Sign In

chyron8472

User Group
Trusted Members
Join date
23-Aug-2010
Last activity
19-Jan-2018
Posts
2330

Post History

Post
#1160161
Topic
How many 'Bad' Star Wars movies could you take before you check out?
Time

TV’s Frink said:

If you think Rian Johnson or Disney or Star Wars hates you or ruined your life or ruined everything that came before it (especially the OT), then you’re being ridiculous.

True.

Unless one is simply being hyperbolic, which I had assumed was the case for ExNihilo but admittedly is often not so for a great many trolls who visit here.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1160146
Topic
How many 'Bad' Star Wars movies could you take before you check out?
Time

TV’s Frink said:

ExNihilo said:

How many times can you tell me you hate me before I believe it?
Am I in an abusive relationship with Star Wars?

  1. Star Wars doesn’t hate you, that’s your subjective perception.

Yes. And perception of reality is not unimportant. One’s perception informs their feelings and decisions, which can affect actual objective events. They are not obligated to alter their perception just because you would have them do so.

  1. Please don’t use the phrase “abusive relationship” to describe something as trivial as a movie.

I’m certain that was tongue in cheek. And it’s not just a movie, it’s an experience. To relegate the experience, the entity that is Star Wars as “just a movie” is to cheapen people’s feelings or desires for it. One might as well wonder why this website even exists, given that the original Original Trilogy are “just movies.”

This post has been edited.

Post
#1159847
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

ChainsawAsh said:

SilverWook said:

One can easily buy the original broadcast version TNG episodes though.

And let’s be real, upscaled shots of the original VFX alongside new HD scans of non-effects shots would look like complete garbage.

So a 4K upscale of AOTC would look like garbage?

Post
#1159840
Topic
To Canon or Not To Canon...
Time

Warbler said:

chyron8472 said:

You also have said if a movie is canon and its novelization is canon (or vice versa), and dialogue in one is not the same as the other, then which one ought to be canon? So I want to know which one you would consider canon and why, or whether it matters to you and why not if it doesn’t.

I think someone in another thread said that those in charge said that where the book and movie differ, the movie takes precedence.

I would think the original work takes precedence. That is, the Star Wars movies trump the books; but the Harry Potter books trump the movies.

Post
#1159822
Topic
To Canon or Not To Canon...
Time

Warbler said:

I’m sure what you want me to say.

I’m not calling on you to confirm your point about TLJ. I want to know why you feel that way about it.

It’s not just TLJ. You felt that way about Star Trek. You said that you felt ST’09 overwrote Trek Prime a la BTTF, and argued that because the term “alternate timeline” was used in the film itself, the “multiple quantum realities” aspect of Trek did not apply.

I’m not saying I want to prove you wrong. I want to know why you feel that way about it.

 
You also have said if a movie is canon and its novelization is canon (or vice versa), and dialogue in one is not the same as the other, then which one ought to be canon? So I want to know which one you would consider canon and why, or whether it matters to you and why not if it doesn’t.

You seem really set on your opinion of it and I’m genuinely interested in why you feel the way you do about a specific work needing to fully explain itself, rather than accepting supplemental sources (including discussions with us) to explain an ambiguity or whatever the case. I’m not telling you that you shouldn’t; I want to know why you do or what your thought process is.

Again, I’m not calling on you to defend your views, nor am I refuting them. I want to know what it is about your thought process that draws you to the conclusions that you make, especially since you’re very adamant about those conclusions.

For example:

Warbler said:

Supplemental explanations from unofficial sources don’t excuse a plot holes or continuity errors in movies.

Why not?

unlike Star Trek books, Star Wars books are officially considered canon. So I guess explanations in them do count.

But why does official canon matter to you? Why do you care? I don’t say you shouldn’t; I ask why you do.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1159787
Topic
To Canon or Not To Canon...
Time

Star Wars is the only franchise where my head canon has replaced official releases with fan edits (ie. the Prequels). Other franchises might have fan edits, but they’re basically an alternate cut and don’t affect (for good or ill) my feelings on their respective franchise. With the Star Wars Prequels, I can not include the official versions as the actual events, but certain edits I have seen are good enough to make the stories plausible.

For everything else, I usually include everything, be it movies, shows or books. For example, with regard to Star Trek, I don’t pretend that Star Trek V: The Final Frontier didn’t happen. I just say it’s a stupid movie, never watch it, and leave it at that.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1159763
Topic
General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread
Time

Mocata said:

In ESB Despecialized the speeders on Hoth look far grainier than they did in the SE version, but how could that be? Is this just a result of recomping the effects?

I imagine film grain was added because the Blurays are the primary source for Despecialized, to overcome the Digital Noise Reduction (DNR) applied to them.

Post
#1159762
Topic
How many 'Bad' Star Wars movies could you take before you check out?
Time

jollyreaper said:

to characterize a difference of opinion as a willful obstinance is a bit much.

Probably.

My wife’s brother has an attitude of focusing a lot on the nitpicks of a film, and he complains about them a lot even if he likes it. I figure he would like more movies if he wasn’t so negative about them.

You’re probably not doing that, but his doing that colors my view when people vehemently complain about something I like or want to like.

Post
#1159761
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Mithrandir said:

DominicCobb said:

Mithrandir said:

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

darthrush said:

DominicCobb said:

darthrush said:

Collipso, I wanted to talk about the point you raised concerning the “quick, and easy path” in comparison to how the sequel trilogy handled such a topic when it came to light and dark sides of the force.

It really does present a big thematic issue for the ST, which is that Kylo Ren seems to be taking the most grueling and challenging path possible to where he gets. On the contrary it seems Rey has some pretty smooth riding. And this definitely is an issue for me. It doesn’t seem that Rey struggles much with the Dark Side unlike Luke in the OT.

But I did want to point out something I really did like about what Johnson did with the force in episode 8 and it’s how he redefined it to be more about opposing philosophizes between the light and dark rather than just a power that tempts you. Kylo simply wants to rule the galaxy as he sees fit just like Vader in ESB, and Rey feels that is not the right way to use her powers. This feels like a more realistic depiction of what the actual light and dark side would be.

I think you’re misinterpreting that Yoda quote and those characters’ journeys.

Care to elaborate more? I’m interested in all the takes on this.

First of all it must be said that we don’t know the full story behind Snoke turning Ben to the dark. But we see the power he possesses as Kylo Ren, which is far more than anything Rey does (freeze blaster bolts, people, reads their minds, etc.). If he wanted a quick and easy way besides Luke’s training regimen to unlock some crazy powers, the dark side gave him that way. Important to note too that the dark side uses pain as a fuel.

The thing is though that when Yoda said that he was referring to Luke’s situation, and though people compare Rey to Luke their journeys are actually completely different. Luke wanted to learn the force and become a Jedi like his father. To do that he had to face Vader. The quick and easy way to defeat Vader is by using anger and hate. Like almost does this, but resists. That’s the moment he truly becomes a Jedi, when he’s able to move beyond the temptation to the dark that consumed his father and cast his weapon aside.

Rey’s story is simply not analogous. The temptation to the dark for her is just not the same. She never says that she wants to become a Jedi and learn the force. The force has always been there for her (we see it in her reflexes even before she touches the saber, just like Anakin). What she desires is connection, and for someone to show her her place . It’s not about learning how to use the force, it’s about learning in what way to use it, to what end. When Luke goes into the cave, he sees his ultimate challenge, just like Rey. But for Rey, it’s not a literal physical challenge, it’s an emotional one. The quicker and easier path for her isn’t about achieving power in the force, it’s about finding someone to guide her. When Kylo offers his hand, that’s the quick and easy path. He’s saying “come with me, I can show you your place in this.” It’s right there for her, a teacher, but it’s also companionship. But instead she chooses the hard way - to say no and to forge her own path, scary as that may be.

I hope that makes sense.

I bookmarked this. Great stuff.

I’m definitely going to use it later in conversation with people I know irl.

The only thing I’d argue about DC’s analysis is that reading minds is not necessarily a dark side ability. Luke is shown to perform it on a sleeping Kylo when he “finds out” about the darkness in his mind.

First of all, I’m not 100% certain it is a dark side power (though it feels very creepy and invasive so probably), I was just saying that we see Kylo Ren has amassed great power in the force, and we assume from the dark side.

Second, that’s not really what Luke does, he sees Ben’s heart, which I imagine is a more opaque image, and then he has a vision of the future.

he seems to be doing the same movement Kylo does when he checks someone’s cell phone

I don’t know what that means.

Post
#1159759
Topic
To Canon or Not To Canon...
Time

I wanted to make this thread because of discussions about the importance of holding strictly to official canon (what the studio decides is canon), official series canon (canon across a film or TV series that only includes said films or episodes), individual film canon (overt explanations a single film gives about itself), or head canon (what you the viewer decide is canon).

Basically how you feel about including or excluding supplemental explanations or information—outside of a given movie/episode, series, or franchise—to explain how or why certain events make sense.

 
This thread was brought about because Warbler has had issues with certain scenes in TLJ and whether or not they overtly make sense in context with the rest of the franchise; and he also took issue with whether the Star Trek '09 film, by itself, effectively erased the Star Trek Prime Universe.

I’m interested in talking about the concept of canon and our positions regarding it, not arguing endlessly about specific scenes in specific films (although using specific films as examples is fine.)

This post has been edited.

Post
#1159755
Topic
How many 'Bad' Star Wars movies could you take before you check out?
Time

Spoiler tag that please. There are TLJ spoilers galore in that post.

And we’ve already discussed many of those points at length in the TLJ discussion threads about why they do actually make sense. But you don’t have to like the film, so if you don’t want to have them makes sense then you don’t have to.

Post
#1159741
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Collipso said:

chyron8472 said:

Shopping Maul said:

chyron8472 said:

Shopping Maul said:

adywan said:

Valheru_84 said:

All this Yoda calling lighting justification talk sounds to me like mental gymnastics 101. Yoda somehow via the force either creating, influencing, directing, etc. the lightning in TLJ just doesn’t sit right with me whatever the reasoning. Pre-ST force ghosts could not affect the physical world. Suddenly in the ST they can directly influence the force back in the real world.

Sorry but I don’t buy it anymore than I bought the ugly Yoda puppet. I also didn’t buy “crazy yoda” as he wasn’t crazy or unhinged in the OT, just a little eccentric and put on a crazy act to either test Luke in TESB or make himself seem harmless while checking out who this stranger was that just crash landed in his backyard.

Val

Yoda was joking around even when he was dying in ROTJ. He always had a jovial side. Something the PT completely got rid of with grumpy frowning Yoda. TLJ Yoda was the same Yoda we see in the OT.

And OT Force ghosts could interact physically with the real world, so why can’t they also use the force? Or is it just because it’s been introduced in the ST that’s the problem?

I don’t recall any physical interaction in the OT (apart from Obi Wan’s ludicrous ‘sitting on log’ scene which doesn’t really count IMO). The issue is the fact that ghost-Obi Wan made it plain he could not assist Luke in fighting Vader. This means either a) force-ghosts can’t interact or b) force-ghosts are jerks.

Maybe, as a Jedi, Ben Kenobi feels it is appropriate to let Luke face his own battles rather than directly interfering. To do so would disrupt Luke’s journey toward becoming a Jedi because it could turn Luke into a noob by relying on Ben to solve Luke’s problems.

That is, Ben could interfere, but chooses not to because it is inappropriate in order for Luke to forge his own path correctly. When Ben says “I can not interfere”, he’s referring to a moral code rather than a physical limitation.

I think there’s a nice simplicity to the idea of force-ghosts as personal guides only. Giving them discretionary physicality muddies the waters somewhat (as evidenced by this thread).

because neither Obi-Wan nor Yoda use them.

That would naturally lead one to believe that they can’t do anything, don’t you think?

Can’t tell if serious or sarcastic.

 
One might even make a comparison between Star Wars’ force-ghosts and Stargate SG-1’s ascended Ancients. The Ancients are capable of extraordinary power over the “lower planes”—but they don’t use them, and they don’t let other ascended use them, because they feel to do so disrupts the natural evolution of said lower planes and it opens the door to ascended beings being straight up worshipped.

It’s quite possible that, as a being of The Force itself, one is not only given physical power but also knowledge and understanding of the nature of the universe itself, and of time and destiny. So maybe, as force-ghosts, they understand that there is more to the universe than who currently controls that particular galaxy’s government. A bigger picture, if you will, and so they leave beings of the physical plane to work it out for themselves.

And you have no way of knowing that the force-ghosts couldn’t already foresee Vader making the decision he did before he made it, or knowing that Luke would not ultimately be killed. They have a different perspective, so there’s no way to be certain whether or not they didn’t intervene in that moment of Luke being electrocuted because they knew they didn’t need to.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1159734
Topic
How many 'Bad' Star Wars movies could you take before you check out?
Time

TV’s Frink said:

jollyreaper said:

They’d be quite happy churning out Michael Bay-style lucrative garbage until the end of time.

Lol I can’t tell if you haven’t seen any of the new Star Wars movies, or you haven’t seen any Michael Bay movies, or both.

This.

The Disney Star Wars films are not akin to Michael Bay. Michael Bay movies are not only popcorn spectacle movies, but they stretch suspension of disbelief to its breaking point and beyond.

For example, in the Transformers:Dark Side of the Moon film, Leonard Nimoy’s robot character literally gives dialogue lifted straight out of Star Trek II: Wrath of Khan (“The needs of the many…”). Plus the main character, Sam, does video-game-style base-sliding under the entire width of a car; and similarly has God Mode turned on so as to survive jumping through an unbroken skyscraper window without a scratch and being violently slung around by a steel tether attached to his wrist without injuring his shoulder whatsoever.

It’s not at all the same. Disney’s Star Wars films are not popcorn movies.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1159726
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Shopping Maul said:

chyron8472 said:

Shopping Maul said:

adywan said:

Valheru_84 said:

All this Yoda calling lighting justification talk sounds to me like mental gymnastics 101. Yoda somehow via the force either creating, influencing, directing, etc. the lightning in TLJ just doesn’t sit right with me whatever the reasoning. Pre-ST force ghosts could not affect the physical world. Suddenly in the ST they can directly influence the force back in the real world.

Sorry but I don’t buy it anymore than I bought the ugly Yoda puppet. I also didn’t buy “crazy yoda” as he wasn’t crazy or unhinged in the OT, just a little eccentric and put on a crazy act to either test Luke in TESB or make himself seem harmless while checking out who this stranger was that just crash landed in his backyard.

Val

Yoda was joking around even when he was dying in ROTJ. He always had a jovial side. Something the PT completely got rid of with grumpy frowning Yoda. TLJ Yoda was the same Yoda we see in the OT.

And OT Force ghosts could interact physically with the real world, so why can’t they also use the force? Or is it just because it’s been introduced in the ST that’s the problem?

I don’t recall any physical interaction in the OT (apart from Obi Wan’s ludicrous ‘sitting on log’ scene which doesn’t really count IMO). The issue is the fact that ghost-Obi Wan made it plain he could not assist Luke in fighting Vader. This means either a) force-ghosts can’t interact or b) force-ghosts are jerks.

Maybe, as a Jedi, Ben Kenobi feels it is appropriate to let Luke face his own battles rather than directly interfering. To do so would disrupt Luke’s journey toward becoming a Jedi because it could turn Luke into a noob by relying on Ben to solve Luke’s problems.

That is, Ben could interfere, but chooses not to because it is inappropriate in order for Luke to forge his own path correctly. When Ben says “I can not interfere”, he’s referring to a moral code rather than a physical limitation.

I think there’s a nice simplicity to the idea of force-ghosts as personal guides only. Giving them discretionary physicality muddies the waters somewhat (as evidenced by this thread).

But Ben Kenobi says to Vader “If you strike me down, I will become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.” Pigeonholing him then into someone only capable of talking would, I think, cheapen his potential power as a sentient non-corporeal being of the Force itself. Sure, he doesn’t do more than guide in the OT, but that doesn’t mean he literally can’t. The OT just leaves any further possible force-ghost powers a mystery because neither Obi-Wan nor Yoda use them.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1159725
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Mithrandir said:

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

darthrush said:

DominicCobb said:

darthrush said:

Collipso, I wanted to talk about the point you raised concerning the “quick, and easy path” in comparison to how the sequel trilogy handled such a topic when it came to light and dark sides of the force.

It really does present a big thematic issue for the ST, which is that Kylo Ren seems to be taking the most grueling and challenging path possible to where he gets. On the contrary it seems Rey has some pretty smooth riding. And this definitely is an issue for me. It doesn’t seem that Rey struggles much with the Dark Side unlike Luke in the OT.

But I did want to point out something I really did like about what Johnson did with the force in episode 8 and it’s how he redefined it to be more about opposing philosophizes between the light and dark rather than just a power that tempts you. Kylo simply wants to rule the galaxy as he sees fit just like Vader in ESB, and Rey feels that is not the right way to use her powers. This feels like a more realistic depiction of what the actual light and dark side would be.

I think you’re misinterpreting that Yoda quote and those characters’ journeys.

Care to elaborate more? I’m interested in all the takes on this.

First of all it must be said that we don’t know the full story behind Snoke turning Ben to the dark. But we see the power he possesses as Kylo Ren, which is far more than anything Rey does (freeze blaster bolts, people, reads their minds, etc.). If he wanted a quick and easy way besides Luke’s training regimen to unlock some crazy powers, the dark side gave him that way. Important to note too that the dark side uses pain as a fuel.

The thing is though that when Yoda said that he was referring to Luke’s situation, and though people compare Rey to Luke their journeys are actually completely different. Luke wanted to learn the force and become a Jedi like his father. To do that he had to face Vader. The quick and easy way to defeat Vader is by using anger and hate. Like almost does this, but resists. That’s the moment he truly becomes a Jedi, when he’s able to move beyond the temptation to the dark that consumed his father and cast his weapon aside.

Rey’s story is simply not analogous. The temptation to the dark for her is just not the same. She never says that she wants to become a Jedi and learn the force. The force has always been there for her (we see it in her reflexes even before she touches the saber, just like Anakin). What she desires is connection, and for someone to show her her place . It’s not about learning how to use the force, it’s about learning in what way to use it, to what end. When Luke goes into the cave, he sees his ultimate challenge, just like Rey. But for Rey, it’s not a literal physical challenge, it’s an emotional one. The quicker and easier path for her isn’t about achieving power in the force, it’s about finding someone to guide her. When Kylo offers his hand, that’s the quick and easy path. He’s saying “come with me, I can show you your place in this.” It’s right there for her, a teacher, but it’s also companionship. But instead she chooses the hard way - to say no and to forge her own path, scary as that may be.

I hope that makes sense.

I bookmarked this. Great stuff.

I’m definitely going to use it later in conversation with people I know irl.

The only thing I’d argue about DC’s analysis is that reading minds is not necessarily a dark side ability. Luke is shown to perform it on a sleeping Kylo when he “finds out” about the darkness in his mind.

Reading someone’s mind and sensing their feelings are different abilities.

Post
#1159652
Topic
The New Thread Thread
Time

[chyron8472 said:]

I still want to know why Warb is so stickler about holding to film canon (in general) or to having a film speak only for itself.

I suggest a “To canon or not to canon” thread discussing the importance of official canon vs. headcanon; or overt explanations in a film/show vs. including supplemental information.

Post
#1159651
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Shopping Maul said:

adywan said:

Valheru_84 said:

All this Yoda calling lighting justification talk sounds to me like mental gymnastics 101. Yoda somehow via the force either creating, influencing, directing, etc. the lightning in TLJ just doesn’t sit right with me whatever the reasoning. Pre-ST force ghosts could not affect the physical world. Suddenly in the ST they can directly influence the force back in the real world.

Sorry but I don’t buy it anymore than I bought the ugly Yoda puppet. I also didn’t buy “crazy yoda” as he wasn’t crazy or unhinged in the OT, just a little eccentric and put on a crazy act to either test Luke in TESB or make himself seem harmless while checking out who this stranger was that just crash landed in his backyard.

Val

Yoda was joking around even when he was dying in ROTJ. He always had a jovial side. Something the PT completely got rid of with grumpy frowning Yoda. TLJ Yoda was the same Yoda we see in the OT.

And OT Force ghosts could interact physically with the real world, so why can’t they also use the force? Or is it just because it’s been introduced in the ST that’s the problem?

I don’t recall any physical interaction in the OT (apart from Obi Wan’s ludicrous ‘sitting on log’ scene which doesn’t really count IMO). The issue is the fact that ghost-Obi Wan made it plain he could not assist Luke in fighting Vader. This means either a) force-ghosts can’t interact or b) force-ghosts are jerks.

Maybe, as a Jedi, Ben Kenobi feels it is appropriate to let Luke face his own battles rather than directly interfering. To do so would disrupt Luke’s journey toward becoming a Jedi because it could turn Luke into a noob by relying on Ben to solve Luke’s problems.

That is, Ben could interfere, but chooses not to because it is inappropriate in order for Luke to forge his own path correctly. When Ben says “I can not interfere”, he’s referring to a moral code rather than a physical limitation.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1159649
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

DominicCobb said:

darthrush said:

DominicCobb said:

darthrush said:

Collipso, I wanted to talk about the point you raised concerning the “quick, and easy path” in comparison to how the sequel trilogy handled such a topic when it came to light and dark sides of the force.

It really does present a big thematic issue for the ST, which is that Kylo Ren seems to be taking the most grueling and challenging path possible to where he gets. On the contrary it seems Rey has some pretty smooth riding. And this definitely is an issue for me. It doesn’t seem that Rey struggles much with the Dark Side unlike Luke in the OT.

But I did want to point out something I really did like about what Johnson did with the force in episode 8 and it’s how he redefined it to be more about opposing philosophizes between the light and dark rather than just a power that tempts you. Kylo simply wants to rule the galaxy as he sees fit just like Vader in ESB, and Rey feels that is not the right way to use her powers. This feels like a more realistic depiction of what the actual light and dark side would be.

I think you’re misinterpreting that Yoda quote and those characters’ journeys.

Care to elaborate more? I’m interested in all the takes on this.

First of all it must be said that we don’t know the full story behind Snoke turning Ben to the dark. But we see the power he possesses as Kylo Ren, which is far more than anything Rey does (freeze blaster bolts, people, reads their minds, etc.). If he wanted a quick and easy way besides Luke’s training regimen to unlock some crazy powers, the dark side gave him that way. Important to note too that the dark side uses pain as a fuel.

The thing is though that when Yoda said that he was referring to Luke’s situation, and though people compare Rey to Luke their journeys are actually completely different. Luke wanted to learn the force and become a Jedi like his father. To do that he had to face Vader. The quick and easy way to defeat Vader is by using anger and hate. Like almost does this, but resists. That’s the moment he truly becomes a Jedi, when he’s able to move beyond the temptation to the dark that consumed his father and cast his weapon aside.

Rey’s story is simply not analogous. The temptation to the dark for her is just not the same. She never says that she wants to become a Jedi and learn the force. The force has always been there for her (we see it in her reflexes even before she touches the saber, just like Anakin). What she desires is connection, and for someone to show her her place . It’s not about learning how to use the force, it’s about learning in what way to use it, to what end. When Luke goes into the cave, he sees his ultimate challenge, just like Rey. But for Rey, it’s not a literal physical challenge, it’s an emotional one. The quicker and easier path for her isn’t about achieving power in the force, it’s about finding someone to guide her. When Kylo offers his hand, that’s the quick and easy path. He’s saying “come with me, I can show you your place in this.” It’s right there for her, a teacher, but it’s also companionship. But instead she chooses the hard way - to say no and to forge her own path, scary as that may be.

I hope that makes sense.

I bookmarked this. Great stuff.

I’m definitely going to use it later in conversation with people I know irl.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1158969
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Warbler said:

dahmage said:

Warbler said:

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

Warbler said:

adywan said:

Warbler said:

adywan said:

Warbler said:

adywan said:

Warbler said:

  1. the minor interaction with surroundings we see in ROTJ don’t matter near as much as finding out that force ghost Obiwan and Yoda maybe could have appeared before the Emperor and Vader and zapped them.

But Yoda didn’t just zap the tree out of thin air like the force lighting the Emperor uses. This has already been explained to you.

Whatever you want to call it, it sure would have been nice if had used it on the Emperor in ROTJ after Yoda died.

Please point me to the scene in the Emperors throne room where there were storm clouds over head so we could have had the same lightning and then i’d agree with you.

He needs storm clouds? That is never explained. What if in a future movie a force user does it without storm clouds, then can I ask why force ghost Yoda doesn’t zap the Emperor in ROTJ?

The fact that there are storm clouds coming in overhead and the lightning comes from those clouds that we clearly see in the film, isn’t enough to explain where the lightning comes from? What more did you need? Ric Olie suddenly popping his head from behind a rock to explain where it came from? 😉

We are talking about the force here, he doesn’t necessarily need storm clouds.

Says who? Where is this explained in a movie?

the movie never said he required storm clouds. For all know, he doesn’t need them.

Do you even know what point you’re trying to make now cuz I certainly don’t anymore.

when it me verses so many people? maybe I don’t what point I am trying to make anymore.

It is not you vs. so many people. You refuse to accept any explanation outside of the film itself. That is your own choice. You find inconsistencies because you choose to leave them inconsistent rather than include supplementary sources.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1158959
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Warbler said:

So which did the emperor say?

Why. does. it. matter???

Why? Why does it matter to you?

You might as well argue which English translation of the Bible is or isn’t valid based on the vocabulary used at the time of publication; or whether any understanding we have about God Himself not specifically written in the Bible is invalidated because the Bible doesn’t explicitly say so.

To the top