yotsuya

RogueLeader said:

A lot of my opinions have already been reflected in previous posts, but I’ll share a critique and a compliment.

I know it is a cliché, but I think Boba’s character change could’ve been better explained, and been interesting, if he got amnesia while he was in the Sarlacc. I know Legends had this idea that sarlaccs could assimilate the thoughts and memories of their victims, so there could’ve been a lore explanation to it. So when he wakes up in the desert, without his armor, he has no idea who he is or how he really got there. Then he begins living with the Tuskens and the story could play out similarly.

But when he saves Fennec, she recognizes him and reveals him who he is. This would give us an opportunity to have flashbacks of Boba Fett in his prime hunting days, which we’ve actually never seen in live action if you think about it. Boba really doesn’t do much in the OT, so it could’ve been a good opportunity to see where Boba got his reputation as a “cold-blooded killer”, and the greatest bounty hunter in the galaxy.

And more importantly to the narrative, we can see how Boba reacts to the contrast of who he used to be and who he is now, and see how he integrates his new life with his old one.

But I do think the story works well as-is, but I think it would’ve helped if we got a better understanding of who he was before he fell into the pit to understand how the desert really changed him.

On a positive note, I’ve liked some of the direction in the past two episodes. Bryce Dallas Howard did a great job with the last episode, and the long take in the lounge on ringworld made me raise up in my seat. Seeing more creative direction in Star Wars is exactly what I want to see. Because right now, I feel like we’re getting some good Star Wars television, but does it really stand on its own as good television?

I also enjoyed the Cobb Vanth and Cad Bane duel. I appreciate how Filoni stretched it out, allowing their to be these awkward pauses between their replies to build up tension. As well as the direction with the eyes, showing the Deputy’s nervousness and Cobb’s concern for his Deputy, which made him vulnerable to Cad’s quick draw. It reminded me a lot of how Filoni did Maul and Obi-Wan’s duel in Rebels. It’s clear character through action.

Star Wars television so far has felt pretty experimental in a few different ways (like some of the big narrative choices this season), but I hope they keep pushing projects to take more risks and not be afraid to stray off the path of the formula.

I love your idea. That plus a couple extra episodes to better build the current conflict and make it feel more tense. Plus I feel that if anyone is watching this who did not watch The Mandalorian, they are missing the entire arc of how Boba got his armor back. I love what they are doing, but it could have been better and you have nailed the biggest issue.

Though I do think the series made it clear that Boba is suffering from Sarlacc stomach acid burns. That plus laying in the sun after the Jawas stole his armor could explain why he can’t remember how he got out or where his armor is. It is kind of like George’s PT story telling, the clues are there, but it needs to be a bit more explicit for most people to get it on the first viewing.

Cthulhunicron said:

rocknroll41 said:

I gotta say: I’m really starting to hate the spice arc in the boba show. It rips off dune, for starters (which starwars already does too much as is). Also it makes Tattooine more important than it should be. What made Tattooine cool before is that it was a backwater world. The biggest thing tho is that why would boba, a crime lord, want to stop CRIME?

I’ve been saying this since they announced the show. If Boba Fett is going to be a crime lord, how can he be the protagonist of a show? The protagonist is supposed to be someone the audience can root for. If he’s a crime lord, supposedly he’d be committing crimes, ie doing cruel and unethical things for profit.

It’s like Disney wants to have their cake and eat it, too, without understanding the consequences of what they’re doing. They know people like Boba, so they gave him his own show. They also know people like the idea of Boba being a badass outlaw, but the two ideas are mutually exclusive. So we end up with this awkward show where Boba Fett is a crime lord who is also somehow honorable and noble, and doesn’t seem interested in committing any crimes other than collecting tribute from casinos. He also seeks help from Cob Vanth, an officer of the law, so he’s apparently a crime lord who also requests help from the authorities.

They could have side stepped this entire problem if they just kept him as a bounty hunter who is now working for the new republic, bringing in the galaxy’s worst criminals. That way he can be a likeable protagonist who is also a morally grey badass.

I think there have been plenty of instances of likable bad guys that they have built a story around. Sopranos for instance. But his change come via the Tusken Raiders and his time with them. That is pretty clear. Plus he has lost his armor.

BedeHistory731 said:

MalaStrana#2 said:

Cthulhunicron said:

Apparently.

I’m of the the opinion that as much as I love Star Wars, it’s kind of limited. I’ve mentioned this on forums before, and people have responded by saying that the galaxy far far away has all this unlimited potential for different stories. But it really seems like all anybody wants is endless stories about Luke, Han, and Leia.

This is such a disgrace. Disney is not killing SW: it’s the ones who praise this shit who are responsible.

Wow, I didn’t think you’d resort to insulting people who like this series. But here we are!

I recognize that it isn’t quite as good as The Mandalorian, but it is still a good series. I think a lot will tie together in the finale. And considering how much time Boba Fett took up in Season 2, it was nice to Din on screen. It had a point as it setup his return to Help Boba. It could have pulled him out of nowhere, but what is the fun of that.

And isn’t anyone thinking about all the fun twists by having Boba Fett, Ahsoka Tano, and Luke Sykwalker in the same place? Filoni has quite a long trail of stories that can make for some interesting twists. They could really complicate the finale. The main saga is full of interconnections and links and Filoni crafted the same sort of thing in the 5 previous series. We are following a parallel but intersecting story that goes from the prequels to the sequels. And a lot of what Filoni has done came from George. Finding out Darth Maul (or just Maul now) was still alive and finding a new way was something that George insisted Filoni include in the Clone Wars.

When you have so much interlinking, it isn’t fan service continue what you started. Fan service is a something that is shoehorned in that isn’t really part of the story. A prime example is Dr. Evazan and Ponda Baba in Rogue one is exactly that. What are they even doing there? Is there any point to their appearance? At least R2 and Threepio later have a purpose, to hint that their role is about to start and we might see Leia. But those two are useless. They had to hop a transport to Mos Eisley immediately after we see them an that just doesn’t feel right.

Also, easter eggs aren’t fan service. They lie in the background and don’t impact the story. There are a lot of them sprinkled throughout the saga. We had a lot of them in Solo. Especially in Dryden Vos’s ship. And then you have intersecting stories where a significant character from one series or film shows up in another series or film. Filoni does a lot of that. And never without purpose or just to please fans. No, he always does it with the story in mind. Cad Bane, Luke, Ahsoka, Grogu, Din, they all are in this series for a reason and the finale will likely reveal the reason. Fennic Shand and Cad Bane get a rematch. So that makes a lot of sense. How the others will link we don’t yet know. But it could be epic. That some are writing it off as fan service ignores the quality of writing we have already seen that has been epic.

I disagree with so many posts above.

First. What is fan service? When it is bad and when is it good? In a hugely interconnected universe like Star Wars you are going to have old things show up. One of the few things I hate about the prequels is the lack of OT and PT aliens. Too much effort was made to make it different without throwing in a few familiar faces. So you can go too far the other way. If Fan Service must always be a bad thing than not every appearance of something familiar is Fan Service.

Also, too many are objecting that a couple of episodes that aren’t focusing on the titular character. This is not an episodic series, but a larger story told in multiple episodes. Boba Fett’s story starts with episode 1 of season 2 of The Mandalorian. Boba Fett already invaded that series so this is just continuing that story and we have episodes that focus on Boba’s past and now episodes exploring what Din Djarin is doing. Why? That is the question you should be asking yourself. This story is building to a conclusion that reportedly is epic (and we shall soon see if it truly is) and they are gathering characters for that conclusion. What form that will take we don’t know, but there are all sorts of interesting possibilities.

And the big question from the end of The Mandalorian season 2 was how the series can continue without Grogu. The series was really Long Wolf and Cub set in Star Wars and leaving Grogu with Luke for too long ruins the dynamic of the series. And Grogu’s ties to Din Djarin pose an issue for Luke. He has learned from Yoda. He has likely learned a few things from Ahsoka (it is obvious they did not just meet). We don’t know what he may have already found in the post Empire world about the Jedi Training at the Temple on Coruscant. What we do have is Luke in TLJ saying that the TPM era Jedi were flawed. So does Luke learn from Grogu, or does he cling to the TPM era Jedi teachings? Does Kylo Ren fall because Luke let himself be blinded by the idea of restoring the Jedi, or will Grogu teach him that it is not attachments that are the danger, it is the fear of loss that is the danger.

So there are a lot of great story telling possibilities here. It does not all have to revolve around Boba Fett as long as this series is revolving around Boba’s efforts to become and secure and defend being Daimyo of Tatooine. If that is his intent as we saw at the end of The Mandalorian Season 2, then the story telling is spot on. You have a bounty hunter who has survived for a decade since he fell in the Sarlacc and been rescued from the desert by Tusken Raiders aiming much higher and striving for something different. So many of the complaints I see about Boba’s characterization are tied to his new line of work differing form his old line of work.

I think some of the different threads of story will come together in the finale. And we will see if it will be carried on for a second season. We know The Mandalorian Season 3 is on the horizon.

Also, complaining about animated characters and how they are transferred to live action is sometimes silly. Cad Bane is blue. He is represented by a man in a mask like his fellow Duros were in ANH and his skin color is in line with the other live action appearances of his race. Same with Ahsoka. I wasn’t very pleased with how she looked in Rebels (a lot of the character design in that series was very stylized) and her live action appearance here is closer to her original look in The Clone Wars. Plus it is live action so it is bound to be different. I somewhat expect Asoka to show up next week and for Cad Bane to be defeated and escape. His appearance here is very organic (other than he is really old at this point) because this is the sort of thing he does and it makes sense for the Pike Syndicate to hire him.

I think the series could have been better arranged. I think they should have started it out with Boba Fett escaping the Sarlaac and just done a chronological story instead of flashbacks. I think there should have been some other scenes of Fennic recruiting muscle in the last two episodes and saved some of Din’s story for the his next season. But overall I like where the story is going and I love the characters and how things are intertwining. Star Wars is all about things being interconnected and I love that Filoni (who has taken many lessons from George himself) crafts such excellent long term arcs. There are still a lot of unanswered questions in the post ROTJ world that I think these series are going to address.

fmalover said:

I’ve seen the screenshots of Luke’s appearance in TBoBF, and one thing that bothers me is that they made him look younger than in RotJ, even though it takes place a few years after the Battle of Endor.

They didn’t. Take a look at the movies he was in around 1994. I googled that the other day and found it a surprisingly exact match to how he looked then.

And Mark is a voice actor. A very good one. I believe the voice is his, but they have adjusted it to sound younger. I found his appearance in the episode to be very well done.

Mocata said:

Han’s blaster in the original movie is wildly inconsistent, from Greedo’s death to the massive explosions on the hangar bay walls. As for Uncle Owen, I always assumed they just started a fire to cover their tracks.

Chewie was shooting the Stormtroops with the Falcon’s gun. There are more shots than Han is firing and from a different angle. I had never thought of that, but someone around here brought it up.

I think the comparison image proves beyond any doubt that that didn’t ruse anything from TPM. Most likely it is a CG background. The obviously have the tools to do this as the episodes are full of CG backgrounds.

But a note on reusing old CG items. As long as you have software that can read the files, you can use old CG materials. The B5 people have been doing so. And that is going from Amiga to modern systems. So there is no issue. And where ILM crafted a lot of the software themselves, it is very likely that they can use anything from the archives if they want. Also very likely is that the old CG parts were deemed too low quality and were updated or totally recreated. Hard to say unless you know someone from ILM. My bet is that they just analyzed TPM and made everything new. That would likely be the easiest option.

I think the two series are too intertwined to really separate. You can’t tell the story of Boba Fett without season 2 of The Mandalorian. So it makes sense that we get a step forward for Din Djarin in Boba Fett. This is really a hallmark of Filoni’s story telling. it was also common in the Russel T. Davis Doctor Who seasons. Blink being a truly outstanding one. And having watched a lot of relatively modern TV lately, I haven’t had any problem with the story telling style. Book of Boba Fett has been one of the better series lately.

Some of the comments mystify me. Some make sense.

First, perhaps it would be useful if everyone knew what the term Daimyo means. It is a feudal lord in Japan equivalent of the English Baron. In Japanese history Daimyos were very independent. Sometimes working for the Emperor or Shogun and sometimes against. In the Warring States Period, it was the Daimyos who were at war.

Second, the Mod street gang. Seriously? Why does this not fit? How are their mods less shiny than Anakin’s first artificial hand? And what about the droids? Weren’t C-3PO, R2-D2, R5-D4, and other droids shiny and colorful? And why is wrong with those glorious 1950’s colors? This seems exactly the sort of thing you’d find in a big city on backwater world. These kids are trying to emulate the more prosperous centers like Coruscant.

And I fail to see any problem if the prequel aesthetic is included. Most of Boba’s lines were delivered by Daniel Logan. And his portrayal is critical to understanding the character as more than just a bounty hunter with a reputation for disintegrations. The prequels are a huge part of Star Wars, as are the sequels. That is the canon this fits with. There is plenty of glitz in there. And even if you want to stick to the OT, the Death Star and the Rebel Blockade Runner were nice, clean, new, and shiny. The light sabers were silver if not chrome. So there is plenty of bits of shininess in the Star Wars galaxy. These kids just have put it together. Also, don’t forget that older special effects hated anything shiny, but we are past that now. The Razor Crest was beaten and battered, but it was silver and shiny as well. Just because Luke drove the equivalent of a rusty pickup does not mean kids in the city will be happy with the same aesthetic.

Now their chase through the city was a bit odd, until you realize that these kids are new to this and their bikes are not supped up enough (they look cool more than being fast - something that works for some) and they are chasing someone in a standard speeder. So this is a chase by a bunch of amateurs. Quite different from the chase we got in Solo, which was indeed more exciting. It felt more real than if it had been faster and more exciting.

And Boba Fett is trying to reinvent himself. The way he acted with Din Djarin in The Mandelorian was a huge tell. He helped Din rescue a baby Jedi to deliver to the Jedi. I think we all know how Boba feels about Jedi. So this characterization is not some new twist. That twist started the moment Boba appeared as he watched Din. He didn’t rush in and take his armor. His new goal of respect was already running and he behaved in The Mandelorian exactly like he is behaving in this series. And if you have seen how gangsters build their empires, there are two ways - by force or by respect. Boba is out to earn loyalty not just blast people. He is still willing to do that as this last episode proves, but he is more interested in building up a team loyal to him than he is in just killing. Mercy goes a long way to do that. He recruits the mods because he sees they have something he can use.

We never get any real indication of Boba Fett’s personality in his original appearances. And if you are taking anything from the EU you are doing yourself a disservice. This Boba Fett was never going to be like that because that characterization has been set aside in favor of exploring Jango’s clone son. If you think they weren’t going to do that you missed Filoni’s name all over this series. He already explored young bounty hunter Boba Fett and this picks up that character exploration after he escaped the Sarlacc.

So if you can’t stand the PT, The Clone Wars, The Bad Batch, or Rebels, this series is not for you because it is continuing what they started. It will bring in Prequel aesthetics. It will tie in with Daniel Logan’s portrayal and Boba’s appearance in Clone Wars. That is a given and that appears to have escaped some people because that is behind a lot of the complaints. You aren’t going to get a series that ignores the prequels or sequels. They are canon and the series is going to include those in their aesthetic and their story telling. So commenting that the mod kids are copying the glitz of Coruscant, Canto Bight, and Hosnian Prime (not to mention all the other prosperous worlds) like kids do makes perfect sense. They fight right in with Queen Amidala’s ship, Senatator Padme’s ships, and the Naboo starfighter. Not everything in Star Wars needs to be run down and ancient.

When it comes to the heroes killing people, I think George is correct. It comes down to the 6 humans killed on the Death Star. 2 in the command center and 4 in the detention center. Other than that it was all stormtroopers. Now, the bad guys killed a lot of people, but they are bad guys. I think what he meant was the good guys shouldn’t kill people. But when you think about it, all those stormtroopers were people. And the people in the ships and the people in the Death Star… but they are faceless. And they were all working to kill more faceless good guys. Basically the Empire made the first move by destroying Alderaan and the billions of people there, so even after all those Star Destroyers and two Death Stars, the Empire has still killed billions more than the good guys did.

Anakin Starkiller said:

Fang Zei said:

Anyone else remember when Labyrinth of Evil came out right before the final episodes of the Tartakovsky clone wars and we basically got to see the EU contradict itself in real time?

See this is why Doctor Who doesn’t do canon.

Do you guys think Lucas had any intention of ever making a Sequel trilogy between 1983 and 2010?

It seems to me like it was something he abandoned with RotJ and only started exploring the concept in the lead-up to the buyout thinking if they were gonna do it anyway might as well do it right. I mean, this article makes it clear he hired someone else to write, something he never did on the Prequels (besides a bit of help from Jonathan Hale on AotC, which I somehow doubt helped much). Also worth noting that his Sequels seamlessly evolved into the ones we got through a standard pre-production process.

So yeah, in summary, I don’t think there ever really was a “George Lucas Sequel Trilogy” so much as there was George Lucas as a creative consultant during the pre-production for TFA.

That article’s great, btw. Very comprehensive.

I think Lucas was thinking of the Sequel Trilogy between 1983 and 1999. Sometime between 1999 and 2005 he shelved it and only brought it out again about the time he started thinking of selling Lucasfilm. and while I do like the story setup he had in mind, his idea of Whills and Midichlorians was pretty dumb. That isn’t what Star Wars is about. It is about the people. The Force works better as a mystery. Though I do like his explanation as a quasi-science idea behind it, he created a modern sci-fi myth and you don’t explain too much in a myth.

Fang Zei said:

yotsuya said:

From several comments I’ve read about what George intended if he made a sequel trilogy, was it really Disney who pushed the EU to Legends, or was that from George? It happened after the purchase, but so did the real development of the sequel trilogy. The way I’m reading the events is that this was an internal Lucasfilm dictate because the films trump the books and related materials.

The 2008 Clone Wars set a major precedent when it basically disregarded the entire continuity of the 2002-2005 clone wars multimedia project.

So yeah, I think it’s fair to say that even if George had been more directly involved with Episode VII he still wouldn’t have felt beholden to the existing EU in any way.

You know, I’ve watched both and I don’t see it as that different. From the start until the shot where the light in the tower goes out, the 2003 series is set before anything in the 2008 series. Only that last portion, which takes place on the eve of Ep III, isn’t completely in line, and even then, it isn’t far off. It isn’t nearly as far off as the Legends origin story of Han Solo by A.C. Crispin vs. the origin story in Solo. To me it doesn’t feel like they threw it out as much as they had spent several years developing these characters and had a slightly different take on things. And even then, I think most of the 2003 series still works. But Clone Wars 2008 seasons 1-6 take place between those two sections of Clone Wars 2003. It is only season 7 that overlaps with the last section of Clone Wars 2003.

Fascinating. Pretty much what my understanding has been.

From several comments I’ve read about what George intended if he made a sequel trilogy, was it really Disney who pushed the EU to Legends, or was that from George? It happened after the purchase, but so did the real development of the sequel trilogy. The way I’m reading the events is that this was an internal Lucasfilm dictate because the films trump the books and related materials.

I thought it was a great start. Perhaps too much time spent on back story and not enough current, but I’ve noticed lots of series tend to be slow and heavy as they set things up these days. The Mandelorian got to it later. But I also think that setting up how Fett got out and lost his armor was a big question lingering from The Mandelorian. So now that the setup is out of the way, I hope it gets into the trouble he is getting himself into.

Also, Fett never seemed the kind of guy who was out to cause fear. He was out to get his quarry and if sometimes they got disintegrated, he still got them. Not someone you want to be after you, but also just one bounty hunter. So someone who wants to get him out of the way would send a group.

I was very happy with the episode and enjoyed it. I hope the story evolves and gets better. This was a great setup but I don’t think it quite followed the quality of story from The Mandelorian, but it had a few things to answer as we get to know this iconic character better.

As for Morrison, Jeremy Bulloch was the tallest of the actors to done the costume for the OT. The others were similar in build to Morrison and now Danial Logan. Neither are actually the right age for Fett in this time period, but Morrison with the scarring feels right in the role. I’ve also noticed how similar his voice is to Wingreen’s in the original TESB audio.

This seems to be echoing that other thread over in the Original Trilogy topic about George being a revisionist.

I think the reality is that George is a story developer and he has a lot of things in his head and when he is asked, he gives what is there now, not the whole story of how he got there. Because that is very fluid. I think what is in those treatments would have been very fluid and would have been developed into something a bit different.

Each trilogy has its pluses and minuses. The OT is the oldest so we have spent the most time digging into it. The PT was very controversial when it came out and now things have evened out. This year marked as long between ANH and TPM as TPM and the present. When the ST is as old these fiery topics will have likewise calmed down.

All movies go through much the same development process that isn’t over until they make the final edit. The ST was just a normal 3 movie development process. It is what Hollywood does. It is what George does. There were things he might have changed up until the last edit. What matters is the final cut.

Joel said:

Has everyone seen this?

A 60fps, AI-enhanced 4k Holiday Special appears to be in the works. I’ve been wanting to do a 60fps conversion but didn’t know how to start.

The parts that were shot on NTSC Video are astonishing. Really jaw-dropping! The bits from film, on the other hand, look like someone forgot to turn off the motion smoothing on their new TV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=DUwNi8DxdNc&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR1diK-LDUbePLXchXO59JerZv6AdYKOd1gDFGpr9eo6blpPPWr1X-5SEEs

That is where an edit would be good. Lift the shots from 4K77 and crop them to match the what was used.

SparkySywer said:

Stardust1138 said:

SparkySywer said:

act on instinct said:

Can never get over the line of thinking that because Lucas had multiple ideas for the sequels that means he had x number of alternate versions, the creative process aside along with the fact that these are three movies we’re talking about already, this is the guy obsessed with intercutting multiple stories.

We know for a fact that the one he submitted in 2012 wasn’t the microscopic one, or the one with Darth Maul, and an older one which isn’t the one submitted in 2012, the microscopic one, or the one with Darth Maul. It could be that the older one was just spitballing, the one submitted in 2012 was catering to Disney, and that he had one main idea with the microscopic ideas and Darth Maul coming back. But I find it more likely he was spitballing the whole time and never had one, single ST idea.

Not true. Check out this interview with Jett Lucas from 2013. He knew in 2011 that George was writing for the Sequel Trilogy.

https://youtu.be/x5GD7GwU9xo

There is literally nothing in this video regarding the content of what he had written and submitted to Disney other than that it focused on passing the torch to a new generation of protagonists. What exactly is your point?

Passing the torch is exactly what Mark Hamill reported ages ago when talking about the sequels.

I think George hit on something he thought would make a good trilogy and went to work on it. How that would have developed is anyone’s guess. What he submitted to Disney was never going to be the final product. It was a treatment which means huge changes were likely before even the shooting draft of the script was ready. So even if we had those treatments to read, that would not have been what we would have seen in theaters.

NeverarGreat said:

I don’t find the unpredictability be true, at least in terms of the Star Wars prequels. This implies that the writer considered the implied contours of the prequel story based off of the originals and then intentionally went in a surprising direction. However, most of my issues with the prequels are that they are far too predictable.

Is Yoda the most powerful Jedi in the OT? Better make him the leader of the entire Jedi Order in the prequels. And give him a lightsaber, because Jedi have lightsabers. And make all the Jedi wear desert cloaks all the time, because that’s what Obi-wan wore on Tatooine.

Are the Clone Wars the major threat in the PT? Better make it a single war and make Palpatine be behind it because he’s the villain. And did you think that the clones would be the bad guys? Ha, no they’re actually good! Until they are bad, just as we all assumed, but because of computer chips or some contrived bullshit.

Did Anakin become more monstrous over the course of the films as he gradually lost his humanity to wounds and emotional scars? Oh he lost an arm once, something that is never mentioned again, and then fell in lava and was put in the monster suit twenty minutes later.

Was Boba Fett cool? Uh yeah, cool enough to be the basis for all the clones. And we get to see him as a kid, isn’t that great?!

…

And in most cases, the OT implies a far more interesting history than even exists in the prequels.

Was Anakin turned to the dark side because of the evils of the Clone Wars? Nah, he had other issues.

Did Owen know and care about Anakin’s life? Sure doesn’t look like it.

Did Palpatine take power in some Machiavellian plot to trick the Senate? No, they were just dumb as rocks.

Was Obi-wan a reckless crusading idealist in the Jedi Order who flew too close to the sun? Dude doesn’t even have a tan.

Did Anakin speak hopefully of the future life of his child and his wish for him to become a Jedi? Hah, we ain’t got time for that.

Did Owen and Beru begin their lives on a different planet but then move to Tatooine to get away from the Empire? That would have made sense, but no, they’re still hanging out in the same place that Anakin left them, still with the same names.

Was Anakin the best starpilot in the galaxy? No, but he was pretty good at space Nascar as a kid, I’m sure that’s just as interesting.

Where did C-3PO come from? Well I’m glad you never asked but here’s the answer…

…And these are just the character traits referenced in the OT! Imagine what someone could do with an entire trilogy of new events and characters. Instead we get a first movie with the comedic key of Jar Jar Binks and who was practically written out of the sequel, and a second movie with a mystery plot that got written out of its sequel, then a third movie which hinges for its tragedy on clones with previously unknown computer chips in their brains and an entire Senate and Jedi Order whose brains could have really used the processing power.

Well, that is one way to look at it. I think there are some mild inconsistencies. Most of the things you list aren’t things I get from the OT at all. So I see no issue with where the PT went with them.

The first time we see Jedi in slasher mode is in Return of the Jedi. Then again in The Phantom Menace. How many battle droids ended on the blades of the Jedi? The hallway scenes of Vader and Luke just fit in with this.

Frankly, if you don’t like them just because other fans do, that is pretty silly. You should like or dislike things for how you feel about them, not because of what other people feel. These two scenes are popular because they show how powerful the father and son are and how formidible one Jedi can be. Something that was shown over and over in the Clone Wars and the PT.

Let’s see… where to begin…

Between 1977 and 2016, Star Wars went from a stand alone film to the 4th film of the saga. So character motivations changed a lot. We got Anikin and Obi-wan’s back stories. But even back in 1977, Vader wasn’t the real bad guy of the film, Tarkin was. Vader was the face of evil. The man on Tarkin’s right hand. An independent opearator working for the Emperor and assigned to help Tarkin. A man on a mission to find the missing plans (which he failed to do, though his plan to track Leia to the rebel base was genius).

So let’s look at what Vader did in the OT. He did not lead the attack on the Tantive IV. He sent the stormtroopers to take the ship. With the ship captured there was no place to run. The gunners were on task to destroy any escape pod so no one could get away. They didn’t destroy the one because it had not life forms an they didn’t have orders for that.

In TESB Vader is leading the attack on the Hoth Base. We don’t see him even draw his light saber… because the base has been abandoned. There is no one there. He reaches the Falcon just as it takes off.

In ROTJ, Vader is under the personal command of the Emperor. He is reduced from being the big bad guy to being a servant. He is following orders and frankly is not nearly as scary as Palpatine. He fights Luke at his master’s orders.

Now, what else do we have to show how Vader might fight with a light saber. Well, we the PT. In three films we see how Jedi fight battle droids. They chop them, they dice them, they pick them up and throw them. And after his turn to the dark side, the first thing Vader does is slaughter the younglings (and who knows how many padawn, knights, and masters) in the temple.

So we come into Rogue One with a working knowledge of how Anakin/Vader fights and what tactics he would use. What we see in the Hallway is EXACTLY that. He has no chance to do that in the OT. But in Rogue One, he is on the trail (for his masters the Emperor and Tarkin) of stolen plans and their recovery is vital. So he will stop at nothing to get them and it is too important to leave to stormtroopers. So the hallway slaughter makes total sense from what we see. This is the powerful and unstopable Lord Vader whose reputation preceeded him in the OT. It is events like this that made him feared. We see very little in the OT that inspired fear. Vader has been a popular bad guy since he first appeared in 1977. The hallway scene is the first chance to see Vader in action. It bridges how Anakin slaughtered battle droids to the reputation Vader has in the OT. And it also fits with how Obi-wan likes to disarm people.

People have been cheering Vader since 1977. The reaction to his appearance in Rogue One is just a natural continuation of that.

The end of Rogue One doesn’t really alter anything about A New Hope. The Tantive IV was not seen in the battle. The ship drops out of the hanger and flees and Vader has to get back to his ship and track them down. There may be no proof of what ship it is (they are a common class of ship after all). And the nature of the plans and how they got into Leia’s hands doesn’t contradict A New Hope either. Leia physically inserts the plans into R2. Sure there was a transmission, but it was put on physical media. So the spies transmitted the plans and Leia had them and is hiding where they went. Does it exactly match the dialog? Probably not, but neither do other conversations in Star Wars and so many in real life.

As for the word spies. Rogue One is, underneath everything, a WWII under cover mission movie where everyone dies. The Vader and Leia scenes at the end exist to give fans an uplifting ending after watching all the Rogue One team members die various deaths. In a time of war, any operative working for the other side is a spy. I never pictured a James Bond type of spy situation. I always pictured a team like we see in Rogue One, though I never though about if they had lived or not.

So I think Rogue One fits perfectly between ROTS and ANH. It adds to ANH without detracting or contradicting anything. It showcases Darth Vader as a badass who has built a reputation as a feared figure. It shows us a team of rebels who steals the plans and the very successful battle that most of the rebels went home from. They lost a few fighters and one capital ship (which was staying to receive the transmission), but most of the ships went home and the ones that went back to Yavin IV would soon fly their next mission against the Death Star.

And I feel it is very appropriate to cheer a bad guy when he is doing something cool and you know how his story is going to end. It doesn’t mean you are sick in the head, only that what you are seeing on screen is really cool and really fleshes out the character even more. And Like I said, what Vader did in that hallway is what we saw Anakin do many times (many many many times if you watch Clone Wars) before to battle droids. Why would the evil dark Lord of the Sith treat rebel soldiers any different than battle droids? That hallway scene to me, cemented Vader’s reputation and how committed he was to the cause and how evil he had become. And so much of that was only conveyed by Kenobi in dialog and never shown before, “a student of mine until he turned to evil” and “he betrayed and murdered your father.” So it is a glorious spectacle that so many Star Wars fans reveled in, not because they don’t side with the rebellion, but because we got to see that evil brought to life and see how truly feared Vader should be.

And as for Rebels, they do not have success after success. They have many successes, but they are all small. No serious conflicts. Lothal is only freed after many setbacks and the cost of one of the main characters. And again, we get to see Darth Vader do what Kenobi said he had done, hunting down and trying to destroy Jedi. So everything in Rebels and Rogue one goes back to what we found out in 1977 and was elaborated by the following 5 movies.

Riquendes said:

Stardust1138 said:

I think the opposite. As even if George had made the Sequels back in the 80’s they would be vastly different to what Disney gave us.

Take into account two major bits:

“If the first trilogy is social and political and talks about how society evolves, Star Wars is more about personal growth and self realization, and the third deals with moral and philosophical problems… The sequel is about Jedi knighthood, justice, confrontation, and passing on what you have learned.”

A quote from George in the 80’s. He always viewed each trilogy as being different from the last but interconnected.

If the above quote is from the “Icons: Intimate Portraits” book, then it is worth mentioning that George Lucas only refers to the possibility of there being Sequels as a vague notion in his mind.

In a 1997 issue of the “Star Wars Insider”, Lucas said “[The whole story has] six episodes…If I ever went beyond that, it would be something that was made up. I really don’t have any notion other than ‘Gee, it would be interesting to do Luke Skywalker later on.’ It wouldn’t be part of the main story, but a sequel to this thing.”

In a 1999 interview with “Vanity Fair”, Lucas denied ever having any plans to make nine “Star Wars” movies. “When you see it in six parts, you’ll understand”, Lucas said at the time. “It really ends at part six.”

There are more similar quotes from George. It really can be difficult to take George’s words as fact at times.

Maybe, at best Lucas’ quote of "I really don’t have any notion other than “Gee, it would be interesting to do Luke Skywalker later on.’ It wouldn’t be part of the main story, but a sequel to this thing.” has been incorrectly misconstrued as being his outline for his Sequel Trilogy? Because in Lucas’ own words they are not part of the main story, but may be an idea for a possible sequel or continuation of Luke’s own personal story.

Well, it depends on when George was quoted as to what he said. Early on he was talking 9 films. Never an if about the last 3. The way Mark talked sounded like it was certain he was going to do 9. As he started planning the prequels, he stopped talking about the sequels. By the time he was done with ROTS, he wasn’t planning on doing the sequels any longer. Then as time wore on, he thought about it again. I’m not sure they ever would have gotten made if he hadn’t sold Lucasfilm to Disney. Sure he roughed out treatments, but I get the impression it was more to add value to the company than because he was planning on making them at that point.

Plus, if you read the early treatments and drafts of TESB and ROTJ, they are very different than what we got in the end. That is the nature of movie story telling. It morphs from the earliest ideas to the final product. You can even see that in Colin Trevorrow’s draft and the final TROS. The story follows the same structure, but details have changed drastically.

My above comments about the Whills are aimed at the treatment that George had done, but who knows what would have happened and how the story would have changed if he had decided to start production. We probably would still be waiting for the final installment since he liked to spend 3 years on each film. But based on what he was talking about and his past track record, I think he was headed in a direction that the fans wouldn’t have liked. The fans very much wanted a new trilogy similar to the first and better than the prequels, but with a fresh story. I think going too metaphysical would have lost them. I think Abrams could have started it better. Most of the complaints come from his setup in TFA. But with that I think we got two sequels worthy of the originals. And I think the complaints about what George might have done would make the complaints about TLJ and TROS look insigificant.

Considering the backlash against midichlorians, I think George’s intent to explore the Whills would have led to far more things that fans would have fond fault with over what we got. I think what we got was an epic conclusion to an epic saga in the line of what George might have done if the next movie had come out in 1989 (with different, older actors portraying Han, Luke, and Leia). I think Palpatine coming back was a genius move. If the saga was going to continue past ROTJ and tie in with the other stories (the PT were always going to have the major points they did) that keeping Palpatine a the bad guy is such a nice echo of Star Wars origins in Flash Gordon. Ming always came back so it make sense that so does Palpatine. Though that seems like a last minute addition, I think there is some evidence that that was the ending that Abrams wanted to see all along. But George was going to explore the origins of the Force and I think that would have backfired. I think other things he would have done he might have done better himself, but he seems to have been derailed from the formula that made the OT such a success - and that his mythic action in space. Larger than life mythic archetypes saving the galaxy in mythic ways in space ships with space battles. I see those archetypes in the ST. I think TFA could have been much better done, but Abrams was too scared to make the movie he should have for fear of alienating fans. I think in the end he realized that he needed to make a cool movie and hope the fans came around. I think TROS took more risks and as a result made a better story. I think Lucas was going to go exploring in his world more and I don’t think fans would have liked it.

TESB

Otherwise you should drop the T from all the other abreviations. PM instead of TPM. FA instead of TFA. LJ instead of TLJ. ROS instead of TROS. And you could make the argument for dropping it from 3 others for AOC, ROS and ROJ. The word THE is there in the title logo and has been since the first promotional items came out.