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1977 70mm soundtrack recording (Released) — Page 2

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I wouldn't suggest trying to re-sync using the mix already posted, since that recording's L and R tracks were adjusted during re-recording in order to try to stay in sync -- they wouldn't match up naturally if you split them apart and then tried to re-join them in the computer, not without a lot of fine-tuning throughout.

You'd need to go back to the original sources, record each separately, and then pair them by matching specific fixed points (a piece of dialogue, a laser blast), adjusting speed accordingly. Still not an easy task.
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I've only listened to a bunch of the first part, and I didn't hear anything different that I noticed apart from one little thing that sounded strange to me. Right after the Grand Moff Tarkin line that gets cut off, it cuts to the dead Jawa scene... and there is what sounds like a trumpet solo in the soundtrack. It sounded really odd to me, different from what I've heard before, kind of like if someone was playing 'Taps' much too loudly during the scene. I went back and listened to one of the other soundtracks, and the trumpet there did sound different from the 70mm mix. But it could very well just be the placement of the recording equipment and the particular way that trumpet solo was mixed.

I dunno... somebody else take a listen, compare, and see what you think. I'm doubtful that it's anything of significance.

--SKot

Projects:
Return Of The Ewok and Other Short Films (with OCPmovie) [COMPLETED]
Preserving the…cringe…Star Wars Holiday Special [COMPLETED]
The Star Wars TV Commercials Project [DORMANT]
Felix the Cat 1919-1930 early film shorts preservation [ONGOING]
Lights Out! (lost TV anthology shows) [ONGOING]
Iznogoud (1995 animated series) English audio preservation [ONGOING]

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Originally posted by: SKot
I've only listened to a bunch of the first part, and I didn't hear anything different that I noticed apart from one little thing that sounded strange to me. Right after the Grand Moff Tarkin line that gets cut off, it cuts to the dead Jawa scene... and there is what sounds like a trumpet solo in the soundtrack. It sounded really odd to me, different from what I've heard before, kind of like if someone was playing 'Taps' much too loudly during the scene. I went back and listened to one of the other soundtracks, and the trumpet there did sound different from the 70mm mix. But it could very well just be the placement of the recording equipment and the particular way that trumpet solo was mixed.

I dunno... somebody else take a listen, compare, and see what you think. I'm doubtful that it's anything of significance.

--SKot



I noticed that too, kind of an Ennio Morricone sounding part. I think its partially due to audio recording but probably it was mixed up a little bit as well.
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Phase-accurate syncing from independently vari-speeded sources is extremely difficult and mind-numbingly time consuming.

[moth3r] That's impossible, even for a computer [/moth3r]

[mebejedi] It's not impossible, I used to sync concerts on my PC back home, that's not much easier than phase accuracy [/mebejedi]

Phasing can also make the mix sound considerably different, although that effect will be reduced here due to the fact that the two tracks are cross-contaminated.
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Comparing the mixes, the trumpet solo you were talking about is definitely mixed in differently in the 70mm version. All of the other mixes sound identical with this cue, but this is weird.

The only other differences I've noticed so far are much more prominent, loud sound effects.
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Still, I wonder if that trumpet and the loud, prominent sound effects are simply a matter of proximity to that particular speaker that the sound was mixed through. Hard to tell, but interesting to consider nonetheless.

--SKot

Projects:
Return Of The Ewok and Other Short Films (with OCPmovie) [COMPLETED]
Preserving the…cringe…Star Wars Holiday Special [COMPLETED]
The Star Wars TV Commercials Project [DORMANT]
Felix the Cat 1919-1930 early film shorts preservation [ONGOING]
Lights Out! (lost TV anthology shows) [ONGOING]
Iznogoud (1995 animated series) English audio preservation [ONGOING]

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It's impossible to judge the mix on partially out-of-phase stereo. Now if someone really does manage to create a phase accurate syncing, that's a different matter. In the meantime, you'll probably get a better impression of the mix from one or other of the channels alone than both together.
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Originally posted by: SKot
Still, I wonder if that trumpet and the loud, prominent sound effects are simply a matter of proximity to that particular speaker that the sound was mixed through. Hard to tell, but interesting to consider nonetheless.

--SKot

I think it's a combination of that and the fact that the 70mm 6-track is just more dynamic and features discrete channels. The content is the same, it's just presented and heard differently.

The Starkiller's Guide to the Mono Sound Mix

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"I'm just sceptical about your "piece of cake" claim."

"Still not an easy task."

"Phase-accurate syncing from independently vari-speeded sources is extremely difficult and mind-numbingly time consuming."

Fair enough, but just give me the files, and I'll show ya. I'm aware it's hard work, but I know how to do it, and I'm offering to do it. If all you guys are going to do is complain about how hard it is, then let's just drop it altogether. I, personally, like to try and actually do something before giving the defeatist attitude.

Hell, if I'd followed Dr. Gonzo's advice and stopped trying to make my own SW LD DVDs because his were "good enough", then the X0 Project might never have come into existence.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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This bickering is pointless. All right, this clip is turning into the Coke bottle from the God's Must Be Crazy.
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morgands1, I forgot to thank you for making this available, and proper respects for the left/right channel initiative.

Also, someone sent me this sample, from a mono cassette recording. Aside from being in mono, I don't know how it would compare with a synced and fixed version of your recording.

It might be interesting to put a mono downmix of the left/right tracks of the '93 mix side by side with this mono theatre recording to compare - purely for content.

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MBJ, my post was intended to be encouraging rather than discouraging. Sorry if it came across the wrong way. My hat goes off to anyone who can pull this off.
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Really neat from an historical perspective. Kind of a shame someone had to read the opening crawl. Kind of reminds me of those two guys that ran the record-breaking home run with Hank Aaron.

Well, maybe a slight exaggeration
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What the hell?!?!? The musical score in the trash compactor sequence is also missing here!
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Originally posted by: Vigo
What the hell?!?!? The musical score in the trash compactor sequence is also missing here!


It's not missing, it was never there.

It was erroneously added later...
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Just to throw some more gas on the fire. I just finished “restoring” a mono recording of a 70’s 70MM in theater recording. Starkiller should have it posted soon but I found many problems with old tape recordings. Including tape speed, tape stretch and cassette flips.

Using some audio tools and a laser disk soundtrack as a guide I was able to get the ends of each of the 3 tape sides into sync, but even with the ends matched perfectly the middle would be as much as 3 seconds out of sync!

Getting this to sync with a picture or R & L channels will be many many hours of work.
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Especially when you consider the gaps in reel changes (not every projectionist gets it perfectly every time) or a jump due to a patched film break.
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Originally posted by: BrianM
Originally posted by: Vigo
What the hell?!?!? The musical score in the trash compactor sequence is also missing here!


It's not missing, it was never there.

It was erroneously added later...


I´m curious, what do you mean by saying, it was erroneausly added later? When? All german releases I have seen so far (except the 2004 SE) have this musical piece in it. The german dub was already made in late 1977. The question is now, which english version does have it? The mono track? BEcause all sound effects used in ALL german versions (even the 2004 SE) match the original mono mix, they also had always the missing lines (of course dubbed, but they are there).

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I was making a joke.

I saw the movie 20 some odd times in the theater 77-78 and that music was never there.

In 1980 during the re-release before Empire suddenly there was “A NEW HOPE” in the titles, strange music, extra lines, and Luke cursing Wedge instead if Biggs his wingman.

We thought Lucus had changed the movie when he changed it into “A New Hope” (Little did we know what was going to happen, SE) we were confused.

In fact we were just seeing the mono version for the first time. The correct version of Star Wars is personal and most feel the first version they saw is the “right one.”

If you think the 70MM/Dolby Stereo version is the “right one” you happen to be correct.


Originally posted by: Vigo
Originally posted by: BrianM
Originally posted by: Vigo
What the hell?!?!? The musical score in the trash compactor sequence is also missing here!


It's not missing, it was never there.

It was erroneously added later...


I´m curious, what do you mean by saying, it was erroneausly added later? When? All german releases I have seen so far (except the 2004 SE) have this musical piece in it. The german dub was already made in late 1977. The question is now, which english version does have it? The mono track? BEcause all sound effects used in ALL german versions (even the 2004 SE) match the original mono mix, they also had always the missing lines (of course dubbed, but they are there).


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Originally posted by: BrianM
I was making a joke.

I saw the movie 20 some odd times in the theater 77-78 and that music was never there.

In 1980 during the re-release before Empire suddenly there was “A NEW HOPE” in the titles, strange music, extra lines, and Luke cursing Wedge instead if Biggs his wingman.

We thought Lucus had changed the movie when he changed it into “A New Hope” (Little did we know what was going to happen, SE) we were confused.

In fact we were just seeing the mono version for the first time. The correct version of Star Wars is personal and most feel the first version they saw is the “right one.”

If you think the 70MM/Dolby Stereo version is the “right one” you happen to be correct.


But isn´t the mono version as original as the 70MM/DS version, since it was also created back then?

I checked, and the german version also has the dubbed Wedge line. Even in the 2004 SE....
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I think that was a joke. All three sound mixes, the mono, 35 mm stereo, and 70 mm six-track are equally "original".
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= I'm joking

Weeeelllll, actually the 70MM is the "MOST" original since it was done first.

I'm half serious here. The Mono version was the audio "Special Edition" with lots of things added and made "Better"


Originally posted by: Number20
I think that was a joke. All three sound mixes, the mono, 35 mm stereo, and 70 mm six-track are equally "original".


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I believe the mono mix was created last. So that would make it more correct, but less original.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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Originally posted by: Erikstormtrooper
I believe the mono mix was created last. So that would make it more correct, but less original.


Like the SE is "more correct"?