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zombie84

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21-Nov-2005
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12-Jan-2024
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Post
#564414
Topic
3D STAR WARS for the masses...has ARRIVED!
Time

That article was such bullshit I had to look up the source and yup--not some newspaper or industry analyst, it's just a Star Wars website called JediNews. TF.N posted a similar thing.

Lowered expectations indeed.

$23 million for a 3D Star Wars re-release is abysmal. And it was $22.6 million. No one even wanted to see the Green Hornet plus it got bad reviews and that made $35 million at the same time of the year in 2011. That's a great opening. (it made no money after, but great opening). And if you read the analysts--"as predicted"--they weren't expecting $22.6 million, they thought it would do more, one even expected it to open with $35 million like Green Hornet.

This stuff is probably coming from the same guys who used to say the PT will be remembered as fondly as the OT in 10 years, and everyone will look back and see how wrong they were and how great the films were. Then it opens to awful business and the SAME BAD REVIEWS (in fact, the film officially became "rotten" on Rotten Tomatoes because of this month) and the gushers are going "see, isn't it great?" like a bunch of crazy people who simply refuse to acknowledge something so painfully obvious. Trust me, if AOTC gets released you'll see it opening to $18 million and walking away with $30 million overall and those same idiots will be telling people its great. "For a 13 year old film guys, let's lower expectations." Explain 1997 then, idiot. TPM was a turkey in 1999 but people were going to see anything that was new Star Wars 20 times so it made money. This time they all know it sucks and it's no longer "the new SW film" so it still got the bad reviews but now everyone stayed home too. I still don't know anyone in real life that has seen it, or plans to, and I live in a house full of white male nerds in their early 20s.

Post
#564291
Topic
It works on so many levels!
Time

Total Recall is like this too.

It could all be real.

Or, once Quaid sits in the chair and goes to sleep, the rest of the movie is in his mind and the fade to white with the twilight zone music at the end is him waking up.

Once I caught on to that after seeing the film as an adult it's hard to watch it straight. It just seems obvious, especially since everything the guy said would happen does--part of the adventure is believing that it's all real in the moment and not just a fantasy.

Post
#564287
Topic
'Why the SW prequels are better than the OT' - article inside
Time

EXACTLY.

That's why I never bought that "Jedi=ambiguous/bad guys" angle for a second. They were (attempted to be) portrayed as heroic protectors of democracy who were tragically outsmarted and betrayed by those within their midst, who finally caught on just a few hours too late to avert their own genocide. But they were so stiffly written, so poorly acted, and so nonsensically integrated into the plot, that it actually came across to some people that they were arrogant, complacent, corrupt, and morally questionable.

Although to be fair, Lucas played into this to some degree with ROTS, but never resolved it. "Good is a point of view Anakin. The Jedi and Sith are similar in almost every way." So, is Palpatine the only one being honest, or is he just manipulating Anakin? Lucas never really solves this, but in the end we're on the Jedi's side and it turns out Palpatine was wrong about a lot of things and was tricking Anakin most of the way, which strongly sides it on the Jedi=good angle of TPM and AOTC.

Post
#564210
Topic
'Why the SW prequels are better than the OT' - article inside
Time

Actually, I'm doing an interview with a right-wing newspaper this week, which normally isn't my thing, but they did a piece on this and they made a very good point about the factual inaccuracies. TPM and AOTC were both written and filmed before George Bush was ever in office. Lucas has admitted that any similarities to contemporary politics in those films is coincidental, as the only American politics those films referenced was the Nixon administration, and that was just one source of many (e.g. Julius Caesar, Adolph Hitler, etc.). ROTS tailored itself to the politics of the time, but only a little, as the story was already in place by 2002 and the writing was begun before the war in Iraq existed.

Post
#564004
Topic
Which version/release of the Star Wars movies do you watch and why?
Time

CatBus said:

Harmy said:

thecolorsblend said:

-- OT
GOUT. It's just the best option that I've got ready access to. Besides, I've got little or no use for fan edits and such nonsense. 

The choices are only limited if you allow yourself to be limited by blindly condemning fan efforts.

 

In defense of thecolorsblend, the existence of "fan preservations" as a subset of "fan edits" is counterintuitive to many, and certainly unknown to most (even members of this forum may simply never check that part of the forum).  I'm a relatively recent member of this forum and the existence of fan preservations was a major, world-shaking revelation for me.

The whole idea that fans, using (mostly) home video releases, could create a better-quality product than studios who actually have access to film masters and tons of expensive equipment seemingly defies logic.  That's why "the GOUT is as good as it gets" is such an entrenched opinion. 

As unpopular as this opinion may be, it's an important one. And largely true. Hopefully we can further change this just by continuing to do what we do.

Post
#564003
Topic
3D STAR WARS for the masses...has ARRIVED!
Time

Yeah, I wasn't sure how exactly it would do, but I expected something closer to the $30 million range. $23 million is rather dismal. Next week might bring a bit more cash but after that it's over. This thing might have a hard time crossing the $40 million domestic mark, and if that is the case then it is a money loser. But I can't say it's unfair. In fact, it seems strangely appropriate--it's got an a+ brand name, and it's not a completely terrible film, so it deserves a bit of money and will be handed more money than it deserves, but nothing too extreme. I don't even know if I care about ANH3D enough to NOT want this to bomb. AOTC certainly will.

And, you know, thinking about it--they already have converted most of ANH3D. They have spent more than the original budget, and have been working on it since 2007 I think. They will not piss that down the toilet when they know this is the most popular film of all time after Gone with the Wind. If TPM is a failure they will still release at least the original. This whole "give me your money now or I'll kill the films you love" stuff is just a bluff designed to take money from people for something they don't even like that much.

Post
#564001
Topic
'Why the SW prequels are better than the OT' - article inside
Time

If this was posted on theforce.net in 2003, I would have at least thought it was original, however misguided. Sadly, I've heard all these fallacies and strawman arguments ad nauseum. It's all a bunch of horseshit. Plus, as someone pointed out, an interesting idea terribly executed is still just something terribly executed. It would be better to watch a bad idea masterfully executed. The only thing the former has going for it is that it might make you think, but all you can think about is how bad it was all done.

Whatever. I guess with the re-release there is one of these amid all the bad reviews. Fun for the fans of the prequels, but I doubt it will sway anyone. People might say "hmm, interesting, I should take a second look," and then after 15 minutes of Episode I will laugh at themselves, turn the movie off and do something more productive with their life.

Post
#563999
Topic
Proposal for George Lucas re an OOT release
Time

This is a good idea. That WB program was very innovative when it was introduced, and a model program for other studios to follow. WB has always led the industry when it comes to classic movie releases on disc.

But personally, I don't think it was ever a question of money. Lucas is a billionaire, and the original is possibly the most popular film ever made second to Gone With the Wind. Plus, he has his own archive, plus Fox paid for most of the restoration in 1996 already. He has the materials, ability, and financial motivation to do this. I really wish he was as much of a sell-out as people accuse him, otherwise this would have happened a decade ago. Unfortunately it is strictly ideological, and the singular element that can change that ideology is public opinion. At the very least, that assault on reputation led to the GOUT.

Post
#563799
Topic
3D STAR WARS for the masses...has ARRIVED!
Time

If it did $8.6 million on Friday (which includes midnight sales) I would expect it to do about that on Saturday and then finish with a Sunday total of about $25 million. Which is kind of unremarkable, but okay. I think maybe they were hoping it would do something closer to $35 million to really make it a success.

If we expect the typical 50% dropoff per week that would give it $13 million in week two, and $6 million in week three. And then it will basically be gone. That would probably make it's domestic grand total at about $50 million. Which is okay; enough to turn a small profit. But certainly not the huge success of 1997. In fact, it's the same as what Beauty and the Beast did last month without a strong ad campaign or as popular a franchise as Star Wars or as many screens, and close to half of what Lion King did.

It will be interesting to see what Titanic's numbers will be.

Post
#563441
Topic
Lucas is just trolling now - THR Interview
Time

Any time there is a camera crew there, the location has been booked, release forms secured, plus security and possibly even police to lock the location off. As someone mentioned regarding the scenes of him writing, this stuff is regularly staged. I was a reality-TV DP for a few years and this is always how this stuff is done, just because you have to.

He probably does occasionally do something like this though. He drives himself around too, and takes his kids to school when they were younger, and I'm sure he does other "normal" things; it's not like he is a prisoner in his house. But it's not like the way you and I live. Mega-celebrities simply can't go about their business like us, although sometimes they try.

Post
#563438
Topic
Lucas is just trolling now - THR Interview
Time

I think a large part of this has to do with the fact that George Lucas isn't a regular, integrated part of society. The world he lives in is not the same as yours and mine. He can't go check out a movie theatre saturday night, or take the subway downtown. He can't just go with a friend to a comedy club, or take a walk around the neighbourhood when he is feeling restless. He can't go window shop on sunday afternoon with his girlfriend, or take his kids to the local baseball game. He's not going to have a conversation with the guy standing next to him in line at the bank, because he doesn't line up at the bank in the first place, and he can't walk into a comic book shop and see what's out this week.

These are all things normal people do, and things that people here do. Mostly, Lucas doesn't go out at all, and when he does it's usually just for work purposes.

Think about that. Think about what that does to a person, and how it affects the way they see the world and how they understand their own culture.

But, in fact, George Lucas the person is hardly a part of 21st century American culture (or any culture, really). He has a sense of it, and memories from the 70s when he could be a free member within it, but he doesn't experience or understand it the way normal people do. It simply isn't possible.

I think that's a big reason why a lot of his views in the last decade or two have become increasingly warped. He's not a lunatic--he just doesn't have a clue. In a way, it's not really his fault, it's simply what happened, and he tried to resist for so long, to his credit--he tried to be ordinary, to not let the fame and fortune change him. He bought a Corvette, but it was used, he built a mansion, but it was for work, and he still walked around in tennis sneakers and flannel. People in the late 70s used to compliment him on how ordinary he remained in spite of great wealth--and Lucas used to say that is why his films were successful. "I'm ordinary, and its the same ordinary of my viewers, so I understand them and how to entertain them," he (paraphrasing here) said around 1980, and it was probably largely true. He said in 1981, Star Wars is just a movie and people shouldn't get so hung up on it. He could say such a thing back then. It was a fad, with lots of merchandising and a cultural footprint, but it hadn't been enshrined in history, it still was, largely, just a popular film.

But there is only so long you can resist against such a lifestyle. After three or four years, sure, he seemed the same. But after eight years, twelve years, twenty years--with  each year bringing him even more wealth and fame than the one before it (except 1984-1990)--it catches up.

So now, you have him saying people want Han to be coldblooded and nonesense like that, ascribing various motives and thoughts to some fans. But he has no clue really. He may log on the internet from time to time and spend an hour browsing around, he probably still reads the daily newspaper, and he surely get reports from his staff and marketing guys about "the buzz", a sort of briefing on what people are saying and what's happening. But its not like he could know anything from experience. He lives in his own world, and he convinces himself of certain things, plus the brief glimpses he gets from sources like meetings and the internet. But all that stuff I mentioned at the beginning? The subways, the shopping, the movie theatres? He largely doesn't do that. He doesn't exist in our culture anymore, in the regular sense. He has his own culture, and his own world, with its own population of staff and such, plus a small circle of family and a few friends who are also mainly celebrities of some kind.

I think that explains a lot of this disconnect not only in his statements but also the disconnect in his films. He's this super-powerful billionaire who has led a life of relative isolation for the better part of 30 years now, apart from the normal world. How could he have a clue about what the 21st century is like for all of us reading this? How could he make a meaningful film for such audiences? He tried, and it's not like it was a total failure, but the huge shortcomings come from the shortcomings of Lucas the human being, and I'm not talking about his skills with grammar or lack of directing panache. And because he is the one who often dictates company policy, a lot of things Lucasfilm does these days is equally out of whack.

I guess that is the downside of not having to have a care in the world and being able to do pretty much anything.

Post
#563376
Topic
Lucas is just trolling now - THR Interview
Time

I don't think Lucas gets away with the "just a movie" thing. The fact that it is NOT just a movie is what made him one of the most powerful directors in history, who can do whatever he wants, and it made him into a BILLIONAIRE. $3.2 billion, I think according to Forbes. He can pretty much do anything he wants that isn't illegal, and probably a number of things that are. Want to make a WWII epic? Sure. Vacation in Europe? Sure. Buy a villa in one of the most expensive getaways in Italy? Sure. Race at a Nascar event? No problem. Live on your own ranch? Done. Private jets? Tickets to the Oscars? A collection of cars? Never having to pay a bill for the rest of your life? Sending your kids through college on one week's paycheque?

The man ought to be on his hands and knees thanking god that Star Wars is not just a movie. The man is so out of touch--because of the lavish and powerful lifestyle handed to him and his family because, wait for it, his films are bigger than just regular ol' flicks.

Also: for a guy that claims it's "just a movie", what's with all the merchandise? Star Wars is quite quantifiably not just a movie, it's all this other stuff like toys and games and TV shows and magazines. If he wanted to put his money where his mouth is he could get rid of all that stuff, but then he'd be only disgustingly-rich instead of ludicrously-rich, and he's way too comfy to let that go. He'll instead just bitch about how his fans love his work too much. Ah, billionaire problems! What a terrible life, this 3.2 billion dollar empire I live and work in, trapped in a prison of wealth and fortune, with the opportunity to do and make anything I want while hordes of fans worship me every waking hour. The pain of it all!

Post
#563340
Topic
3D STAR WARS for the masses...has ARRIVED!
Time

SilverWook said:

Harmy said:

Well, the thing is, I'm sure you can always watch a 3D film in 2D.

 

Are 3D Blu Rays "backwards compatible" with 2D viewing?

My understanding was that they are not. But you can buy...2D glasses? I'm not sure what to call them, but you wear them and it makes it look like 2D. They made them for people who get headaches from the 3D. But if 3D becomes an industry norm then I'm sure there will be TVs or players made where it converts the image back into 2D.

Post
#563313
Topic
3D STAR WARS for the masses...has ARRIVED!
Time

To be fair though, I don't think he has any problem with a director doing anything to their own movie. He's only spoken out when the filmmakers haven't been involved. Ray Harryhausen recently colourized one of his black and white films, to pretty good results. The difference, though, is that Harryhausen made the original version available in the same set. I wonder now: if 3D becomes a permanent element of TV and film--and it could, in the nearish future--would Lucas even offer the 2D versions anymore? And how big would the backlash be if no one could watch the films in 2D anymore? Would his "my vision, my films" rhetoric still hold up to prequel fans?

On the other hand, if he's been anything it's inconsistent. At the same time he was saying the originals won't be sold because they don't represent his vision of the films he was releasing the prequels in pan-and-scan DVD.

Post
#563304
Topic
3D STAR WARS for the masses...has ARRIVED!
Time

Funny how Lucas' letter about the release of Episode I has a behind-the-scenes photo of an iconic moment from the original film and not the film that is actually being promoted. Guess a picture of Lucas directing Ahmed Best in his Jar Jar suit surrounded by a wall of bluescreen didn't cut it. Lucas continues to use a movie you can't even watch to promote a film few even like.

Post
#563090
Topic
3D STAR WARS for the masses...has ARRIVED!
Time

walking_carpet said:

TheBoost said:

 He probably doesn't rationally know why his films were genius anymore than he knows why his other films are so dissapointing.

 i think he knows. he ended the Making of TPM book by saying "for every perosn that likes star wars, 3 people will hate it". WTF!?  then he did all those 'interviews' preceding the premiere saying how everyone hates him, etc.  it was all cover because he knew the movie was bad. 

the problem is - for a great deal of classic moments, characters, designs etc -  he wasn't actively and as intimately involved in the creations, so he cannot recreate it even if he knows what he is seeing.  The score is I think the greatest example.  Credit him for wanting a symphonic score as opposed to synthesized music that was trendy in the 70s.  but he didn't expect in a million years for john williams to come up with THAT.  any symphonic score would have been fine and thats why we have all those annoying cut/paste jobs in the PT :(

plus the fact he almost certainly does not care and will continue to infantilize SW and just aim for lowest, easiest common denominator :(

I think he actually wanted Williams to use either classical pieces a la 2001, or Korngold's music from stuff like Captain Blood. And then Williams said he could do something like that but original and better and he came back with the SW score. I'm probably mixing up the details but that's sort of how that happened. And it's an important point you bring up. The same thing applies to guys like Ben Burtt and McQuarrie--Lucas can be credited for recognizing their talent and giving them a good direction to go in, which is why his early stuff was so good, but he never in a million years expected what they came back with. Star Wars is largely a film of serendipity that could never have been forseen, which was why no one at the beginning, including Lucas, expected it to be good. If you played them Williams score, showed them ILM footage with Ben Burtt's sound effects and McQuarrie's designs, and of course the human actors who had such chemistry, I bet a lot more people would have said "this is going to wow everyone."

Post
#563060
Topic
Movie(s) you've seen the most?
Time

The original Star Wars for sure, followed by Empire Strikes Back. I have no idea how many times I've seen them; a few times a year for about 25 years, with some years having periods of watching them a few times a month. At least a hundred times, at least the original. Sometimes I can't actually believe I still enjoy it--I sit down and watch it each time and it's like the first time all over again, somehow it still entertains me. My family would always say that, they'd see me clicking through the TV stations and I'd find Star Wars on and I would just sit and watch it and they can only say "how many times have you seen this movie?" It's also the film I've seen the most in theatres, since I saw it five or six times in 1997 (otherwise Inception takes the cake at three or four screenings).

Other than that, the list of most-seen films for me is a bit random. I'd probably say these are contenders for the list:

-Terminator

-Predator

-Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom

-Superman IV

-Matrix

-Jurassic Park

-Transformers: The Movie (1986)

-Aliens

-Alien

-Wizard of Oz

-Dawn of the Dead

-Ravenous

-Spaceballs

-Cocoon

-Neverending Story

-Evil Dead II

-Fight Club

A mix of a lot of stuff I watched a million times as a kid, and still do to this day, and stuff I discovered as a teen. I would say the Terminator possibly tops the non-SW list, as I had it on tape when I was five and loved it and didn't see Terminator 2 until many years later. There's a lot of stuff that I also watched a ton when I was younger but then haven't watched that much since, like Willow and Masters of the Universe. Goonies, Star Trek II and Who Framed Roger Rabbit are also runners up, but I feel like I don't watch them that much these days, maybe once every five years, while the rest I see at least every two. Actually I just saw Masters of the Universe yesterday (on Youtube no less) for the first time since the mid-1990s and it was much better than I was anticipating it to be, Dolph Lundgren and that pseudo-homo-erotic scene where skeletor has him whipped naked aside.

Actually, for someone who often has bad things to say about it, I've seen Phantom Menace almost as much as those. But hey, I guess it is in the same company as Superman IV and Masters of the Universe. I would probably remember TPM more fondly today if I just stopped watching it! Prequels: Good if you don't watch them. I also saw it four times in theatres, making it a runner-up for most-viewed theatrical.

Funnily, ROTJ doesn't even come close to making this list. I probably only saw it five or six times as a kid (haha, "only") and ended up tape-recording Super Dave Osbourne over parts of it. And this was way before the ROTJ Sucks meme was around! I know that I fast-forwarded to the space battle and lightsaber duels a bunch though. I had an idea when I was eight to make a dub which edited together the space battle into one long sequence, which I may finally do now! I tried to get this experience back then by just skipping from segment to segment; probably much easier now with DVD chapters. I guess the film always bored me except for a few action parts.

Post
#562863
Topic
3D STAR WARS for the masses...has ARRIVED!
Time

Pretty lukewarm, so far. The first was glad that the 3D wasn't over-the-top, but felt it had some technical issues, and still found the movie highly problematic. The second one isn't crazy about the movie, but enjoys having a Star Wars film on the big screen, but ultimately feels the 3D conversion itself is poor. I'm more curious to see how critics re-evaluated the film a decade later, but these samples seem to be basically saying the same thing as the negative-moderates of 1999. I guess we'll see how this develops.

Post
#562794
Topic
It's Official: George Lucas hates his fans :P
Time

Yeah, it kind of bothers me that the Hobbit is only available in an edited form. BUT--and this is a big but--the original text is available in the annotated book. Since text is text, it's 100% perfect quality as the original; furthermore, it IS possible to buy ample second-hand copies of the original, again in the highest quality possible because text is text. And also, if LOTR fans were so inclined, one could easily just edit together all the original annotations in the currently-published special book; a kind of fan presentation like how we stitch together sources here. All the resources are there. Since, as far as I am aware, no Tolkien fan has done this, amid all the millions of fans and dozens of Tolkien website and communities, I must conclude that either no one cares enough to do that, or the annotated version or original second-hand copies suffice for the minority interested in the original text.

A situation completely different from the OOT, where only badly-degraded copies are available. It would be like if the original Hobbit had only been published in a photocopy packet with much of the text hard to read and no modern annotated version. Luckily Hobbit fans are fortunate to have the original text, in its original quality, plus older original copies. When Lucas puts all the OOT footage on Blu-Ray in HD as deleted scenes, I would happily shut up and get to work stitching them together into a preservation edit.