I never asked the two guys I watched v3 with about Palpatine’s plan, but seeing as how they never questioned it during the movie or after it was finished I’d have to wager that it made sense the way we currently have it. As in, it doesn’t necessarily need to be explained any more.
I think Palpatine’s plan was clear enough in that the audience never expects him to be trustworthy about what his true intentions are.
I’ve been thinking, in order to give some useful plot function to Rey’s vision, how about showing glimpses of Kylo Ren using the Wayfinder and going through the Nebula? I think this would motivate Rey checking out the Wayfinder on the book (if that’s still something that’s being kept), which then feeds into her showing Leia. Also it makes it so that when Rey gets the Wayfinder from Kylo’s Tie whisperer, she has at least already seen it there before and it doesn’t feel as much like it’s coming out of nowhere.
I do like the logic of that! It’s better than Rey just happening to flip through that page the day they find out about Exegol.
As of now though, I think we’re changing that page to set up Force healing, since it plays a bit of a role in the movie too and is never really addressed. We can assume she had just scene that read about it before this day. Though your idea would still benefit from her seeing it in a vision for the other reasons you mentioned.
I applaud the incredible rendition for the Force healing illustration. However, I do think that at a conceptual level, it is a tad coincidental that Rey was reading up about that particular power the very day she would need to use it twice (and presumably for the first time since it is suggested she doesn’t leave the base).
I think having her verbally tell BB-8 that she read up on it in the books is enough of an explanation if one would actually want to include one. I personally don’t think it’s super necessary to have any explanation (after all, nobody questioned Baby Yoda using it) but that’s beside the point, I guess.
Alluding to the concept of Force healing before it happens feels a tad premature imo vs having Rey look up the Wayfinder on the book because she saw it in her vision, which serves a plot function that strenghten the connective tissue of the whole first act and pays off in the third act.
It does make sense in that case to keep the Wayfinder in the first Jedi Text scene, and does lead into the next scene of Rey telling Leia about it.
So perhaps we should move the Force healing illustration to another page. There’s one Rey turns away from right at the beginning of that first scene, which is a page with a cutout including some more text. We could just delete the text from that cutout and place the illustration there. It would fit better there anyway, and be in the center of the page.
The trouble with that is it becomes a very blink-and-you-miss-it moment, but that may be fine if there’s a line later referencing the texts as her inspiration.
The nice thing about that solution is that we never see that page again, as she turns to the Wayfinder from the other direction in the second scene.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
Also, and this is a related idea from the Radical Redux Thread, but when Rey is showing Leia the Wayfinder illustration she says ‘There are cyphers here I can’t read’, which may be an opportunity to show an illustration or two of the Sith Throne and the legends of its power to revive dead Sith. This would again be a rough little set of drawings placed on the page right before the Wayfinder page which would need to be vague, but if we see the shape of the Sith throne and some symbols it could go a long way to suggesting that the Throne was what allowed Palpatine to be revived and that destroying it would lend more finality to his defeat.
Of course, this idea doesn’t preclude any other interpretations of the final confrontation or require any other changes to the film.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
A part of my heart breaks to think all of those hours down the drain, but to be honest most of that afternoon I spent working on that shot was me just figuring out how to do it. Gotta kill your darlings I guess. But now that I know the easiest way to do it, I wouldn’t care to add whatever to those shots if I was provided the drawings and the shots needed to make them (honestly should just snag a high quality digital version of the movie). I need a better quality version of that Jannah shot too.
Ah yeah that stinks. Of course, Hal still has to chime in and he may say to keep the shot as it is planned. No harm in waiting a bit before doing any more work on this.
But if everyone thinks this is the way to go, I can have the new drawings and mockups done pretty quick.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
I think Palpatine’s plan was clear enough in that the audience never expects him to be trustworthy about what his true intentions are.
I’ve been thinking, in order to give some useful plot function to Rey’s vision, how about showing glimpses of Kylo Ren using the Wayfinder and going through the Nebula? I think this would motivate Rey checking out the Wayfinder on the book (if that’s still something that’s being kept), which then feeds into her showing Leia. Also it makes it so that when Rey gets the Wayfinder from Kylo’s Tie whisperer, she has at least already seen it there before and it doesn’t feel as much like it’s coming out of nowhere.
I don’t think that’s really necessary. The vision serves as a nice character beat for Rey in a film that is so much of just plot plot plot. She’s also very distraught by the vision so the idea that she’s gleaming useful information would feel incongruous. Plus in general it’s solving a problem I don’t think needs fixing - Rey knowing about the wayfinders in the first place, since as we see it’s in the book.
And when she looks for one in Kylo’s ship, it’s not coming from nowhere. First of all Lando says that two were made. It’s simple logic that if Kylo has been to Exegol he must have used the other one.
I applaud the incredible rendition for the Force healing illustration. However, I do think that at a conceptual level, it is a tad coincidental that Rey was reading up about that particular power the very day she would need to use it twice (and presumably for the first time since it is suggested she doesn’t leave the base).
I think having her verbally tell BB-8 that she read up on it in the books is enough of an explanation if one would actually want to include one. I personally don’t think it’s super necessary to have any explanation (after all, nobody questioned Baby Yoda using it) but that’s beside the point, I guess.
Alluding to the concept of Force healing before it happens feels a tad premature imo vs having Rey look up the Wayfinder on the book because she saw it in her vision, which serves a plot function that strenghten the connective tissue of the whole first act and pays off in the third act.
Showing, as they say, is better than telling. I honestly personally think the illustration change is good and the line to BB-8 is not worth the hassle. I agree that you don’t even really need to show the force healing illustration either but I think between the two (force healing vs. wayfinder) it’s the stronger choice.
Truthfully if we were to go through and try to fix every coincidence in a Star Wars film it would never end. There’s nothing to suggest Rey is only seeing this page for the first time, in fact she’s actually flipping back to it in the shot rather than flipping forward to it. If anything you could interpret the force healing illustration as a pet concept that has fascinated her since she started reading the books.
Basically, I think it’s a stronger choice to show something that develops Rey’s character (both with the book and the vision) than to overcomplicate things solely for the purpose of fixing a coincidence. I think the plot point of the wayfinders is made fairly clear a number of times to not need further screentime.
I’m with Dominic on this. Neither force healing or the wayfinder really need to be shown in the texts at that point, anyway. With the healing illustration we get something new, and she doesn’t need to see Kylo using the wayfinder. Maybe a quarter-second flash of one wouldn’t hurt to toss in, but it’s unnecessary. It already seemed silly to me in the theater that Rey burned down the TIE only for Luke to point out, “hey be careful, there might be stuff in there that you need.” Also that Kylo must have transferred the wayfinder after Rey destroyed the first TIE on Pasaana.
I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently.
We could always kill two birds with one stone by changing our illustration of Force healing. It could explain Rey’s crackly saber a bit. Either it could just show a shattered Kyber crystal being given Force energy, or it could be an additional illustration next to our current one. Although that runs the risk of being too crowded visually.
I think the first option makes the most sense. It would mean that Rey is trying to use this power in an unconventional non-Jedi way with the serpent. But perhaps the Jedi were wrong to not want to use this power on sentient beings? Idk, this is all stuff I covered in my novelization so I’m a bit biased.
I’d say the shot of the Jedi texts is allowed to tell us one single thing, not multiple. The crackly saber needs no overt explanation other than perhaps a reminder that it was broken in the prior movie.
I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently.
I think the new illustration works great and should be left alone.
We already see the lightsaber looks different and that Rey fixed it. It doesn’t need more explanation than that.
We see Kylo’s Wayfinder at the beginning of the movie and it leading him to Exegol. Rey hears Exegol and remembers reading it in Luke’s journal and it says you need a Wayfinder to get there. Easy.
Force healing is the issue. It randomly pops up out of nowhere in the film. Seeing the hint of it early on in the texts and then having Rey enforce that she learned it by reading the texts later on works wonderfully.
The ancient texts work better when they have knowledge of unknown force powers. Not being an encyclopedia of new items in Episode IX. Save that for Luke’s journal.
The Star Wars Saga:
I · II · III · IV · V · VI · VII · VIII · IX | Rogue One · Solo
What was first just a dream has become a frightening reality…
Yeah, you’re right, Hal.
I do disagree though that Rey explicitly confirming where she learned it from in the scene is useless. What we currently have in the texts is definitely something a more casual viewer could gloss over or be unsure of what exactly it’s referring to. When Rey refers to the texts in the later scene, it ensures that everybody has made the connection from earlier in the film.
Yeah, you’re right, Hal.
I do disagree though that Rey explicitly confirming where she learned it from in the scene is useless. What we currently have in the texts is definitely something a more casual viewer could gloss over or be unsure of what exactly it’s referring to. When Rey refers to the texts in the later scene, it ensures that everybody has made the connection from earlier in the film.
I think it ultimately just comes down to how important you think explaining the power to the audience is. Personally I think not very (I wouldn’t mind if you blinked and missed it), but for this edit it’s of course up to Hal to decide.
Yeah, you’re right, Hal.
I do disagree though that Rey explicitly confirming where she learned it from in the scene is useless. What we currently have in the texts is definitely something a more casual viewer could gloss over or be unsure of what exactly it’s referring to. When Rey refers to the texts in the later scene, it ensures that everybody has made the connection from earlier in the film.
I think it ultimately just comes down to how important you think explaining the power to the audience is. Personally I think not very (I wouldn’t mind if you blinked and missed it), but for this edit it’s of course up to Hal to decide.
Her using the power without explanation is not what is troublesome. What is troublesome is the fact that it is a power which completely invalidates Anakin’s entire arc because it is clearly a Jedi power in origin and yet if it had existed when there was the threat of Padme dying from childbirth it never should have been an issue for him to stay on team Jedi.
So, for the conclusion of the Skywalker saga, there needs to be a clear and direct explanation for why this power wasn’t around during the other movies. It being an ancient and obscure ability makes sense. As Anakin tells Palpatine: “I know there are things about the Force they aren’t telling me.” Maybe he was correct about that, and only Jedi Master’s could access the restricted section to read about this power which had since become forbidden in more recent times due to Jedi disillusionment (“Mourn them do not, miss them do not.”)
See, now this power has arguably enhanced the prequels instead of tearing them down. The Jedi’s own dogma brought them down.
Personally I always felt that the film makes a clear implication that the power comes from the bond of the dyad.
The lifeforce of your bond… a dyad in the Force. A power like life itself. Unseen for generations. And now… the power of two restores the one, true Emperor.
(and then he drains their energy - nearly killing them - and restores his damaged body)
The only thing that confuses this is that Grogu has the power in the Mandalorian, but then you’re dealing with stuff outside the movie.
That could have worked as an explanation. But the fact that Palpatine can drain their energy without their approval signals to me that he is using a different version of the same power.
Perhaps Plagueis was capable of draining life from one individual and giving it to another. And Palpatine “perfected” the maneuver during his time on Exegol by figuring out how to drain Force energy into himself.
I get it, this is all speculative mumbo jumbo, but I believe it is the most reasonable explanation for everything seeing as how it brings the whole saga full circle.
Personally I always felt that the film makes a clear implication that the power comes from the bond of the dyad.
The lifeforce of your bond… a dyad in the Force. A power like life itself. Unseen for generations. And now… the power of two restores the one, true Emperor.
(and then he drains their energy - nearly killing them - and restores his damaged body)
The only thing that confuses this is that Grogu has the power in the Mandalorian, but then you’re dealing with stuff outside the movie.
This is the first I’ve heard that the Force healing came from the dyad. It also seems like Palps can only use this power when they are together, which doesn’t explain Rey’s healing the snake.
If the intention was clear, it sure seems like a lot of people completely missed it.
JEDIT: This isn’t to say I dislike the idea. It’s pretty good, but it would make more sense if the life transfer power only worked to transfer life force from one member of the dyad to another (except for Palps warping it using his own power). The issue again is the snake, which argues that this is just a power that Rey has.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
I’m on the camp of not explaining it. I never bumped into that one in the movie theater as I felt that it was a power that made sense for Jedi to have originally and to have abandoned by the time of the PT as they got more dogmatic and became more and more detached.
it was a power that made sense for Jedi to have originally and to have abandoned by the time of the PT as they got more dogmatic and became more and more detached.
Yes, but you cannot possibly expect the majority of people to come to this conclusion without at least a couple of clues in the film. Unless you are an avid Star Wars fan and purposely trying to play devil’s advocate, there is no way you could come to this conclusion.
Having both the Jedi text diagram and Rey’s brief explanation is enough for the general audience to pick up on without going into a nerdy deep dive like I just did lmao.
The dyad would’ve been a good way to have the power in the movie without it disrupting future storytelling. Like only they can do it. At the very least, full-on resurrection could be something only they could do maybe. Guess it just depends on future stories.
As far as the movie goes, Rey doesn’t seem surprised that she can heal the snake. She just decides to do it, and explains to BB-8 what she did. Which to me signals she learned it from somewhere, and the obvious answer being the Jedi texts.
It could be an ancient Jedi ability, or it could’ve been an obscure ability Luke learned somewhere else and wrote about, since we know Luke also wrote in the texts.
I absolutely think the movie should explain it, and I love the image in the Jedi Texts and the additional line already done for the snake.
“You will find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view” — Obi-Wan Kenobi
Even though I helped make the new shot, I’m glad krlozdac brought this up to debate the pros and cons of using it vs a different idea. These are definitely good discussions to have.
Personally I always felt that the film makes a clear implication that the power comes from the bond of the dyad.
The lifeforce of your bond… a dyad in the Force. A power like life itself. Unseen for generations. And now… the power of two restores the one, true Emperor.
(and then he drains their energy - nearly killing them - and restores his damaged body)
The only thing that confuses this is that Grogu has the power in the Mandalorian, but then you’re dealing with stuff outside the movie.
This is the first I’ve heard that the Force healing came from the dyad. It also seems like Palps can only use this power when they are together, which doesn’t explain Rey’s healing the snake.
If the intention was clear, it sure seems like a lot of people completely missed it.
JEDIT: This isn’t to say I dislike the idea. It’s pretty good, but it would make more sense if the life transfer power only worked to transfer life force from one member of the dyad to another (except for Palps warping it using his own power). The issue again is the snake, which argues that this is just a power that Rey has.
This was my interpretation at least when I first saw the film (or maybe on the second viewing).
I agree I wouldn’t say the film “makes it clear,” just that it makes a “clear implication,” semantics but I just mean I believe the dialogue there is specifically worded to make a link between the power and the dyad. But ultimately, as merely an implication, it would not necessarily be “clear” to many viewers.
Ultimately, again, I believe it comes down to how much explanation one personally wants to explain the power. For me, it’s not something that ever bothered me, I just interpreted it as, they’re part of this dyad gives them extra power/power of life or whatever. They can heal each other, others, snakes, what have you. Because of this bond, Rey instinctively knows how to use it. That’s how I took it, works for me. She read it in a book instead? Sure, why not. It has nothing to do with the dyad? Sure, why not. Personal preference.