so they make a great pair.

Obviously when dealing with commercials, trailers, and short things like that, they will need to be grouped together or on a disc with a main feature. I like them to be grouped in a way that makes sense, either chronologically (they were aired around the same time as the feature), or by subject matter (they somehow relate to the feature, or are similar in some way). Putting a copy of the 1978 Donnie & Marie Star Wars special on a disc with an Episode III trailer and a featurette about the 1997 Special Editions, say, would just not fit. Putting it alongside the Bob Hope Star Wars special and the Richard Pryor Star Wars Bar segment definitely would.

I also like to keep my OT and Prequel-Era material separate. Perhaps it helps me sometimes pretend they're from alternate universes. Even the Special Edition OT stuff is kind of a grey area, and I tend to lump it in with Prequel-Era more often than not. Rule of thumb for me: if it's 70s-80s it goes in one place, and if it's 90s-00s it goes in another.

So I guess my vote is: I'd rather have a not-full DVD with like material on it in high quality than a DVD crammed with stuff that's dissimilar, lower-quality that what's available, or both.

--SKot

Projects:
Return Of The Ewok and Other Short Films (with OCPmovie) [COMPLETED]
Preserving the…cringe…Star Wars Holiday Special [COMPLETED]
The Star Wars TV Commercials Project [DORMANT]
Felix the Cat 1919-1930 early film shorts preservation [ONGOING]
Lights Out! (lost TV anthology shows) [ONGOING]
Iznogoud (1995 animated series) English audio preservation [ONGOING]