Info & Ideas: ESB and ROTJ Wishlist — Page 346

Darth Lucas said:

ray_afraid said:

Bingowings said:

23. Leia remembers Padme…but how? One easy fix could be that when she refers to “images” she produces a locket with a picture of her mother and gives it Luke, something regal that Bail Organa may have given her when she was a little girl.

I really like this.
I’m usually against putting ANYTHING from the PT into the OT, but this really works without you having to have even seen the PT. You’ll know who the lady is via the current conversation.
I think Mark and Carrie look down enough times in the scene to make the locket inserts work.

Just spitballing here but maybe instead of a locket it could be the necklace thing anakin gave padme?

In the long form of this quote I also suggest this.

It might be an idea that when the shield is shown to be still up and the Rebels are being hammered by the Imperial fleet and the Death Star weapon a small group of fighters try to bombard the shield dish from space with no effect because of the reach of the shield.

That would underline how important it is for the ground attack to work and tie the two battles together.

Whatever your feelings about ROTJ the performances of key actors are not up to the same quality as the earlier two films. Obviously it’s impossible for a fan editor to go back in time and direct new scenes with … You know who… And ahahham fnmm but what I suggest is we have strong hard look at the scenes with those characters in from the early films and see if there are aspects like inflection or voice pitch that can be altered. Some shots like the doors to the Hoth base closing work with slow camera movements and less dialogue. Can these sorts of camera moves be simulated by reframing the character in full HD to be smaller in frame and zoom into picture elements knowing that the final outcome may be in 720p? Cutting individual words adding silence or natural human emotive sounds (sighs, tutting, intakes of breath etc) might as nuance to some very flat performances. I suggest an audit of the greatness of the first two films from a character performance perspective.Looking at acting, dialogue delivery, camera work and lighting. The goal being to get the best out of what we can use.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qJD19I5DK0

I always thought this worked well.

Oh it does.
I could watch the whole film like that and I like Dune much more than I like ROTJ.

Bingowings said:

Darth Lucas said:

ray_afraid said:

Bingowings said:

23. Leia remembers Padme…but how? One easy fix could be that when she refers to “images” she produces a locket with a picture of her mother and gives it Luke, something regal that Bail Organa may have given her when she was a little girl.

I really like this.
I’m usually against putting ANYTHING from the PT into the OT, but this really works without you having to have even seen the PT. You’ll know who the lady is via the current conversation.
I think Mark and Carrie look down enough times in the scene to make the locket inserts work.

Just spitballing here but maybe instead of a locket it could be the necklace thing anakin gave padme?

In the long form of this quote I also suggest this.

Something I’m considering doing in my edit (if I ever get to it) is removing the line from Leah about remembering anything altogether.

“Do you remember your mother? Your real mother?”
“Why are you asking me this?”
“I have no memory of My mother… I never knew her.”

It also makes Luke seem more distant and distraught.

And with the slowness of the scene there is plenty of space and time for it to still seem natural. My only concern is having the word ‘mother’ said three times so close together might come off a bit odd… But would that be noticeable If I wasn’t looking for it?

Yes but in a very light easy small way. If you don’t care about the prequels then I still don’t think the absence of those couple lines will significantly impact the film.

So I joined this board a while ago. I’ve skimmed this thread (there’s a lot, after all), and intend to continue reading through it in more thorough detail, but I wanted to throw a couple things out regarding ESB and ROTJ, based on everything I’ve absorbed over the years, based on my storytelling instinct, based on continuity… I admit I am feeble in edit-y, Photoshop-y skills, but have spent much of my life honing my sense of what Mark Twain called “good stories, well told”. I’ve spent many years working on my writing, in learning how to recognize what works and what doesn’t, of believing that internal consistency is not a dirty phrase, and that relatable verisimilitude is a perfectly legitimate scaffold to build a fictional universe on (id est, I can at least theoretically explain how everything seen in Star Wars works except tractor beams and artificial gravity, and that’s because we’re still figuring out what the heck gravity even is, let alone how to manipulate it).

I have also spent most of my life absorbing the behind-the-scenes evolution of Star Wars. The scripts, the cut scenes, the indications of intent (regardless of how often George might have changed his mind later on…), the interviews, and so on. So bear that in mind as where I’m coming from here.

First of all is a macro-wish that the entire saga be renumbered. The Prequels definitely need to be rewritten and uncollapsed back out into six films focused on Obi-Wan, with Anakin as a strong supporting character (as George originally intended), Rogue One so perfectly embodies the Saturday-morning-serial model George was emulating that it deserves an opening crawl and episode number (as well as minor rewrites/tweaks)… And then we get to the Original Trilogy – which was also supposed to be six films. Per George’s original notes and his earliest interviews, the saga was to be twelve movies. The first arc was “From the Adventures of Obi-Wan Kenobi”, and the second was “From the Adventures of Luke Skywalker”. He decided to start with Luke’s arc for story purposes and – since he figured this was his one shot – he took the big megaweapon from the end of the arc and moved it up to that one episode he thought he’d get to do.

So we already have a problem when we get to ROTJ of him uncreatively keeping the same story element… and just making it bigger. But there’s the larger problem that ROTJ was the final four Luke films compressed into an overbusy lump. Luke’s sister was originally going to be a new character, introduced after ESB. But with the foreshortening of the story, a quick bodge was made to have it be Leia instead – creating problems, but oh well. I like Rogue One as the first Luke episode, incorporating the cut Anchorhead reunion with Biggs. I like the scene and what it adds to the larger story, but it doesn’t fit, timeline-wise. There’s not enough time for Biggs to report to his ship, desert, hook up with the Rebellion, prove his loyalty, and get in a position to be able to vouch for Luke in the time available if it takes place as originally scripted. And with Rogue One as Episode VI, that leaves three films to expand ROTJ back out into.

First one is a rejiggered first act – the rescue of Han Solo from Jabba the Hutt. It ends with them getting back to their ships (sandstorm scene intact) and finding a message from the Alliance that they’ve just discovered the Empire’s building a new superweapon and get back on the double.

Second one is Han actually having a point post-thaw. He works with Alliance Intel and uses his old underworld contacts to try to learn what and where. This is the one where many Bothans die. Ends with the stolen shuttle heading off to infiltrate the shield generator.

Third one is the infiltration, space battle, and Luke’s confrontation with the Emperor. I have a lot more to say about this one, but not now. I can get into more details on all of these if folks are actually interested in my rewrites.

I like a lot of what I’ve read in my skimming of this thread. I like the metal “bones” in Vader’s stump. I like the re-editing suggestions and color tweaks. I like more ominous presence of Palpatine’s guards (guess what my favorite costume is). I am glad to see I’m not the only one disappointed by the ROTS prune-face. I also preferred the explanation that the Emperor looked like that in ESB and ROTJ due to the long-term corrupting influence of the Dark Side. If that was just force lightning backblast, and he otherwise would have looked normal, then what’s the downside of the Dark Side? I saw all the back-and-forth about the eyes. I personally like the Eyes of the Sith, but more as a thing that happens over time as one gives oneself fully to the Dark Side. My suggestion for ROTJ Palpy is to take a cue from the original ESB Emperor – use chimpanzee eyes as a starting point. Wide, dark ring around the iris fading to bloodshot sclera. And make the iris a bit more fluorescent/baleful, rather than the warm gold of unaltered chimp eyes.

I also like the retouched Sebastian Shaw for the Ghost Anakin. I agree – he was back to being Anakin again at the end, so that would be his initial residual self-image. I further have no problem with Anakin and Obi-Wan “de-aging” as Luke continues to converse with them in the post era. While I like the alteration to Anakin having his Prequel robes… I have a problem with the tan-and-brown being Jedi robes at all. Obi-Wan was wearing what everyone else on Tatooine was wearing. Be silly if one was in hiding to keep wearing recognizably Jedi apparel. I much prefer what George was saying to Mark during the costume fitting sessions for ROTJ – that that was a true Jedi outfit (albeit with a longer sleeveless kimono – Mark’s was originally long, but shortened to make his stunt work easier). Since we know Luke was trying to find out as much as he could about the Jedi post-ANH, it makes sense that in presenting himself to Jabba as a Jedi, he’d wear something recognizably Jedi. If they’re a quasi-monastic order, as was heavily implicit, they’d have fairly uniform attire. So my preferred Jedi baseline is black linen placketed shirt and pants, off-black roughspun silk sleeveless kimono or sleeveless duster (like what Vader wears) or both, brown hooded robe (with no sleeves). I’ll point out also that early concept art of a solo Obi-Wan for Phantom Menace showed him dressed like that, too.

With the re-edits and such, I see each as an opportunity to fix things that slipped through the cracks, both subtle and gross. George is a great idea guy and I respect the hell out of him for all that he came up with… but he also needs at least one skilled actual writer to help him wring his ideas into consistent, coherent stories. It’s never too late. 😉

–Jonah

I know I’ve mentioned it before, maybe in this very thread, but man, I would love to see the Victory-class star destroyer in these films. The design is rooted in early sketches for the Imperial star destroyers, so it isn’t pure EU garbage. The design is similar, yet different and interesting. It makes sense for the Empire to have multiple warship designs. The Battle of Endor would be excellent with a little more variety of design with these vessels, and I’d die a happy man with them incorporated into the film.

Adding some Grey Mon Calamari to the mix would tie in with Rogue One nicely.

^Aye.

Just as summary for ROTJ. Someone will like it, some other will don’t. These are my ideas for ROTJ, maybe Adywan like or feel inspirated:

• In Jabbas palast where we see the first time Landos face behind the mask: This scene is too long. Only a short view on the face is enough. Its senseless to enter undercover the palast and show the face for many seconds.-

• The emperor said that Lukes saber looks like Anakins … but it looks like Obi-Wans.

• Vader to Luke: Obi-Wan thought as you … Padme thought as Luke

• At the end, when Luke looks to the Jedi ghosts, in the original version he did a small wink with his eyes. Thats very individual, I like this … but its missing in the SE.

• The Jedi ghosts … I don’t like Hayden Christensen as Anakin in ROTJ too. But please give Sebastian Shaw the clothes from the Hayden Christensen Anakin from ATOC/ROTS.

Deleted scences:
I agree that the deleted scenes for ANH and TESB didn’t match into the final movie. But I ROTJ its a little different

• Luke building his lightsaber: this scence have some kind of magic. Its hard to describe.

• The death star want to destory the moon of Endor. These scenes give the final attack on the deathstar more dramatic and show one more dark side of the emperor

• The bunker rush is cool action but not specially needed.

• Same to the scence where Vader want to go to the emperor.

I agree on some of those things TiiN.

I would love to see Luke building his lightsaber, but I hate the C-3PO standing outside, it looks so fake. Perhaps, Adywan can fix that, and then add the scene in.

The extended bunker scene is cool, but unnecessary, unless you’re making a extended cut of the film.

As far as the Emperor telling Luke his lightsaber is much like his father’s scene. I think everybody just disregards that. I take it as, he built it himself and forget it. It is much like Obi-wan’s saber, because the plans he found for it, were in Ben’s hut.

I think they should show Lando in disguise, but don’t have him lower his mask. This way when you see the Jabba Barge scene and you think Luke is going to die, it’s a big reveal and a surprise to the audience.

As far as the Jedi force ghosts scene, I personally prefer Sebastian Shaw (older Anakin) tnan Hayden’s ghost. However, I don’t know what is in store for The Last Jedi. I know Yoda will be in it, Ewan McGregor will be shooting in early 2019 for a 2020 release, so maybe, just maybe, he’ll shoot a scene for Episode IX, in his older make-up as Obi-wan along with Yoda, and probably Luke Skywalker. This way you have a full circle, Rey looks over to see her master, Luke, his two masters, Yoda and Ben, and Luke’s father, Anakin. This time, there would be four force ghosts, maybe five. (I’m making this all up.)

We just have to wait and see what Yoda and Luke have to say about the force ghosts thing, it might be explained, but probably not. I hope Rian gives us something about it.

Sounds dreadful, Luke is being tempted by the dark side and struggling against it. He snaps when Vader hints at corrupting Leia. Having him crush Fett to death is too out and out dark. But if someone wanted to do this it would require manipulation of existing footage and use of a body double.

ray_afraid said:

Bingowings said:

Sounds dreadful, Luke is being tempted by the dark side and struggling against it. He snaps when Vader hints at corrupting Leia. Having him crush Fett to death is too out and out dark.

How would you feel about Luke decapitating Bobba the way Jules did his daddy?
‘Cause I gotta feelin’…
😦

Not saying this should be done, but I could envision how it could be done. There’s a random shot of Luke swiping his lightsaber across the camera very quickly but you can’t see what he’s slashing at. You could insert Fett into that shot and instead of cutting back to the inside of jabbas palace like it originally did you could cut to another shot of Fett’s body crumbling to the floor. The preceding shots would also have to be manipulated to show Fett getting closer to Luke though.