logo Sign In

zombie84

User Group
Members
Join date
21-Nov-2005
Last activity
12-Jan-2024
Posts
3,557

Post History

Post
#268780
Topic
Prequel Character Names
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/268780/action/topic#268780
Time
I agree that the PT has names as cool and silly as the OT. Mace Windu is just an awesome name, and i rather like Count Dooku, Anakin Skywalker and even stuff like Captain Tarpals. I think the notion that the OT only had "normal" or "cool" names is bullshit: Boba Fett is lame ("boba"?? we accept it as "cool" because the character is cool), and then there is stuff like Sny Snootles, Obi Wan, and Grand Moff Tarkin. Personally, i don't mind any of them. They are supposed to be alien and exotic but also connotative of certain qualities: Greedo is greedy, Han Solo is a loner, Luke Skywalker has his head in the clouds, Leia Organa represents the human rebels in opposition to the artifical Empire, Darth Vader is the dark invader, opposing Obi Wan the "holy one."

The difference between the PT and OT lies solely in the fact that Star Wars utilised ordinary, contemporary names as well. ESB and ROTJ used alien or exotic names exclusively, even in in humans (ie Lando Calrissean), and ROTJ is littered with creatures with correspondingly weird names. However, the core characters from Star Wars remained with their American names, offsetting this. Honestly, thats all there is. Sio Bibble and Boss Nass are completely comparable to Nien Numb and Yoda. The difference is that the main characters are named Luke, Han, Leia and Ben, names that were common--at least in the 1970's--and in fact i know many people today that have these names, and this gave the films a kind of grounded reality and subtle familiarity.
Post
#268458
Topic
70 mm print of the Empire Strikes Back Differences
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/268458/action/topic#268458
Time
Originally posted by: Sluggo
The weird thing about the frame of Luke hanging under Cloud City is not that the dish is absent, but the whole vane where Luke is hanging is in a different spot.


Nice eye. Luke is a foreground element shot against bluescreen i guess, with the entire backdrop including the city being a matte composite. When the Falcon dish miniature element was added, the balance of the image was shifted, and so Luke was moved from a more central position to screen-left in order to balance the dish dominating on screen-right.

Interesting finds all around. I haven't seen the Puggo editions but i am guessing that these are the only alternate-footage clips? Would be nice to also have stuff like the shot of Luke without the early AT-ST comp and the original bacta tank edit.
Post
#268455
Topic
The Puggo Edition - webpage and screenshots (Super 8 transfers - Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/268455/action/topic#268455
Time
Originally posted by: boba feta
Jambe did a little research in this field. Combined with what we know and what The Starkiller has found I guess we have a list that looks something like this:

Star Wars:

Introductory Crawl is Spoken.


ESB:

Video:
The Emporer does not fade in in his communique with Vader.
Millenium Falcon Satellite dish not visible with Luke on weather vane.

Audio
- Han saying 'watch this' as he tries to jump to hyperspace in the asteriod field. Although the dialogue hasn't changed different emphasis are put on certain words."
- Luke - "I don't pick up any life readings" - Different take
- Han - "I'm going back" - Different take
- More rebels calls of 'retreat' when Walkers attack
- Leia "They're getting closer [star destroyers] - Different take - she stutters it twice
- Cloud Car pilots - Different line - will confirm with actual line asap.
- Leia "I know where Luke is" is replaced by "we must go back" or something similar
- C3P0 - new line just before "I thought that hairy beast would be the end of me" - It's something like "I'm glad we are back together"
- The frigate at the end looks decidedly different - i will have to check this.
Cloud City Security - "Any aggressive move will not be tollerated!"
Cloud Cit Security - "Permission granted to land on platform 3-2-7. Any deviattion will" - Han cuts of comms.
Leia - "Lando, hurry up, we've got company!" (as Lando is rescuing Luke from the weathervane)
C3P0- "Get away from there, you don't know how to fix the hyperdrive!


Interesting discoveries. I wonder then if any of these alternate lines appeared in the 70mm mixes? Its obviously based from an earlier pre-35mm mix of the film, as a drastic re-mix such as this would not be performed for a super-8 retail version. I wonder if some of this are from an even earlier work-in-progress mix that pre-dates the 70mm one...
Post
#267813
Topic
OOT has 1 day left
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/267813/action/topic#267813
Time
Same old, same old. You get used to these things. Thank god the internet wasn't around in December of 1977--you think any of this is bad? I guess people forgot about the "empty box" toys. Basically Kenner couldn't make their action figures in time for christmas so Lucasfilm sold empty boxes, with coupons inside that could be traded for the toys once they came out in the new year.
Post
#267811
Topic
The end of Star Wars?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/267811/action/topic#267811
Time
This is something i have been facing for a while now but i only now just realised how imminent it is. I have noticed that since 2005 or so, my interest in Star Wars has been steadily declining, at least as is reflected on the internet. At my peak, circa 2001 or so, I was excited about the prequels, Star Wars was everywhere, i was thinking and writing about the films--both OT and PT--every day and even had briefly took a drink from the EU pool (how bitter it tasted). But ever since the end of 2005--when ROTS came on video and the series truely over--i have noticed a gradual distancing. I used to not mind the prequels but slowly i became more and more bitter about them until i realised in the last year that i really don't like them. PT fanboys began to annoy me to no end, and not only that, they swelled massively in number. At TFN, my Star Wars home since 1998, where i still post with my registered name that has been there since 1999 and racked up 2000 posts or so, things went to hell, and the OT section was overrun by Lucas defenders who slowly drove out all the old-time fans--venturing into the PT forum is like venturing into the Kurtz compound at the end of Apocalypse Now, all soprts of weird ghostly natives standing around and heads on stakes and you know that you are in a place that you should fear. When the GOUT thing hit, it polarised the community to a large degree, and in fact for me it was here that i realised all of my passion and love for Star Wars surrounded the OT. Since then i have slowly drifted from TFN to this place and in the last two months or so i have seldom even posted there. For that matter, here half the time we are discussing technical video matters and such, and the other half we are talking about what went wrong with the PT and how much better the OOT is. In a sense, this place has become, at least for a great many posters such as myself and CO for example, a sort of forum for Star Wars fans suffering from post-traumatic-prequel-stress, trying to analyse and understand how such a series turned to crap and what the hell happened to make such an event happen. But there is very little discussion about the actual films themselves, not even the OOT. And to me this is significant.
This whole thing was made obvious to me because today i checked TFN out of curiosity and there was a private message from someone wondering in bewilderment why such an halfway-intelligent person like me stays with TFN and why didn't i come over to the Outter Rim Seiges boards? My first thought was "sigh...why bother?" Even at TFN, where the content of the films is discussed 99% of the times, i have not much more to say. Most of my posts there have simply degraded to defending the OOT where necessary and reminding new fans of the original context of the films. I guess the reason i stick around is to not let the place be totally run by PT-fanboys and warp new fans.

But really, i have nothing more to say about the films. Since 1998 i have discussed every aspect of both the PT and OT, i have talked about every subject and interpretation at least ten times over, and that previous sense of discovery, of hearing a new viewpoint or aspect that i hadn't considered, has long since evaporated. And i know i'm not the only one feeling this way. The period of 1998-2005 was explosive for fandom because it was the era when people first started getting on the internet and discussing things and being exposed to new and shared ideas and it was simultaneously the era of new Star Wars films. But now both of those eras are gone. Theres very little to learn about the OOT--i am always amazed at learning a piece of info i hadn't heard before but these are slim pickin's--and about the PT for that matter.

In short, what i am saying is is this the end of the massive outpour of Star Wars fandom? Will we be headed to that same downtime that existed after the OT was done, that big 1985-1989 dry spell? Obviously there will be EU--but i hate the EU. And i think most fans do as well. The only thing left is the TV series, which i admit i am curious about, but i still dread it will just be a Star Trek/ Firefly clone of some kind, with all the stupid developments of the PT intact. I think its a very telling sign of the fundamental differences between us two groups that most PT fans are EU fans as well, or at least are accepting of EU, while most OT fans hate the EU, or at least don't care much for it. PT fans have six films, a whole bunch of TV series now, a shitload of books and comics and god knows what else--I have three films, only two of which i truely love, the other which i tolerate as the conclusion to those films. I know i will always be involved in Star Wars fandom in some minor way, and come back to posting things from time to time, but i have a feeling that for me, and i think for many others, we will be heading back to that quiet, just-enjoy-the-OT fandom that we had around the early 90's.
Post
#267805
Topic
OOT has 1 day left
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/267805/action/topic#267805
Time
The 1995 Faces set was limited too--they stopped production in January of 1996. I remember seeing leftover copies being sold in bargain bins in blockbuster in 1997 for 1.99 when the SE tapes were about to come out.

Limited time refers to production, not store visibility, because technically you could still buy them in second-hand stores anyway. Even Disney i believe doesn't literally pull them from shelves. Its standard practice that "limited availability" means production is stopped at a certain point, and since this is usually in reference to a relatively high-demand product, it doesn't stick around much longer than that.
Post
#267804
Topic
Q: Death Star viewed from Endor
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/267804/action/topic#267804
Time
Originally posted by: SilverWook
Some of that debris had to be burning up in the upper atmosphere afterward. Matter of fact I recall a fansite speculating the DS II detonation potentially did Endor a whole lot of harm!


Yeah--it would have plunged it into a nuclear winter that killed them all! Its called the theory of the Endorian Holocaust, and i believe it has a rather lengthy entry in wookiepedia.

Post
#267486
Topic
What do you love about Star Wars?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/267486/action/topic#267486
Time
Originally posted by: ferris209
The thing that always bothered me about the original Ewok song is that it roughly translates to the Ewoks proclaiming their freedom and newfound rights from oppression. Correct me if I am wrong, but weren't the Ewoks unaware that they were oppressed in the first place. They just lived in trees and they had nothing the Empire wanted, Leia and C3-PO had to tell them what was going on before they would even help. After all this, why are the Ewoks so happy about destroying something that didn't even effect their way of life at all, other then the troopers taking over some of their land. They even had a song all wrote up within hours of ending the battle. I guess they were going to be blown up after the DSII was completed. but they didn't know that at any time.


Yeah, the Ewoks in the final film really have not motive to fight or celebrate. You get the impression that once the Death Star was complete the Imperials all would have left and life would have continued on, totally unaffected. In the first drafts Endor was one of the moons of Coruscant, and was being deforested and harvested for natural resources--which is why Palpatine calls it a "sanctuary moon" in the final film, even though its not. It was supposed to be a sanctuary for the overpopulated Coruscant, which indeed would give the Ewoks a reason to save themselves from the invaders.
Post
#267050
Topic
Superman 2 The Donner Cut
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/267050/action/topic#267050
Time
Originally posted by: C3PX
No! Not the fortress battle! Does this mean they cut out the giant celephane "S".

That was perhaps one of the biggest "What the heck" moments in all of movie history. Family guy made a funny joke about this sometime ago.


Yeah, its just a brief example of Lester's complete misunderstanding of the Superman mythos, contrasted by Donner where he knew it down to a tee. It is in minor form in Superman II because it was balanced out by Donner's wonderful footage but in Superman III when Lester had total control you can really see the elements that he was trying to bring to the series. The giant celophane S was one of his lamest inventions, so much that family guy made an entire re-constuction of the climax of Superman II where everyone stops to contemplate the logic of throwing a giant celophane S from his chest.
Post
#266767
Topic
To those who bought the Limited Edition Lord of the Rings DVDs...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/266767/action/topic#266767
Time
The EE are a mixed blessing. Some scenes really add a lot to the films, while others you get the impression that there was a reason why they were left out in the first place. You have to remember these are not for the average viewer--the theatrical cuts remain the definitive versions of the films and Jacksons own preferred directors cuts--the extended editions are for those who want more, who are willing to delve into a longer and richer world. Overall, the full extra-long versions are very engrossing, although to do TTT and ROTK in one sittting can test the limits of one's patience, running nearly four hours each--the longer and more uneven pacing doesn't help when you are at the 3 1/2 hour mark.
Some have recommended splitting it into a mini-series--each film has an intermission, and the edit is constructed the way an intermission should, with a key dramatic point and the seminal story change occuring at the point of break. Thus, each half is satisfactory and has its own arc. Watching the films as six 90-120 minute segments rather than three 220-280 minute segments may be preferrable to some.

The EE-only big box sets are also great for their plentiful extras, pretty much the most extensive series of special editions ever made.
Post
#266685
Topic
To those who bought the Limited Edition Lord of the Rings DVDs...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/266685/action/topic#266685
Time
Originally posted by: C3PX
Yeah, I know what you are talking about. They could easily just put both versions of the opening and branch it to the rest of the movie.


Yup. Sometimes scenes are not just extended or not included in the theatrical cut but instead are re-edited--in this case, to preserve the editing of the theatrical cut, two entire versions of the scenes are included, even if the difference between them is only one or two shots, and then branched. I imagine that the whole ten minute opening scene of FOTR is two seperate branching files, even if much of the scene is common between the two versions. Even more drastic use of branching than this has been put to use before, the best example i can think of being David Fincher's extended semi-directors-cut of Alien 3, which keeps almost all of the material of the theatrical version but reworks and re-edits much of it instead of merely inserting additional scenes, as is the case, for example, for the branching Aliens directors cut.
Post
#266671
Topic
Superman 2 The Donner Cut
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/266671/action/topic#266671
Time
Yup, the earth spinning doesn't make sense in Superman 1 either. Technically, as he is pulling the now-alive Lois out of her car, the nuclear missile is still sailing around, which he never re-saves--that was the whole point of the original dillema, he could save the world from the missile or he could chose to save one human whom he loved, and of course he had to go with the human race as a whole. The reason, however, that audiences accepted it is that the matter of Lois dying is such a huge emotional shocker and Reeves performance so harrowing that you truely do believe that the man's willpower is capable of anything at that state. Superman II by comparison is an intellectual one, where everything is already fixed, he sits down, thinks about things, and then decides that reversing time would be a good idea.

The problem with the Superman II ending is this: its not the real intended ending. Lets say that it is ending v0.5. The original plan for the two films were as follows: Superman 1 would not have any of Lois being killed by the earthquake, the climax would be Superman racing to save the missile. He throws it into space, where it detonates and releases the Phantom Zone prisoners, who yell "freedom!" before advancing on earth--cut to title: "To be continued next year in Superman II!" Bum Bum BUUUUUUM! Basically it was the prologue of the Donner Cut of Superman II. Then Superman II would end as the Donner Cut did, with Superman reversing time. But after they abandoned Superman II 3/4 through shooting and focused only on Superman 1, they realised that the reversing-time ending would better suit Superman 1. Thus, the whole structure of the ending of part 1 and the beginning and end of part 2 was totally re-written. But then Donner quit/was fired before they could come back to complete Superman II. So the ending was never completed. What we have on Superman II The Richard Donner Cut is the original ending, but technically Superman 1 would have to be re-edited to be in its original configuration. I don't know how Donner would have solved the memory thing--the "magic kiss" of Lester's is not so bad, but probably Donner would just have Lois with the knowledge that Clark is Superman. But anyway, Lester's ending is not the true ending either, and in wanting to use as much Donner material as possible, Donner's original ending was kept intact, even if it raises some plot questions and would have been thrown away anyway.
Post
#266589
Topic
Info Wanted: Question about 1980 uncut Empire
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/266589/action/topic#266589
Time
Rancher, you "know without a doubt that what you saw was true" as much as Puggo did. Its called a false memory, and its a common, everyday occurance. You remember seeing footage of the Rebels fighting the Wompas, but no such footage ever existed, nor found its way into a film. You are remembering things that are impossible because they were never filmed. It is common to mis-remember things from your childhood--things you swear you saw, that even when you remember it now are there clear as day. I'll repeat, its common, and there are various people within this very thread that "know they saw without a doubt" a certain thing, but years later was just proved to be a delusion. The cut you saw, being 70mm, was indeed different from 35mm prints, but in extremely minor and insignificant ways, thus perhaps planting the seed in your brain that the film was different but then being confused with information gleaned elsewhere. The wompa scenes appeared in trading cards and in the comic books, in stills and publicity photos, they are even prominently featured in the Star Wars Trilogy Arcade Game shooter from 2001 or so. I went into this before about how the inclusion of such scenes as this and General Veers death would require massive measures to be taken, and would not have accidentally "gotten out" and only witnessed by a nine year old and his buddy. The Bacta tank sequence appears to have a shot missing which radically changes the structure, and there are aleternate shot composites and missing wipes, so I'm sure these made you realise that something about the 70mm was changed but in trying to determine what it was your mind just remembered all kinds of stuff that was never in the film in the first place.
Post
#266514
Topic
What do you love about Star Wars?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/266514/action/topic#266514
Time
To me, when i hear "what do you love about Star Wars" i immediately think of Star Wars, the film. Then i remember, "oh yeah, its also a series" and so i remember to include Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi in there. I guess that tells you what Star Wars means to me--in other words, the original trilogy with the original film as its fundamental base.

Why do I love Star Wars? The same reasons everyone else does: incredible imagination, an interesting plot, great action scenes and special effects and loveable characters. Basically, thats why the film(s) are successful. You could probably analyse it as a four-stage design of success:

Firstly, because its exciting. Chases, explosions, shootouts, swordfights, absolutely fantastic special effects--these are the reasons why we are all initially captivated by the film. Its designed in a very calculated graphical sense to be visually stimulating. The film is filled with imagination and action, with aliens and creatures and spaceships that travel at the speed of light and doomsday weapons that blow up entire planets, and its presented at a very quick pace--the audience always has their attention stimulated.
Secondly, the storyline--a fantastic tale that is ingenious for its use of archetypal themes and plot points and updated science-fiction/fantasy interpretations; you got everything from knights of the round table to John Ford's old west to Buster Crabbe and the Flash Gordon serials, and they are all weaved together in a seamless blend of archaic and modern storytelling. All these dressings however still would not be effective if the true through-line of the film, the rise of Luke Skywalker, was not compelling. The back-story and environment are complicatedly designed so as to be rich and full but the heart of the film is quite simple and easy to follow.
Which brings us to the third point, the characters. This is the true hook of the films. All the fancy special effects, stimulating explosions and intricate plotting would be for naught if the characters weren't compelling, and this is where the original trilogy leaves behind the prequels. The characters were warm and funny, fully rounded and three-dimensional, written with wit and intelligence and acted with realism and sincerity. They were relatable and believable. This above all else is why the film was successful. They are the heart of the story, and in spite of the over-the-top design of the film, the characters are so sharply defined that are able to penetrate through the overwhelming material and become the focus of the film.
Fourthly, the spiritual themes and optimistic message made you feel good. At its most basic, Star Wars was about believing in yourself, about the power of positive thinking--Luke uses the Force because he believes he can, he defeats Darth Vader because he believes in himself. Star Wars, at the end of the day, was the ultimate feel good movie, the story of the triumph of good over evil. This is what kept people coming back when other great character-driven action films faded away, to delve into the mythology, and to be re-affirmed in their belief in the world.

All these things combined made the film a huge hit with audiences in the historical context in which it was released, but these things remain to this day as the basic formula for an audience pleaser. A clever and universal story, well told and well crafted, with terrific characters and optimistic spiritual themes, filled with action and excitement and imagination and with eye-popping visual effects. What more could you possibly want?
Post
#266508
Topic
To those who bought the Limited Edition Lord of the Rings DVDs...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/266508/action/topic#266508
Time
There are no changes to the films themselves. What you get is a feature-length on-set documentary about each installment on the second disk, and then the first disk is a double-sided one which contains both the theatrical cut and the extended cut of each film--the films are split with an intermission the same way the original extended editions were, with part 1 on side A and part 2 on side B, and the two versions are both it fit on the single disk via seamless branching. Bitrate wise, they are identical, and FOTR theatrical cut is even a better than the original 2001 version since compression technology is so much better now.
Post
#266502
Topic
Superman 2 The Donner Cut
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/266502/action/topic#266502
Time
I loved it. I liked the Lester cut as well, but i was amazed at how much more mature, sophisticated, gripping and darker Donner's version was--its much more of a character piece. Of course due to the still-incomplete nature of the edit there are still a few plot holes that can never be filled (most of it revolving around the reversing-time original ending) but its still much more preferrable to Lester's version, which now comes off as a cheesy TV-movie adaptation of Donner's.
Post
#266471
Topic
Info Wanted: Question about 1980 uncut Empire
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/266471/action/topic#266471
Time
Originally posted by: rancher
Do you know anything about this?

...most of these original production scripts actually got sold off (not auctioned) starting roughly Summer-Fall 1980. The SW fan club was given first shot at them & then they appeared in small 1/8th sized page ads (bottom of page & near the back the mag.) in the popular sci-fi film magazines at the time in the U.S./Canada (not sure about the rest of the world) until the scripts got sold out. He thought that he likely saw the ad. in STARLOG magazine (Anybody have some issues from this period?) etc.

Something else to add to this the 4th draft-the public version (the pricing was: signed (most expensive), then 4th draft upwards it got cheaper) were all released to the public in 1980. The 1st. wave of these drafts were indeed original copies used during the production/filming by cast & crew. A few were signed as well. The 2nd. wave being reproductions (lower price) of these scripts when the originals that were made available became sold out for a limited time.

If you can verfiy the info. above it would be interesting to know what you find. It may be useful information for yourself if any of it is true. That is if your have too much time on you hands, got those scripts on your mind & don't mind searching for those wasted years. I know that last bit barely makes sense, but I'm guessing you can figure out the secret nod.



I had not heard that before but it seems likely. The problem is that a lot of collectors are not necessarily the type of people who really care all that much about the history of the film in the same way that we do--perhaps for those interested in the fourth draft, but for the fifth/shooting draft, a lot of more casual fans just want basically a transcription of the film that they can re-read in place of seeing the movie again, and this is especially enticing when it is autographed by cast and crew. My point is that very few people would be willing to scan or OCR an entire script and post it online, especially when the fifth draft is supposedly available commerically from Lucasfilm. I wonder then if these are the real shooting scripts or the "fake" ones that Lucasfilm put out--these semi-real "final drafts" were officially designated by Lucasfilm as "Public Version"'s. In any case, i am guessing that this contest give-away was the reason how the fourth draft found its way online.

The particular script being auctioned off on Ebay right now for $2000 may very well be one from this series of autographed production scripts from 1979--it certainly looks like its at least a few decades old. Its a shame about the price though; its expensive because of the autographs, not the content itself, and its hard to even verify firstly if this is the script we are looking for and secondly if these autographs, old as they are, are indeed authentic.