The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released) — Page 275

jarbear said:

Not sure if Hal you care about this, but I certainly would like to remove all the “random” voices during that “Jedi chatter” scene and not specifically for canon reasons.

Fan edits do not need to follow cannon since … well, any change to a movie breaks the cannon anyway, but for the audience watching the movies and hearing a bunch of “random” voices that were not heard in the previous movies is jarring … to me at least thinking of the “average” movie watcher going from Episode 1 to 9.

(I agree with the others here about not having the other Jedi voices in that scene since … pre disneyified “canon” that only a couple of Jedi were able to do so via special training that was explicitly mentioned in Revenge of the Sith … but Disney already broke that logic/canon with Palps. Sith cannot live on prior to Disney… which is why Plagius was trying to find a way to reverse dying and live on but was cut short by Palps. Plus, George Lucus explicitly said Sith were not able to obtain it, just the Jedi via their absolute selflessness which made it ironic the Sith who wanted to live forever could never obtain it via the dark side … only the light side for the side who do not care about themselves. But we know what happened, RJ decided “Hey, Sith live on too! They just keep going to the next body” which then kills the whole narrative of Revenge of the Sith. That concludes my TED talk.)

Wait, why are you blaming Rian Johnson for that? Rian Johnson didn’t do that, lol. Rian Johnson was not involved in bringing back Palpatine, lol.

On the subject: Sith can’t persist as bodyless spirits, but they can persist if bound to objects or host bodies (and host bodies is something literally only Palpatine has ever achieved, and only through what he’d learned from Plaguis before turning on him), though it’s an extremely unpleasant ‘existence’.

Anyway, there’s a difference between reaching into the netherworld of the force and making brief contact with old friends, long gone, than a ghost manifesting in the material world, a la what Obi-Wan, Yoda, and eventually Luke and Leia learned.

Rain Johnson decided Sith live on? In the film that he didn’t write or direct? That not only rejected his outline, but also the outline and script (that rejected Johnson’s treatment) that still continued on from the film he made? He had that much influence on a film that contradicted everything he wrote?

Fascinating.

jarbear said:

omnimuffin said:

jarbear said:

Not sure if Hal you care about this, but I certainly would like to remove all the “random” voices during that “Jedi chatter” scene and not specifically for canon reasons.

Fan edits do not need to follow cannon since … well, any change to a movie breaks the cannon anyway, but for the audience watching the movies and hearing a bunch of “random” voices that were not heard in the previous movies is jarring … to me at least thinking of the “average” movie watcher going from Episode 1 to 9.

(I agree with the others here about not having the other Jedi voices in that scene since … pre disneyified “canon” that only a couple of Jedi were able to do so via special training that was explicitly mentioned in Revenge of the Sith … but Disney already broke that logic/canon with Palps. Sith cannot live on prior to Disney… which is why Plagius was trying to find a way to reverse dying and live on but was cut short by Palps. Plus, George Lucus explicitly said Sith were not able to obtain it, just the Jedi via their absolute selflessness which made it ironic the Sith who wanted to live forever could never obtain it via the dark side … only the light side for the side who do not care about themselves. But we know what happened, RJ decided “Hey, Sith live on too! They just keep going to the next body” which then kills the whole narrative of Revenge of the Sith. That concludes my TED talk.)

Wait, why are you blaming Rian Johnson for that? Rian Johnson didn’t do that, lol. Rian Johnson was not involved in bringing back Palpatine, lol.

On the subject: Sith can’t persist as bodyless spirits, but they can persist if bound to objects or host bodies (and host bodies is something literally only Palpatine has ever achieved, and only through what he’d learned from Plaguis before turning on him), though it’s an extremely unpleasant ‘existence’.

Anyway, there’s a difference between reaching into the netherworld of the force and making brief contact with old friends, long gone, than a ghost manifesting in the material world, a la what Obi-Wan, Yoda, and eventually Luke and Leia learned.

Meant jj, my bad. But still stand by my comment since jj didn’t watch previous Star Wars stuff.

The same Abrams who was such a huge Star Wars fan the whining Trek fanbois complain he’d inserted too much SW in their ST? The Same Abrams who basically cloned ANH when making TFA? The same Abrams who only took the ST gig in the first place because he thought it was as close as he’d get to directing his SW? That Abrams? And you think he’s never seen SW.

Not to mention that, as far as the films and TV series are concerned, neither the Sith or Jedi know how to live past death. Plagueis was working on it and Qui-Gon discovered it (slightly too late). The fact that Palps worked it out by the time of RotJ is no more surprising than Qui-Gon working it out after he’d already died.

Palps cheating death is not only perfectly in line with all material relating to the Force from every previous film and series, but it’s a direct copy of basically every post RotJ EU comic or book for decades before Lucas sold SW. (I’m not saying I like it, it kinda breaks the whole ‘chosen one’ prophecy, but hey, missread it may have been and all that).

Oh, and it is absolutely impossible to ‘break canon’. A canon is nothing more than a group of works under a common banner that need to have nothing in common other than the IP owners have grouped them together. What you’re trying to say is it breaks continuity, a completely separate concept (and also incorrect, continuity is fully maintained).

Darth Muffy said:

What I took out of RoS which I really liked the idea of was how it explained Palpatines “stike me down” lines both in RoS and return of the jedi. I like to think that meant that if Luke struck him down in return of the jedi with anger he would of possessed Luke the same way Rey would of been possessed if she stuck him down in RoS through the sith ritual.

I really like it too, it retcons ROTJ nicely. Instead of seeing it as Vader protecting Palpatine, I now see it as Vader protecting his son

Great thing to hear about this Hal!

Darth Muffy said:

What I took out of RoS which I really liked the idea of was how it explained Palpatines “stike me down” lines both in RoS and return of the jedi. I like to think that meant that if Luke struck him down in return of the jedi with anger he would of possessed Luke the same way Rey would of been possessed if she stuck him down in RoS through the sith ritual.
I interpreted the line “I am all sith” as meaning the past sith which had been possessed in this… unnatural way.

I’m sure theres some overlapping story issues via novels\comic\sticker album somewhere that destroys all that but I personally enjoy this idea of the events.

I completely agree, and I think that was the intent.

DZ-330 said:

Hal 9000 said:

But then why does Palpatine seem to gloat as he describes Darth Plagueis not being able to save himself from being killed? Shouldn’t he just be Plagueis?

Maybe because Palps killed him in his sleep and the person being killed needs to consciously transfer their spirit to a new host?

Wow I never considered this. Makes a lot of sense. I believe he may have also been drunk?

NeverarGreat said:

The reason is that this wasn’t how Sith worked back then. This is perhaps the single good thing TROS did in making the Sith spirit canon, and I’d gladly take a retcon that improved the OT even if it makes the PT a little more silly.

I don’t think I understand this- by Sith spirit do you mean the idea that literally every spirit had transferred down the line and they were “all the Sith” inside Palpatine that he mentioned? I thought the general assumption was this wasn’t literal

DZ-330 said:

Hal 9000 said:

But then why does Palpatine seem to gloat as he describes Darth Plagueis not being able to save himself from being killed? Shouldn’t he just be Plagueis?

Maybe because Palps killed him in his sleep and the person being killed needs to consciously transfer their spirit to a new host?

Well that confuses it a bit more- if the original point is the case, would all the Sith have built up in Plagueis only for Palpatine to not take them?

I simply saw it as Palpatine saying all of the Sith had figuratively led up to him, but he was just trying to use the transfer-power with Luke and then Rey (or Kylo) to get into a younger, healthier body.

Also this is off-topic but is there a list of changes from each workprint to the next? I have 3, 4, and 5 downloaded but I don’t what the difference between each one is.

NeverarGreat said:

Brewzter said:

NeverarGreat said:

The reason is that this wasn’t how Sith worked back then. This is perhaps the single good thing TROS did in making the Sith spirit canon, and I’d gladly take a retcon that improved the OT even if it makes the PT a little more silly.

I don’t think I understand this- by Sith spirit do you mean the idea that literally every spirit had transferred down the line and they were “all the Sith” inside Palpatine that he mentioned? I thought the general assumption was this wasn’t literal

DZ-330 said:

Hal 9000 said:

But then why does Palpatine seem to gloat as he describes Darth Plagueis not being able to save himself from being killed? Shouldn’t he just be Plagueis?

Maybe because Palps killed him in his sleep and the person being killed needs to consciously transfer their spirit to a new host?

Well that confuses it a bit more- if the original point is the case, would all the Sith have built up in Plagueis only for Palpatine to not take them?

I simply saw it as Palpatine saying all of the Sith had figuratively led up to him, but he was just trying to use the transfer-power with Luke and then Rey (or Kylo) to get into a younger, healthier body.

I assumed that Palps meant that the spirits of all the Sith literally resided within him, otherwise he would have some new power that previous Sith did not have when he tried to transfer his consciousness to a new body. It would be weird to say that he was the first Sith to figure this out when this theory of spirit succession fits so well into the otherwise bizarre practice of the Rule of Two.

I think that makes some sense in the context of the movie, but not in full. The Sith are built on selfishness and the idea of living your entire life to continue building power for a future Sith contradicts that.

I thought the point of the Rule of Two was that Bane’s goal was for the cycle to eventually create the perfect Sith who would destroy the Jedi- Palpatine thought he was this perfect Sith and did almost succeed in destroying the Jedi.

Honestly now that I think about it, the Rule of Two makes no sense in the context of what the Sith believe