Design failures (and successes) of the PT — Page 2

The Jedi robes thing infuriates me.

As a kid, the single most iconic image that said "Return of the Jedi" to me was Luke dressed in what we were clearly meant to believe was a Jedi "uniform" - black, militaristic, but with a distinctly priestly touch. The film's title referred in large part to the return of the Jedi Order, as well as the return of Luke himself as a Jedi, both of which were represented visually by Luke's bold decision to dress in the distinctive uniform of a Jedi, first seen in the hologram where he introduces himself as "Luke Skywalker, Jedi Knight."

But if the Jedi uniform is just the generic brown robes worn by Tatooinian men, then what the hell was Luke weaking in ROTJ? And why was he wearing it? It's been reduced to a one-note visual metaphor for Luke's potential fall to the Dark Side and has no sensible in-universe explanation (apart, perhaps, from being an attempt by Luke to cosplay as his own father).

I always wanted the PT to give us the image of legions of black-clad Jedi fighting armies of white-armored Mandalorians. Instead we got... well, we all know what we got, don't we?

Yeah, I didn't get the chariot angle of the podracers until recently, and it lessens them. Why not just have the engines connected by something less dangerous than an energy beam that will immediately fail when the power is cut and cause them to rocket off in all directions?

Looking at the Naboo starfighter, it ALMOST makes sense to have the astromech installed sideways, so that the legs don't add bulk to the ship. But for that to work without the telescoping head weirdness it would need to sit somewhat lower in the socket.

Agreed that the Droidekas were an excellent design, as well as most of the Phantom Menace machines, simply because they didn't look horribly CGed.

One of the weirdest ships from a design standpoint was Dooku's solar sailer. How exactly is that supposed to work? It seems to use conventional methods to exit a planet's atmosphere, but then it deploys a solar sail and....what? Goes to Hyperspace? Accelerates by the use of solar energy to FASTER than the speed of light? To make the trip from the outer rim to the core of the galaxy, I'd expect that it would need to make use of hyperspace, so the sails are rather useless in that regard. Eh, at that point in AOTC I simply didn't care what was onscreen as my eyes were already bleeding from seeing Yoda bounce around like a cartoon.

towne32 said:

NeverarGreat said:

Eh, at that point in AOTC I simply didn't care what was onscreen as my eyes were already bleeding from seeing Yoda bounce around as a cartoon.

 KFTFY

 Haha thanks!

towne32 said:

I think I mind the Jedi robes least of everyone on this forum. Yeah, the reason for them is wrong. But having such modest monk-like clothing for a group that is (supposed to be) divorcing themselves from their emotions is not the worst.

Mainly, I'd be concerned of what they would come up with if they decided to go all out designing Jedi uniforms. It could be much worse if they went for something like an 80's Who Gallifreyan aesthetic.

 They could've just gone with what they'd already established in 1983. That's what's so irksome to me - their work was already done. All they needed to do afterward was just give a crap about continuity with the OT. In fact, that's pretty much the problem with the PT in a nutshell.

Voss Caltrez said:

So visually, the 1950s USA reference with Dex's Diner took me right out of the film instantly. That had no place in the SW universe. 

 Couldn't agree more - that was hatefully inappropriate.

darklordoftech said:

Akton said:

towne32 said:

I think I mind the Jedi robes least of everyone on this forum. Yeah, the reason for them is wrong. But having such modest monk-like clothing for a group that is (supposed to be) divorcing themselves from their emotions is not the worst.

Mainly, I'd be concerned of what they would come up with if they decided to go all out designing Jedi uniforms. It could be much worse if they went for something like an 80's Who Gallifreyan aesthetic.

They could've just gone with what they'd already established in 1983. 

After all, that's what Chiang did. Chiang's concept art had the Jedi wear what Luke wears in ROTJ.

 I hadn't realized that. Bully for Chiang - he just went up a few notches in my book.

It sucks to have an idiot for a boss.

darklordoftech said:

Yoda isn't wearing the same garb, and if Anakin's also from Tatooine...

 Yeah, I never saw that as "Jedi" garb either. To me, Anakin and Obi-Wan were just dressed like common Tatooine folk (as alluded to by Obi-Wan in SW: "He felt he should have stayed here and not gotten involved.")

Is this just some ploy to have us watch the PT again, darth_ender (aka George Lucas!!)?

Going from my memory...

I didn't think Darth Maul looked bad at all. In fact, Iain McCaig was the only designer I really like. They should have followed his stuff more closely.

Maybe if Coruscant wasn't too CGI-looking I would like it better.

I, too, think the podracer designs were pretty cool, as was the look of the incomplete C3PO (though, of course, what is he doing being created by a 6-year old boy?)

And... I remember absolutely nothing but the ending from ROTS. For better or for worse.

Akton said:

darklordoftech said:

Yoda isn't wearing the same garb, and if Anakin's also from Tatooine...

 Yeah, I never saw that as "Jedi" garb either. To me, Anakin and Obi-Wan were just dressed like common Tatooine folk (as alluded to by Obi-Wan in SW: "He felt he should have stayed here and not gotten involved.")

I agree about the robe. We also know (http://web.archive.org/web/20141101101007/http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/thebeginning.html ) that George wanted the Jedi to wear a different samurai-like outfit (you can still see them wearing it in KOTOR)

Wasn't Obi-wan's quote referred to Owen, though?

Ben is saying Owen said Anikin should have stayed on Tatooine. And not gotten involved.

I've always felt that Naboo was one of the "good parts" of TPM. Not only is Theed a very pretty-looking location, but it was one of the few PT locations that felt like it could belong in the SW-universe, while at the same time being different from anything we had previously seen. 
And although I realize there are people who really despise queen Amidala's wardrobe, I can't quite shake that feeling that had TPM not been as poorly written (and had no Jar Jar to ruin everyone's mood) I think people would have remembered her strange look much more fondly.

  
Amidala's design being inspired by Mongolian royalty kind of fits into the SW's general style, which was originally heavily influenced by Japanese culture. If Vader's design was based on samurai generals, why not Mongolian rayalty in the PT?

And maybe this is a somewhat controversial opinion, but I actually kind of like the design of the Gungans. Of course their silly behavior, not to mention their speech, leave much to be desired. But again, had the characters been written differently, but the design kept exactly the same, I think we would have liked them a whole lot more.

Heck, even Jar Jar looked kind of cool in some of the early concept art ideas.

I really like this painting. Jar Jar actually looks like a dignified character, rather than being the complete goof he turned out to be. I'm curious as to who actually made this as it shows a very different version of Jar Jar than all the other concept art that was made.

All in all I think that the design of TPM is it's strong side. It may be a bit strange some times but it wasn't as out of place in the SW-universe as many of the Ep. II and III design choices were. The real sinner in TPM was George's mediocre writing, retconning and terrible attempts at humour.

However since this thread is mostly about bad designs I'll finish by showing what is possibly the ugliest concept art for Jar Jar I have yet to see. Seriously this design is so ugly it actually makes me appreciate the current design to some degree.

Replace Jar Jar with Brak.