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Ronster

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10-Dec-2011
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18-Mar-2017
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2130

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Post
#1056955
Topic
The theatrical colors of the Star Wars trilogy
Time

NeverarGreat said:

Handman said:

Wouldn’t these frames also look somewhat different when projected, accounting for the warmth of the bulb etc.? Can you really just look at the frames themselves?

There are conflicting reports on the temperatures of these lamps:

correlated color temperature of a white flame carbon arc lamp is 5800K

Xenon arc lamps are approximately 5400K

Which doesn’t make sense since Xenons are supposed to be bluer than the carbon arc lamps.

Here, David Mullen says this about it:
“They (Carbon Arc and Xenon projectors) should be similar (daylight-balanced, like around 5500K) but Xenons are slightly bluer I think. But since carbon arc projection is extremely rare these days, most people color-time for Xenon lamp projection. It’s a bit of an issue when projecting old Technicolor dye transfer prints with modern Xenon lamps since the print looks slightly cooler than it used to, since it was timed for carbon arc projection.”

Also mentioned somewhere is the fact that carbon arc light was notoriously inconsistent since the ends of the carbon would burn at a variable rate.

Here’s a source that gives strangely low numbers, but at least it shows that the carbon arc lamp is yellower: http://inspectapedia.com/electric/Bulb_Color_Temperatures.php
Projector bulbs, carbon arc (traditional movie) 3,900K
Xenon arclamps 4,100K
This image shows just how similar the lights are, if the 200K difference can be believed:
Lights
The difference is even less than the difference between two of those panels.

So to answer your question, it appears that you would need to adjust the color of technicolor film about 200K yellower to counteract the grading for carbon arc lamps.

The Brightness of the bulb has very little to do with how the film should look more to do with how far you need to project an image through the air. The Bigger the cinema and a larger sized screen the brighter the bulb you would need. If you were in a small pokey cinema you might have a a less bright bulb but end up with a better brighter image than a very large cinema.

Think about distance and size of projected image vs the brightness of the bulb. but projected images will never look the same as anything on a TV screen ever, because projected images pass through air via light and TV screens display straight on to the display surface without any or very little atmospheric interference.

The temperature would be relative to how far the throw is of the projected image vs the temperature of the lamp before it hits the screen material (drop off) which is either reflective (slight gain) or permeable (greater loss).

This post has been edited.

Post
#1054611
Topic
The Good The Bad & The Ugly - 35MM IB Tech Preservation!
Time

TheHutt said:

The Italian cut did have an English sound mix but it was lost?

No. That’s basically a wrong assumption of how these films were made.

They were filmed without sound recording on set, as the films were later entirely dubbed in each of the languages they were released in. For the longer Italian version, the Italian dub was recorded in Italy. For the (shorter) US version, the English dub was recorded in the USA. During filming, every actor spoke his native language.

There never was an English mix for the scenes from the Italian cut in the first place. The actors had their notes on what they spoke when they played their scenes (and as Clint Eastwood pointed out in an interview, he always kept his notes as he feared the Italians might lose them - and they surely did).

Ah okay I understand a bit better now. I have not watched the new version on Blu-ray but some scenes the actors speak Italian in others the actors speak English. Now I really understand the need for the US / International cut. As some scenes use alternate takes in Italian cut vs US cut or at least that is what I read. So you might for instance have English language dubbed over an Italian version piece of footage and it does not match the lips.

Interesting points on lip synch after watching a few clips too. I imagine to do with the English dub put to the Italian cut. great film I will go and fish out my old DVD tonight.

Edit
Re-buying the old DVD just now that I sold.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1054558
Topic
The Good The Bad & The Ugly - 35MM IB Tech Preservation!
Time

I was hoping that some lost sound mix elements were found from this restoration.

The Italian cut did have an English sound mix but it was lost?

Anyway good work on getting this out officially. The thought that springs to mind for me is making a better dub with better new technology. That voice reproduction or mimicking software.

Sounds like decisions have been made already though.

Post
#1054542
Topic
The Good The Bad & The Ugly - 35MM IB Tech Preservation!
Time

Interesting…

This should be added to the extended cut really though?

https://vimeo.com/169015668

I think it’s obviously a mistake or silly chop that this footage has been left out. Seems to be a bit strict in slightly extending the extended cut. As it was never a directors cut anyway.

But also this…

4K transfer of the Extended Cut
Newly Restored 2.0 Mono Audio

No more dubbing?

Post
#1054525
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

SilverWook said:

Do most blu ray players have the ability to “zoom” non anamorphic discs these days? I know Panasonic models do.

will automatically zoom correctly flagged non-anamorphic DVDs. However, it will not zoom non-anamorphic DVDs that aren’t flagged as such.

Post
#1054522
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

crissrudd4554 said:

TV’s Frink said:

Hey look, you can get the 6-Disc DVD set that includes the GOUT from Amazon for only $310…and free Prime shipping!

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001EN71DG/ref=dra_a_ms_mr_hn_xx_P1400_1000?tag=dradisplay-20&ascsubtag=3bc20f423c91737175e22556e17a66d5_S

Funny I was just watching my GOUT DVD of ESB today. If theyre really going for those prices these days maybe I’ll start critcizing them less.

It’s a bad joke that it has come to this… It needs sorting out if anything release a Remastered DVD and wait for the 4K UHD punch up bell to ring or a knockout either way. That fight very close to finishing.

I got mine for about £15.00 about 3 years ago.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1054518
Topic
Sorcerer - William Friedkin 1977 vs Wages of Fear - European theatrical release. Discussion
Time

djsmokingjam said:

A matted 16mm print is currently up for sale on eBay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SORCERER-16mm-Print-RARE-CULT-Film-1977-William-Friedkin-Roy-Scheider-UNCUT-/252794678051?hash=item3adbbcab23:g:k28AAOSw2gxYuBVe

So did you buy it?

quite a good price!

still looking forward to your comparison when you get the chance. Obviously this would have the original subtitle fonts too.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1052488
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Fang Zei said:

Ronster said:

you have not done anything wrong but video will definitely be produced only in 10 bit color depth from now on whilst previously a lot of content was produced in 8 bit color depth. This produced Color Banding and solid gradients sometimes in some video sources.

8 bit depth was a mistake really.

To process 10 bit color depth and a high contrast you need to have a display that can handle it. If you want to get a New TV only get one that is labelled “ULtra HD premium” anything else is not of any Standard of HDR. A TV can exceed the standard also of Ultra HD premium.

I would not bother getting a 12 bit color depth display though either. The LCD panel needs to be 10 bit native not 8 bit dithered to be proper HDR.

There is very little demand for 4K video. there is a demand for an improved image and more detail better contrast more color range. Nobody want’s to stream 4k video to everyone it stupid and unrealistic and to be able to do that it’s very demanding.

all of these improvements that can be done without the massive burden of 4k for which you need a massive screen to get the benefit from anyway also and which most people don’t have the space for either. And the infrastructure for the needed bandwidth is not there either to do it and provide the service for everyone. It’s also a stretch for broadcast nobody is going to be able to get 4k down a normal aerial.

There is however everything right with scanning old films in 4k and with a higher exposure. And then displaying it on a TV with HDR at whatever resolution is needed for the size of your room / screen.

I would suggest this is the way forward for most people. Average everyday people that is.

http://www.techradar.com/news/sony-is-bringing-hdr-to-its-1080p-tvs-but-only-ps4-owners-will-benefit

I didn’t know anyone was making regular 1080p tvs with hdr. In fact, I thought the tv manufacturers had ceased making 1080p panels altogether. Very interesting.

By the way, 1080p hdr broadcasts will apparently become more of a thing in the near future according to an article I saw the other day. Apparently the industry determined that signals could be bumped up to 1080p and hdr using existing hardware whereas a complete overhaul would be necessary just to get 4k (even without hdr).

This is exactly the case and that although 4k is no doubt great if you have a very large TV there is really no need for me to buy a 4k TV as I currently have a measly 23" screen actually it’s a nice LCD with a good contrast ratio and It’s a nice picture.

But I will never buy a 4K TV for where I live because I simply do not have the space and they are all 40"+. I would invest in a Ultra HD player buy discs and display them in 1080p or 1080i and enjoy HDR yes please.

I think there really is no where for 4k to run at this point apart from yeah big telly UHD with HDR small Telly HD with HDR.

UHD Blu ray player yeah it works with both.

New Star Wars release 4k HDR works with both UHD telly and HD HDR telly

But how much HDR? Full HDR has specs and you also have Dolby Vision which exceeds that HDR10 is current spec Dolby vision sounds much much better but it’s being made too elite.

Dolby Vision need to get in with a half way house measure as their method honestly sounds brilliant and it’s a really cool idea. Dolby Vision on 12bit color depth should adopt a 10bit color depth model and stop being so elite. They need to get their foot in the door and stop being stubborn.

HDR is the new tech and it will roll out with very little change to existing broadcast technology the oweness will be on the owner for the telly the provider for the content.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1052382
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

you have not done anything wrong but video will definitely be produced only in 10 bit color depth from now on whilst previously a lot of content was produced in 8 bit color depth. This produced Color Banding and solid gradients sometimes in some video sources.

8 bit depth was a mistake really.

To process 10 bit color depth and a high contrast you need to have a display that can handle it. If you want to get a New TV only get one that is labelled “ULtra HD premium” anything else is not of any Standard of HDR. A TV can exceed the standard also of Ultra HD premium.

I would not bother getting a 12 bit color depth display though either. The LCD panel needs to be 10 bit native not 8 bit dithered to be proper HDR.

There is very little demand for 4K video. there is a demand for an improved image and more detail better contrast more color range. Nobody want’s to stream 4k video to everyone it stupid and unrealistic and to be able to do that it’s very demanding.

all of these improvements that can be done without the massive burden of 4k for which you need a massive screen to get the benefit from anyway also and which most people don’t have the space for either. And the infrastructure for the needed bandwidth is not there either to do it and provide the service for everyone. It’s also a stretch for broadcast nobody is going to be able to get 4k down a normal aerial.

There is however everything right with scanning old films in 4k and with a higher exposure. And then displaying it on a TV with HDR at whatever resolution is needed for the size of your room / screen.

I would suggest this is the way forward for most people. Average everyday people that is.

http://www.techradar.com/news/sony-is-bringing-hdr-to-its-1080p-tvs-but-only-ps4-owners-will-benefit

This post has been edited.

Post
#1052373
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

emanswfan said:

While the exact amount of detail varies between prints and negatives, any piece of film has a limited amount of detail. However the resolution is limited. So you can get a clearer and smoother image as you go up, even if no new detail is revealed.

And wider color gamut and color depth isn’t the main thing about HDR. Essentially you can go deeper into the blacks before clipping (though your room has to be ludicrously dark to most of the advantages), and more importantly vastly higher into whites before clipping, or I should more accurately just say highlights and shadows. The issue with current display standards is that you lose color vibrancy as you go dark or as you go bright. Max brightness can only be white on traditional displays. The idea is to have such values actually still retain color saturation, allowing for color decisions previously not possible. This could be as simple as being able to have the blue sky of the dat actually look bright, more similar to what you’d see with your eye.

Now the dynamic range of your format does affect the amount of detail you can show off as you can’t recover clipped values in a shot, but the details that do exist can be spread across the whole HDR range. Many modern cinema cameras can now have that level of detail to adapt wonderfully to HDR as recording in flat LOG type formats allow for an incredible amount of light information to be compressed into the footage.

Many top notch 35mm film scans currently in existence, I could imagine have plenty enough detail to support an HDR grade.

A well timed and refined HDR grade of these films from a new 4K+ scan of the negatives has the potential to be quite immersive.

Film scans can often capture the full dynamic range (aprox 13 stops) of the film now, though standard displays lack the ability to display all that range at once with about 5 stops range.

Yeah, deeper shadows and brighter highlights = HDR + wider Color Gammut this is really going to be an improvement.

I think where all this stuff get’s a bit confused is that it is essentially great to SCAN a film source in 4K (capturing detail and high exposure to capture more color) but unless you have a massive screen there is not much benefit to displaying it in 4K.

HD HDR (1080p) will be great for home viewing if you you have a 65" screen in your living room get a 4k 65" screen ok that makes sense you will get some benefit from that having it being able to display 4K.

Resolution although it allows more detail you won’t notice the extra detail unless you are very close to the screen.

There are 4k resolution phones being released now and to get the benefit of that you would have to strap the phone on to your eyes practically. It’s not any thing worth having… perhaps if you want to walk around with a phone strapped to your face / VR or AR ok you might get a small benefit.

Even if you have a 4k 65" screen you will still need to be pretty close to notice the extra detail. But being a larger display it will be noticeable.

UHD is ok but it is being forced out too early. Wait for HDR which will be the big noticeable improvement. Resolution only really works on distance from the display. HDR is a different thing it’s actually something that will make a very noticeable difference. HDR will not improve you old DVD’s or Blu-rays content will need to be specifically prepared to enjoy HDR also bear that in mind.

I would not bother getting a full 4k resolution display I would actually say anything up to 46" your best bet will be UHD HDR or HD HDR

+50" screen I would say 4k starts to become viable as an option but more towards 60"+ the benefit is much more 80"+ screen all in no doubt for 4K.

I think one of the barriers to HDR rolling out on mass though is the ability to revert the display to being a normal color range and normal brightness contrast range so you can enjoy your old content that was not prepared for HDR specifically. It’s being able to turn off HDR when you don’t have HDR pumping in to it.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1051886
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Fang Zei said:

Ronster said:

I’ll tell you the answer 4k HDR.

Well it’s a good educated guess the only reason to do a new scan is really to add the HDR. You need to scan it in HDR to get the benefit of HDR.

But there would not be much point in that unless they sort out contrast color issues also anyway.

Just saying It could be good, really good. If it’s done right. It could also look totally different from what you are used to.

It needed a new scan anyway because the old lowry master isn’t even 2k, and even then it had serious issues like wrong color-timing. But the resolution of 35mm is at least 4k, so even if the lowry master looked perfect it was still only 1080p in terms of resolution, so that’s reason enough for a newer scan right there.

The HDR is added later, after the film is scanned in. Movies have been scanned and mastered in 4k for many years, since long before HDR was even invented.

Film is under 4k resolution about 3K. (areas do need to be cropped out also bear that in mind)

You can’t create color depth or a wider gammut that does not exist in a scan. either you capture it or you do not. You would need to capture it with a high exposure. It would not be any use putting your old DVD VHS or even Blu-ray and add HDR to it.

It would need to be prepared especially to have HDR and a wider color Gammut.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1051861
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

I’ll tell you the answer 4k HDR.

Well it’s a good educated guess the only reason to do a new scan is really to add the HDR. You need to scan it in HDR to get the benefit of HDR.

But there would not be much point in that unless they sort out contrast color issues also anyway.

Just saying It could be good, really good. If it’s done right. It could also look totally different from what you are used to.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1050655
Topic
Alien/Aliens Color Regrade
Time

I have been looking at this thread and I like what you are doing.

Bad news though is the reason I am posting… And a bit shocking and surprised.

Bill Paxton passed away aged 61…

Post
#1050326
Topic
Restoring Enter the Dragon original mono track
Time

Hits said:

I checked the mono track on the bluray for that sound of the revolving mirror you talked about, but I didn’t hear anything. I did notice a very subtle difference in the sound but all it was that on the bluray they increased the impact sound of Han knocking into that spear.

There are 3 different sounds of Han being impaled on the Spear

Us Version, Cantonese Version and Mandarin version. The Mandarin version sounds the most juicy If I remember correctly so I used that one. And it’s probably the same sound from the UK TV cut as I believe the UK TV cut was sourced using the mandarin mix in a lot of instances.

But the sound of Bruce pushing the revolving mirror door is not in any of the newer releases but I am pretty sure I remember it from my old VHS taped of the TV.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1050273
Topic
Rogue One * <em>Spoilers</em> * Thread
Time

SilverWook said:

There are still some people for whom DVD is “good enough”. There were people who would buy VHS if it was still offered. I do recall a few barking loonies on the late IMDB boards who insisted Blu Rays were a ripoff. 😉

Hello 😃

I only buy Blu-Ray if it’s something I really admire and like.

I probably have only about 20 odd Blu Rays but I have over 300 DVD’s.

I bought the exorcist on VHS the other month. Only for what is in the box though not for the actual VHS so much.

Film was toned down a bit, nothing much but it was toned down by the general look of it. And stuff changed paired down. Does not stop it from being interesting though. I think it would have just been nice to see how the tone of the film changed and stuff. I think we pretty much know a lot of what was changed now about it. It would just be nice to see the stuff.

I was going to buy Rogue One on Blu-Ray…

This post has been edited.

Post
#1049944
Topic
Restoring Enter the Dragon original mono track
Time

Hits said:

Ronster your a legend. For the video what source are you using?

I used a DVD that came free with the Hong Kong Legends Magazine Diagostini release. It was kind of around the time of the first UK special edition release. before they did the 20th anniversary. It was kind of Part color corrected like the special edition. Looking back now I really need not have bothered using that release as it was like a half done version from Hong Kong before they released the 20th Anniversary version but I wanted something raw and grindhouse although I wanted to sort the Color and contrast out. I learnt a lot whilst doing it I think that was really the pay off for myself.

I think it looks good with a bit of dirt grime and scratches it suits the film in a way, as It’s like an old pair of comfortable shoes. It always had dirt on it when it was on TV too.

I re-arranged the middle part of the film also as it’s in the wrong order as per the script. It works a bit better in the middle part.

It’s not just a hit sound missing for Bolo and Roper fight.

https://vimeo.com/189354932

Yeah bad removing the music needs to be put back.

The old UK TV cut I seem to remember Bruce going out the Patio doors and then it was straight on to the guard Dog barking.

I also distinctly remember when Bruce leaves the mirror maze there was a sound for him pushing the revolving door.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1049450
Topic
Stargate 1994 Roland Emmerich (Fan Edit)
Time

Stargate Deleted scenes.

https://vimeo.com/205399595

Pretty much every deleted piece of material I can find from the film barring the making of stargate CD-rom as the quality is very bad and unusable. There are a couple of small snippets missing here but nothing major this video pretty much covers almost all the footage but a few seconds.

This was for running time purposes not for quality purposes I have all the deleted material in DVD quality

Any thoughts?

Just to add to this quickly the reason it would seem that the film got re-cut is because Carolco (Mario Kassar’s film company) got sold whilst the film was in production. It would seem to explain a lot of the deleted footage perhaps and also changing the tone of the film slightly.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1049431
Topic
Rogue One * <em>Spoilers</em> * Thread
Time

TV’s Frink said:

TV’s Frink said:

Guess I’ll wait for the double dip.

To clarify, I don’t really care about the deleted scenes that much, never have for any movie other than from a curiosity standpoint. It’s not like I’m going to go back six months later and watch four deleted scenes again. I’m going to wait for some proper special features like a good doc and/or commentary.

I have to agree even if there were not any deleted scenes if there was a documentary detailing the making of the film the loss of the composer the bringing Gilroy in charge of Final cut.

This would be just as interesting and a story unto itself. I don’t think there is anything to be ashamed of. Just interesting. It’s not like a train wreck film. It was good and I enjoyed it but it would be great to find out more about it.

The documentaries seem or sound pretty bland. Very little about actual production. Characters mainly by the sound of it. There could be bits in the documentaries but it sounds quite light.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1049370
Topic
Rogue One * <em>Spoilers</em> * Thread
Time

DominicCobb said:

Again, it’s rare that any studio releases scenes that were reshot or nullified by a radically different cut. I think everyone should stop expecting this. If it happens, it won’t be until many years from now.

The trailers that advertised the film were practically made up of loads of alternative and deleted footage. So I think it’s a bit harsh not to show some of it. I think a lot of people were looking forward to this aspect as It was really interesting.

I’ll wait to see if a deluxe version appears. I’d like to buy the film but sorry this does not meet my expectations I want something better than this.

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