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What don't you like about TESB? — Page 2

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DuracellEnergizer said:

“The cave! Remember your failure at the cave!”

“But I’ve learned so much since then!”

IMO, that bit of dialogue hints that something more than two weeks worth of training passed by.

That’s a very good point and I hope he got at least 2 months of training. That would explain why someone who has never been trained in actual lightsaber combat was able to land a hit on a Lord of The Sith. There’s no way 2 weeks of could explain why Luke was able to hit an undisputed master of lightsaber combat.

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Wasn’t there some book or comic or something that expanded on Luke’s training with Yoda, and mentioned him being told that Jedi cannot love?

Not enough people read the EU.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

Lord Haseo said:

I’ve heard a lot recently that Luke’s training in ESB was a whopping 2 weeks.

Which is a lame concept.

The events that take place in the film don’t indicate it taking place over several months.

“The cave! Remember your failure at the cave!”

“But I’ve learned so much since then!”

IMO, that bit of dialogue hints that something more than two weeks worth of training passed by.

Yes you are absolutely right but the complaint is that we don’t feel as though 2 weeks or 2 months has passed in terms of how the film is edited because it is edited in a very real time immediate way.

This is however a double edged sword because the other complaint about this that I have heard time and time again is that the Falcon also feels like it arrives at Bespin in no time at all.

So thinking of this problem or complaint laterally would it have been beneficial for say a footage montage of the Falcon flying through space to convey a long arduous space journey before they reach bespin when he leaves the Junk and Bobba Fett behind. Would that be a better way to show time passing. Like I said it’s a double edged sword and it’s probably easier to convey the time dilation effect / Time Passing in space than it is on the Planet Dagobah.

Perhaps even intercutting between the Falcon Flying through Space and Luke swinging a lightsabre about with Yoda on his back might do the trick perhaps a montage for both of these threads intertwined would have been beneficial.

But If I also remember correctly Han also says “It’s not far” so I guess this really solves very little but It might help to show a bit more time passing but Han has been known to stretch the truth before 😃

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ray_afraid said:

I don’t like the orange ships at cloud city. If it was just one capsule, it’d be fine, but as it is, it looks silly and ugly.
This doesn’t bother me at all though. In fact, one of the things I like about Star Wars is that not everything looks Ultra-Cool. Some things look a bit dopey and that makes the world a little more real to me.

Where were you in '77?

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As a person who thinks TESB is one of the two “perfect” Star Wars movies it’s hard for me to tell what I DON’T like about it, but after some thinking - I’d wish they would finish the Wampa subplot and put it into the movie. I also thought Luke’s training could be longer.

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Lord Haseo said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

“The cave! Remember your failure at the cave!”

“But I’ve learned so much since then!”

IMO, that bit of dialogue hints that something more than two weeks worth of training passed by.

That’s a very good point and I hope he got at least 2 months of training. That would explain why someone who has never been trained in actual lightsaber combat was able to land a hit on a Lord of The Sith. There’s no way 2 weeks of could explain why Luke was able to hit an undisputed master of lightsaber combat.

Sure. But what’s slightly frustrating (and the only issue I have with this film) is that Han/Leia’s story that is cut back and forth to seems like something that takes place over several hours or a day. I don’t have a problem with that sequence itself, even if it is filler as someone suggested. But the passage of time feels extremely inconsistent.

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SilverWook said:

ray_afraid said:

I don’t like the orange ships at cloud city. If it was just one capsule, it’d be fine, but as it is, it looks silly and ugly.
This doesn’t bother me at all though. In fact, one of the things I like about Star Wars is that not everything looks Ultra-Cool. Some things look a bit dopey and that makes the world a little more real to me.

You’ve said that before, but it doesn’t make me like either design any more than I do.
Silly looking things look silly.

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea

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I don’t tend to get too fussed about the amount of time that passed between the escape from Hoth and the heroes’ arrivals at Cloud City. After all, if I did that, I’d remember that it should take a few million years for Han and Leia to get to Bespin without a hyperdrive.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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ATMachine said:

I don’t tend to get too fussed about the amount of time that passed between the escape from Hoth and the heroes’ arrivals at Cloud City. After all, if I did that, I’d remember that it should take a few million years for Han and Leia to get to Bespin without a hyperdrive.

Exactly. But if you want to rationalize things, they could have been couple of weeks on the asteroid fixing things and waiting, traveling to Bespin could have taken a couple of weeks, the time in Bespin before Vader’s dinner could have taken a few days, between the dinner and carbon freezing could have taken a few days… So if you reeeally want to stretch it out, there can be 2 months in there.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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I think really in summary Empire Strikes Back Main Flaw is “Time”

Whichever way you look at it if it is not a question of how much time has passed it’s a question of why shot’s are swapped about or the timeline is re-arranged.

In the clip I posted on the last page although there was no dialogue pay attention to this part.

R2-D2 electrocues himself… Beeps wildly smoking his head spinning Chewie tries to help him

C3-PO " Well don’t blame me! how am I supposed to know the difference between a power socket and a computer terminal?"

R2-D2 drives in to the wall dazed and confused he beeps disgruntedly at 3PO

They continue to travel down the corridor C3-PO " Well at least your still on one piece look what happened to me!"

Now why on earth create a time travel type movie scenario and move that shot and split the conversation in half but keep the dialogue in tact slotting it in the past before they reach Bobba Fetts ship when it’s obviously not meant to go there?

I think it’s missing shot’s but It’s another factor in this whole time conundrum in which Empire Strikes Back seems to falter

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Darth Lars said:

Dak Ralter’s line “Right now I feel I can take on the whole Empire myself.” bugs me a bit. It is too upbeat and enthusiastic. As if they are kids about to go to an amusement park, not pilots going out to war.

The point of this exchange is that Dak is as young and reckless as Luke was in the first film, whereas Luke is already old enough and wise enough not to feel quite the same. It’s a lovely bit of character shorthand.

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“No, I am your Father”

With that line, Lucas started down the rabbit hole. That moment was the beginning of my eventual separation from all things post-1980 Lucas-penned.

I last watched Empire 17 years ago. Where I worked at the time, we did a serialized lunchtime theater marathon of the OT in preparation for Phantom. Prior to that, it had been probably 10 years since I’d seen it.

If Disney releases the theatrical versions of the first two films, I’ll buy it and probably watch it. I think the Degobah portion of the film is its bright spot. Hamill carries the film.

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For me the only problem I have with the film is it set the bar to a level that demanded to be held or raised further and none of the films that have come since have.

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I always thought it was confusing that Luke was silent while falling in Cloud City. I wish he would have screamed bloody murder while falling. Preferably with a terribly out of place left over scream from Return of the Jedi.

The Person in Question

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moviefreakedmind said:

I always thought it was confusing that Luke was silent while falling in Cloud City. I wish he would have screamed bloody murder while falling. Preferably with a terribly out of place left over scream from Return of the Jedi.

While many of the changes were “worse,” this was the dumbest in the sense that it was almost childish.

TV’s Frink said:

I would put this in my sig if I weren’t so lazy.

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I’m actually really glad that Lucas removed the scream from Luke’s fall. It’s one of Luke’s most brave and profound moments, him screaming just makes it silly. Even Lucas realized that and removed it in the newer SE versions.

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Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novels.

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ZkinandBonez said:

I’m actually really glad that Lucas removed the scream from Luke’s fall. It’s one of Luke’s most brave and profound moments, him screaming just makes it silly. Even Lucas realizability that and removed it in the newer SE versions.

The scream wasn’t in the original, it was added in '97 (not sure if removed in '04 or '11). I’m sure we are all glad its gone now.

TV’s Frink said:

I would put this in my sig if I weren’t so lazy.

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CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

ZkinandBonez said:

I’m actually really glad that Lucas removed the scream from Luke’s fall. It’s one of Luke’s most brave and profound moments, him screaming just makes it silly. Even Lucas realizability that and removed it in the newer SE versions.

The scream wasn’t in the original, it was added in '97 (not sure if removed in '04 or '11). I’m sure we are all glad its gone now.

I know. It was the 1997 SE I was referring to.
I was just pointing out that Lucas had the same thought to add a scream, but even he realized at some point that it was a bad decision.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novels.

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Considering the backlash about luke screaming exacly like the emperor… It was very silly decision.

Even if it were Mark Hamil’s voice it still would have been a bad decision

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Ronster said:
R2-D2 electrocues himself… Beeps wildly smoking his head spinning Chewie tries to help him

It’s debatable if Artoo is actually alive or not but seeing as he is clearly still functional after this he couldn’t possibly have electrocuted himself 😛

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OK agreed it was painted on electricity 😃

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Ronster said:

I think really in summary Empire Strikes Back Main Flaw is “Time”

Whichever way you look at it if it is not a question of how much time has passed it’s a question of why shot’s are swapped about or the timeline is re-arranged.

In the clip I posted on the last page although there was no dialogue pay attention to this part.

R2-D2 electrocues himself… Beeps wildly smoking his head spinning Chewie tries to help him

C3-PO " Well don’t blame me! how am I supposed to know the difference between a power socket and a computer terminal?"

R2-D2 drives in to the wall dazed and confused he beeps disgruntedly at 3PO

They continue to travel down the corridor C3-PO " Well at least your still on one piece look what happened to me!"

Now why on earth create a time travel type movie scenario and move that shot and split the conversation in half but keep the dialogue in tact slotting it in the past before they reach Bobba Fetts ship when it’s obviously not meant to go there?

I think it’s missing shot’s but It’s another factor in this whole time conundrum in which Empire Strikes Back seems to falter

This might be the only place on the internet where someone complains about something like this.

At least, I sure hope so.

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Yeah, I never thought the shot timeline was out of wack, but whatever. Though it is a worthy complaint when it’s extremely noticeable and out of place. Like the PT Blu-Rays did in some scenes.

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SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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Threepio. Something about him, I think it’s just because he has so much less to do in this film. I don’t know who writes Threepio well, if I’m honest, but I find myself gravitating to the SW version a lot more. I can’t explain it, his humor just seems generally lamer.

The hopeless part of me wish they’d employed some of the dialogue/imagery from the Williamson comic (“Give 'em hell, kid.”, Yoda watching the Dagobah crash, cavernous and beautiful Cloud City), maybe kept some more of the Williams music, maybe some of the other scene extensions around Bespin…

I’m just here because I’m driving tonight.