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1977 70mm soundtrack recording (Released)

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This was posted over in the Theatrical vs SE forum, but I know not a lot of us here look there. Definitely something worth checking out.

Originally posted by: morgands1
This contemporary recording may be of interest to those who’ve studied the differences in the 70mm stereo sound mix vs. other mixes and video releases of STAR WARS.

http://members.aol.com/morgands1/closeup/text/SWaudio.htm
“The Sounds of a Galaxy Far, Far Away”

David Morgan
“Wide Angle/Closeup: Conversations With Filmmakers”
http://members.aol.com/morgands1/closeup</div>

I used to be very active on this forum. I’m not really anymore. Sometimes, people still want to get in touch with me about something, and that is great! If that describes you, please email me at [my username]ATgmailDOTcom.

Hi everybody. You’re all awesome. Keep up the good work.

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Wow: http://members.aol.com/morgands1/closeup/text/SWaudio.htm

DOWNLOAD THE 1977 70MM SOUNDTRACK.

Amazing. Only drawback--64kbs MP3 files. Erk. Still, an amazing find. Maybe if enough people bug this guy he can give us the raw left-right files so we can do our own mix. With news of people having recordings of the original mono soundtrack as well i find it incredible how dedicated early fans were--and thank god.

Listen to the sound of the blockade runner and star destroyer coming over head--you can feel the power through the tinny, scratchy audio. Sounds mighty impressive--imagine a 70mm image accompanying it!
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"But, well, LIFE IS TOO SHORT to revisit these tapes with an ear towards re-doing this -- and no, don't bother asking. "

Oh, man, let's leave the guy alone. I'd love to see this track attached to the mono-mix bootleg out there. Grainy picture and now 2 bad sound options! Sweet!
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I'm looking forward to seeing what the Starkiller does with this.
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Rock me, Amadeus! Thanks for posting this, RB! I would never have found it in the other forum.

I've just started listening to it. It's amazing that even in this low quality recording, you can still feel the power of the 70mm 6-track. It was truly the only way to see these films back in the day.

We were just discussing these types of recordings the other day. Thanks to David for putting it online.

The Starkiller's Guide to the Mono Sound Mix

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Originally posted by: THX
I'm looking forward to seeing what the Starkiller does with this.


Ditto!!

Theoretically, a comparison of the 1977 mono, 1977 stereo, 1977 70mm, 1986 Digital Sound re-mix, 1993 re-mix, 1997 Special Edition and 2004 DVD audio's is now possible.

Aim high is what I say!!!!!

4 - 5 - 3 - 1 - 6 - 2

Discuss…

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You are the guy that owns these right? Good job man, i can't believe someone did this! Props to you.

Think maybe you could send us the raw left and right tracks? I'm sure someone here would be willing to fix them up and properly synch them to create a high quality track. Yes, i am greedy!

Whatever the case thanks for taking the time to encode and post them.
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I just noticed that the crowd enthusiastically cheers when the Death Star explodes. Awesome.
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BTW, I recall now, in addition to the reel change that cut off the end of Tarkin's line, a choppy print was also responsible for missing part of C-3PO's line to R2-D2 about Luke blasting him into a million pieces.
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Ah, I was wondering about that. It almost sounded like it could have been a variant, but it was still too choppy so I wasn't sure.
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If you still have the original L & R tapes and can bear to part with them temporarily, get them to belbucus.
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Those people cheering the death star explosion is even more amazing when you realize it's not an opening day crowd, it's not "fans", it's just some regular people in New Jersey!
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Uhm, as opposed to "regular people" elsewhere?

As I recall it was not a packed house, likely a Saturday matinee(s) a few months into its run. And I doubt the success of the rebels' mission was news to them.
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"If you still have the original L & R tapes and can bear to part with them temporarily, get them to belbucus."

Hell, if he can just record them to .WAV and send on CDs, I can sync these up no problem!

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Many thanks again, David, for supplying the 70mm mix after it had been missing for so long. It's hard to express just how historically important just a simple recording of this is to preservation efforts.

I think (and correct me if I'm wrong) that your thought was that life is too short to put a lot of blood, sweat and tears into doing any more with this 70mm soundtrack recording that is already inherently flawed. Which I would agree with for your part.

However, there are a good number of incredibly talented people here with time on their hands and the willingness to work who would be more than happy to take your raw recordings and mold them into something amazing, not costing you another penny or moment of your time in the process.

No joke... give these guys a toothpick and they'll build you a mansion! Give it a shot and I'm certain you won't be disappointed.

--SKot

Projects:
Return Of The Ewok and Other Short Films (with OCPmovie) [COMPLETED]
Preserving the…cringe…Star Wars Holiday Special [COMPLETED]
The Star Wars TV Commercials Project [DORMANT]
Felix the Cat 1919-1930 early film shorts preservation [ONGOING]
Lights Out! (lost TV anthology shows) [ONGOING]
Iznogoud (1995 animated series) English audio preservation [ONGOING]

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Wow, man this is one of the holy grails of Star Wars. The only sound mix that was missing, the 70mm! I never thought I'd get to hear this at all, let alone in stereo. I agree with everyone amazed at the power of the track, even with the low quality. Just listen to the bass "thud" every time a lightsaber ignites! Also, the chasm scene is interesting- in the 70mm, you can barely hear Leia's line, "For luck". The effects and the music pretty much drown it out.

Anyway, really neat stuff! Thanks so much, David. And I really don't want to impose on you after uploading such a wonderful, coveted item, but I'm with the others wondering if you could send the WAV files to someone in the OT.com community? There are a LOT of great people here.
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Yeah David, why did you not return and get two more recordings, one sat front centre and another sat at the back under one of the surrounds?

Personally I think that, unlike the mono mix, these cinema recordings are more of historical interest rather than viable sources for an alternative DVD audio track. They just seem to have that hollow, "recorded in the theater" sound.

That said, I would love to see someone collate a list of all the main differences, like the web page dedicated to the mono mix.

The main thing that I've found interesting is that many people think that the 1993 THX-certified mix on the Definitive Edition laserdiscs was
primarily a downmix of the 70mm soundtrack (although the disc notes said it was created from the best elements of all 3 soundtracks). However it appears that there were new elements added to this mix. E.g the sound of the asteroids shooting past the Millenium Falcon, which I thought was from the 70mm mix, doesn't seem to be present. I would like to know how much of the 70mm mix did actually make it into the 1993 mix.

Originally posted by: THX
If you still have the original L & R tapes and can bear to part with them temporarily, get them to belbucus.
He's going to have a play with the MP3, but he can't see that a phase accurate left/right sync can be achieved... too many variables, apparently.

Although I think some processing with a pop removal filter would help tremendously.

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As Lando would say, "All right! All right! All right!"

I'll have a go re-recording the separate L and R of a portion of the tape to test how much bother it is to keep in sync in a WAV editor for 20 mins or so. But not this week.

If it doesn't take a HUGE chunk of time, we'll see about the rest ... I"ll keep you apprised.

David


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After listening to the entire recording, I did not hear anything unusual. The 70mm mix is apparently identical (in terms of content) to the 35mm Dolby Stereo mix as we had speculated.

The real significance of the 70mm mix is hearing it in 70mm, which, of course, is not an option. Because of this and the inherent (and unavoidable) flaws in the theater recording, and the fact that we already have the 35mm Dolby mix in high quality, I see no tangible benefit for anyone to work towards adding this recording to a DVD.

However, from an historical perspective, it is priceless. David, thanks again for providing this fantastic artifact. The fact the you actually recorded from both the left and right sides is remarkable.

Originally posted by: morgands1
BTW, I recall now, in addition to the reel change that cut off the end of Tarkin's line, a choppy print was also responsible for missing part of C-3PO's line to R2-D2 about Luke blasting him into a million pieces.
Oddly enough, Tarkin's line is completely missing from the mono mix bootleg--also thanks to the reel change.

Originally posted by: Moth3r
The main thing that I've found interesting is that many people think that the 1993 THX-certified mix on the Definitive Edition laserdiscs was primarily a downmix of the 70mm soundtrack (although the disc notes said it was created from the best elements of all 3 soundtracks). However it appears that there were new elements added to this mix. E.g the sound of the asteroids shooting past the Millenium Falcon, which I thought was from the 70mm mix, doesn't seem to be present. I would like to know how much of the 70mm mix did actually make it into the 1993 mix.

Several elements from the mono mix appear in the 1993 THX mix in addition to some new elements. As for how much of the 70mm mix was used, I'm not sure that's even relevant depending on how the THX mix was created. The same 4-track master was used to create both the original 70mm 6-track and 35mm Dolby mixes. If this master was used in the creation of the THX mix, then perhaps none of it came from the true 70mm mix, or 35mm for that matter. It would have actually come from the master that created both of those mixes.

The Starkiller's Guide to the Mono Sound Mix

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Originally posted by: PaulisDead2221
I would love the bootleg feel of putting it on a DVD, maybe I'll just put it together myself . You can't get an actual cheering crowd from 1977 off a laserdisc!


sync it up with the 1977 bootleg! that would be neat!
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That WOULD be cool, actually.

"I'll have a go re-recording the separate L and R of a portion of the tape to test how much bother it is to keep in sync in a WAV editor for 20 mins or so. But not this week. "

I'll save you thr trouble. I've done this with a 2-hour music concert, though it was syncing audio to video (which was actually tougher for a variety of reasons, including losing sync every 5 to 10 minutes). Left-to-right would be a piece of cake for me.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Somehow I can't imagine it would be that easy.

The eye is more easily fooled than the ear. Syncing audio to video is much less onerous, a mis-sync of 30-40ms can go unnoticed by most people. Syncing two audio sources is more difficult, a tiny amount out generates an effect called "phasing". While this is used for cool effect by DJs playing dance music, it's not something you want to achieve here.

Not trying to piss on your bonfire, but coupled with the fact that a professional audio engineer is doubtful that it can be done, I'm just sceptical about your "piece of cake" claim.

But hey, don't let that stop you, I could be talking crap. Grab one of the MP3 files and have a play with a short section. If you can get a phase accurate left/right sync, then I'll take it back.

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