zombie84

I bought them 4 times between 1994 and 1998 so I can kind of believe it, although 2 times it was the Special Edition.

Site update.

The Guardian has a new editorial slamming Lucas for not releasing the originals. Very surprised to see such a prestigious paper writing this, even if it is the internet blog. Find it in the news section. Put up a links and about page. Been trying to incorporate some of the corrections and suggestions as well, and slowly cleaning up the junk text on the pages.

EDIT

Also incorporated some of Puggo's re-write of main page text.

Sorry guys, been out of town all week, will get back to you on Monday. Puggo, your PM did not have the text you said it did, looks like you forgot to paste it in or something...

I'd be fine with a fully remastered original interpositive in high definition with the theatrical audio, as Blade Runner did. But yes, it is better to go the negatives.

Speaking of which, I'm curious as to where the new Apocalypse Now theatrical cut transfer will come from. Its a brand new HD transfer, in the full widescreen for the first time, but the negative was cut up for the 2001 re-edit.

True, there are a lot of "invisible" changes like recompositing. But think about the screen-time these take up. Count up all the re-comped Rancor, sail barge and speeder shots in Jedi. You probably end up with about 25 seconds for the rancor, 20 seconds for the sail barge, and about 4 minutes for the speeder. That 5 minutes out of a movie that is something like 130 minutes. Do you really think getting those five minute pieces, plus another two or three minutes from the CG stuff, would break the bank? And again, you would only need to do clean-up if it was necessary, some of it could just be inserted as-is.

I'm not even sure Lucas is enough of a purist to want to take the time to find the original comps and put them back in.

when does that occur?

fixed

www.savestarwars.com/starwarsblurayblues.html  is now up.

SilverWook said:

ThiefCobbler4ever said:

Mayhaps some people didn't hear what Lucas said:

"You have to go through and do a whole restoration on it, and you have to do that digitally," he said. "It's a very, very expensive process to do it."

So it's obvious he's willing to do a proper restoration on the OOT if he has enough money. So the OOT will come to Blu-Ray, the only question is "when"?.

 

A. Lucas is a billionaire.

B. The costs of a restoration should not be more than any other films of similar vintage. Not to mention some restoration was already carried out in the 90's in prep for the SE's.

C. Noted film historian Robert Harris has offered his services for a song.

D. Did I mention Lucas is a billionaire already? ;)

 Yeah, this whole "restoration" thing is bullshit.

The films were restored in 1997. It was paid for by Fox, to the tune of $20 million dollars. The 1997 SE looked pretty fucking sweet in the theatre right? Lucasfilm doesn't have to do anything because Fox did almost all the work already.

Know what Lucasfilm has to do? They have to restore the missing 7-5% material (if it is necessary--not all shots needed work) to de-SE the film and the scan the pieces, and then colour time it. It would be about a day to pull the film from the archives and scan it, and another couple days to colour correct and make the master. For a full-out restored original version of the trilogy you have about two weeks of work, to the tune of a couple hundred grand. They could do digital restoration to top it off if they wanted, but this wasn't done in 1997 and that released looked good right?

So yeah. Figure out what percentage of the films the SE footage represents. I'd say about 7% for ANH, and about 5% for ROTJ. Thats what they have to actually restore; 5% of a movie. And thats only if every frame of that film pieces need it. In reality half of it would probably be fine, so you are looking at repairing 2% of a movie. "Oh poor me, I can't find any money to spare in my 3.5 billion in assets. Get that Clone War sticker book in production!"

Bingowings said:

Personally I think the tone is currently just right.

People have tip-toed around Lucas for decades and it's got us nowhere.

The petition here is diplomatically worded (as was the previous one) the case is put with measured eloquence but it's not being listened to (just like the last one).

We need an alternative more angry but equally eloquent voice out there to be the outlet not only of our hopes but also of our displeasure.

If it falls upon deaf ears nothing has been lost but at least our frustration has been noted by others.

 That was kind of my thinking too. We tried to ask "nicely" and "politely". But we have to be more aggressive and really underline how this is an afront to history, and ethics, not to mention the personal enjoyment of all those millions who gave Lucas the power to do this. We should stop pulling the punches, because we're being dishonest to the truth and letting Lucas get away with too much.

I don't want to come across as a ranting fanboy though. Puggo had a good point that if someone who wasn't already "on our side" had come to the site they shouldn't be alienated by this crazy ranting Star Wars nerd using perceived-hyperbole on the internet. Its a difficult balance I am still trying to work out. I'm redesigning the main page to first lay out what has happened, why it has happened, why that is bad, and what this sites purpose is. editorials are more personal and passioned, but I think the balance is settled by being informative. And then you have the resources page which is basically purely neutral supplemental material. I think the focus will become clearer as I add more material. I'm going to whip something up on the Blu Ray thing tonight if I can.

see you auntie said:

Sorry I'm a little late to the discussion.

Zombie I love you (not in a creepy way, hold off on the restraining order) but are you some kind of richist?

No...

The way I see it every decision Lucas and Lucasfilm makes is in order to protect their investment. That's a huge, pardon the pun, empire to run and it's run like any other company. It's not the dream factory where artists could get away from Hollywood and head north and make their little films away from the system as Lucas once envisioned.

Profits are the bottom line and ever increasing profits are the goal, again like any other company. Slow quarter, slow year. Lay off some staff. Or close an unprofitable department. All things that most companies including Lucasfilm have done in recent times.

It's a sad reality that Lucasfilm isn't that artists retreat that Skywalker Ranch should have been. Can you imagine what the overheads are just to keep that place running each year. Jesus. Vineyards don't maintain themselves. Some how I think most companies don't have those kind of overheads to deal with.

 This. The hypocrisy and downright patheticness of the situation is just frustrating.

But beyond that, its not about capitalism and all that crap. Lucas started from nothing and made a shit load of money and along the way made some very good films too, and he also used that money to develop a lot of tools, help out schools, even charities. Good for him.

And I realize the LFL Empire is damn expensive, more expensive than most people realize. Its Lucas' right to want to make a profit. But it bugs me when he says that something isn't profitable enough when we all know it really will be. Thats just greed. And greed bothers me, especially when it comes from this man. Lucas may not lay in a swimming pool of money the way his detractors may think, but he sure has a lot more than he defends he does.

In 2004, the SE boxset sold $120 million in its first day along with a video game. Probably did about $300 million by the end of the month. How much do you think all the action figures pulled in that year? Probably combined these two elements produced $1 billion in annual sales. Plus video games, magazines, novelisations, books, television specials, and those Clone Wars DVDs. Probably over $1.5 billion in sales, and thats without any new movie. Then ROTS comes out the next year and brings in $500 million at the boxoffice, and probably about $2 billion in combined tie-ins. So from 2004-2005 you have made over $4 billion in revenue. Obviously you don't net all that, you probably only net about $3.something billion. But think about that. I realize Skywalker Ranch/Lucasfilm offices require a couple million dollars in overhead to keep running. But we're talking annual profit in the billions here. And even though it may have slowed down now, its only modestly done so.

So its just really weird to see this guy say he's afraid he might not make as much money as he would like. Its like fuck Lucas, come on. Really?

I actually would love to see the Lucasfilm books. Although with all the "Hollywood" accounting, you can never really trust them I suppose.

Good post though, SYA

Star Wars was restored in 1995-1997. It was paid for by Fox and cost about $20 million of their dollars. Lucas doesnt know what the fuck he is talking about. The restoration is already done and it didn't cost him a dime, he would hardly have to do anything at all. The only thing you would have to do is repair the missing 5% of the film to un-SE it and then colour time the transfer properly. If he wanted to go further he could start doing further dirt removal, but they didn't do that for 1997 and it looked bloody good then.

Its basically only a little bit more work than a straight transfer of the film.

Editors re-use footage all the time. Thats such a silly complaint. The footage here that was used was stuff no one saw before, so therefore its as good as original footage. The ROTJ SE shot was dumb because we COULD TELL it was re-used footage, which is a different ballgame. The Vader footage here  looks like it was filmed for the scene, we're just such super analytical nerds that we can actually break down the construct of the sequence and discover where each piece came from.

I don't think its an anti-People vs George Lucas campaign, that sounds like the writer just trying to beef up a story. Its a video of a bunch of fans sharing their star wars experiences and such. Thats it. Could be useless fluff, could be interesting if there are some cool anecdotes, probably this just b-roll for a larger project personally.

No, its a deleted scene. Its not recreated. This is the original. The original just used borrowed pieces. Its an editing technique found in all the films.

What? You said its probably because of inter-personal/business issues that aren't being reported. Im saying theres no evidence for that. The story that is reported is perfectly believable and perfectly consistent with Lucas' character and history.

Im pretty sure most mammals are aware of their self. Most that are domesticated will even respond to their name, even my pet rabbit.

The storyboards are for the two original shots they did. The one with Luke and saber. Correct? So they figured how to do the Vader stuff with existing footage and then had to storyboard what they needed to create from scratch. There's no Vader storyboards for the  scene from what I've seen...

I doubt its that.

I think thats how they actuall put this together, Erik--in 1983.

The shot of Vader walking down the hallway is from elsewhere in the film, probably as he confronts the guards. The shot of him entering the elevator is probably from the same scene, or another one. The awkward cut to the meditation chamber (how did he get there? does he just have these all over his ships and death stars?) is because there was no shot footage of him entering the chamber. The actual shot of the chamber is an outtake from Empire Strikes Back. They then edited together unused alternate takes for the voice over.

Hamill wasn't around so they filmed a double playing with the lightsaber. Anthony Daniels was shot seperately as the only other original footage for the scene and the composited over another shot of the double and R2.

I thought there was some dialogue in there but maybe there is not.

Put together and you have a whole scene where you've only filmed three original shots. They add in a lightsaber optical, John Williams scores it. Then it gets cut out.

One possible version of history.

I never thought it was some dark side thing. Luke is mysterious because the Jedi are mysterious. They walk around with robes and hoods and are are mystical and solemn, like monks. That's also the reason he has the black uniform--its supposed to be "jedi-like", in Lucas' words. The reveal of Luke in darkness is a great re-introduction to him in his new calling, completing his new lightsaber to boot. And then when he turns it on--you know that he's going to kick Jabbas ass. I guess its the "return of the jedi"?

Anyway if Hamill swears that he never shot it than maybe he never shot it. It could easily be a double since you don't see his full face. It looks like Hamill's face to me, but that could mean they just had a good double.

What surprises me is the meditation chamber of Vader's. Did they re-build that whole set just for one single shot? Normally that would be possible, but given how cheap Lucas is about not having to build sets this surprised me. Maybe they had it in storage, but it doesn't seem like one of those props/setpieces they would hold on to. I'm wondering if this was an outtake from ESB, but then I can't imagine where in the film it would have fit if it was. The dollying-in towards Vader seems very characteristic of Kershner, but very out of place for Lucas and Marquand.

Also, the Vader dialogue DOES sound like ROTJ-era Vader. But the pieces sound like they are probably alternate recordings for ESB.

Luke, join me on the darkside (and I will complete your training).

My son, (come with me, it is the only way).

And so on. He also says "Luke" a bunch of times in ESB, but not in ROTJ, which may be where they got the Luke line from.

But if the scene was basically finished why would they drop in these constructed readings? Baronlando has a good point about making things overexplained, but the scene was supposed to have Vader communicating to Luke telepathically like in ESB, and not only would not that not be clear at all without the dialogue, I would think you would want to have dialogue for this to even be possible. So, it's weird if the scene was finished and always had dialogue that Jones never recorded original stuff for it. Maybe this is it, I dunno. As I said, it does sound like Jedi-era Vader, even if the lines seem suspiciously like ESB alternates.

MagnoliaFan said:

I would bet he probably shot it and forgot all about it.

Years ago, I was at these rehearsal sessions for the Halloween recording of Alien Voices with Leonard Nimoy and he was performing "The Cask of Amontillado".  I commented to him that I hadn't heard him sound that sinister since Galvatron in Transformers the Movie.

He swore up and down he wasn't in it and never recorded any dialog for anything Transformers. I had to go out and buy a vhs of it (it was pre-dvd release) to show him his name on the cover and he was like "Wow, you don't say?"

After a while, he vaguely started to remember it and said he recorded the whole session for the film in like 2 hours and had never given it another thought.

 As a lifelong TF fan, I find that anecdote "fascinating." :p I'm surprised he doesn't know what a cult hit the film became.

Also, yeah, the FX look legit, with the old fat lightsaber blade. The scene was scored by John Williams, which means it was full edited and completed with sound and visual effects. That's probably why they are showcasing this one, it's the slickest. For instance, the sandstorm scene will hardly be presentable, because there isn't any dialogue, and it was a dialogue scene.

Keep in mind also, we are only seeing a portion of the scene. That's not the full scene, just a clip. There is a bit more before the scene starts, and the scene continues on for a while longer, with Luke loading the saber in R2 and there's some dialogue too if I'm not mistaken.

Hamill says he doesn't remember it, but as it would have literally been an hour or two of shooting he may simply have forgotten. It could be a double since you don't see his face completely but it looks like him to me. The cave background looks like it might be southern california.

TheBoost said:

zombie84 said:

I guess the bottom line is that for a mulit-billionaire to be so concerned about profit when the show is guaranteed to be at least modestly profitable, it just smacks of unnecessary greed, and it frustrates me that this is really what the bottom line has come to mean for Lucas and his projects.

But what does Lucas see as the bottom line?

He said it in the article that this thread is based on: that the bottom line is that he wasn't going to make as much money as he thought he would. This has nothing to do with some philanthropic "sharing with the world to make filmmaking better for everyone." If that becomes a byproduct of the series, its secondary and incidental. What it came down to is if he made it now, he'd have a decent amount of money to add to his uncountable billions, but if he waited a few years he would have even more money to add to his uncountable billions.

I'm sorry, its just really sad to see a billionaire complaining that he doesn't think a hit TV show will make him as much money as he would like. What happened to Lucas? This was a guy who in his youth would have told the head of Warner Brothers to go fuck himself if he ever heard him say that.

He wants to make feature film quality "Star Wars" on a TV budget. That's his goal. Really it's been what he's been working on for decade. If his goal is to make something that's "literally Star Wars" for television, consequently opening doors and pushing boundaries for all filmmakers, is that so unworthy?

Yes, but he doesn't have to keep trying to make it cheaper, that's the point. He's not doing it for others, he's doing it for himself, because he wants to be able to spend the same amount of money as the competition. But why be so cheap? The guy has a billion dollars. He's acting as though he won't make a profit. Trust me, he will. In the end it comes down to greed: how can I make more than 200% profit on this? If its a show he believes in then why would he stall it because he would only make large amounts of money instead of huge amounts of money? That's what it comes down to. And for a guy that's a multi-billionaire, you would think that he wouldn't be concerned about that.

Yes, I do get that he has an interest in making technology more...efficient, let's say. But even that is just a way of expressing cost-to-quality ratios. He has an obsession with money, with doing things less expensively than his competition, but its pointless for a multi-billionaire who describes himself as an "abstract filmmaker auteur" to make this into his life. What is more important, the actual content, or the financial side? And Lucas, even though that doesn't mean the content is unimportant, has put his priority on the financial side.

If people like James Cameron had Lucas' mindset it would be another 10 years before he made Avatar. But you spend a little more money and develop technology that doesn't exist, that's how you push the envelope and advance the state of the art, and out of that experience you realize all the ways to make it cheaper the next go-round and you have all the prototypes sorted out, so that the technology becomes available sooner than if you had waited and just kept trying to get it there without actually making anything. But sitting around say, "oh, I don't know, we'd better wait for technology to catch up," you'll always be wainting. To literally make a 1-hour Star Wars film on a TV budget is impossible right now, and it won't be very much more advanced in another two years, even five, maybe even ten. Its way, way out there, you've got to actually spend money to make a product that is a stepping stone towards it and then maybe you can get it done in five years instead of ten.

It's like how Lucas wanted to make TPM for 75 million dollars. What was he smoking? Its the same as trying to make a 1-hour SW film on a TV budget. Even now you couldn't make TPM for 75 million, maybe 90 million, and only because Lucas owns ILM and Skywalker Sound so he doesn't have to pay for having to outsource it, anyone else trying to make TPM in 1999 would have had to spend at least $150 million. But instead of waiting for this technology to happen, he had to bit the bullet and just make the damn thing, and he got the price pretty low relatively speaking (but not anywhere near where he initially wanted) and because of that he got to make the two sequels much more advanced but for the same price. If he had waited for technology to become as cheap as he wanted it, he would probably be in pre-production still. But he really just wanted to make TPM because it was his 20-years-in-the-making return to directing.

He's not just one of the richest filmmakers. He's one of the richest individuals in America, period.

Also, Lucas made the official announcement at CV. SW trilogy on Blu Ray for 2011 it seems. Will include deleted scenes like the above.