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Info Wanted: Anyone Planning on making Anamorphic versions using 2006 OUT DVDs? — Page 2
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Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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Originally posted by: THX
Laserman, do you think the improved scaling will outbalance the increased artifacting from re-encoding?
Laserman, do you think the improved scaling will outbalance the increased artifacting from re-encoding?
Absolutely, the scalers in even fairly high end widescreen TVs are awful.
Think about it, effectively the TV set *is* doing an on-the-fly re-encode to zoom the letterbox image up to display correctly on a 16:9 screen. If you do the re-encode on the computer instead, then the TV just displays the image without further processing.
A realtime, 'mass market' process like in the TV is much more likely to suffer from artifacts than an offline process that is constantly honed by enthusiasts.
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DJ
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Originally posted by: THX
Thanks for your answers, Karyudo & Laserman. I think my question was unclear, though, sorry. I can see that fanamorphic(TM) is bound to be better than TV scaling for a letterboxed Laserdisc capture. What I was concerned about was increased (compounded?) mpeg compression artifacts when coming from a (previously compressed) DVD source.
Thanks for your answers, Karyudo & Laserman. I think my question was unclear, though, sorry. I can see that fanamorphic(TM) is bound to be better than TV scaling for a letterboxed Laserdisc capture. What I was concerned about was increased (compounded?) mpeg compression artifacts when coming from a (previously compressed) DVD source.
Given that the new DVDs are going to be dual layer (they are, right?!?) and that the black bars of the letterbox do compress quite well, I don't think that the transfer will carry any notable MPEG-artifacts. If it does there are still filters to eliminate these next to sharpening the image.
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I have done this process many times and it always looks far better re-encoded than letting the TV do it. You don't get a lot of problems on the re-encode partially I think because you have resized and then processed the image, so the original blocks have now changed shape, had their edges less defined and moved position. So you don't get the typical problem of the exact same blocks being re-blocked if you know what I mean.
Anyway, don't take mt word for it, I haven't tried every TV out there, so try it yourself on any letterbox title and see how you go.
But doing it properly, it causes no offensive artifacting and gives a far superior viewing experience when I have done it in the past.
(Of course you could do a horrible job of the re-encode if not done properly!)
(Edited to fix at least some of my Dyslexic typing)
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What steps would you use to do this right,obviously rip to hard drive,then crop and IVTC,then I saw you mentioned Limitedsharpen,then re-size add appropriate borders and re-encode with CCE SP2 at ? (how many passes would you use)also is there any other filters you might use,I was thinking Didee's SeeSaw,but what denoiser would be good,I guess you cant answer that untill you see the source.
I really want to do this right,I have done it already a few times on LD captures,but I have never done an anamorphic conversion of a DVD,this will be my first time,but looking forward to the challenge,hopefully with a few tips from you and others, I will get this right.
thanks for your time
DJ
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There is an entire forum over at doom9 though with plenty of arguments over the best ways to do it, it is well worth a read and you could pick some methods and use a rewritable DVD and make a few sample til you get the best result for your particular telly.
I can't recommend what level of filtering to partake in until I get my hands on a GOUT set.
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Originally posted by: Laserman
Hard to say as I would be doing it all on the mac, I'm not really an avisynth guru, I tend to work out how to do something on *Nix or OSX and then pass the conceptual procedure onto people who know the PC free stuff to achieve the same results.
Hard to say as I would be doing it all on the mac, I'm not really an avisynth guru, I tend to work out how to do something on *Nix or OSX and then pass the conceptual procedure onto people who know the PC free stuff to achieve the same results.
I'm also a maccie, would be nice from you to explain what tools you use to improve the image of non-anamorphic DVDs, especially when there is no tool like AVIsynth.
For encoding I normally use MainConcept Encoder (I think the resizer is superior to compressor), and it's much faster also.
But what to use for "improving" the image?
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Originally posted by: Moth3r
(And, for the record, I was thinking of getting the PAL DVDs to make an anamorphic NTSC version - with the original mono mix as an alternative audio option.)
I like that idea quite a bit.(And, for the record, I was thinking of getting the PAL DVDs to make an anamorphic NTSC version - with the original mono mix as an alternative audio option.)
--SKot
Projects:
Return Of The Ewok and Other Short Films (with OCPmovie) [COMPLETED]
Preserving the…cringe…Star Wars Holiday Special [COMPLETED]
The Star Wars TV Commercials Project [DORMANT]
Felix the Cat 1919-1930 early film shorts preservation [ONGOING]
Lights Out! (lost TV anthology shows) [ONGOING]
Iznogoud (1995 animated series) English audio preservation [ONGOING]
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Originally posted by: DarthBalls1138
Well what if someones custom dvd went so far as to change the color and apply filters, would it then be considered a fan edit? No.
Also will the XO be considered a fan preservation since its using a different source...
(Note, it's X0, not XO.)Well what if someones custom dvd went so far as to change the color and apply filters, would it then be considered a fan edit? No.
If thats not far enough would what adywan is doing be considered far enough, what if someone did the same thing with this version instead of the 04 version?
Yes, inserting additional scenes and your own homemade special effects shots would qualify as a fan edit. Also will the XO be considered a fan preservation since its using a different source...
The X0 project was started as a preservation of a version of a film that hadn't had a DVD release. It's also partly a restoration, because of the ongoing efforts to clean up the film artefacts. As for allowing open discussion on the forum about how to obtain a copy when it's finished, I would guess probably not (but that's for Jay and Zion to discuss).
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I'd like to add back the original PCM tracks from the Laserdiscs, and have the alternative mono mix on a second audio track of Star Wars.
Would restoring "Close the Blast Doors" & Threepio's tractor beam line to the PCM track be considered a fan edit?
I would leave the video totally alone, apart from converting to anamorphic and some sharpening.
Star Wars 1977-1983
Star Trek 1966-1991
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Originally posted by: LeoneNut
I would leave the video totally alone, apart from converting to anamorphic and some sharpening.
I would leave the video totally alone, apart from converting to anamorphic and some sharpening.
I'm not sure that more sharpening would be a good idea, as it would make the picture even more grainy.
I, too, plan to make my own anamorphic version of these DVDs. Now, if only I can get my hands on the original mono mix...
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Originally posted by: wmgan
I'm not sure that more sharpening would be a good idea, as it would make the picture even more grainy.
I, too, plan to make my own anamorphic version of these DVDs. Now, if only I can get my hands on the original mono mix...
Originally posted by: LeoneNut
I would leave the video totally alone, apart from converting to anamorphic and some sharpening.
I would leave the video totally alone, apart from converting to anamorphic and some sharpening.
I'm not sure that more sharpening would be a good idea, as it would make the picture even more grainy.
I, too, plan to make my own anamorphic version of these DVDs. Now, if only I can get my hands on the original mono mix...
I am a TOTAL novice at all of this stuff but I think it would be a fairly fun an easy project for me to attempt, as I really don't want to do anything to the sound and picture other than making it anamorphic. Or am I way off on my thinking here?
*Oh, and I would like to keep the menus too if possible.
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Any ideas?
Thanks!
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Here's a quick rundown on the steps you would have to take to make anamorphic versions of the DVDs:
(1) Rip the DVD video to your hard drive using DVD Decrypter. For this purpose, I recommend using the "IFO" mode -- and be sure to select "Demux" for the video, audio and subtitle tracks you want.
(2) Open the demuxed video (.M2V) file in DGIndex (from the DGMPGDec suite) and use it to create an index (.D2V) file.
(3) Write an AviSynth (.AVS) script that looks something like this:
MPEG2Source("path\file.d2v")
# this would be to load the index file created in step (2)
# be sure to have "DGDecode.dll" in your AviSynth "plugins" folder, otherwise you'll have to call LoadPlugin
Crop(0, top, 0, -bottom)
# remove the black bars from the video
# it's a good idea to use the script editor in VirtualDubMod to find the right dimensions
Lanczos4Resize(width, height)
# the right dimensions will probably be something like 600x480
AddBorders(0, top, 0, bottom)
# add black bars to the top and bottom of the video to make it 720x480 (NTSC)
# of course, you could eliminate this step by including some of the black bars while cropping
# but I like doing it in two steps because it makes the math easier (what a thing for a math major to say)
# and, more importantly, to ensure the consistency of the black
(4) Open the .AVS file in TMPGEnc Plus (or whatever your favorite MPEG2 encoder is) and encode it using your desired settings. There's an excellent bitrate calculator at http://dvd-hq.info/Calculator.html -- though I've found that 2-pass VBR output by TMPGEnc tends to be smaller than expected, so you can be a little more generous when specifying your target average bitrate.
(5) If you're not making any changes to the audio and subtitle tracks, you can just use the demuxed files you obtained in step (1).
(6) Author the DVD in DVD-lab Pro (or whatever your favorite DVD authoring software is). It's possible to recreate the original menus with just a bit of work (like what I did for my edit of The Producers, for example).
(7) Burn the DVD with your favorite burning program! I personally like building .ISO files with PgcEdit and burning them with ImgBurn (though I really gotta try the new "build" feature of ImgBurn).
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I'm getting worried there are going to be several thousand new projects to collect and watch and criticize....