So when Yoda and Dooku pulled out their swords to go at it, this implied that swords still held some importance as to the winner of the fight.
Dooku outright says “It is obvious that this contest can not be decided by our knowledge of the Force, but by our skills with a lightsaber.” At the risk of being really hyperbolic… can you get any more antithetical to the core concepts of Star Wars itself?
This right here, more than anything else, is why I question Lucas’ “genius”.
It isn’t antithetical at all. Yoda is better at the Force then at lightsaber combat, Dooku is just too arrogant to admit that. Yoda is literally just dodging everything Dooku tries to attack him with. Yoda was dominating the fight. So he tries to change the fight to something he thinks he’ll have a better chance at beating him with, but he’s wrong there too.
It’s not saying lightsaber combat is better then the Force.
So when Yoda and Dooku pulled out their swords to go at it, this implied that swords still held some importance as to the winner of the fight.
Dooku outright says “It is obvious that this contest can not be decided by our knowledge of the Force, but by our skills with a lightsaber.” At the risk of being really hyperbolic… can you get any more antithetical to the core concepts of Star Wars itself?
Big This.
That line puts the mystical force aside for glowsticks.
Maybe the most telling line in the PT?
Or it’s because of what I explained above? Because Dooku knew he had no chance against Yoda in terms of the Force so he changed the fight but was too arrogant to admit it, a very Sith trait and a general trait of Dooku’s character (always portraying himself as super confident)? Or do you just want to ignore that to fit your narrative?
It’s not saying lightsaber combat is better then the Force.
I disagree.
Or do you just want to ignore that to fit your narrative?
Stay salty.
I disagree.
On what basis? Dooku is inferior to Yoda in terms of Force power, so he switches to something on a lower level because he’s better at that (because Force powers require more training and skill). That’s what’s shown in the movie.
Or do you just want to ignore that to fit your narrative?
You’re not exempt from this yourself, y’know.
Yeah but it’s less like the reaction to mass murder and more like a case of indigestion.
Could say the same or worse about Leia to her home planet. It’s not Rabbit Hole.
“The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.” - DV
Yeah but it’s less like the reaction to mass murder and more like a case of indigestion.
Could say the same or worse about Leia to her home planet. It’s not Rabbit Hole.
To be fair, we never saw her reaction to its actual destruction, only getting back to her hours later.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
Or it’s because of what I explained above? Because Dooku knew he had no chance against Yoda in terms of the Force so he changed the fight but was too arrogant to admit it, a very Sith trait and a general trait of Dooku’s character (always portraying himself as super confident)?
Why does Yoda go along with it?
Plus, boiling down the Force to just a superpower to use to fight doesn’t help the prequels’ case when it comes to their treatment of the Force.
Reading R + L ≠ J theories
Yeah but it’s less like the reaction to mass murder and more like a case of indigestion.
Could say the same or worse about Leia to her home planet. It’s not Rabbit Hole.
To be fair, we never saw her reaction to its actual destruction, only getting back to her hours later.
Nevertheless, this is a failure of SW '77.
Or it’s because of what I explained above? Because Dooku knew he had no chance against Yoda in terms of the Force so he changed the fight but was too arrogant to admit it, a very Sith trait and a general trait of Dooku’s character (always portraying himself as super confident)?
Why does Yoda go along with it?
Yeah. If I was Yoda, I just would’ve used my Force powers to dismantle Dooku’s saber.
People watched a vague set of movies that were largely dependent on inference, but came away with a narrow view of ideas based on their own opinions. Star Wars is much more wide open. It would be very boring if everything followed a strict set of rules and nothing new or surprising happened. I’m sure this is the wrong place for such an opinion.
People watched a vague set of movies that were largely dependent on inference, but came away with a narrow view of ideas based on their own opinions. Star Wars is much more wide open. It would be very boring if everything followed a strict set of rules and nothing new or surprising happened.
I’m sure this is the wrong place for such an opinion.
Yeah but it’s less like the reaction to mass murder and more like a case of indigestion.
Could say the same or worse about Leia to her home planet. It’s not Rabbit Hole.
To be fair, we never saw her reaction to its actual destruction, only getting back to her hours later.
Nevertheless, this is a failure of SW '77.
Or just a deliberate creative decision. Leia is still technically a supporting character to Luke, so it makes sense to merely imply some character moments. After all, they shot a reaction for her planet’s destruction but chose to cut it, probably to keep the focus on Luke.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
How does the Force being used as a superpower in this instance boil down the entirety of the Force to being a superpower? That would be like saying Yoda using the Force to lift up Luke’s X-Wing in ESB boils it down to superpowers because he uses it as an example of what the Force is capable of if he believes in himself. It’s showing one way it can be used.
It’s not the “wrong place” for such an opinion, Rodney. You are free to have and share any opinion you want here. I mean, I everyone would hate for this to be a gatekeeping, hivemind forum where everybody must conform, right?
Right?
everyone would hate for this to be a gatekeeping, hivemind forum where everybody must conform, right?
Right?
Yeah but it’s less like the reaction to mass murder and more like a case of indigestion.
Could say the same or worse about Leia to her home planet. It’s not Rabbit Hole.
To be fair, we never saw her reaction to its actual destruction, only getting back to her hours later.
Nevertheless, this is a failure of SW '77.
Or just a deliberate creative decision. Leia is still technically a supporting character to Luke, so it makes sense to merely imply some character moments. After all, they shot a reaction for her planet’s destruction but chose to cut it, probably to keep the focus on Luke.
I wouldn’t be so sure. Lucas has a serious problem with writing convincing mourning. Whenever someone important died in ANH, or even an entire planet, the main characters were sad for one second and then got over it. He tried to fix this problem by adding more “emotional” dialogue in the prequels, but it just ended up being cheesy instead.
My preferred Skywalker Saga experience:
I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX
Even as a kid, I was underwhelmed by Leia’s non-reaction to Alderaan’s annihilation. A simple reaction shot of silent horror would’ve been enough.
G&G-Fan said:
That’s another thing that a lot of people miss. When he says “Do not underestimate the powers of the Emperor” that obviously means he faced him before. Obviously he was witness to the Emperor’s power first hand. That actually becomes a plot hole for anyone who removes that duel from the movie, because now how else would he know the Emperor’s power? It fits into the original trilogy perfectly.
I always took the line to mean that Anakin tried to beat the Emperor somehow and failed, thus becoming his thrall. How exactly would require some good writing. Instead Anakin was just dumb and fell for the most basic emotional trickery, then allowed Mace Windu die. And Yoda just knew all of Palpatine’s powers ahead of time, since he saw them from Dooku and wasn’t even surprised by them. They’re now just basic evil powers anyone can learn.
Yeah but it’s less like the reaction to mass murder and more like a case of indigestion.
Could say the same or worse about Leia to her home planet. It’s not Rabbit Hole.
To be fair, we never saw her reaction to its actual destruction, only getting back to her hours later.
Nevertheless, this is a failure of SW '77.
Or just a deliberate creative decision. Leia is still technically a supporting character to Luke, so it makes sense to merely imply some character moments. After all, they shot a reaction for her planet’s destruction but chose to cut it, probably to keep the focus on Luke.
People here are right about Lucas struggling with emotional storytelling, but this is true too. In ANH, Leia’s pretty much just a supporting character, and gets far less development and screentime than Luke and Han, and even Obi-Wan. Not showing her reaction seems weird in retrospect, now that Empire and Jedi have made her as important of a character as Luke, but she’s not as big of a character in ANH. Dwelling on her reaction seems sort of weird to me.
G&G-Fan said:
That’s another thing that a lot of people miss. When he says “Do not underestimate the powers of the Emperor” that obviously means he faced him before. Obviously he was witness to the Emperor’s power first hand. That actually becomes a plot hole for anyone who removes that duel from the movie, because now how else would he know the Emperor’s power? It fits into the original trilogy perfectly.I always took the line to mean that Anakin tried to beat the Emperor somehow and failed, thus becoming his thrall. How exactly would require some good writing. Instead Anakin was just dumb and fell for the most basic emotional trickery, then allowed Mace Windu die. And Yoda just knew all of Palpatine’s powers ahead of time, since he saw them from Dooku and wasn’t even surprised by them. They’re now just basic evil powers anyone can learn.
What’s even crazier is that Palpatine straight up tells him that he doesn’t actually know how to save people from death and Anakin still goes along with everything.
Like, it’s probably not so easy for him to just kinda leave Palpatine, but his entire motive for him turning to the dark side, he is literally told is a lie before he even becomes Darth Vader.
Maybe his tinnitus was acting up after so many explosions in the Clone Wars and he didn’t hear him. Still though, what a dumbass.
Reading R + L ≠ J theories
The force in the prequels is the same as in the original movies. They didn’t introduce anything new. Force lightning, telekinesis (Vader throws objects at Luke in ESB, force choking is technically telekinesis, Yoda lifting up an entire X-Wing), force speed and super high jumping (Luke did it in ESB AND ROTJ when he jumped up to avoid Vader, and Vader also did a big jump in ESB), seeing into the future, fast lightsaber dueling (sometimes Vader and Luke’s duels can actually be pretty fast in their most intense parts; the only reason they weren’t faster is because Luke is a novice force user and Vader isn’t trying to kill him, it makes a ton of sense that Jedi masters that trained for decades would be incredibly fast and powerful), it’s all there.
Just a point, but Yoda blocks Dooku’s and Palpatine’s Force lightning.
Just came back here to say that I retract what I said here in this thread. I’ve realized for awhile now that it wasn’t Lucas’ intent to have a character arc for Yoda in the prequels in which he realizes that war is wrong.
Lucas’ intent was to show that the Jedi participating in the war was hindering their values, even if they had no other choice. Yoda, like every Jedi, was put in a tough spot, in which he was forced to fight. It’s not about Yoda learning to be non-violent (he’s the same in the prequels as he is in the OT), but about the Jedi being put in a no-win situation, as elaborated in this brilliant Quora answer.
https://qr.ae/pvuA2y
As George elaborates (in this quote he’s responding to a question asking if the Jedi are like police officers).
GEORGE LUCAS: No. They’re not like cops who catch murderers. They’re warrior-monks who keep peace in the universe without resorting to violence. The Trade Federation is in dispute with Naboo, so the Jedi are ambassadors who talk both sides and convince them to resolve their differences and not go to war. If they do have to use violence, they will, but they are diplomats at the highest level. They’ve got the power to send the whole force of the Republic, which is 100 000 systems, so if you don’t behave they can bring you up in front of the Senate. They’ll cut you off at the knees, politically.
They’re like police officers. As the situation develops in the Clone Wars they are recruited into the army, and they become generals. They’re not generals. They don’t kill people. They don’t fight. They’re supposed to be ambassadors. There are a lot of Jedi that think that the Jedi sold out, that they should never have been in the military, but…
PAUL DUNCAN: Do you think that?
GEORGE LUCAS: It’s a tough call. It’s one of the conundrums of which there’s a bunch of in my movies. You have to think it through. Are they going to stick with their moral rules and all be killed, which makes it irrelevant, or do they help save the Republic? They have good intentions, but they have been manipulated which was their downfall.
I don’t agree with anything in the OP
I don’t agree with anything in the OP
Neither do I, which is why I just now retracted the statement lmao