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zombie84

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21-Nov-2005
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12-Jan-2024
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Post
#610098
Topic
Since when did ROTJ become less highly regarded than even Episodes II or III?
Time

I agree that ROTS was regarded as BY FAR the best of the prequels.

The problem is that the prequels were badly regarded, so it's like being in first place of the losers. Jedi on the other hand is in last place of the winners. Their review scores are actually not that different, but like I said, Jedi is in good company and is seen as a classic, while Sith is not. I think if there was no Episode I and II and Revenge of the Sith was released as a stand-alone prequel to the OT it would have been lumped in there the way Jedi sort of is, but such is not the case.

Post
#610095
Topic
Disney Acquires LucasFilm for $4.05 billion, Episode 7 in 2015, 8 and 9 to Follow, New Film Every 2-3 Years
Time

Easterhay said:

How can people know these things, though, without them being made public knowledge? I am suitably wary and suspicious of anyone who claims "insider information".

For the record, it's public knowledge, otherwise you are right, it would be hard to put much faith in claims like that. McCallum has been asked about the OOT, and what he has said is that he would be onboard for releasing it and raised the subject in the past but Lucas has strong feelings against that and so basically Lucas is the boss, so that was that. He's not the only one who has raised the subject within Lucasfilm, but Lucas' feelings on this are already well known so when he says no you basically drop the subject. People work for Lucas and not the other way around so there is only so many times you can bring up something you already know your boss doesn't like.

Post
#610091
Topic
Since when did ROTJ become less highly regarded than even Episodes II or III?
Time

In answer to the original question, ROTJ has never been less regarded than Episode II, but maybe on par with ROTS. The difference though is that ROTJ is still considered a classic, while Episode III is not. Part of that is because ROTJ is connected to Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back, while Sith is connected to Phantom Menace and Attacks of the Clones. It's not in good company. If you read the reviews and remember audience reaction they are pretty close to being even though.

Post
#610089
Topic
What exactly was stopping George from "handing off" the prequels???
Time

It's not that it wasn't dark. It's that it was so very childish, and again I mean that in a neutral way, it's a film meant to appeal to ten year olds, while the other films were the sort of films that adults make for themselves that also appeal to ten year olds; Spielberg was the king of that genre too, and I feel Pixar and Peter Jackson have been doing decent jobs of it too. If it was darker it would have helped it's rep, and I also think it's silly to say its dumb to expect the film to be dark, there was every reason to excpect it to be darker than it was, it's almost silly to have expected it to be as light and kid-friendly as it was, but that's not the root of the problem. The backlash came from the fact that Episode I wasn't a great film, it was always going to get mediocre reviews, but the fact that it was child-friendly by Return of the Jedi standards made things twice as bad and amplified the negativity that was already there. Really, Episode I isn't terrible, it just wasn't all that good, and people hadn't waited 16 years for something that was "meh." So, viewers were guilty of exaggerating things, but the film was guilty of being a bit lousy as well. Put those together and you have the cinematic disappointment of a lifetime--sort of unfairly earned, but also unable to really defend itself because it's sorta poor in the first place.

Post
#610084
Topic
What exactly was stopping George from "handing off" the prequels???
Time

nightstalkerpoet said:

With TPM... so much was jam-packed into it, and it had such a different feel from the OT, that a lot of people had to see it two or three times just to wrap their heads around it. A lot of reviews these days contain "I saw The Phantom Menace like 5 times in theaters". I don't think that was the case with AotC. Some people didn't like TPM, and didn't come back. Some people came back hoping AotC was better, and decided it wasn't. Most people saw it once, shrugged their shoulders, and waited for RotS to figure out where the hell this was all heading. A small minority loved the film and followed the SW trend of multiple viewings.

Generally though, it succeeded because it was a Star Wars movie. 

I think this is a pretty fair assessment. The unfortunate thing about Episode I for me was that I don't think the marketing did a good job of preparing people for the type of film they were going to see. The trailer for Episode I is still the best thing to ever come out of the prequels, I wanted to see that film! I still do! It was the spirit and feel of Star Wars, but also fresh and original. The film that we got was decidedly different; I still feel like it's not the film previewed in the trailer. And keep in mind, I actually did like Episode I when it came out, and still do to a large degree. I don't think it's a very good Star Wars prequel, but I derive enjoyment from it. But it's not what I wanted or expected, and I mean that in a neutral way. The film was always destined to get bad reviews because even though I say I enjoy it, I also realize it's not a particularly great film, but I don't think audiences were prepared for this silly, whimsical children's fantasy film, they were expecting something a bit darker and a bit more grown up.

That's the reason Episode II got good reviews at first, but now is often regarded as the worst of the series. I loved AOTC when I first saw it, mainly because it was the Episode I that I was (sort of) expecting, and the basis of most positive reviews were that it wasn't Phantom Menace, it was daker and more "Adult"...but while I saw Episode I four or five times in theaters, I only went back to Episode II once, and every time I watched it I liked it less and less. The reason being, once the excitment of having a serious, darker film that actually set up the events of the OT wore off, I realized it was one of the worst acted, written and directed movies I have ever paid money to see. The film simply sucks. But after Episode I, it seemed like a breath of fresh air. Phantom Menace had so much backlash that anything would have seemed better, but in retrospect I feel like at least George Lucas was genuinely trying with Episode I, while Episode II really just feels like he had no idea what to do with the film and just sort of threw it out there. I get the feeling of absolutely no confidence or enthusiasm went into that film, and maybe it's because the backlash of Episode I was such a sucker punch for Lucas that it took away his confidence and joy in making a follow-up, but he was now obligated to even if he didn't want to. I mean, there is no way he could have predicted the negativity people had for him and Episode I, I am sure he was genuinely shocked and felt like shit for a few months. I mean, he was a god before Episode I, it was shocking to us, and he seemed to be really excited about making Episode I, so I get the impression that the backlash was as unpredicted for him as it was to us. People accuse Lucas of sometimes loathing his fans, and I tend to agree sometimes, but I think part of the reason is that he felt kicked to the curb by them, not that he is correct--he's not, and we still made him rich anyway so he laughed all the way to the bank--but I think there is a lot that Lucas either denies feeling or doesn't open up about.

Post
#609448
Topic
What exactly was stopping George from "handing off" the prequels???
Time

Lucas has said money was one of the motivators. His company was doing okay in the 1980s, but they had to work hard creating new products without any more Star Wars movies or toys. They diversified, created LucasArts, Skywalker Sound and Pixar, which they then sold, plus they started creating tv cartoons and tv films, as well as Disney Land attractions. But a lot of them were in shaky shape because they were still new. ILM was luckily doing fine, but Lucas also made some bad investments in films that didn't return much profit, like Twice Upon A Time, Howard the Duck and Tucker.

So, it was only in the early 1990s that Lucasfilm started stabilizing and making good profit. This coincided with the Star Wars rebirth starting with Heir to the Empire and Dark Empire. That huge resurgence of Star Wars merch lifted Lucasfilm from doing reasonably well to doing very well. By the mid-1990s, Lucasfilm now was making enough money to finance a feature film on it's own, which was Lucas' goal, to return to directing using his own money. So, he looked, and he was faced with this: he could put all his money into some weird original film he wanted to make, but if it wasn't a financial success that would kind of be it, Lucasfilm would have to struggle again to get themselves back to that position. But if he took that same amount of money and made a Star Wars prequel, it would guarantee to double Lucasfilm's income, so that they wouldn't have to worry about whether something flopped or not. That's one reason that Lucas made Phantom Menace so kid-friendly--if the film flopped it was all the money the company had at the time.

Unfortunately, Lucas never got around to doing the OTHER things that the prequels were designed to financially secure. I think he just got tired, lazy, and afraid of challenging himself. So, he made the prequels because they would make him the most money, but then he just sat on the money and made more Star Wars spin-offs, so he essentially ended up doing just to get himself richer.

There's a good exchange from him and Charlie Rose in 2004:

Lucas: At the same time, my kids are getting older now. That’s why I got to go back and do more Star Wars. And when I went back to do more Star Wars I had a very soul-searching discussion with myself about “should I go off and do these three Star Wars or should I go off and do these other movies that I want to do?” And now my kids are old enough that I can go back and direct movies—which is what I wanted to do. And I opted for the Star Wars thing because again it was one of these “well, the opportunity is there and I think I’d be foolish not to do it... I decided one of the reasons to go back to Star Wars was that it would hopefully make me financially secure enough to where I wouldn’t have to go to a studio and beg for money... That’s what I’ve earned. That’s what I’ve been struggling for all of these years in the end, to be able to do what I want to do without a lot of corporate interference and craziness. And I felt strongly enough about it to where I dedicated myself to getting to a point where I could be independent enough to not have to go down the path of compromise for the sake of somebody who isn’t really that interested in what you’re doing anyways.

    Charlie Rose: But are you saying you just got to that point?

    Lucas: Pretty much. I’ve always had to invest everything in what I’ve been doing. So, like with all the Star Wars films, I took everything I made out of Star Wars and invested it in Empire Strikes Back. I took everything that I made in Empire Strikes Back and Star Wars and I put it into Return of the Jedi. When I finished all of that, unfortunately I got a divorce and that sort of set me back quite a ways. So then I had to kind of start over again. So then it took me six years to get back to point where I was financially even. And build my companies up. And then I started working again. And then I decided one of the reasons to go back to Star Wars was that it would hopefully make me financially secure enough to where I wouldn’t have to go to a studio and beg for money. And so I took all the money that I had at that point and I invested it in The Phantom Menace, and then I did the other one [Attack of the Clones] and now I’ve got it all in this one [Revenge of the Sith]

Post
#609296
Topic
Last movie seen
Time

I never really got the Bond series. They are okay movies, I like some of them and have seen almost all of them, but I would put them in the same category as Michael Bay films, some of which I also enjoy in the same sort of dumb, comic-book sort of way. I just never got why people go ga-ga over Bond while condemning similarly stupid films to hell. Half the Bond films aren't worth watching, and of the other half that are, only half of that are really good, so that's like.....6 out of 22? Casino Royale looked like a really good film but when I finally saw it I found it to be only better-than-average. I dunno, Bond has just never excited me. Decent films, worth watching, just nothing special. I look forward to seeing Skyfall since it's supposed to be great, but I'm really only expecting something above-average, and I will definitely be waiting for home video. I only see one or two films a month, including repertoire cinemas, and my money has better places to go.

End unpopular Bond rant.

Post
#609294
Topic
3D STAR WARS for the masses...has ARRIVED!
Time

I have a feeling both will fail. AOTC has always been the least popular film in the series. I didn't see TPM and I doubt I will pay money to see AOTC, but I would rather re-watch Episode I twice than sit through half of Episode II once. Episode III on the other hand, I actually enjoy, and look forward to seeing--but the Sin City sequel will capture that key older audience like me instead.

In short, the prequels will continue to fail. But it will be more than made up for with the originals. If Disney had designed this release and not Lucas they may have skipped the originals alltogether. I saw Star Wars six or seven times in 1997, and I will probably see it the same amount in 2014.

Post
#608961
Topic
Let's all say something nice about George Lucas. No insults allowed.
Time

Last Crusade has some of the best acting in the entire trilogy, it's just ruined by being a re-hash of the first film, probably in response to the criticism TOD received. It's a really well made film, it's just not very original. But my favourite Indy film has been Temple of Doom since day one, and a lot of people call me crazy for saying that. It probably is not unrelated to the fact that I also enjoy KOTCS as well. I guess I just enjoy the crazier elements of the series. I love cult horror films, and whenever people ask me what my favourite horror films are I include Temple of Doom, and people react weird, but I guess that's why it's one of my favourite films of all time. It really comes down to how you look at it, and I think that's also one reason why I forgive Crystal Skull a lot of it's flaws.

Post
#608956
Topic
Retro Gaming - a general discussion thread
Time

My Virtual Boy has died. Since I didn't drop it or anything, I am hoping it is the batteries, even though it was a new pack and I played it for less than two hours. May have to open it up and check the connections in the worst case scenario. Unless this stupid thing has 1.5 hours of battery life, which even I don't believe.

Davnes007, if you can get a bunch of CD-i games for cheap, I would invest in the system, just make sure it is tested and working, as they tend to be unreliable today like many early 1990s non-mainstream hardware. If you are patient it isn't hard to find a good deal on the console.

Post
#608260
Topic
Michael Arndt heavily involved in writing the new SW trilogy
Time

I can settle this. Which trilogy is more popular?

The trilogy that features a retired Jedi in one film (Kenobi), and an instructor Jedi in another film (Yoda), and basically no Jedi in the third film (Kenobi and Yoda dead, Luke not a Jedi until the end)?

OR

The trilogy that features hundreds of Jedi, often all onscreen at once (Clone Wars), with many of the main characters being Jedi or Padawans in the Official Jed Training Program (Mace Windu, Kenobi, Anakin, Yoda, Ki-Adi-Mundi, Qui Gon Jin, and many others in supporting roles), where one of the re-appearing locations is the Jedi Temple, and where issues surrounding the Jedi order and how it operates and it's future are constantly being discussed?

There is actually an inverse relationship to the popularity of the Star Wars trilogies and how much Jedi figure into them. The original trilogy wasn't much about Jedi, and everyone loves it and wants to see more of it. The prequel trilogy was almost exclusively about Jedi, in almost every scene, and it sucked and no one wants to see any more of that. If anyone is excited for the sequel trilogy it's because it's a sequel to the original trilogy, not because it's connected to the prequels in any way. And there is no reason why they need to be. I expect them to reference the prequels once in a while and perhaps include some things introduced there, I guess; but there is no reason why they have to be similar to them or heavily connected to them, especially when they aren't popular.

Part of the lesson of the 6-episode series that we have is that the Jedi were idiots and were corrupted, and Luke succeeds because he DOESN'T follow their tradition. He rejects a lot of their fundamentals, like being older, being attached to people, etc. and becomes the greatest Jedi because he focuses on his attachment and that love is what saves him and heals the galaxy. He stands poised as a reformer who can re-shape the new Jedi order to be different than the flawed one of the past and break with their silly rules and traditions, so it makes sense from a story point of view that the prequel influence not be felt strongly.

Post
#607548
Topic
The Secret History of Star Wars
Time

Hey guys! Want to see me talk about Episode VII news and rumours with some other Star Wars nerds? Well, you basically get that at this place. But I'm also co-hosting a new Youtube series! Click here for our announcement: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85QkzUVCspE&feature=plcp

We now have four episodes online, and more will be following. So subscribe to us at http://www.youtube.com/redirect?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2FApprenticeNews&session_token=V7nscH-afoZcsSI-Yvwh19YLvV58MTM1Mjk2MjAxNEAxMzUyODc1NjE0

 

Post
#605300
Topic
Save Star Wars Dot Com
Time

His argument is flawed regarding the 1988 Congressional statements.

I omitted parts that were irrelevant, but the part he is quoting that I left out is not a GOTCHA moment. It actually re-inforces what I was arguing. Lucas says "who better than the artist to protect the work" because he felt that the artist wouldn't alter it. Lucas was afraid that corporations owning art would lead to it be altered--which was exactlly what was happening with Turner. So, as an alternative, he proposed artists owning the rights, because they were assumed to be protective of their art more than a corporation. He was never, ever, at any time, advocating an artists right to alter and suppress films. He was simply arguing that artists would be more responsible with film history than businessmen. He's mostly correct with the one exception--himself.

So, this guy is an idiot on multiple levels. He sees what he wants. Although I am flattered that he stalked me so thoroughly. I give him points for effort, but a failing grade for not having logic.

Post
#604269
Topic
Disney Acquires LucasFilm for $4.05 billion, Episode 7 in 2015, 8 and 9 to Follow, New Film Every 2-3 Years
Time

This is a screenshot from the Making of ESB. This is the vintage papers for his treatment for the sequels, circa 1977 or 1978.

And yes, I'm serious. I took that image from Rinzler's sw.com blog.

It's the same as the prequels. He said he had full treatments for 1,2 and 3 since the 70s. His company even said on some occassions he had scripts. But then ten years ago he admitted all his 'treatments' were was some pages of unordered notes.

He no doubt has these for the sequels as well, because he was considering them in the late 1970s and early 1980s. But his actual "treatments" to both seem to just have been him writing "episodes 1,2 3" and "episodes 7,8,9" (and also at one point 10,11,12 as the above shows), on a pad of paper and going to bed. These are the closest to prequel and sequel treatments that have been unearthed so far.

However, given that the first new film is a mere three years away, I am sure Lucas has by now ACTUALLY created treatments, which probably incorporate some of his original notes. However, I don't believe he ever had at any point full, proper story treatments prior to this, especially since he seemed to genuinely believe that there wasn't much story material beyond Episode VI only a few years ago.

Post
#604215
Topic
Disney Acquires LucasFilm for $4.05 billion, Episode 7 in 2015, 8 and 9 to Follow, New Film Every 2-3 Years
Time

The thing about this is that it's incredibly abrupt. It's not surprising, it's just unexpected that it happened today, without any rumblings. A sucker-punch.

But in terms of is it good or bad or will it make the OOT get released? I don't think it changes much.

If you loved the prequels, you could cry foul because "it's George Lucas' baby." But then you would be naive. He didn't solely write ESB, ROTJ, AOTC, and unofficially ROTS, and he didn't direct ESB and ROTJ either. He also didn't have anything to do with 99% of the EU, and he's been pretty hands off with the biggest two SW projects of the last seven years, which is Force Unleashed series and Clone Wars series. But yeah, he had a bit of input, and he's continuing in that capacity as a creative consultant, and based off his treatment ideas. So he's still in the same capacity to a large degree.

If you hated the prequels then this is great news. The prequels were good ideas for movies that were crippled by George Lucas inability to write or direct. This could be the best thing to happen to the series since 1980, and to be honest the acting, writing and directing of stuff like CW and Force Unleashed is pretty well done. So, hey, this could be the prequels you wanted in the first place.

And in terms of the OOT, it would be jumping the gun to make any predictions. My own feeling is that this could be the best thing, because Disney has always been kind to its classics, has always marketed itself based on its legacy, and with Lucas out of the way--he's a creative consultant on the sequels, not on the companies business dealings--there's really nothing holding them back. But then, with 7, 8 and 9 coming REALLY FUCKING SOON, maybe the OOT will take a back burner because they will be concentrating on these new films right away. Or: maybe not. We were always going to get the OOT, it was just a matter of time. Does this move that timeframe up or push it back? 50/50. But I would say it moves it up.

As for the end of fan films this is jumping the gun. Disney is harsher than Lucasfilm in the legal department, yes, but LFL will still retain a level of autonomy, and their fan relations are to a large degree built upon a mutual relationship, whether it's the 501st or whatever. That seems unlikely to go away. Things may change a bit, but I think it's foolish to say this is the end of all that. At the very least, it's up in the air, but more likely it will just undergo a bit of modification when the new management takes over. But from a business perspective they have a great thing going and it doesn't need to change, unless they start losing money, but they won't, and with the new films and business plan they have nothing to worry about.

But the point is this isn't really surpring, this whole move seems downright predictable, but the abruptness of it has thrown us all. But when you really break it down, there is as much pros as cons, and things ought to more or less remain the same, because it's too early to say otherwise in any case.

My two cents.