STAR WARS: EP VI -RETURN OF THE JEDI "REVISITED EDITION"ADYWAN - ** PRODUCTION HAS NOW RESTARTED ** — Page 28

Do we even need to know lando is there before he unmasks himself on the sail barge?

So (with the understanding now that this will be an edit of ROTJ) I don’t understand the point behind the suggestions to edit Leia, Lando & Chewie scenes in Jabba’s palace or what is wrong with any of it in the first place?

• I never knew it was Leia till she unmasked after unfreezing Han.

• The plan to infiltrate Leia into the palace by disguise as a bounty hunter with modified voice speaking in an alien language and all, to then hand in Chewie for the reward as a contingency plan against C3-PO and R2s message plan not working seemed well enough thought out and logical with them feeling pretty certain the initial message plan would fail by offering the droids as “gifts” to also infiltrate them as such into the palace along with Chewie which is essentially what they do though he has to spend some time waiting in a cell initially.

• Lando dipping his face guard to let you know it’s him has never bothered me and adds that little bit of extra info to the audience who can start to glean a larger plan coming together and is actually pretty cool how they gradually lay it all out and piece together the rescue mission. Sure there was a lot of measured risk involved but it is Star Wars we’re talking about 😉

• Putting Han in the same cell as Chewie never threw up any obvious issues to me. Maybe all the other cells are already full or as someone else alluded to, maybe the other occupants (based of what we see in other cells as we are walked by with C3-PO) would simply kill Han, robbing Jabba of publically executing him. In any event, I don’t think just because they know each other and are the elusive smuggler duo automatically means the guards should think they might be able to then escape? Really don’t understand the issue here, it was always just a nice little reunion scene between Han and Chewie which I would very much miss if it was removed.

Maybe I’m missing something obvious? But I don’t see any of the problems with the rescue mission that you all seem to. There are definitely some parts in the movie that could use some tweaking and improvement but I wouldn’t have thought this area was one of them.

.Val

Another matter I wanted to comment on that I always see a few posts about and that is the shield generator “back door”. People seem to think it a literal back door directly into the generator complex where I always saw it as the obviously (to me) implied secret rear entrance / exit that connects to the main generator complex via somewhat of a lengthy corridor / tunnel. When you see the entrance from outside you can’t see the generator itself so therefore I am already imagining that it is some distance away from the entrance itself. Furthermore once inside where they place the explosives you get to see and glimpse some of the actual generator structure which looks like it stretches away for quite some distance and you get the feeling of quite a large structure which doesn’t feel like it could coexist directly inside the entrance when seen from outside.

So due to this I don’t see any of the issues people raise about it such as why didn’t Han get incinerated - because by the time it blows, he’s run all the way back trough the tunnel and outside. You see part of the explosion still exit the tunnel but it’s more of a distant fire flash finding its way out through a distant exit while the shield generator is then shown to completely go up in a massive fireball which if Han and Co had been right beside it, would have been killed for sure so therefore logic and what I’d already subconsciously imagined earlier on as to the entrance location to the generator itself places them at a much farther and safer distance from the main generator.

.Val

NeverarGreat said:

Chewie’s introduction in the cell is one of the few changes I’d really like to see in even a ‘soft’ fanedit like this. It’s basically a plot hole that Chewie isn’t captured, since 3PO says ‘Lando Calrissian and poor Chewbacca never returned from this awful place’.

See this never bothered me and I don’t see it as a plot hole because I assumed the gang kept C3-PO in the dark about the full rescue plan because he’s a blabber mouth and couldn’t be trusted once fallen into Jabba’s hands to not give away this information. So from his perspective, he only knows that Landa and Chewie went to the palace for some reason and never returned. This is apparently quite different from the fact that Lando isn’t captured but infiltrated and therefore was never going to return before the rescue plan was carried out and Chewie was taken in as a pretend hostage, both facts C3-PO is unaware of which makes me think he’s completely unaware of the plan and his part in it.

Whereas you get the feeling that the far clueir R2 is in on it, especially seeing how he has Luke’s lightsaber onboard for say “contingency plan C” when Luke bargaining in person also predictably failed. Though I’m sure he certainly didn’t expect to find himself locked in a Rancor pit as part of the plan 😉

.Val

The logics of it never bothered me. It’s just that the scene where Leia turns chewie in is just so awful I don’t want to see it. From the awful muppet close-ups, to the cheesy jumpscare (for the characters not the audience) music cue reaction shots. It’s just awful and ruins any remain the movie had up to them established.

NeverarGreat said:

Every issue with the rescue plan could be explained away (as indeed you do), it’s just that it takes quite a bit of thinking to even parse it out. This change fixes the contradictory information from 3PO, shortens the Jabba sequence by 2.5 minutes, and strengthens Leia’s cover story while involving Boba Fett in the plot.

Again, I respectfully disagree. These matters never stood out when watching the movie as I guess my imagination did a pretty quick job of filling in any subconscious blanks in the story’s logic which had it not, it would have grabbed my attention and drawn me out of the movie to focus on the then noticeable inconsistency or plot hole. The explanations I provide above only get a bit lengthy in actually trying to draw them out of more of an impression that fills that gap and put them into written form in how it all makes perfect sense to me when watching the movie. What I wrote above is not what I am literally thinking when watching the movie but what I get when I sit back and critically think about how to explain what the movie has implanted in my brain in telling the unseen story through actual scenes and plot inferences when faced with the issues you and other raise with these scenes. I don’t believe C3-POs line is in any shape or form a plot hole and if it was, surely this would be dead set obvious one to the actual film makers at the time and rectified rather than leaving it in if the intent was not instead to simply infer that he has no clue whatsoever as to the actual plan? The later seems by far the simpler and more logical explanation in this case (as I’m not immune in the slightest to actual plot holes that deserve mentioning).

On the other matters:

• Why is shortening the Jabba sequence a good thing?
• How does it strengthen Leia’s cover story? From my perspective, removing C3-POs line only removes the inference that he’s been kept out of the loop for confidentially reasons that the mission depends on.
• What is the reasoning for involving Fett in the plot? Seems contradictory to include the bounty hunter that put Han there in the first place and until the PT, wasn’t that a character that we actually saw a real lot of or knew that much about if only taking into account the information gleaned from simply watching the movies?

Btw if this discussion should go elsewhere, let me know. Though it feels correct to be discussing such potential changes for revisited in this thread? I know the other revisited threads didn’t get to well over 1000 pages by keeping all in depth discussion in alternate threads 😉

.Val

I’ll admit that I’m a little new here, but can someone please explain the etiquette of this specific thread? Everyone seems to be afraid of discussing an idea in any sort of depth here and people keep suggesting to take the discussion to a more generic ROTJ thread.

So… what? Do we all just abandon this thread and let Ady provide updates when he’s ready? I get not talking about ESB or ANH changes in here, but what’s the definition of what’s “appropriate Revisited talk” in here?

I totally agree about the narrative mess that is ROTJ first act (a fun mess but a mess nonetheless). There isn’t much to do about that, but I guess that removing 3PO’s line about Chewie never returning from there would at least diminish the charming silliness of the rescue plan.

nightstalkerpoet said:

I’d like to suggest completely removing the Leia and Wicket scene.

doubleofive said:

I’m all for cutting the Force Choke.

ChainsawAsh said:
cutting the Obi-Wan conversation

Possessed said:
I used to think you should cut all familiar characters from the briefing scene since they mostly just bring cheese, and maybe we still should.
regularjoe said:

Cut that. Cut it cut it cut it - do it. Now.

Cut this scene
NOW

Val, again my taste tallies with yours - ever since seeing the longer cut of The Abyss I’ve preferred and sought out movies ‘extended edition’. However Original Trilogy is a fan edit site born from the prequels. The natural inclination of most of the guys here is to cut. It becomes that the movie is almost a puzzle, or a technical exercise what lines / scenes can be cut whilst preserving logic. There are dozens of variations on the prequels that use this approach, sometimes cutting so drastically that all 3 films are reduced just down to 1.

For me, I’d hate to see the Boussh scene cut or the Leia meets Wicket scene cut or the Ben force ghost. All of these have some value in them and some meaning to me. I would rather see more of the story rather than less, and I would miss them if they were gone. If the quality was high enough it would be great to have all the deleted scenes restored.

Jedi Rocks however… well you got me there!

I am curious to what extent ady means when he calls this a fan edit.

With ESBR and ANHR (Purist) you had basically the same films, edit-wise (besides small, almost unnoticeable adjustments), with the idea being a sort of special special edition, meaning mostly visual fixes. I wonder if the special special edition changes to ROTJ inherently change the edit in larger ways (i.e. alternate Boba death, additional and/or different pilots and fighters, additional and/or different battle scenes on Endor, etc.). Basically I’m curious if there’s really much of any editing planned beyond what is necessary to implement the new elements and maintain a good pace.

I’ll take it either way, of course.

NeverarGreat said:

Suggesting ideas is fine, far as I know. But I figure that after a fair amount of discussion, ideas should go to the more general thread since Ady has probably made up his mind one way or another and it’s less posts to sift through later on.

Well said
See you in the other thread

😛

.Val

Hey Matt.F, just remembered I needed to respond to your first reply on the previous page. So here’s a double reply 😛

Matt.F said:

Valheru_84, I am of similar opinion to yourself. “What the special edition should have been” is a great description for SW and ESB Revisited and I hope it will also apply to ROTJ Revisited.

Whilst Adywan has mentioned that there will be more editorial changes in this film than the previous two I look at what he’s specifically mentioned in his change list on the first post and these all seem very much in keeping with the previous two Revisited films.

Reading through this thread there are many people who want to push and petition him to make more major changes, rearrangements and even introduce new subplots (several pages were spent trying to persuade him that introducing a ‘Boba secret plan to kidnap Luke’ subplot was somehow worthwhile).

I think Adywan is now ‘two for two’ and has earned a degree of trust. His instincts on what to change and what to leave well alone seem to be sound. As Lucas discovered, these are beloved films and one clunky misjudged change can ruin the whole film for the audience, but I trust Adywan not to make any Greedo Shoots First type mistakes and go off the deep end.

A great, level headed post and I agree with everything you say and have that same trust in Ady after ANH and TESB. It was more my initial shock talking in those previous posts, thank you for helping remind me of these facts.

Matt.F said:

Val, again my taste tallies with yours - ever since seeing the longer cut of The Abyss I’ve preferred and sought out movies ‘extended edition’. However Original Trilogy is a fan edit site born from the prequels. The natural inclination of most of the guys here is to cut. It becomes that the movie is almost a puzzle, or a technical exercise what lines / scenes can be cut whilst preserving logic. There are dozens of variations on the prequels that use this approach, sometimes cutting so drastically that all 3 films are reduced just down to 1.

For me, I’d hate to see the Boussh scene cut or the Leia meets Wicket scene cut or the Ben force ghost. All of these have some value in them and some meaning to me. I would rather see more of the story rather than less, and I would miss them if they were gone. If the quality was high enough it would be great to have all the deleted scenes restored.

Jedi Rocks however… well you got me there!

Yeah what you say makes a lot of sense again. I do like extended movies but I also like fan edits that have been trimmed if it was necessary and properly makes the film better for it. In the case of the PTs, that’s a LARGE whack of each movie unfortunately which is why it’s often so hard for edits to make them anything more than watchable to somewhat enjoyable at times but they can never be great due to the limited source material to work with in the first place.

On the other hand - I, like you (probably), see value or hold nostalgic value in nearly all ROTJ scenes so it will be quite hard for me to actually see scenes cut from it. The movie could be made a little darker like TESB until the Empire is actually defeated at which point it should them become lighter in mood as everyone celebrates but if I was to look at the movie with an editor’s scalpel, I have no idea what I’d actually trim apart from maybe a few seconds here and there of sheer Ewok silliness as well as Chewie’s tarzan yell (was that even in the theatrical version or another facepalming GL change? Can’t remember myself).

When I say that though, it’s from the perspective of the OUT / Harmy’s DSEs. If we’re talking about the actual SEs then I could find a long list of things to cut / change back to original, such as the abomination that Jedi Rocks is and the new alien animations…that was a serious WTF moment for me where I truly wondered if GL had lost his mind…

.Val