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This is something I find tiresome and old ground.
I know Adywan is busy finishing his revision of The Empire Strikes Back (incredibly exciting, was more than happy to contribute to get it finished) so this might be one for the future, but I was wondering what people thought of his addition to ANH of music from the other films, and if it’s as unpopular as it seems to be (relatively speaking of course), if there’s any chance of it being revised in a future version (possibly an HD one?)?
I’ve just finished watching ANH Revisited and want to say from the start that, echoing the vast majority of posters, I think it is an absolutely stunning piece of work and it’s what has inspired me to join this site.
But I’ve also noticed that, if there’s one note of dissent amongst viewers, it tends to focus around the addition of music from the other films. Adywan’s work is at it’s best when it’s seamless, and it’s clear from ANH-R that he is an expert editor and highly talented special effects artist.
But I think the changes in music are not only a distraction, they are artistically flawed as well. A musical score, just like an opera, is an over-arching piece of work that flows with recurring themes throughout.
Take the brilliantly re-edited duel between Vader and Kenobi. The music here (from the Prequels, which doesn’t exactly conjure happy feelings anyway) is out of place because it crops up nowhere else in the film, not to mention how different it is stylistically to a score composed circa 1977. If this sequence had music from ANH, or even no music at all as in the original, I can’t help thinking that I’d have just sat back and gone ‘WOW’ at this scene instead of debating about the music when I should have been enjoying the movie.
Another sequence is the initial reveal of the Death Star, with the addition of The Imperial March from TESB. Visually it is excellent and fits the narrative perfectly (I love that the Death Star now relies on a planet as a base, presumably so they could build it a la ROTJ. It never seemed right that it just sat in some part of outer space waiting for a phone call for the crew to go and blow up some planet the Emperor didn’t like the look of).
But the Imperial March is a stylistic theme throughout TESB and fits that films dark, doom-laden feel. Again, for it to just pop up doesn’t sit right and is another distraction. The new special effect sequence here even goes on too long seemingly to fit it in (the Star Destroyer appears to be about to crash in to the Death Star while it waits for the orchestra to finish) - and then music continues through the next scene where Vader remotely fingers a guys throat. It just seems a bit self-indulgent - although to be fair the nice bit of creepy music when Vader wiggles his finger is very effective.
What do others think? Were you excited when the ‘new’ music struck up or did it seem to be a change to far? Did you feel like the film flowed or that the musical changes distracted from Adywan’s work and the film? Did the changes make sense narratively?
Finally - if Adywan is out there and gets a spare second in his day at the moment (I cannot imagine how) - how do you feel about the additional music in retrospect and if you agree that looking back it’s the one thing that doesn’t ‘fit’ as perfectly as all your other changes, are there any newer versions planned where you could replace the music in question with excerpts from the original score?
If not and time is a bit stretched at the moment, maybe send me the scenes in question and I’ll have a go myself 😉
"I could see where things were headed. The toy business began to drive the [Lucasfilm] empire. It's a shame. They make three times as much on toys as they do on films. It's natural to make decisions that protect the toy business but that's not the best thing for making quality films.... The emphasis on the toys, it's like the cart driving the horse. If it wasn't for that the films would be done for their own merits. The creative team wouldn't be looking over their shoulder all the time."
Gary Kurtz, producer of Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back
ANHRHD will have the Kenobi/Vader battle with or without the additional music via branching. In retrospect, I believe Ady no longer thinks the additional music was such a great idea.
And this conversation could be moved to either of these threads:
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/STAR-WARS-EP-IV-2004-REVISITED-ADYWAN-720p-HD-version-coming-after-ROTJ-R/topic/5942/
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/The-ANH-SE-Redux-Ideas-thread-Radical-Ideas-Welcome/topic/10131/
Star Wars Revisited Wordpress
Star Wars Visual Comparisons WordPress
doubleofive said:
ANHRHD will have the Kenobi/Vader battle with or without the additional music via branching. In retrospect, I believe Ady no longer thinks the additional music was such a great idea.
And this conversation could be moved to either of these threads:
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/STAR-WARS-EP-IV-2004-REVISITED-ADYWAN-720p-HD-version-coming-after-ROTJ-R/topic/5942/
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/The-ANH-SE-Redux-Ideas-thread-Radical-Ideas-Welcome/topic/10131/
"...with or without the additional music via branching"
I'm sure you mean well, but if you re-read my post that doesn't really contribute to the discussion / debate - some of the segments in question didn't exist before Adywans edit and the question I'm asking - quite fairly I believe - is should they have new music or music from the original score. I've set my stall out that I think they should have music from the score for ANH but I'm more than happy for people to tell me I'm wrong and why - Adywan clearly thought so when he took the time to make his version, for example. It's an aesthetic / artistic question and whether various versions will be available as alternative audio on a DVD in the future doesn't really have anything to do with it.
"This conversation could be moved to either of these threads"
I'm sure my question could have been asked on various threads - but these threads all have a habit of going off-thread, don't they? The discussion on one I looked at that was entitled something along the lines of 'Revisited 720p HD version' yet it had veered so far off-kilter posters were discussing Yoda's internal thought process for telling Luke to enter the cave unarmed in TESB.
I think this subject deserves debate and discussion in a thread of it's own and I don't see the harm in asking for other fan's opinions. If it's something you find tiresome or old ground, *WAVES HAND* "move along"...
"I could see where things were headed. The toy business began to drive the [Lucasfilm] empire. It's a shame. They make three times as much on toys as they do on films. It's natural to make decisions that protect the toy business but that's not the best thing for making quality films.... The emphasis on the toys, it's like the cart driving the horse. If it wasn't for that the films would be done for their own merits. The creative team wouldn't be looking over their shoulder all the time."
Gary Kurtz, producer of Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back
This is something I find tiresome and old ground.
The argument for:
The score for Star Wars, having been composed before any of the other films, lacks many of the themes found in the other films, themes which, had the films been created as a whole, would certainly appear. As one of the goals of Revisited is to make the 6-Film-Saga work well together, it is only natural that the score should be adjusted properly. The most notable "missing theme" is the Imperial March/Darth Vader's Theme, given the heavy Imperial presence in this film, but Battle of the Heroes is particularly fitting for the final meeting of Obi-Wan and his former pupil.
Viewers of the Revisited Saga may be surprised to hear these themes in A New Hope, as 1977's Star Wars is a beloved film to which they may have memorized every note, line of dialogue, and image. The changes may even be offputting at first, resulting in a poor reaction. However, if the goal of Revisited is to make a 6-film saga, then their insertions are appropriate and even necessary.
now this is much better!
I think one of the problems people have had with the duel music comes from a general dislike for anything PT. Yes, for some that includes Williams' music.
While I'm no fan of the PT, I don't mind having the theme there. What we should be focusing on is the brilliant work by Ady in making the duel faster (somehow) and making it seem longer (somehow) instead of the music.
The fact that he is going to give us the option to have it either way music-wise, well, what more can the guy do?
Jeez.
Also, this is the first time I can remember anyone complaining about the ESB theme being there.
One thing I notice that doesn't seem to get mentioned much is the Emperor's theme used in the Death Star conference room. That was an amazing addition by Ady.
It's true that not every scene in a film needs music, but anyone who thinks that theme playing in the background during that scene doesn't take it to a whole new level of awesome is dog^%&* nuts.
“Anakin had those qualities so rarely seen, exuding an unmistakable confidence and yet still able to touch one’s heart in simply knowing how he was so flawed… wounded.”
As for the Death Star being in orbit of a planet, well, this is another example of brilliance. The thing wasn't fully operational and yet in is just sitting out there is empty space.
Ridiculous!
Ady is spot-on. It would be in orbit of a planet taking on supplies, equipment, troops, officers, etc. al. Only when fully operational to move and defend itself completely would it break orbit from the planet.
It was such a obvious thing and yet I can't remember anyone ever having that idea before. And I've been online talking Star Wars since 1998. Aldera (Chuckie Taylor), Prequel Spoilers, TFN once upon a time (sadly), X-Boards, Galactic Senate (T-Bone), Millennium Falcon.com, etc. and I never heard anyone propose such an idea.
I guess it was too obvious that it just seemed to slip through the cracks.
“Anakin had those qualities so rarely seen, exuding an unmistakable confidence and yet still able to touch one’s heart in simply knowing how he was so flawed… wounded.”
It seems slightly inappropriate to start a thread about changes you'd like to see specifically in someone else's edit, especially when there is a thread created by the editor specifically designated for discussion of that edit.
But perhaps I'm misunderstanding. Are you stating a desire for changed music in any new edit of ANH? If so, perhaps you could change your thread title to reflect that, as in that case it would be misleading.
Preferred Saga:
1,2: Numeraljoker extended
3: L8wrtr
4,6-9: Hal9000
5: Adywan
Yeah, ANH:R chatter in the ANH:R thread, general ANH:SE Edit chatter in the ANH:SE Edit thread please.
"Something from the PT? Oh God, kill it!"
emanswfan said:
now this is much better!
My problem with this is the same as it is in Revisited: It's just a music track playing behind a scene it wasn't composed for. The music wasn't made for that scene and it shows because it doesn't match up. I'll be happy with SWRHD and the choice of no music.
Darth Hade said:
One thing I notice that doesn't seem to get mentioned much is the Emperor's theme used in the Death Star conference room. That was an amazing addition by Ady.
Yeah, that really added to the atmosphere in a proper way. I also love the line "disolved??" that was added. Very subtle and very effective.
ray_afraid said:
emanswfan said:
now this is much better!
My problem with this is the same as it is in Revisited: It's just a music track playing behind a scene it wasn't composed for. The music wasn't made for that scene and it shows because it doesn't match up. I'll be happy with SWRHD and the choice of no music.
Ahem, Fantasia.
John Williams score to Return of the Jedi Remastered/Remixed:
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/JOHN-WILLIAMS-Star-Wars-Episode-VI-Return-of-the-Jedi-Remastered-Edition/topic/14606/page/1/
fishmanlee said:
ray_afraid said:
emanswfan said:
now this is much better!
My problem with this is the same as it is in Revisited: It's just a music track playing behind a scene it wasn't composed for. The music wasn't made for that scene and it shows because it doesn't match up. I'll be happy with SWRHD and the choice of no music.
Ahem, Fantasia.
I'm not saying it hasn't or can't happen, just that it didn't work for me here. Also, wasn't Fantasia edited around the music so that it matched?
ray_afraid said:
fishmanlee said:
ray_afraid said:
emanswfan said:
now this is much better!
My problem with this is the same as it is in Revisited: It's just a music track playing behind a scene it wasn't composed for. The music wasn't made for that scene and it shows because it doesn't match up. I'll be happy with SWRHD and the choice of no music.
Ahem, Fantasia.
I'm not saying it hasn't or can't happen, just that it didn't work for me here. Also, wasn't Fantasia edited around the music so that it matched?
See, it's all a matter of preference. Can't Ady make an HD version that keeps all his original soundtrack additions intact, and a version that takes them out? Make everyone happy? Because I REALLY like the Imperial March/Mustafar Duel/Emperor's Theme additions. I really, really, like them.
ray_afraid said:
fishmanlee said:
ray_afraid said:
emanswfan said:
now this is much better!
My problem with this is the same as it is in Revisited: It's just a music track playing behind a scene it wasn't composed for. The music wasn't made for that scene and it shows because it doesn't match up. I'll be happy with SWRHD and the choice of no music.
Ahem, Fantasia.
I'm not saying it hasn't or can't happen, just that it didn't work for me here. Also, wasn't Fantasia edited around the music so that it matched?
The fight scene here was also edited to the music (though not as effectively of course)
John Williams score to Return of the Jedi Remastered/Remixed:
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/JOHN-WILLIAMS-Star-Wars-Episode-VI-Return-of-the-Jedi-Remastered-Edition/topic/14606/page/1/
MrInsaneA said:
Can't Ady make an HD version that....[makes] everyone happy?
Never gonna happen.
Star Wars Episode XXX: Erica Strikes Back
If you want Nice, go to France
Davnes007 said:
MrInsaneA said:
Can't Ady make an HD version that....[makes] everyone happy?
Never gonna happen.
Clever girl....