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Preserving the...cringe...Star Wars Holiday Special (Released) — Page 22

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The KCCI version is too dark and over-smoothed IMO - although it was the best quality available at one point.

I have Zion's hybrid WBBM version somewhere but I've never actually compared it with the the KCCI.

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I don't think I've ever seen Zion's version posted online. It would be great if someone could upload it.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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Erikstormtrooper said:

I don't think I've ever seen Zion's version posted online. It would be great if someone could upload it.

 

Agreed, I'd love to see it also!

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Moth3r said:

The KCCI version is too dark and over-smoothed IMO - although it was the best quality available at one point.

So which one available today has the best quality?

GF and I talked about watching this last year, but never got around to it. Would love/dread to watch it this year (never seen it before).

Or maybe we'll just be lazy and watch whatever one is on Google Videos.

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I personally think that Rikter's copy is the best (BLAK00019), but of course I didn't see ALL available versions :-)

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So in other words: of the ones I have BLAK0019 is probably the best, but there is potentially a better version out there (perhaps Zion).

Anyone who can point me in the right direction will receive a great deal of affection from me!

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They're all different is the problem. KCCI is very consistent, clean, and sort of feels like a "master copy", but it is quite dark and soft. WBBM has better contrast, levels, and detail, but more overall picture noise. Then there's WMAR that is somewhere in between. Its very good, still got the commercials, but its color is really off.

Tobor is robot spelled backwards.

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I see. I guess I Just figured from the quote 

The KCCI version is too dark and over-smoothed IMO - although it was the best quality available at one point.

that there was another version out there that was better quality and considered to be the new version "to get".

 

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Personally I prefer the Zion Hybrid version. It's much sharper and brighter than all the others, but that unfortunately reveals all the video noise as well.

The KCCI version is so dark it obliterates most of the stars in the opening credits, and much shadow detail is lost. It is smooth, though.

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 (Edited)

woodsyallen said:

 

I see. I guess I Just figured from the quote 

The KCCI version is too dark and over-smoothed IMO - although it was the best quality available at one point.

that there was another version out there that was better quality and considered to be the new version "to get".

 

I think overall the KCCI is your best bet.  It's also probably the most common nowadays.  Of course if you can get hold of the Zion hybrid, that's worth a shot too.

Ideally, what we really need (besides a droid who understands the binary language of moisture vaporators) is a new and improved transfer of the KCCI version from the master broadcast recording, WITH commercials and bumpers intact.  This was being worked on some time back, but unfortunately progress stalled at the source.  Hopefully that gets back on track again soonish.

--SKot

Projects:
Return Of The Ewok and Other Short Films (with OCPmovie) [COMPLETED]
Preserving the…cringe…Star Wars Holiday Special [COMPLETED]
The Star Wars TV Commercials Project [DORMANT]
Felix the Cat 1919-1930 early film shorts preservation [ONGOING]
Lights Out! (lost TV anthology shows) [ONGOING]
Iznogoud (1995 animated series) English audio preservation [ONGOING]

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Hm, is the "Zion hybrid" "available" somewhere ? It's not on myspleen :-)

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arg, newsgroups :( But thanks anyway

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pittrek said:

arg, newsgroups :( But thanks anyway

arg, agreed. 

Just for what its worth: I'm always open to lending my skills as an editor to a project like the one mentioned above (with everything intact). Granted I'm sure most people here have those skills but just throwing it out there. Working as a full-time video editor for a media studio I've got access to lots of fun toys and gear and I'd love to help out in any way I can.

Now to figure out how to get bloody newsgroups to work...

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OFF TOPIC...

This isn't the appropriate group to pose the specific question, except that it's the group I'd like eventually to share with. I've been compiling the bits and pieces for years now, pulling from a variety of web sites and videos, and I keep planning to create a disk of SWHS bonus material.

What holds me back is that a few of the sources are widescreen. The Special was 4:3, and so is most of what's out there that refers to it, which means that this will be a 4:3 disc. But the several DVD programs I've experimented with take those widescreen images and stretch them vertically. Harrison Ford and Conan O'Brien look more than a little strange.

Are there simple ways to reframe the widescreen video as letterboxed 4:3 video?

“Before the Dark Times. Before the Prequels.”

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MattMahdi said:

OFF TOPIC...

This isn't the appropriate group to pose the specific question, except that it's the group I'd like eventually to share with. I've been compiling the bits and pieces for years now, pulling from a variety of web sites and videos, and I keep planning to create a disk of SWHS bonus material.

What holds me back is that a few of the sources are widescreen. The Special was 4:3, and so is most of what's out there that refers to it, which means that this will be a 4:3 disc. But the several DVD programs I've experimented with take those widescreen images and stretch them vertically. Harrison Ford and Conan O'Brien look more than a little strange.

Are there simple ways to reframe the widescreen video as letterboxed 4:3 video?

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Panorama--an-AviSynth-function-for-converting-4-3-into-16-9/topic/7642/

Edit : Sorry, I didn't realize you want to do the direct opposite of what I originally thought :-(

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No, that's not what he needs.

For progressive sources, a widescreen 16:9 to letterboxed 4:3 conversion is easily implemented by an AviSynth script thus:

spline16resize(720, 360)
addborders(0, 60, 0, 60)

Interlaced sources (your Harrison Ford/Conan O'Brien video will most likely fall into this category) are more difficult:

bob()
spline16resize(720, 360)
separatefields()
selectevery(4,0,3)
weave()
addborders(0, 60, 0, 60)

Replacing the dumb Bob() with a more intelligent adaptive bobber may give you better quality.

If you need any more info I suggest you start a new thread in the How-To's and Technical Discussions forum.

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 (Edited)

I have 8 9 (found another one) different Holiday Specials on my harddrive.  Screengrabs from MPC.

I have no idea if they're identified correctly, but this is what they are called on my drive. Not even sure if they're different.

As far as I can tell, KCCI is the only version to have the complete first seconds.

"WMAR 2"

"KCMO TV5"

"KCCI from OCP"

"KCCI from ANGRYSUN"

"Zion Hybrid"

"RIFFTRAX DVD"

"WMAR Ruthless Edit"

"KMAR"

"VCD version" from eBay about ten years ago. No station identifier that I could find.

Visit my *NEW* Star Wars on Video Collection site:

http://www.swonvideo.com

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Video Collector said:

"VCD version" from eBay about ten years ago. No station identifier that I could find.

That's a beauty. Makes me wish I still had my old VHS copy... got it from someone on the Internet back around 1996.

“Before the Dark Times. Before the Prequels.”

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Moth3r said:

If you need any more info I suggest you start a new thread in the How-To's and Technical Discussions forum.

I thought I might have to, but I'll experiment with your suggestion first.

At the very least you and pittrek have given me some guidance on what I do (and don't) want to look for. Thanks!

“Before the Dark Times. Before the Prequels.”

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MattMahdi said:

Video Collector said:

"VCD version" from eBay about ten years ago. No station identifier that I could find.

That's a beauty. Makes me wish I still had my old VHS copy... got it from someone on the Internet back around 1996.

I've actually still got my original VHS copy I bought from an underground music store back in 1994 or 95.  It was the first copy I had ever run across, or even heard about...ever.  Considering I'd been trying to find it since the original airing back in 1978, I was ecstatic when I saw it!

It had a xeroxed wraparound cover on orange paper taped over the standard store-bought videotape sleeve, and the quality was absolutely horrible.  But just to see it and to be able to show people that it really exists was worth the price of admission...

--SKot

Projects:
Return Of The Ewok and Other Short Films (with OCPmovie) [COMPLETED]
Preserving the…cringe…Star Wars Holiday Special [COMPLETED]
The Star Wars TV Commercials Project [DORMANT]
Felix the Cat 1919-1930 early film shorts preservation [ONGOING]
Lights Out! (lost TV anthology shows) [ONGOING]
Iznogoud (1995 animated series) English audio preservation [ONGOING]

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MattMahdi said:

OFF TOPIC...

This isn't the appropriate group to pose the specific question, except that it's the group I'd like eventually to share with. I've been compiling the bits and pieces for years now, pulling from a variety of web sites and videos, and I keep planning to create a disk of SWHS bonus material.

What holds me back is that a few of the sources are widescreen. The Special was 4:3, and so is most of what's out there that refers to it, which means that this will be a 4:3 disc. But the several DVD programs I've experimented with take those widescreen images and stretch them vertically. Harrison Ford and Conan O'Brien look more than a little strange.

Are there simple ways to reframe the widescreen video as letterboxed 4:3 video?

A properly mastered disc will allow for varying aspect ratios. Presuming you had each feature as a seperate title stream you would just leave them all as is and the dvd player would adjust the method of playback depending on the aspect ratio.

that said you could always letterbox your 16:9 matterial, but that would result in a non anamorphic image which declines resolution. 

I work on a Mac and use professional software which allows me to set the specific aspect ratio for each track. I presume there are similar software solutions for the PC too but I'm not sure what.

Now having seen the screenshots I want that Zion version even more. I managed to find some info through google but it was simply a newsgroup archive and no way to download. Poo.

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Could someone on here maybe shed some light on the different versions I have? None, I'm looking at you :-)

What's the story behind the Zion Hybrid and the WMAR "Ruthless" edit?

The VCD capture is a little unfair, as it clears up after the first minute and looks okay after that. That VCD version was my first (1999, I believe), and it cost me an arm and a leg. Like SKot, I'd heard about this special for years, since 1983, actually. It was only with the advent of the internet and eBay I was able to first see it.

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http://www.swonvideo.com

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Video Collector said:

Could someone on here maybe shed some light on the different versions I have? None, I'm looking at you :-)

This might help a little...

What's the story behind the Zion Hybrid and the WMAR "Ruthless" edit?

I don't know anything about the "Ruthless" edit (a trim-down, perhaps?) but I do know that Zion's Hybrid took different sources and combined them to get the best elements of each for an overall better picture.  The results are obvious, as seen in that screen shot above.  However, I'm not sure why the aspect ratio is goofed up there...

The VCD capture is a little unfair, as it clears up after the first minute and looks okay after that. That VCD version was my first (1999, I believe), and it cost me an arm and a leg. Like SKot, I'd heard about this special for years, since 1983, actually. It was only with the advent of the internet and eBay I was able to first see it.

I do find it odd that I don't know anyone who had a copy of the Holiday Special prior to 1994*...which was right about the time when the world wide web started happening.  Of course, after that point copies began to spread all over the world, and eventually the better versions (like the KCCI) started to supersede the really dreadful ones, particularly when people were able to make digital copies and generational quality loss mostly ceased.

--SKot


* Obviously the original tapers had their copies before this, but they either weren't sharing or hadn't shared very widely yet.  If anyone can verify having a copy of the HS before 1994, I'd love to hear the details.

Projects:
Return Of The Ewok and Other Short Films (with OCPmovie) [COMPLETED]
Preserving the…cringe…Star Wars Holiday Special [COMPLETED]
The Star Wars TV Commercials Project [DORMANT]
Felix the Cat 1919-1930 early film shorts preservation [ONGOING]
Lights Out! (lost TV anthology shows) [ONGOING]
Iznogoud (1995 animated series) English audio preservation [ONGOING]

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 (Edited)

SKot wrote: I do find it odd that I don't know anyone who had a copy of the Holiday Special prior to 1994

Poking through usenet, there are few mentions in the 80s, (possibly only one in 1989.  Few in 1990 and 1991, but in 1992 there was posted about the special by a 'Joshua Ling' (e-mail address (in 1992) at USC) who offered to make copies for folks:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.sf.starwars/browse_thread/thread/2d782ba4b2c05668/4090718c5c9ee00f?q=%22star+wars+holiday+special%22#4090718c5c9ee00f

Searching for Joshua Ling and USC brings up a LinkdIn profile which mentions:

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/josh-ling/6/a96/205

Joshua Ling ... Archivist/Collections Manager at Stephen J. Sansweet, Sound Technician at University of Southern California, Projectionist at USC - School of

This could be one of the people who got the tape trading going.

*EDIT* here's a google+ account: https://plus.google.com/113624665393081966798/about

 

 

VideoCollector wrote: Could someone on here maybe shed some light on the different versions I have? None, I'm looking at you

I go by SKot's research in this category so: http://www.starwarsholidayspecial.com/versions.htm is the resource of merit.

 

My first copy came from a usenet resident tape trade, has a John Williams conducting piece tacked onto the end, mid to late 90s.