Back on topic.
I wonder if this season we will finally see the live action debut of Fenn Rau. I’m pretty sure that’s been the plan all along seeing as the character bears a strong physical resemblance to Kevin McKidd, his voice actor.
Jon Favreau was doing a press tour for season 3 of The Mandalorian, and was asked about the original theatrical version of the Original Trilogy:
Moovy TV: “I know this is a bit of a ‘hot potato subject’, but don’t you have enough clout at Lucasfilm now to get the original theatrical editions re-released? I want to see Sebastian Shaw’s ghost in high definition!”
Jon Favreau: “Do you think anybody but us, the people who grew up with it, anybody would care? Because I know to younger people, that’s what I figured out, that the younger people have a whole different perception of what Star Wars is, each generation. For the millennials, it’s the Prequels. Zoomers, sometimes it’s The Clone Wars. I’ve seen people come up to Dave Filoni and that’s their entree into it.”
Favreau then brought the conversation back to The Mandalorian.
The video of the conversation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffbgwHqbdJ0 (1+ minute long)
What a disappointing response from him. I also found it a little narrow minded. That people from different generations do not want to watch releases from a different era? To not want to watch what their parents saw. Or to see what the original films were like? The version that won so many awards and changed special effects in films. Film history preserved?
And why shouldn’t older fans wanting to see that original version in HD or 4K be enough of a reason? Why not have the choice for fans to be able to watch all the different versions? Ugh.
Jon Favreau is kind of right though. I mean, I’m an older millennial that grew up with the OT. I saw the Prequels as a teenager and I hated them. They did not fit my perception of what Star Wars should be at all. But nowadays I’ve learned that many younger people see the Prequels as the reference point for what Star Wars is. I never thought that would happen, but here we are.
I do agree it would be nice to have the originals preserved in 4K, mostly for historical interest, to see exactly what 1970s audiences saw. But all of the shots that blew everyone away in 1977 are still there. That’s the irony of the Special Editions. Most of the added stuff ended up making the film look worse, because it looks like 90s CGI and thus aged worse than the original effects from the 70s.
They did not fit my perception of what Star Wars should be at all. But nowadays I’ve learned that many younger people see the Prequels as the reference point for what Star Wars is. I never thought that would happen, but here we are.
Audiences are getting dumber over time I guess…
Back on topic.
I wonder if this season we will finally see the live action debut of Fenn Rau. I’m pretty sure that’s been the plan all along seeing as the character bears a strong physical resemblance to Kevin McKidd, his voice actor.
More Mandalorian stuff from TCW and Rebels is pretty likely. How the random inconsequential pirate story will fit remains to be seen.
Jon Favreau: “Do you think anybody but us, the people who grew up with it, anybody would care? Because I know to younger people, that’s what I figured out, that the younger people have a whole different perception of what Star Wars is, each generation. For the millennials, it’s the Prequels. Zoomers, sometimes it’s The Clone Wars. I’ve seen people come up to Dave Filoni and that’s their entree into it.”
I think he’d be surprised. I’m a zoomer and I’d love to have the OOT released in HD, and I don’t think I’m the only one. Releasing the theatrical editions for nostalgia purposes really only serves older generations, it’s true, but that’s important too. And there’s the issue of film preservation to be taken into account as well. It’s a bit of a strange response from Jon imo.
I wonder if he WOULD be able to influence the decision on releasing the films. I imagine Disney are probably scared of the drama it might create.
“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”
I also think he underestimates the continued power of the original films. As a Millennial, I was first exposed to the OT on VHS in 1993 or 1994, and I imagine for many Millennials up until 1997 it was the same way. My little brother may have first watched the '97 versions, but there are several generations who were raised exclusively on the unaltered films, and who never cared for the prequels despite being children when they were released.
And all this is ignoring the argument for historical preservation and simple decency in preserving the work of those who originally made the films, such as the craftspeople who did the matte paintings and model work that has been simply erased. It genuinely makes me mad when people say ‘no one cares lol’ when for most people, they have been deprived of the opportunity to care by a generations-long campaign of artistic suppression by the most powerful entertainment companies on the planet.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
I don’t think Favreau was underestimating anything. That sounded very much like a political non-answer.
In fact, he doesn’t actually answer the question. He responds with a question of his own and then starts going down that trail about why the original question is irrelevant without ever actually answering it. Total political evasion.
But I agree, it was terribly disappointing (though not at all surprising) to hear.
And all this is ignoring the argument for historical preservation and simple decency in preserving the work of those who originally made the films, such as the craftspeople who did the matte paintings and model work that has been simply erased.
Just out of curiosity, do you recall off hand what matte paintings or model work was erased? I thought I was pretty familiar with the Special Edition changes, but I can’t recall off hand any actual models or matte paintings that were erased. I thought the Special Editions mostly just added things, like adding additional frames (e.g. arrival at Mos Eisley) or inserting things into existing frames. I know they removed some frames of Stormtroopers getting shot, which sucks, along with various other tweaks ranging from irrelevant to dramatically harmful, but IIRC most (or all?) of the original matte paintings are still there (like the Death Star hangar bay, Yavin IV temples, etc.)
I agree with your general sentiment though. Perhaps the worst crime is that OG Sy Snootles and platinum disco hit single Lapti Nek are now lost to time… Sadly, Jabba’s palace has never regained that original level of sleaziness.
And all this is ignoring the argument for historical preservation and simple decency in preserving the work of those who originally made the films, such as the craftspeople who did the matte paintings and model work that has been simply erased.
Just out of curiosity, do you recall off hand what matte paintings or model work was erased? I thought I was pretty familiar with the Special Edition changes, but I can’t recall off hand any actual models or matte paintings that were erased. I thought the Special Editions mostly just added things, like adding additional frames (e.g. arrival at Mos Eisley) or inserting things into existing frames. I know they removed some frames of Stormtroopers getting shot, which sucks, along with various other tweaks ranging from irrelevant to dramatically harmful, but IIRC most (or all?) of the original matte paintings are still there (like the Death Star hangar bay, Yavin IV temples, etc.)
Actually, both of the examples you mentioned were replaced for the SE. The new mattes do look better from an objective point of view, but the original work has still been erased.
Also, several model shots were replaced with CGI, especially during the climactic Death Star battle. Again, most of the new shots look better, but that doesn’t change the fact that real people worked their asses off to achieve those shots, and it’s just gone now. Of course, if the original versions were officially available, this wouldn’t be a problem.
My preferred Skywalker Saga experience:
I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX
Historical preservation of movie edits should NOT be regulated to an assumed “interest”. SW fans, today, are especially eclectic so you can’t act like the “fan base” wants this or that. It is a silly political response. He’s basically saying “That ain’t happening” then trying to defend his employers with reasons.
And all this is ignoring the argument for historical preservation and simple decency in preserving the work of those who originally made the films, such as the craftspeople who did the matte paintings and model work that has been simply erased.
Just out of curiosity, do you recall off hand what matte paintings or model work was erased? I thought I was pretty familiar with the Special Edition changes, but I can’t recall off hand any actual models or matte paintings that were erased.
If you’ve never done so, I highly recommend looking through the visual comparison galleries compiled by doubleofive.
And all this is ignoring the argument for historical preservation and simple decency in preserving the work of those who originally made the films, such as the craftspeople who did the matte paintings and model work that has been simply erased.
Just out of curiosity, do you recall off hand what matte paintings or model work was erased? I thought I was pretty familiar with the Special Edition changes, but I can’t recall off hand any actual models or matte paintings that were erased. I thought the Special Editions mostly just added things, like adding additional frames (e.g. arrival at Mos Eisley) or inserting things into existing frames. I know they removed some frames of Stormtroopers getting shot, which sucks, along with various other tweaks ranging from irrelevant to dramatically harmful, but IIRC most (or all?) of the original matte paintings are still there (like the Death Star hangar bay, Yavin IV temples, etc.)
doubleofive and oojason did some threads on this. From the OT Discussion Index:
• Original Trilogy Film Crew & People Behind The Scenes: Profiles, Info & Links… (2019 thread)
• The Lost Art of Star Wars - article by doubleofive. A gallery of shots where the original work for the theatrical version of the OT… is just gone. Some of it award-winning, some if it using technology they were sometimes inventing to complete, and all of it… film history.
• List of Academy Awards for The Original Trilogy - article by doubleofive. Includes content replaced in the various Special Editions.
• Award winning artist Harrison Ellenshaw gave a presentation at The Academy in 2019 on his matte paintings for the Star Wars Original Trilogy… but had to use footage from the Special Edition versions… where his work had actually been replaced over the years. (He appears at 76 minutes into the ‘Galactic Innovations’ video - though the whole 2+ hour video is well worth a watch.)
and for shots and scenes being replaced:
‘Complete Comparison of Special Edition Visual Changes’ thread, by doubleofive
(^ in the 1st post of the above linked thread there is a list of many differing sources which cover the changes made to the films)
I saw Tobar’s post above and had a look doubleofive’s twitter account; where SWVC has a thread on Jon Favreau’s comments:
https://twitter.com/StarWarsVisComp/status/1634198599465684994
In there is this “before/after being asked about the theatrical versions being released” photo:
I just found the photo funny 😃
I think Favreau is wrong to narrow fandom like he did in the video. Lucasfilm love to use their old saying of “Star Wars is for everyone”, except when it suits them otherwise. Thousands of people have come here for Despecialized, 4K77/80/83, and earlier OT preservation projects, and probably hundreds of thousands of people on torrents, P2P, usenet and “dodgy” sharing websites over time? And dickheads selling them on ebay, cons and markets?
But that Jon Favreau says his Mandalorian show is for everyone? This is either some good skilled PR, or nicely shifting the conversation back to The Mandalorian in the video. That, or he has a big opinion of his show in comparison to the OT.
If the news is correct and Disney needs the money they could easily bring some in, and also some goodwill from a fractured fandom, by releasing the theatrical OT films on the big screen again. Like they did in 1997 for the Special Editions, for old and new fans alike, and even just film buffs. Then release them on physical media a year or so after for anyone that wants them. And then put them on Disney+ later as an attractive alternative for extra subscribers?
But no. It is just us old guys that would like to see the theatrical versions of the OT again. Isn’t that right, Jon? Ha!
The Imperial need for control is so desperate because it is so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear.
Lucasfilm could finally release the 1997 Special Editions in HD/4K on physical media too. Then later add it to Disney+ as an option. Simply make it clear the latest 2019 Maclunkey versions are still the official version, so George’s ego is pleased and satisfied, and that the 1997 Special Edition version is just The Final Cut an earlier version of the films.
Like a bonus option or something.
The way I see it, Disney will only contemplate releasing official versions of the GOUT after George Lucas dies, and even then it might be a longshot.
Just out of curiosity, do you recall off hand what matte paintings or model work was erased? I thought I was pretty familiar with the Special Edition changes, but I can’t recall off hand any actual models or matte paintings that were erased.
Actually, both of the examples you mentioned were replaced for the SE. The new mattes do look better from an objective point of view, but the original work has still been erased.
This is way off topic now, but Channel72 proves his point. Eventually only a dozen people on here will remember anything was changed.
I’m not sure how to feel about this latest episode. We finally get a good look at the heart of the New Republic, and it seems a bit corny and mundane. My preconceptions are heavily influenced by EU stuff where Chandrila was the New Republic capital, and there were all these politicians trying to make alliances and increase their fleets to fight Imperial remnants. In this version of the New Republic, it seems they’ve decommissioned the Rebel fleet, and are completely against using any Imperial technology. (Which is stupid, because Imperial tech is mostly just next generation Old Republic tech.)
Also parts of Coruscant feel somehow… cheap. The apartment complex looked like a parking garage. And it bothered me that when we see someone flying through the city in a flying car with no roof, there doesn’t seem to be any wind or loud ambient noise. It makes the whole scene feel very fake. At least the Coruscant chase scenes in Attack of the Clones gave off these atmospheric cyberpunk vibes. Here it just feels like a green screen.
Somehow, I feel like the best depiction of Coruscant was in this old test footage from like 2010, made for George Lucas’ planned “Underworld” show that never panned out. It had this really atmospheric, Neo-Noir vibe.
Anyway, this was a strange episode. I liked seeing the New Republic, but really not much happened. They spend all this time on this elaborate chase through a flying subway, and the payoff is simply that Dr. Pershing gets betrayed by his friend for unknown reasons. Apparently the New Republic also has no ethical problems forcing medical procedures on people, but whatever.
I also noticed that the “in Universe” music playing at that outdoor park/festival on Coruscant was the “Resistance Theme” from the Sequel trilogy.
Finally, while it’s generally always the case that the concept art they show in the credits looks better than the actual filmed scenes, the difference usually isn’t that great. This time, the concept art looked orders of magnitude better than the actual filmed scenes. I mean, the concept art for the Imperial lab looked very cool, but in the scene itself the lab just looked like a random room with some tables and bits of equipment strewn about.
I’m not sure how to feel about this latest episode. … parts of Coruscant feel somehow… cheap. The apartment complex looked like a parking garage. And it bothered me that when we see someone flying through the city in a flying car with no roof, there doesn’t seem to be any wind or loud ambient noise. It makes the whole scene feel very fake.
Anyway, this was a strange episode. I liked seeing the New Republic, but really not much happened. They spend all this time on this elaborate chase through a flying subway, and the payoff is simply that Dr. Pershing gets betrayed by his friend for unknown reasons. Apparently the New Republic also has no ethical problems forcing medical procedures on people, but whatever.
Finally, while it’s generally always the case that the concept art they show in the credits looks better than the actual filmed scenes, the difference usually isn’t that great. This time, the concept art looked orders of magnitude better than the actual filmed scenes. I mean, the concept art for the Imperial lab looked very cool, but in the scene itself the lab just looked like a random room with some tables and bits of equipment strewn about.
Yes. It felt like the show had shifted from cosplaying the Original Trilogy to cosplaying Andor by way of the Prequels.
The Corruscant scenes were quite boring, especially considering this was meant to portray an intrigue. The writing & direction lacked pace and tension.
& after Andor the sets seemed cheap. The limitations of the volume were obvious. It didn’t feel lived in. The effects just seemed off at times. More reminiscent of contemporary Star Trek than Star Wars.
The dogfight with the Tie Interceptors was entertaining enough, I suppose.
This episode could have easily been one of the shorter 30 minute mandalorian episodes. Felt bloated for no reason.
The fact that Pershing is seemingly out of the picture now considering what was done to him, makes the episode seem even more irrelevant to focus so much time on him.
We’ll have to see though.
It honestly sucks being an EU fan, knowing how much better the New Republic could be. But it’s portrayal here makes sense considering the laughing stalk it becomes in the sequel trilogy.
So this guy was a mega genius and the dumbest idiot in the galaxy… and it took that long for them to reveal what everyone will have seen coming. Great stuff. Why was this not a five minute scene and why should we care about the troubled conscience of a tertiary character?
I thought the previous cliffhanger was leading to a good second half of THAT journey but no. I thought there would be some trouble with the magic water, or some delay, or … something. Instead it was an artificial ‘to be continued’ which suggests the episode ending and starting points are totally arbitrary, or have been played around with so that people aren’t bored.
So this guy was a mega genius and the dumbest idiot in the galaxy… and it took that long for them to reveal what everyone will have seen coming. Great stuff. Why was this not a five minute scene and why should we care about the troubled conscience of a tertiary character?
I thought the previous cliffhanger was leading to a good second half of THAT journey but no. I thought there would be some trouble with the magic water, or some delay, or … something. Instead it was an artificial ‘to be continued’ which suggests the episode ending and starting points are totally arbitrary, or have been played around with so that people aren’t bored.
This episode should have been spliced up (and shortened slightly) and used as a B-plot for episode 1 & 2. Those episodes had wonky pacing, and this stuff would have given those events some room to breathe.
Pacing is out the window but I actually loved this episode. Adored every part of the Coruscant plotline, it felt genuinely rich in worldbuilding and quite nuanced, and I really did become invested in Pershing and Elia as complex characters. In fact I’d watch a whole show about them and this cloning stuff.
That Tie Interceptor chase was brilliantly directed as well. A pretty thrilling start, although out of place for a slow-paced and tonally unusual episode.
“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”
if someone ask me what the season 3 of this show is about i would say i dont know a pointless season by far puting 2 mando eps in boba fett really fucked this show but the eps are cool but it seems that there is no story
Yeah, they’ve no idea what this show is about anymore. Mando isn’t Andor, doing what they just did isn’t the appeal of this show, nor has it ever been. Make a different show to explore the state of the galaxy in the post-ROTJ world since the VII-IX trilogy fucked up that part of the setting worldbuilding, but come on don’t put this in the middle of my nice, EIGHT EPISODES LONG show about Mando and Mandalorian culture (which they’ve been failing to make very compelling in this season so far).
Remove the Coruscant section from this episode and it’s pretty good… but only as a (literal) 10min epilogue to the previous episode. Putting those two Mando episodes in Boba Fett really was a poor decision in so many spheres it’s baffling - I wonder if they actively sabotaged themselves, or if one of the creatives or suits really had that bad of an idea.
I had similar feelings to everyone else on this latest episode: Good on its own (even though it’s just diet Andor), but it has absolutely no place in The Mandalorian.
It reminds me of the anthology episodes in season 3 of Atlanta. They were perfectly well-made and interesting short films, but every time one of them came on I was wondering “Where are all the characters? Where’s Donald Glover? Where’s Paperboy? Why is everyone white?”
The more of this season I see, the more I get the impression that Mando’s appearance on Book of Boba was a super last-minute decision. They wasted a perfectly good two-parter season opening by splicing it in the middle of a forgettable filler show, and now they’re just spinning their wheels until they can fill the required 8 episode runtime.
This season is really in need of a good fanedit: Not a movie edit, but one that combines BOBF’s Mando episodes with a trimmed Mando S3 in order to present it how the creators clearly wanted to.
My preferred Skywalker Saga experience:
I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX
I really liked this episode lol. I can’t wait to see where all the plotlines go! I really loved the exploration of the incompetence of the New Republic because it helps establish the sequel era in this real world political scenario. Love Dr. Pershing’s whole story and especially the scene where the rich Coruscanti people talk about how they can hardly tell the difference between the Empire and the New Republic. Very great stuff!
This season definitely isn’t the casual planet of the week stuff it was in season 1 and that’s a little disappointing - but if they’ve decided to fully commit to this being ‘the big story’ of this era I’m all for it. I also can’t wait to see where Bo-Katan’s character goes! I think she’s the character I’m most interested in right now.
They definitely portray the New Republic as somewhat dystopian. I can’t tell if that’s on purpose for thematic reasons, or they’re just trying to copy Andor because that’s what’s hot with the kids these days. But seriously, the New Republic is a giant bureaucracy that allows forced medical procedures, calls ex-Imperials by an ID number, and has these eerie social worker droids that ask if you’re having thoughts of disloyalty towards the government. I mean… at least Tarkin let you know he was just straight up evil and enjoys blowing up planets. These guys pretend to be the good guys while lobotomizing people with “bad thoughts”.
