zombie84

I think the really ironic part is that a billionaire is so concerned with a few thousand dollars in lost revenue.

Personally I like the awkward silence version, but that works pretty good too. The only thing that makes me favour the Youtube cut is that it's more original--there's a lot of "name games" in the Ridiculous Menace, and the awkward silence was unexpected and novel. But it's hard to judge one way or the other, the thing with running gags is that they either get funnier each time they are used or they just become more repetitive and boring, but it's impossible to tell without seeing the full film. What seems repetitive when dished out in 30-second clips can be hilarious when integrated into a 2-hour+ cut, and vice versa.

Nice seeing new work either way. :)

The scene where the wampas break in was partly filmed, but I don't believe Luke was involved. The way it went was that R2 is rolling down a hallway and then notices something behind him--there is a shot of this in one of the trailers. What he sees is a wampa, and then rebel troops start firing at it. I guess the new deleted scene trailer shot shows R2 running away while this is happening. Anyway, I'm not positive, but I thought the gun cannon was used by rebel troopers in this scene. That would explain why the prop was built in the first place.

The shot of Luke with it is just a publicity photo, and publicity photos don't have anything to do with actual scenes, as long as they look cool. The gun cannon was a good prop to use, so they used it. Luke is in his flight uniform, which he only wears in Echo base when he is heading to his snowspeeder. That whole section of the film is supposed to be kind of quiet and sweet, with Luke saying goodbye to Han. Having a random Wampa attack scene (yet ANOTHER one) where Luke randomly mans some gun cannon while on his way to say goodbye doesn't make any narrative or editorial sense. The only evidence that ever tried to link that photo to a filmed scene is a recollection by a guy who wasn't there in 1979 who is basing this on a photo CD that Lucasfilm gave him. Probably he saw that publicity photo, and then other photos of the wampa being shot, and decided they were the same scene.

TV's Frink said:

Are any good movies ever released in January? I always thought it was a dumping ground.

 Is this on for a January release? That is really, really bad news. December is the Oscar-month, when studios push their best material out to be eligible for the Academy Awards a few months later, when the films will be freshest in voters minds. January is then the dumping season, when studios quietly get rid of all those embarassing films that they regret they made in the first place. Once in a while there is a good movie in January, of course. But usually a January release date means the studio has not much confidence in you.

Those are the 1992 release, I believe. They were always my favourite because they had the best boxart. No Fox logos, Hi-Fi stickers or publicity photos, just the poster art wrapping all the way around the front. When I purchased this version of ESB in 1994 it was the first time I had ever paid money to watch the films. To this day, I still get nostalgic seeing that specific transfer, for the dirt and grain structure that was unique to whatever print it came from.

Probably I would have consider the Executer set the best, but I've still never laid eyes on it. With that said, I'd then give my nomination to the 1995 THX 'Faces' set. The box art, while kind of weak in one way, is also a good concept in another way when you see the three tapes in a set, it works well as a "trilogy" concept. I loved those Leonard Maltin interviews--in fact, I think this was the first time I ever saw an interview with Lucas. There was also a trailer included for the special release, which was pretty cool and I still have it memorized to this day. Back then, it was unusual to have any extras on VHS, as even Anchor Bay wasn't doing it yet--the only thing I can think of was the clamshell Fox Widescreen releases which had the original theatrical trailer, but those might have only come out the year afterward.

The picture quality of the films themselves was probably the best and cleanest I had ever seen at the time, and as was mentioned the sound quality really stood out for its clarity and fidelity.

Ah, remember when new Star Wars video releases were exciting?

The whole resolution debate is a bit of a smoke and mirrors thing, because film has no fixed resolution, and resolution is not what we should be measuring anyway. The measurement is resolving power, that is, how many lines of detail can be detected on the screen. You can have a "2K" image that looks like shit and won't be anymore detailed than a really high quality 16mm negative. And, you can have an "HD" image that blows away a 35mm original camera negative. I know, because I've seen both. So saying 4K>2K>HD doesn't even necessarily tell you anything, it's just a measurement of the fixed amount of pixels the image is composed of. That film is not a digital image drives this home, as their is nothing to count--instead you measure what the results are, and there is no standard result for each format. In the case of 35mm, it depends mainly on film stock and lenses (and to some small degree, the aperature, if there are filters used, etc.). And in the case of HD (or 4K, etc.) it depends on the camera sensor/electronics, and the lens (and again, to some degree aperature, filters, gain, other small things, maybe even settings like gamma preferences). So you just have to examine it on a case by case situation and judge by eye which one looks more detailed or has more picture information.

Generally speaking though, most typical 35mm negatives are about comparable to a typical 4K image, but this is a fast and loose rule. And, generally speaking, most typical 35mm positive release prints have about the same or slightly less than a medium-quality HD image. Especially since it was a popular film, the Star Wars negative and interpositives got dirty real quick, and a movie house played their copy over and over again, so by the time a lot of people saw it for the second or third time it probably would be beat by a 720p image in terms of clarity and detail.

It's the 2004 telecine/transfer, but not the same master. It's a new master derived from the 2004 HD master. The difference is that they have increased the gamma to resolve some of the dimness issues of the 2004 release. Of course, this introduces its own set of problems.

It may be some sort of anti-piracy "watermark". That's why its so useful in identifying the 2004 transfer, because it was intended as a sort of code to differentiate authentic from inauthentic transfers, perhaps applied in the final stages of the master (ie. after Lowry, etc.) as a way to guard against in-house leaks of all the copies floating around servers and such.

Unless they have adjusted the gamma on a shot-by-shot basis. Have all the new screens been shown to use a single setting?

EDIT

Actually nevermind, that wouldn't even help. Keep it dark, it looks the way it does now. Keep it bright and the rest of the image looks like crap. Brighten it till the saber cores blow out and the image looks the worst yet. No real solution. I wonder how they ended up with all the contrast taken out of there? Maybe Lowry's evening-out for the flicker?

I don't see what the big deal is. This isn't about analyzing the glitch itself--the glitch is just a glitch. But its useful as a fingerprint that its the same HD master that was downconverted in 2004 for the DVD and shown on television in HD in years since then. That's significant, when there are all these apologists saying we'll have a new transfer and wait and see. Well, no, we can see now--it's the same master. That's why this is a big deal. It gets its own thread because the BD thread here is over 100 pages long and this piece of news has already gotten a bit buried over there.

So, this makes it visible for people wanting to know--new transfer or no new transfer? This glitch shows--no new transfer.

Now, I will also throw out there that not having a new transfer doesn't necessarily determine no improved colours. As other screencaps show, the colours have been subtly altered from the 2004 master to increase the brightness with a gamma boost from that original transfer. This creates its own set of problems, like boosting milking the mid-range out and you still don't recover detail that the crushed blacks never contained, so it's unfortunately not a particularly great solution, although the results seem to be an improvement. So, the colours aren't fixed, but they seem to be mildly improved.

Anyway, this is nothing more anal than anything else we do here. The BD release is a big deal and one of the biggest issues is whether Lucas did a new transfer or a new restoration. They didn't and this glitch shows it. If this is not a significant finding, then people can stop talking about "wait and see if its the same master" all the time.

The problem is that Han's character has nowhere to go. If I didn't kill Han at the end of the film, I'd kill him at the beginning--that is, the rescue is unsuccessful; he never gets out of that carbonite. But I think that would be a bit of a letdown, and maybe too dark for a movie that has a lot of angst in it already, at least in the manner I would have envisioned it.

That's a good issue that I never even touched on. Han's gone to the edge--he's died. How does that change a person? How does that impact how your view life, and your friends, and how does it change your philosophy about things? Maybe it would make Han a bit more sullen, more introspective about things, though he tries to mask it with his humour to make light of it. I think maybe that could have played a part in his decision, ultimately, to get himself killed so that his friends could live. That, even if he maybe tries to shrug off the experience at the beginning, at the end he knows that to feel the cold, creeping in of death and face that blackness is painful and terrifying and he would rather face that again, knowing what is there but now brave enough to embrace it, than have all of his loved ones do the same. In the second film, the Empire kills him, so that his friends could live; in the third film, he kills himself, so that his friends could live. Its repetitive a bit, but that crucial difference--that its a choice he makes for himself and accepts, not one thrust upon him--is enough to make it interesting.

Prequelsrule, I think you raised a good point about suspense. It's predictable that Han will return to save the day, but you forget about it at the time because the trench run holds your attention.

Thats like any film, too. If you stopped and thought about it, obviously Indiana Jones will survive any calamity thrown his way no matter how absurd, you know he won't die, but the film tricks you by engaging you so you can't stop and realize that. It creates the suspension of disbelief, not only of the film's world, but that the character is mortal and could die.

Any prequel film is the same. You know Obi Wan will die on the Death Star helping Luke escape so they can take stolen plans to the rebel base. But you aren't thinking that when you watch the prequels. Well, maybe you are, but if so its because the film is boring and that's the problem, not that you know where the characters end up.

Is it boring to watch Robert DeNiro in Godfather II? You know he's just going to end up chasing a kid around a garden with an orange in his mouth and plop to the ground dead as a doornail from a heart attack. Yikes, no dignity there. But no--those DeNiro prequel scenes are the best in the entire 9-hour Godfather saga.

xhonzi said:

zombie84 said:

If I were to do ROTJ, I wouldn't include a single scene from the actual film, except maybe the conversation between Luke and Vader on the Endor base and the "I am a Jedi" moment. I would throw away the entire film and start over. You probably wouldn't see Tatooine, you wouldn't see Endor, and you wouldn't see a Death Star, and none of the character arcs would be the same either. And with that, you wouldn't have Return of the Jedi, you'd have something totally else, a Sequel to Empire Strikes Back.

 It's easy to say what you wouldn't do.  Do you have more on what you would do?

 Well, writing a screenplay or even a storyline sequel to ESB is not something you can whip up on an internet forum in five minutes. It takes years to explore and write properly. And it might also take a few stabs at the storyline before you find the right plotline. I would include Dagobah--one thing I really liked about SpenceEdit was that it opened with Luke on Dagobah. We see him now, a real Jedi knight with a uniform and everything, and he is there beside Yoda as his master passes away. He's been there, training all this time and trying to get peace of mind. I would have Luke still have conflict within him, trying to come to terms with his father, still not forgiving him but only gradually coming into a sphere of grace--and that's what makes him a Jedi knight. We have to see that moment of clarity that is criminally left offscreen.

And I'd have Vader do the same, that its not so simple as just a spontaneous "don't pick on my son" moment at the end of the film but a more complex process where Vader being thrown into contact with his offspring again makes him start re-evaluating his life. The moment at the end where he finally turns on the Emperor would have more meaning, and it would be more complex. I'd have the climax set on Coruscant, maybe use the original script that had the Emperor as Satan, sitting on a throne atop a lake of fire in the bowels of the planet. A bit over the top, but you could make it work as long as you show restraint. This guy is evil, after all, so consumed by hate that it has warped his body.

The rescue of Han is a hard one to put in. I guess I'd have Luke, now that Yoda is dead, pick up his lightsaber, grab R2D2 and go find that bastard that kidnapped his friend--he has the skills now to get him back. I don't know how I'd stage it--no Tattoine, maybe even no Jabba the Hutt, but I'm not sure about that. This is the world of gangsters and bounty hunters and it would be a dangerous place, not a funny puppet show. The relationship between Lando and Han would be tense, because as far as Han's experience is concerned, he still betrayed him and sold out all his friends, I mean the guy got tortured over it, and ever though Lando helped get him back you don't just get over it over night. I'd have Han die at the end of the film, sacrificing himself--the natural culmination of his arc, a selfish loner who learns the value of friendship and, in the end, gives everything his has, his very life, to save those he loves. Maybe he could even do it to save Lando, to show he's finally gone beyond his grudges and give himself for something greater than himself.

I don't know what the middle part of the movie would be, with the Alliance. Given Luke and Vader and the Emperor are on Coruscant, maybe the Rebel final assualt would be on the heart of the Empire itself--storming the capital. You could see how even the citizens themselves don't like the Empire, they secretly wish the rebels would win, and are factioned into loyalist and rebel supporters, and as the rebels assault the Imperial headquarters from the air and from the ground the populous begins to revolt--that brief moment at the end of the SE where you see crowds overthrowing stormtroopers and pushing over statues. Finally, at the end of it all, the heroes stand in a bittersweet victory. Han is dead, Leia will go off on her own and have some part in the new order, they have a revolution to control and many fallen comrades to mourn. And Luke, most of all, is at a crossroads. He had briefly given into the darkside, and he mourns his father, but finally forgives him, and he now stands, battered and tired, the last of the Jedi Knights with a whole new world to build before him. But, somehow, he feels, finally, like a full person, a man now, who understands the world a little better. And the audience, hopefully, will be satisfied after a long and sometimes difficult journey, but they leave the story on a note a hope.

Anyway, those are some of my first thoughts on how to make the film more interesting. That's one thing the Harry Potter series got right with the final entry--its still for kids and still has lots of whimsey and humour, but the characters have to fight their way through hell and earn their victory, and it comes at a price both to their friends and to the souls as well, but in the end its a satisfying and positive thing. 

Something like I am suggesting, especially by 1983 standards the film would be very expensive, probably about $40 million or more, but it could be done, and done effectively. Like ESB, the most important thing isn't the effects or the creatures, its the acting and the characters--and thats the whole problem with the ROTJ we got in the first place.

Yeah,  in a way. It ruined it because Lucas didn't have either the talent or sensibility to go that direction again. He could have, though--ESB could have been the film that took a fun homage to adventure nostalgia and re-directed it into one of the most interesting and touching fantasy dramas in modern movie history. But it wasn't, alas. It did make Lucas take the future films in more heavy-handed "Serious" directions, though, but he couldn't let go of the kiddie-pandering aspect and he didn't know how to make the drama really work. That why, for every film after ESB, you have stupid, child-pandering elements, half-executed "mature" elements that don't mesh well with the aforementioned stuff, and one or two real, honest well-crafted moments of human drama.

Up until the last thirty-five minutes, yes. But that still leaves with 90 minutes of a pretty fun film. It gets away with it because its silly and lighthearted. After ESB, the third Star Wars film could never go that way.

SpenceEdit did a very nice--and pretty radical--re-cut of Jedi that made me enjoy it for the first time in a decade. It still has some drama and narrative problems, but it was an interesting take on it all. But like the PT I don't believe any amount of editing or SE-ing can fix the film, they can only make it watchable, and there are so many great movies out there, constantly coming out, that it's ultimately a waste of time to devote 2.5 hours just to see something "watchable", knowing beforehand it will never be particularly great.

ROTJ just has too many problems, and they are too firmly integrated to simply be cut around. On their own, one or two of them would be digestible, because the previous two films had flaws too. But together, they are too much, even though I love watching the ensemble together again, I think I would prefer to watch Revenge of the Sith.

-Jabbas palace takes up something like 45 minutes of the film. Too much. I like this sequence, actually, but it goes on for too long.

-Too many puppets and masks throughout the film. I like the uber-exotic style Lucas wanted for the film--but show some restraint. The film goes just a bit too far into Peewees Playhouse territory. When the dance scene comes on, even in 1983, the film stopped dead.

-Recycled plot. This is maybe the most uninteresting thing about the film. More cantina aliens, another Death Star battle. The original script which was set on Coruscant was much more interesting.

-The actors have no real drama. Carrie Fisher sleep-walks through the film and Harrison Ford looks like he is doing a parody of Han Solo--and did someone chop his balls off or what? The character has none of the passion or wit of the other films. But more than that, the character relationships have no tension. Lando and Han are best buds again, for some reason. Luke and Han do nothing but pat each other on the back. Luke somehow is in love with his father now, when the last time we saw him he was babbling to himself in a bloody, teary mess "Ben, why didn't you tell me..." Obi Wan just shrugs off Luke's accusation that he lied to him and was using him for his own personal battles. Luke shows up just in time for Yoda to announce he is about to die, and then does. And somehow, Luke was busy for like 4 months and couldn't be bothered to finish his training--which he is conveniently told he no longer needs anyway. And then Sister Leia is introduced and the whole storyline implodes on itself in a hideous wreckage that the film could never save, no matter how it was tackled--oh well, just enjoy the fireworks. At least the final quarter with Luke and Vader was well done though. Those scenes are as good as anything in ESB, but they are sadly inconsistent with the rest of film.

-Ewoks. As was said, the film revolves around midgets in Disneyland bear costumes who do comedy for thirty minutes and then throw some rocks at stormtroopers, all the while taking only a single casualty that gets his own violin solo to tug at our heart strings.

-Bad dialogue. Despite a couple good quips, the characters don't really have the wit or dimension of even the first film. And sometimes they say too much. One moment in the SpenceEdit that added a lot of dimension to Han was removing the line about the Falcon, "I have a funny feeling like I'm not going to see her again." Instead of saying that we simply see Han looking at the Falcon worried, and we know what he is feeling, we get a private moment with him that no one else sees, and it says a lot about who he is.

-The Emperor. Even though he has become a classic in a sort of cheesy way, if you consider the trajectory of ESB this seems a let down. This is the guy Vader is so scared of? Freaking Gargamel from the Smurfs? All he does is sit there and goad Luke to turn to the darkside, as though the mere suggestion of it is enough to turn him. If I were Luke I'd kill him just to shut him up, which is what I take it Luke was doing when he brought his lightsaber down on his cackling face. The ending moment is good though, but even then if that's how easy it was to kill him I wonder why Vader just didn't push him down the stairs twenty years earlier.

-Bad locations. This one is being a bit nit picky. But Endor is nothing too interesting. It's clearly California, and the few sand-dunes we see on Tatooine are kinda dull too. The Red wood forests offered some interesting photography possibilities but no such luck.

-Bad cinematography. After the beautiful, gorgeous ESB maybe we got spoiled. But films like this that rely on design have to be lit and framed a certain way, and what we got looked like it was intended for a made-for-TV movie. The first Star Wars had that simple style of cinematography too, but it is infinitely more interesting, and with far smaller a budget. Part of the reason I find ROTJ dull is because its so damn boring to look at. If the writing and directing are going to be mediocre, at least give me something visually interesting--this at least the prequels could do.

Finally...there's just something missing. I don't know what. Maybe its just the sum of the total list of complaints above. But there's just a feeling that isn't there. When the Rebel pilots are rushing to their ships in the Yavin hanger, or when the snowspeeders are rushing out and everyone is trying to leave the Hoth base--somehow, when a giant fish walks into a sparkling clean rebel briefing room and a CG hologram of Endor materialises in the centre, it's just not the same. It's not exciting, even if the advanced graphics and exotic design should make it more interesting. But it's not really.

You add up all these things: story, character, dialogue, mis-en-scene, entire sequences, cinematography, casting and locations...that's pretty much the whole movie. You can't re-edit that, you have to re-write and re-film from the ground up. The only thing that's not on that list is music, editing and visual effects, which are all thankfully pretty top notch--the editing is a bit quick, but that's more to do with the script. Some scenes, like on Endor, are not nearly quick enough. But taking a boring scene and cutting it fast doesn't solve anything--you just have a fast-cut boring scene.

If I were to do ROTJ, I wouldn't include a single scene from the actual film, except maybe the conversation between Luke and Vader on the Endor base and the "I am a Jedi" moment. I would throw away the entire film and start over. You probably wouldn't see Tatooine, you wouldn't see Endor, and you wouldn't see a Death Star, and none of the character arcs would be the same either. And with that, you wouldn't have Return of the Jedi, you'd have something totally else, a Sequel to Empire Strikes Back.

Shakespeare spoiled lots of his endings in the first few lines of his plays. That becomes part of the dramatic suspense--you know the ultimate fate of the story, but what you don't know if how things unfold, who does what, and knowing how things turn out gives you new dramatic mechanisms to use. You can use it to mislead and twist the viewer, knowing she or he expects certain things, or you can use their knowledge to play up the drama. A more banal instance of the latter is in horror films where the audience knows a monster is lurking behind a door but a character doesn't--the suspense becomes not "is there a monster behind the door?" but instead, "no, don't open that door!" and then the audience has to squirm in suspense wondering how the character will survive.

Anyway, most blockbuster movies like Star Wars are predictable. Will Luke beat the bad guys? Yes. Will he save the princess? Yes. Will he survive the ordeal? Very probably. But how does he beat the bad guys, what situations does he have to get himself out of, and how does the princess get rescued? This is the suspense structure of Star Wars. That's also one reason why it was downright shocking when Luke got his ass kicked in ESB and all the good guys lost--that's not supposed to happen!!

It will be good to know that there will be something cool to watch on Youtube once everyone rips these scenes. Lucasfilm will be removing them like crazy but they won't be able to keep up with the volume by a long shot.

They also shouldn't pose too much trouble to restore by hand for fan edits. I mean, what is 10 minutes of dirt removal worth? Maybe a couple months of work? Most fan preservations have toiled for much more than that running GOUT through AVIsynth so this shouldn't be too much trouble.

I have to admit, I was surprised to see the shield generator shootout footage. I don't remember that being in the script or novel. I am curious how they are going to present some of this material--for example, the sandstorm scene they show at length, while looking a lot better than I had previously seen and was expecting, is actually a dialogue scene. But for sure they were running the cameras silent, with the scene to be dubbed. A lot of these other bits rely on storyboards and such to make them comprehensible. So, I wonder if they will be filling in the gaps with subtitles, explanations, scene-missing cards, and storyboards, or just running them raw.

It sorta counts. I mean, Hardware Wars, Spaceballs, these were legitimate reflections of the OTs influence and status in culture.

The difference is that the PT doesn't have anything that mocks it out of respect that isn't Lucasfilm sanctioned or co-produced (i.e. Robot Chicken, Lego Prequels). The PT does have an influence, but it is only in the critical sense. You have Simpsons episodes where people argue about which prequel sucks more, etc. The PT has become a model example of "the bad film." Most actual bad films aren't remembered a year or two after they come out but the prequels seem to have endured in peoples minds in this respect. Noone really knows who Watto is, and he was one of the best characters from the PT, but everyone could spot Jar Jar from a mile away because he was so legendary for being annoying. If you ever see any lasting positive impact from the PT it is usually due to the OT references--Vader, Obi Wan, R2D2, stormtroopers, etc. The PT has kept the memory of the OT alive and well, but its own identity has not stood up well except in the parody department.

I never had a problem with the 1997 SE scores when they came out, but after I expanded my music tastes a bit I realized how harsh they sound. It didn't dawn on me how bad they were until I started buying the original LP scores. I had never heard the music sound like that!

Personally, I prefer the LP of Jedi the best, in terms of musical fidelity, even though ESB is my favourite score. The amount of range and clarity is great, and there is very well used bass in it. Particularly in the battle scenes near the end where you have those war drums and a slightly Wagner-cum-Holst-ish sound, it was something I had never appreciated before.

The out-of-order track listing is a common practice in motion picture soundtracks until relatively recently, as far as I know, although there is a slightly chronological progression in that usually the first track is the opening credits and the final track the climax and end credits. It's simply the result of only being able to present a portion of the soundtrack on a record; even though they were double LPs they still only contained maybe 70% of the total score, maybe less. You don't necessarily want entire cues all the time, but instead highlights, and they have to be re-edited so that they flow together; thus it necessitates ordering the music so that it flows in the best aesthetic manner. I mean, if you think about it motion picture scores were never meant to be heard on their own like an album, in any particular order, so the insistance of in-movie chronology is slightly arbitrary. It's mainly psychological associated, because we are so familiar with the movie that we know what should come "next" according to the film.

In this case, it is more likely a convenient way of ILM recycling old effects elements for convenience sake. ILM tends to do that, take an old effect, add some new things so it doesn't look quite the same. This happened in the newer Star Wars a lot, especially in the SE. The shockwave from Alderaan and the Death Stars was an element laying around from Star Trek VI, and the rontos that you see everywhere are just the CG brontosaurus' from Jurassic Park, distorted and repurposed to look more bizarre.

So, when they had to make some kind of magical, bubbly shield device for Harry Potter they just dusted off the Gungan shield and made some minor modifications to it.

Why make a four-track if it was never used, whether it the basis for the stereo and 70mm or if it was never released? And wasn't each mix, as is said, its own performance? But if the 70mm and 35mm releases are just fold-downs and +1LFE respectively, then there would only be two true actual mixing performances, no? It would make more sense that it is the international mix, but i would think if any theatres were capable of 4-track playback it would be in the US. Hmm.

Very interesting!

This is what I am re-constructing out of this:

-stereo 2-track master made for initial batch of prints for premier day

-six-track mix made for 70mm screenings

-stereo 4-track master made (which replaces the initial 2-track master?) for subsequent stereo prints. This may have been an adaptation of the six-track mix made for 70mm, simply removing the LFE.

Alternatively, the last two points may be reversed. Maybe the 4-track stereo was made immediately after the premier 2-track, and then they added LFE on it for the six-track. Or maybe each of them is its own mix, who knows.

The mono mix definitely was the last mix done, as it has all the extra ADR and sound effects, and had the most amount of time to work on it because it was considered the most important. I suspect that Burtt's recollection about the tractor beam line not being in mono is simply a mistake on his part.

Mysterious uncoverings either way though.

Darth Bizarro said:

Kurt said:

ray_afraid said:

twooffour said:

that one line about Jabba's intolerance for lousy smugglers is really the only "sore thumb" in the whole business.

ALSO it ruins the big reveal of who and what Jabba is in Jedi.

 

it also shows the Millenium Falcon before it´s actual "introduction"

Did Lucas put ANY thought in this before making the changes ?

 

@OP

interesting read !

Yeah, especially considering that when Luke and company walk into the see the falcon for the first time, the big swelling reveal music which reaches it's height only to be cut of by "what a piece of junk" is completely stupid since we just saw the damn thing like 2 minutes ago.  

 This is a perfect example. John Williams wrote that music specifically to create the comedy moment, which is based on the fact that no one had seen the Falcon before. It was written knowing there was no Jabba scene, and had the Jabba scene been included this music piece would not only be different, it would probably be completely absent, because the joke wouldn't work. The music was never meant to be heard with a Jabba scene preceeding it. It is areas like this where other artists involved in the film have their work distorted and misrepresented--what would otherwise be considered a violation of their "moral rights". But it also highlights what happens when you go back and put stuff back in; this is just a scene, but it works the same way as a whole film does (think of the Jabba scene as a "prequel scene" and the piece-of-junk scene as the "original scene"). But the effect is that the film had not been structured to accomodate such material added before, voiding a lot of the structural changes that were originally made. If you watch the scene after the film is over, as a bonus feature, the film is fine; just like if you watch a prequel as the sequel it is, then it is fine. Place it before the original material, you make the original material now act as the sequel, which undermines its entire structure.