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All Things Star Trek — Page 197

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DominicCobb said:

Shame me all you want but arguably if you’re introducing a SW fan to Trek, the best entry point is the 09 film. Depends on the person though, as always.

Oh sure, no arguments there. It’s what pulled me in, after all. Most of the people I’d ever attempt this with have seen the Kelvin movies, they just didn’t dig in any further. The thought experiment is really more “what’s the fastest route to a fully satisfying viewing of Khan for a newbie” than “what’s the best way to bring someone in in general.”

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I would seriously consider including a Klingon episode since they’re so integral to the franchise. Errand of Mercy maybe?

Help finish ROTJ: Revisited!

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 (Edited)

Tobar said:

I would seriously consider including a Klingon episode since they’re so integral to the franchise. Errand of Mercy maybe?

+1

TRANSMODERNISM > POSTMODERNISM > MODERNISM > PREMODERNISM

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One thing that I like about pre-STD Trek, especially in our modern world, is the way it depicts the Klingons; their system of values, though different from that of the Federation, is portrayed as one worthy of respect and containing many virtues. If TNG and DS9 were made today there would be some character (probably a woman) trying to show the Klingon’s the error of their ways.

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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I personally hate how Klingons were depicted TNG+. Buncha unbathed Space Vikings so pathologically stupid that it breaks suspension of disbelief that these morons ever managed to evolve beyond the Stone Age, let alone develop FTL travel and build an interstellar empire.

TRANSMODERNISM > POSTMODERNISM > MODERNISM > PREMODERNISM

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D.C. Fontana died yesterday. I might watch a couple of my favorites of her episodes tonight.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

I personally hate how Klingons were depicted TNG+. Buncha unbathed Space Vikings so pathologically stupid that it breaks suspension of disbelief that these morons ever managed to evolve beyond the Stone Age, let alone develop FTL travel and build an interstellar empire.

How are they “morons”?

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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DuracellEnergizer said:

I personally hate how Klingons were depicted TNG+. Buncha unbathed Space Vikings so pathologically stupid that it breaks suspension of disbelief that these morons ever managed to evolve beyond the Stone Age, let alone develop FTL travel and build an interstellar empire.

This is the correct opinion. I wish they stayed like they were in the movies. The Undiscovered Country even showed an intellectual side of the Klingon people that I don’t think was ever explored in any of the TV series afterwards.

Not just Klingon culture though, in particular Worf as a character became worse the longer he existed. At the start of TNG, Worf claims that Klingon culture is completely alien to him, having been raised by humans. I’m not sure how early it started, but at some point the writers decided to make it Worf’s one goal in life to be the most Klingon a Klingon could be. This caused more and more episodes to be fully dedicated to developing Worf’s Klingon ancestry.

Also the bat’leth is stupid. It’s one of the most impractical weapons I’ve ever seen. The knife from The Search For Spock is a much better melee weapon for Klingon warriors.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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Dek Rollins said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

I personally hate how Klingons were depicted TNG+. Buncha unbathed Space Vikings so pathologically stupid that it breaks suspension of disbelief that these morons ever managed to evolve beyond the Stone Age, let alone develop FTL travel and build an interstellar empire.

This is the correct opinion. I wish they stayed like they were in the movies. The Undiscovered Country even showed an intellectual side of the Klingon people that I don’t think was ever explored in any of the TV series afterwards.

Not just Klingon culture though, in particular Worf as a character became worse the longer he existed. At the start of TNG, Worf claims that Klingon culture is completely alien to him, having been raised by humans. I’m not sure how early it started, but at some point the writers decided to make it Worf’s one goal in life to be the most Klingon a Klingon could be. This caused more and more episodes to be fully dedicated to developing Worf’s Klingon ancestry.

Also the bat’leth is stupid. It’s one of the most impractical weapons I’ve ever seen. The knife from The Search For Spock is a much better melee weapon for Klingon warriors.

Wrong. The Klingons represent a subversion of the so-called superiority of the Federation way of life.

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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theprequelsrule said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

I personally hate how Klingons were depicted TNG+. Buncha unbathed Space Vikings so pathologically stupid that it breaks suspension of disbelief that these morons ever managed to evolve beyond the Stone Age, let alone develop FTL travel and build an interstellar empire.

How are they “morons”?

Bringing bat’leths to gunfights, for starters.

TRANSMODERNISM > POSTMODERNISM > MODERNISM > PREMODERNISM

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Dek Rollins said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

I personally hate how Klingons were depicted TNG+. Buncha unbathed Space Vikings so pathologically stupid that it breaks suspension of disbelief that these morons ever managed to evolve beyond the Stone Age, let alone develop FTL travel and build an interstellar empire.

This is the correct opinion. I wish they stayed like they were in the movies. The Undiscovered Country even showed an intellectual side of the Klingon people that I don’t think was ever explored in any of the TV series afterwards.

TUC probably had the most complex, nuanced take on the Klingons. Unfortunately, that was the last time those Klingons were featured.

Not just Klingon culture though, in particular Worf as a character became worse the longer he existed. At the start of TNG, Worf claims that Klingon culture is completely alien to him, having been raised by humans. I’m not sure how early it started, but at some point the writers decided to make it Worf’s one goal in life to be the most Klingon a Klingon could be. This caused more and more episodes to be fully dedicated to developing Worf’s Klingon ancestry.

I recall Worf being in “I am Klingon, hear me roar!” mode right from the get-go. This was greatly disappointing to me, 'cause there was plenty of opportunity to explore the “nature vs. nurture” debate with the character, and it all went to waste.

TRANSMODERNISM > POSTMODERNISM > MODERNISM > PREMODERNISM

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 (Edited)

DuracellEnergizer said:

I recall Worf being in “I am Klingon, hear me roar!” mode right from the get-go. This was greatly disappointing to me, 'cause there was plenty of opportunity to explore the “nature vs. nurture” debate with the character, and it all went to waste.

Oh? The ending of the Redemption 2-part episode disagrees with you.

Worf starts out a bit of a reluctant Federation citizen (Starfleet is probably the only viable option for him; where else does warfare take place in the Federation?), but in the end he forms of a synthesis of the two cultures. As does his son IIRC.

There is a lot of Klingon civilization we don’t see, but obviously great honor must go to those who design weapons and other tech associated with warfare - and so much science and tech (in real life too of course) is useful for warfare or was originally designed for warfare. You know, like the internet?

They are shown both in ST6 and other times in the various series to have an appreciation for art (music and drama in particular). Klingon cuisine, despite it’s appearance, is also canonically highly nutritious (and tasty!)

Wow, I never knew I was such a ST nerd!

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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theprequelsrule said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

I recall Worf being in “I am Klingon, hear me roar!” mode right from the get-go. This was greatly disappointing to me, 'cause there was plenty of opportunity to explore the “nature vs. nurture” debate with the character, and it all went to waste.

Oh? The ending of the Redemption 2-part episode disagrees with you.

In my defense, I watched those episodes exactly once, six years ago.

TRANSMODERNISM > POSTMODERNISM > MODERNISM > PREMODERNISM

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DuracellEnergizer said:

theprequelsrule said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

I recall Worf being in “I am Klingon, hear me roar!” mode right from the get-go. This was greatly disappointing to me, 'cause there was plenty of opportunity to explore the “nature vs. nurture” debate with the character, and it all went to waste.

Oh? The ending of the Redemption 2-part episode disagrees with you.

In my defense, I watched those episodes exactly once, six years ago.

Watch them again. They are good stuff.

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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 (Edited)

DuracellEnergizer said:

Dek Rollins said:

Not just Klingon culture though, in particular Worf as a character became worse the longer he existed. At the start of TNG, Worf claims that Klingon culture is completely alien to him, having been raised by humans. I’m not sure how early it started, but at some point the writers decided to make it Worf’s one goal in life to be the most Klingon a Klingon could be. This caused more and more episodes to be fully dedicated to developing Worf’s Klingon ancestry.

I recall Worf being in “I am Klingon, hear me roar!” mode right from the get-go. This was greatly disappointing to me, 'cause there was plenty of opportunity to explore the “nature vs. nurture” debate with the character, and it all went to waste.

The episode I was referring to is “Hide and Q” which is episode 9 of season 1. Worf is granted a Klingon bride by the power of Q, and Worf objects, stating that he has nothing in common with the woman I believe.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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Time

Dek Rollins said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Dek Rollins said:

Not just Klingon culture though, in particular Worf as a character became worse the longer he existed. At the start of TNG, Worf claims that Klingon culture is completely alien to him, having been raised by humans. I’m not sure how early it started, but at some point the writers decided to make it Worf’s one goal in life to be the most Klingon a Klingon could be. This caused more and more episodes to be fully dedicated to developing Worf’s Klingon ancestry.

I recall Worf being in “I am Klingon, hear me roar!” mode right from the get-go. This was greatly disappointing to me, 'cause there was plenty of opportunity to explore the “nature vs. nurture” debate with the character, and it all went to waste.

The episode I was referring to is “Hide and Q” which is episode 9 of season 1. Worf is granted a Klingon bride by the power of Q, and Worf objects, stating that he has nothing in common with the woman I believe.

I’ve got to admit; that female Klingon had a smokin’ bod! And that outfit…

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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Tobar said:

Dek Rollins said:

Also the bat’leth is stupid. It’s one of the most impractical weapons I’ve ever seen. The knife from The Search For Spock is a much better melee weapon for Klingon warriors.

I’ll let the designer of the bat’leth speak for himself.

Still looks cumbersome. And until actually demonstrated in a non-choreographed fight, I won’t believe otherwise.

TRANSMODERNISM > POSTMODERNISM > MODERNISM > PREMODERNISM

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His explanation of the use of the weapon makes sense on paper, but that doesn’t make it practical. “Still looks cumbersome” is an apt description. Even in a choreographed fight it looks cumbersome. I don’t remember a single fight scene in the series’ where the elegant versatility he describes was actually put into practice.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

Author
Time

I like the explanation that the Bat’leth was made intentionally cumbersome as a metaphorical middle finger to Klingons who opted for ‘dishonorable’ energy weapons, and has since become a point of cultural and historical pride.

DuracellEnergizer: “^He’s embraced the absurd. Don’t expect to gain any conventional understanding from his posts.”
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