STAR WARS: EP VI -RETURN OF THE JEDI "REVISITED EDITION"ADYWAN - ** PRODUCTION HAS NOW RESTARTED ** — Page 24

Reworking the original crawl can fix the reordering of the Tatooine and Dagobah scenes. A new crawl entirely isn’t really needed.

STAR
WARS

EPISODE VI
RETURN OF THE JEDI

Luke Skywalker has returned to
the planet of Dagobah to continue
his training as a Jedi Knight.
Meanwhile, his friends have located
Han Solo at the lair of the vile
gangster Jabba the Hutt.

Little do they know that the
GALACTIC EMPIRE has secretly
been building a new armored
space station even more powerful
than the first dreaded Death Star.

When completed, this ultimate
weapon will spell certain doom
for the small band of rebels
struggling to restore freedom
to the galaxy…

ChainsawAsh said:

I get that, but from the tone of the conversation (Luke’s inflection and Yoda’s sigh), I have no problem interpreting that as Luke having asked the question before and Yoda having avoided answering it.

That’s a fair interpretation. I can almost get behind that, except, I just wouldn’t want to think of Yoda as being a complete ass about the topic (any more than he has been for hiding the truth to begin with). It’s obvious to him that Luke already “knows it to be true”, so with the Loth-cat clearly out of the bag, why drag it out any further?

Just for fun, though, I’m imagining the chat between them could’ve gone:
Luke: "No, Master Yoda, I will not levitate a single pebble until you tell me the truth. I must know."
Yoda: "Drop the subject, or back in the drink your ship will be.
😃

nhoj3 said:
While his friends have scoured the galaxy for Han Solo, Luke Skywalker has evaded Darth Vader’s relentless pursuit by continuing his Jedi training on the secret planet of Dagobah.

With Han finally discovered in the lair of the vile gangster Jabba the Hutt, Luke has left his training once again to join his friends in a daring rescue attempt.

Little do they know that the GALACTIC EMPIRE has secretly been constructing a new armored space station even more powerful than the first dreaded Death Star…

Which leads into the opening of the movie as we know it. It’s not perfect but it does address a few issues:

1. Luke’s training DID continue after ESB and his powers have justifiably improved
2. It better explains why the rescue team didn’t go in as a single team
3. It ties in nicely with ESB and ROTJ dialogue of Vader’s search for Luke
4. Replacing the word “begun” with “been” suggests that DS2 construction has been going on for longer, better justifying it’s advanced progress.
5. It allows for Luke to separate and rejoin the fleet as depicted in the original cut

Granted it begs a few questions. Why did Luke wait to ask “the big question”. Still I think it would work, as Mark Hamill’s delivery of “IS Darth Vader my father?” sounds like a question that has been asked many times before. Some of Yoda’s response may have to be trimmed to make it work, but I really think that it’s worth considering.

I like it. In fact, I may have to concede it makes more sense than my “restructuring” idea.
About “the question”, I think the script hints that Yoda has been dodging the question, which to me can be used as evidence that Luke had tried to get an answer out of him before.

Yoda: One thing remains… Vader. You must confront Vader. Then, only then, a Jedi will you be. And confront him you will.
Luke: Master Yoda…is Darth Vader my father?
Yoda: Rest I need. Yes. Rest.
Luke: Yoda, I must know.
Yoda: (reluctantly) Your father he is.

Jani-wan said:

ray_afraid said:

Jani-wan said:

YodaFan67 said:

I only have one suggestion for this, but I think it improves the film greatly:
Start the film with Luke on Dagobah
It just makes so much more sense

Do you have friends?
How long would you let them hangin on a wall? Weeks? Month? If they survive that long at all.

Luke’s waiting to hear from Lando before he does anything. This is set up at the end of ESB.
In the meantime, nothing’s stopping him from going back to Yoda and it makes more sense that he would.
You can click the link in my sig for my ideal opining to ROTJ.

Oh, come on.
How long does it take to find Jabba?
How long does it take to sell him some spice at an unreasonably low price, and offer him more, where this came from?
How long does it take to see that Han is hanging on the wall?
How long does it take to make a “phone call”?
Actually I don’t think Luke has even time to recover properly.

The movie disagrees with you. But that’s ok.

YodaFan67 said:

nhoj3 said:
While his friends have scoured the galaxy for Han Solo, Luke Skywalker has evaded Darth Vader’s relentless pursuit by continuing his Jedi training on the secret planet of Dagobah.

With Han finally discovered in the lair of the vile gangster Jabba the Hutt, Luke has left his training once again to join his friends in a daring rescue attempt.

Little do they know that the GALACTIC EMPIRE has secretly been constructing a new armored space station even more powerful than the first dreaded Death Star…

Which leads into the opening of the movie as we know it. It’s not perfect but it does address a few issues:

1. Luke’s training DID continue after ESB and his powers have justifiably improved
2. It better explains why the rescue team didn’t go in as a single team
3. It ties in nicely with ESB and ROTJ dialogue of Vader’s search for Luke
4. Replacing the word “begun” with “been” suggests that DS2 construction has been going on for longer, better justifying it’s advanced progress.
5. It allows for Luke to separate and rejoin the fleet as depicted in the original cut

Granted it begs a few questions. Why did Luke wait to ask “the big question”. Still I think it would work, as Mark Hamill’s delivery of “IS Darth Vader my father?” sounds like a question that has been asked many times before. Some of Yoda’s response may have to be trimmed to make it work, but I really think that it’s worth considering.

I like it. In fact, I may have to concede it makes more sense than my “restructuring” idea.
About “the question”, I think the script hints that Yoda has been dodging the question, which to me can be used as evidence that Luke had tried to get an answer out of him before.

Yoda: One thing remains… Vader. You must confront Vader. Then, only then, a Jedi will you be. And confront him you will.
Luke: Master Yoda…is Darth Vader my father?
Yoda: Rest I need. Yes. Rest.
Luke: Yoda, I must know.
Yoda: (reluctantly) Your father he is.

It does lend to itself that Yoda has been dodging the question over some time … not until he was about to die he finally would admit it.

Luke: Yoda, is Darth Vader my father?!

Yoda: After more training, tell you I will

…

Luke: Ok, is he my father?!

Yoda: A nap, I take first.

…

Luke: Now will you tell me?

Yoda: Into the cave you must go, answers you will find.

… and so on.

[operator dead. post abandoned]

Jani-wan said:

DZ-330 said:

Reworking the first paragraph of the original crawl can fix the reordering of the Tatooine and Dagobah scenes.

STAR
WARS

EPISODE VI
RETURN OF THE JEDI

Luke Skywalker has returned to
the planet of Dagobah to continue
his training as a Jedi Knight.
Meanwhile, his friends have located
Han Solo at the lair of the vile
gangster Jabba the Hutt. But he
left his friend hanging on the
wall for six month…

Meanwhile Darth Vader went to
Tatooine to set a trap for Luke
knowing that he will show up
to save his friend. Vader
waited five month but Luke
never showed up leaving his
friend hanging on the wall

Vader finally left to report
to the Emperor, who sent him
to speed up to construction
of the new armored space station
more powerful, then the first
Death Star … when Luke
finally showed up.

Fixed it 😉

Let’s set ROTJ a month or so after ESB with the reordering, the crawl could still work. Lando and Chewie found Han within a week or two and Lando applies and gets a job at Jabba’s to have an inside-man. Luke got word of Lando’s plan and went back to Dagobah to confront Yoda and Ben about Vader being his father on his way to Tatooine, he needs to know for sure. Leia gets restless waiting for Luke to get there and decides to go in with Chewie and get Han out herself. Luke senses this and leaves for Tatooine right away. The movie then continues as originally scripted.

^ Wisdom.

So, hypothetically speaking, if adywan were to move the Luke/Yoda scene to the beginning of the movie (and consequently the Obi-Wan scene also, since those two scenes are a linked package), aren’t you guys concerned about the pacing of the 1st act? It would really drag on then. That’s why these kinds of slower, talking scenes are intended for the 2nd act, not the 1st.

Also, where would Luke go after they all leave Tatooine? If he follows Han and co. to the Rebel fleet, can adywan convincingly edit it so he is actually with them during the briefing (and no longer shows up after the briefing is over)? I can’t see it. Or, if he still shows up at the end of it, where was he before that he couldn’t make it on time for the important briefing?

Again, I do think it would’ve made sense that he’d go back to Yoda for more training immediately after ESB, but given the footage there is to work with, I feel it cannot be done in a seamless way; not without re-shoots, which is of course out of the question.

I’m open-minded to any change in ROTJ if it makes sense, improves it, and can be accomplished (as I hope others are too), and so if this is somehow possible, I haven’t read/seen anything that sways me; I only see that it would unnecessarily cause more technical issues.

nhoj3 said:

Luke returning to Yoda to continue his training and admitting that he was wrong to run off half-cocked shows maturity and character growth. That makes “sense” from a storytelling perspective.

I like that and completely agree. And that’s what Luke tries to do, too, after he finishes rescuing Han.

nhoj3 said:

Let me start by saying that clearly no single approach is going to satisfy everyone.

Having said that, I feel that you’re being overly confident in an argument that doesn’t stand up to its own measures. You talk of “sense” but how does it make any “sense” if only 2 weeks have passed in the story when the actors (particularly Mark Hamill) have clearly aged years? In this regard a longer passage of time makes more “sense”.

Maybe some people would believe that it makes more sense that:

• It might take some time to find a single object in a rather large galaxy.

At the end of ESB they agreed to meet at a rendezvous point on Tatooine. They knew where Han was.

nhoj3 said:

My previous post proposing a revised crawl abandoned the idea of front loading the Dagobah scenes. Check it out and let me know what you think!

I did read it and thought that was actually a damn good, well-worded crawl 😃 Far better than what I came up with while I brainstormed this concept long ago. I also felt this was the best possible way to have it so Luke meets with Yoda again before ROTJ, to have it worded as such in the crawl (which can then keep the proposed scenes in their original places), but, just as you admit: Why did Luke wait to ask “the big question”… that’s the exact question that held me back from going along with it completely. It makes no sense to me that Luke wouldn’t be asking that pressing question while he is being trained again. Or, as already discussed earlier, some people here can interpret it that he did already ask and Yoda kept refusing to answer until the time of his death bed - I just cannot find a way to buy that logic either. Yoda, at this point, is now fully aware that Luke was told and has zero reason to continue holding back the truth from him. While it was absolutely a worthwhile idea to consider, those are my reasons why I abandoned that.

I’m curious, nhoj3, did you catch my previous post that explains an alternate idea for how Luke could have learned what he knows, from discovering journals at Ben’s hut? What are your honest thoughts on that? For that matter, have you read my ROTJ wishlist (linked in my sig)? You strike me as somebody who would enjoy a big read 😄 And so you know where I’m coming from concerning ROTJ, if you didn’t already.

Edit:

ChainsawAsh said:

The ordering of scenes I proposed, in my opinion, won’t completely kill the pacing, especially if you remove - or dramatically shorten - the Obi-Wan scene. I think it also helps to streamline the convoluted rescue attempt plot. It would be a slightly slower opening for a SW movie, but I think it might work. I’m considering doing a quick and dirty edit using that structure myself just to see how it works pacing-wise.

You’d for sure have to include the bit about Luke realizing who exactly Leia is, though, otherwise it would be way out from left field when he reveals this news to her. How could he have figured it out by himself? If you do put this together, I’d be curious to check out what you had in mind if you want to share it 😃