yotsuya

I’ve tried to find a good DTS decoder with no luck. The best I’ve been able to do is to turn it into a lossy AAC file that I can then split apart. Since I keep having to go through a lossy stage, I’m thinking I might as well just stick to the multi-track AC3 audio. And I have a lot of 5.1 versions because I figured out how to extract the surround information from the Dolby Stereo encoded tracks (i.e., the original 1977 Dolby Stereo of Star Wars) and how the LFE signal was extracted.

I took some time and created a better starfield. I was able to retrieve the brightest stars from the 81 crawl that TN1 included with the SSE. The medium stars are from the TR46 LD preservation of the DE. I included a diffuse field of stars in the background that were the result of some filtering I tried to do that failed, but it did produce a field of very dim stars. I was trying to filter the dimmest stars from the Grindhouse TESB opening crawl. I pulled the planet and moons from an overly of the SSE and the BR (the moons and planets lined up perfectly - so did the stars but I filtered them out). The did not line up perfectly with the 81 crawl. I had to resize each one individually. I cropped the image to to the SSE planet. That is a fair match to the cropping in TR47. I usually work with layers and this one has 4 visible and some other reference layers (such as the full TR47 starfield. I would have used the JSC or the OUTRules, but both share the JSC cropping of the image. I opted for the most complete starfield I could find. Next up, the running background plate for the crawl and flyover.

I made a video comparing the 3 ANH crawls and the TESB crawl.

https://vimeo.com/160390349
pass: OT

Also, if you use the SSE extra as a source, you have to recreate the final frame because it is missing. That was the other big obstacle I ran into, but I was just going to create that single frame in photoshop once the rest was done using a high quality source, probably the SSE it self to closer match in quality and color.

Funny, what I’m lacking to finish mine is a stable image. I’m downloading both your versions to see if either of them will work. The starfield is not simple. It is quite complex and to recreate it properly you have to match it to a video of the original 1981 crawl. I’m using my copy of the TR47 archive that I’ve had for many years. It has many flaws, but it is at 24fps, not 30 as many LD preservations are, and the stars are clearly visible at the key points (when the crawl vanishes and just before the blockade runner appears.

Before and after those key points, the starfield doesn’t moves and it is pretty simple. Between, those two spots the starfiled stretches as it moves and the moons are not fixed against the starfield. There is a star right next to the smaller moon and you can actually see their relative positions change.

The one hurdle I have not even gotten to (because I don’t have a stable flyover) is the blue engine glow that covers the screen. I had some thoughts on that, but haven’t exactly figured out the mechanics of how to create a matt so the stars don’t bleed through the star destroyer, but the blue covers both. I was thinking of duplicating the star destroyer layer and use the brighten layer to make the starts shine through the blue glow and they a matted star destroyer over the top.

I’m much better editing single images than moving images. I have several tools that let me pull out the stars on the LD and make them look more like the stars from the SSE and BR versions. I haven’t completed my final rendering of the stars. I found that the photography of the TESB starfield and the 81 crawl starfield are very different so I was going to go through and use both to create something. I plan on using the LD starfield as is to start with, reduce and sharpen the stars, then copy over the TESB stars where the LD stars don’t look right (there are several places where the low LD resolution makes clumps).

My goal is to have a version of the 81 crawl that fits with the GOUT or the SSE so my goal was a modest 720p version. But considering the quality of the 35mm scans, that should work if rendered at 1080p.

The thing I keep coming up with when looking at correcting ANH is that you can’t go too bright. I feel strongly that some of the crushed blacks in the DVD/BR are supposed to be. That is why few of us remember seeing the garbage mattes or Darth Vader’s red eyes until we saw it on TV. Those things are artifacts of a presentation that is too bright. Funny how my attempts to color correct Star Wars are leading to me looking at other movies differently. I’m not just comparing it to on set photographs, but to other movies. I think that because ANH is filled with sand and artificial corridors (either in white or gray) we tend to think of it as a fairly low color movie, but R2, Threepio, the many lights, laser blasts, explosion, and light sabers, as well as some props and costumes, are actually quite colorful and a lot of times those colors are diminished too much, I think in reaction to the almost neon tone of the DVD/BR releases. I think doing a sample correction to compare it to a particular color reference is great, but those brightened versions are way too bright. I prefer the darker version done just with the algorithm.

Scott109 said:

If George Lucas had made The Force Awakens, the dialogue and acting would have been much worse, but the plot would have been much more original and the world building would have been much more fleshed out.

Exactly!

Harmy said:

I personally define the terms by their semantic meaning -
Preservation - to preserve something is to make sure it stays in its current state - so scanning the film, not cleaning it and only correcting the colors to what is on the print is a preservation.

Restoration - to restore is to return something to a previously existing state - in this case then it would mean to scan the print, color-correct it to original colors, if there’s fading, and clean any dirt and scratches that happened to the print itself.

Alternatively restoration could mean to use whatever sources to get to the quality of an earlier generation copy but not to get something that is better than the original copy when it was new - anything beyond that isn’t, at least semantically, a restoration any more, so from this point of view, Legacy is neither a preservation, nor a restoration - the closest term IMO is Remastering - creating a new master, which may well be better than the original master.

I think you are petty close on that. Remastering is what Lucas did with all the recomped effects shots that really don’t look much different, but subtle flaws are removed, such as the slightly transparent snow speeder cockpits. Mike is doing much the same thing except he doesn’t have the original components and is attempting to do it by isolating and fixing each component in the shot.

Well, I just stumbled on this and did some additional research. So, basically, except for the mono releases, they are all surround sound. I always thought Dolby Stereo was just a noise reduced stereo, but it is a 4 channel matrixed surround sound system. That should be interesting to convert into DTS for my GOUT project. There seems to be some question as to whether the LFE should cut off at 80 Hz or 120 Hz, but other than that it is pretty straight forward.

Yes, Han was referred to as General Solo in ROTJ. If the war continued for another year that likely was not his only action as General and he would have become quite famous for that. It is not surprising that Finn, as a stormtrooper, would be aware of his Rebel Alliance history.

Just as it isn’t surprising, considering the sort of people she lives around, that Rey would know of his smuggling fame.

As for the “Kessel run in 12 parsecs” line from ANH, it makes a lot of sense when you consider other dialog in ANH. A powerful and fast ship could get closer to large gravitational bodies and shorten the distance of a run through a tight hyperspace route. Stars and planets are navigational hazards in hyperspace so being able to get closer to them might give access to a better route that would shorten the distance. On the surface it seems silly if you know that a parsec is a unit of distance, but it isn’t that ridiculous when you consider that 1920’s road construction led to longer distances than modern roads. Many roads have been realigned over the years to provide shorter distances through uneven terrain. I think Han’s explanation to Luke about Hyperspace really explains why a distance for the Kessel run means the Millennium Falcon is a fast ship. I liked the joke about 14 instead of 12 for Han’s record.

I knew it was possible when I watched the DL. I even know how to do it. I just don’t have the time to do those and the other projects I want to do.

Well, if they hadn’t abandoned the old EU (which they hadn’t when they made Ep III), then the death star we see in Ep III is the prototype (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Death_Star_prototype), not the Ep IV Death Star. I would say that its appearance in Ep III after its creation in the EU makes the prototype version canon, though it isn’t specified. It just doesn’t make sense otherwise. Why take 20 years to build the first one and 4 to build the second. First spend time on the prototype, make sure the parts work, then build the first death star and maybe spend 5-10 years to build it. After 4 the Second Death Star was incomplete, not having shields and likely not propulsion, but an active reactor and super laser. Still a long way from completion.

Mike isn’t trying to create a faithful duplicate of the original. He is trying to restore the best picture that he can from the sources he has. He is basically doing what Lucas should have done in 97. He is trying to achieve a 4k quality image and doing so from a 70’s print that wasn’t intended for such high definition viewing requires that he address things most of us can’t even see because they would show up as noticeable flaws at 4k. He has processed several sections known for their graininess to enhance the detail that lay hidden behind the effects layers. He removed a lot of the dirt in the Tatooine scenes (he basically noticed the same artificial dirt - not grain - that the Lowry people did when they helped clean up that scan). What Mike has been going for is Star Wars at its best in 4k. Most of what he did was simple restoration of the film at hand, but in many cases he has improved the film to a state that makes it presentable at 4k - notably some of the effects shots. Most people would not be able to see that he has done anything other than the movie looks so good.

Now, originally he was trying to restore LD or GOUT to a presentable state and did things like completely recreating the starfield for the opening crawl, but this current project is based mostly on a scan of a high quality technicolor print.

I would have posted this a couple of days ago, but my computer has been out of service (network issues - had to replace my router and a switch). But today I had a chance to import DrDre’s reel 1 into Vegas and compare it to my GOUT color correction. It is so very close on some of the shots. You can see the same colors in both, but the color in the GOUT has a bit larger pallet. Not surpising since the prints they were scanned from are separated by several generations. I’m going to continue my BR color correction following my belief that the GOUT is a good guide to match to.

And while I can understand the desire to recreate that original 1977 experience, that is not my goal. What I want is an authentic scan of the original negative with the original color timing. The Tech IB prints are the closest we can get our hands on, but they all seem to have a noticeable tint. And pretty much no-one doing a major color restoration is relying on the Tech IB print colors. Add to that worrying about bulb color is kind of pointless. We need to know what the original colors of the print were first and even then I have no interest in a version based on any given bulb. I want the original colors captured on film - what the 3 color separation master would reveal if they would bother to have it restored (it would create a digital master that is superior to anything we have ever seen). In 1997 restoring 3 color masters that have shrinkage was impossible. Today it is commonplace. Until they do that, we will have to use our best judgement. This project is the closest anyone has yet come because it is revealing the original colors of a faded print. It is unfortunately a copy of another print, but it is still as close as we have gotten and it shows a close relationship to the GOUT colors (an inferior image, but good color information hidden in there).

I am addicted. I want the entire movie to look like that (with a small adjustment to brighten the mid tones). With just that it would be the perfect grindhouse version.

You are a master, DrDre. Thank you.

Okay, so someone above had the silly notion that he used his ideas planned for the sequesl in ROTJ. Quite wrong. It is pretty obvious from reading all the drafts that ROTJ just expanded on the very shortened epic battle Lucas had planned originally. Basically Luke’s training and Bespin, and then all the stuff on Endor would flesh out what was truncated into the Falcon training, the Death Star scenes, and the final battle (which would have been a surface and space battle). Lucas has said as much many times.

The only hint I’ve ever heard was from Mark Hamill who asked if he would want to come back as Luke in 30 years and play the Ben character in a new trilogy. Outside of that I have never heard anything credible.

I think had Lucas done the ST that it would turn out different than the PT. A lot of the PT’s problems are with the basic story. Political stories like that just aren’t as popular. I think his vision of the PT was always going to be inferior to the original because it is less epic and more involved. The PT would have been better if he had brought in a good dialog writer to co-write the scripts.

The ST might have a more epic and interesting story, but I think it would have suffered from the same writing mistakes that plague the PT. It would have had Luke, Han, Leia, Chewy, Threepio and R2 and it would be hard to screw them up so I think the GL ST would have turned out better than the PT, but not as good at the OT.

I think the best scenario would have been to take his story ideas for the ST and turn them over to competent writers to execute. Keep his arcs, fix his characters and the details and continuity of his plots and I think it would have been fantastic. I think some of the biggest mistakes in TFA are that they played it too safe. They hired a director who would hold true to the fan image of the OT and they hired the TESB and ROTJ screenwriter (who did not come up with the stories - Kasdan cold have done miracles with the PT). Between them they came up with an acceptable plot, but one that relies on some of the tropes of the first film (though I think they managed to tell a very different story with them). I think GL’s story ideas would have given us the more typical 3 separate stories that form a trilogy instead of the second almost being a continuation of the first.

DrDre, is it possible to create another algorithm that could estimate what the previous generation print would have looked like? We have the GOUT, the Tech IB scan, and the TN1 scans. I’m just wondering if it is possible to estimate what both a first run theatrical print and a studio presentation print would have looked like based on what we have available.

I think the important points to my ranking is that I agree with the majority around here that the first three are TESB, ANH, and ROTJ. But I do not object to the PT as much as many others on OT do. Neither do I like TFA as much as others seemed to. Put the pieces together and I like TFA less than the PT. That is my opinion. I have my reasons and I really don’t expect everyone to agree. Part of it may be having been burned by Lost, and the two Star Trek movies by Abrams and I went in with the preconceived idea the he is a bad writer. TFA is better than either of his two Star Trek movies by a long way and he got so much more right, but the story suffers from his typical story telling and I noticed and it is a big deal to me. I can watch and enjoy TPM and ROTS without the need for any edits. ATOC needs one, but TFA needs more, a lot more, before I can truly enjoy it.

The most important thing to me in a movie, episode, or book is that the story make sense on the most basic level. TFA fails that in several ways. Things like that ruin a story for me. The rest may be well done, but the gaffs destroy any credibility TFA has in any ranking. The basic story sucks so the film sucks. That is the end of the story for me. I can deal with less than perfect characters and dialog if the story they tell is solid underneath. If the story isn’t solid I can’t enjoy it.

MalàStrana said:

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

Handman said:

The movies are Star Wars, Empire, and Jedi. That’s what they’ve been called by everyone, so that’s what they will be called.

The original copyrights I believe are register under SW, TESB, and ROTJ as well, making those the official titles

I won’t discuss it for SW, because this is its original title,under which it was first registered. But for the others, what is the copyright ? TESB and ROTJ were marketed as “SW : TESB” and “SW : ROTJ” but the episode number was originally in the crawl.

Don’t know if this is entirely reliable, but here is imdb card : http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2488496/releaseinfo?ref_=tt_dt_dt#akas

(original title) Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens
(alternative title) Star Wars: The Force Awakens

TN1 has given us an interesting insight into this. The 1981 craw that they included with their SSE release has the tile of the film in 1981 for UK release as Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope

Lord Haseo said:

While ignoring fundamental and unforgivable flaws in the PT…

I find the flaws in TFA to be more unforgivable. But it is what I expected from Abrams. I briefly had hope with all the leaked story details, but some of them apparently went unused and the story suffered for it.

I agree that the ending of TFA is weak. The film actually only ends with Finding Luke. We have no idea if he is going to train Rey, rejoin Leia, fight Kylo Ren, fight Snoke, or help in any way. The idea that Rey has gone to him for training is not implied in the film. Leia sends her there to bring him back so that is the only implied ending (which agrees with the opening crawl), but we aren’t certain if Rey will be able to bring him back or not. The movie ends with finding Luke. The Maltese Falcon didn’t end with finding the falcon, there was more to the story. There was more to the story in TFA, but the story cuts off. Typical of Abrams crappy endings.

But even so, that is not my biggest gripe with the film. Some find it a rehash or reboot of Ep 4. I don’t. I seem a few similar plot points (but then, ROTJ is a rehash of the the last half of Ep 4 in much closer ways), but the overall story is unique. My problem is with the story jumps that fail logic. So, the Falcon takes off from Jakku and escapes into space. Where are the other Tie Fighters. Why doesn’t the Star Destroyer pursue? Why doesn’t the Falcon go into hyperspace. How did Han just happen to be near Jakku to detect the Falcon. Basically from when the Falcon leaves Jakku until Han and Chewy board, the movie makes no sense. The Falcon would still be close enough to Jakku for Kylo Ren to sense his father like he does later. And then you have Starkiller base. That weapon makes no sense. If Takodana is in the Hosnian system, then they would be able to see the weapon destroy the other planets, but the story implies it is a different system and fails to name it or why destroying it will destroy the entire New Republic Navy. We have a Galactic scale government that can be wiped out with the destruction of a single system? And the Navy has no other bases and ships? Seriously. You call that story telling? It is one of the stupidest segments in all of Star Wars. And then you have a small planet suck up an entire star? Where did it put it? Physics doesn’t work that way. Not unless you have something dimensionally transcendental like the TARDIS. Add to that the letdown ending, the over saturated lighting, the lack of a sense of scale (the galaxy is a big place, but Abrams made it seem small), the wrong lightsaber sound effects, trying to cram too much into the story, and all its other problems, I just can’t give TFA a good rating compared to the other 6 films. I didn’t suck as bad as Abrams 2 Star Trek films, that is for sure, but while I enjoyed the characters and can’t wait to see more of them, the film left me dissatisfied in a way few movies do. None of the PT left me with this feeling and I have never seen holes of this magnitude in any of the other films.

That is why to me TFA ranks the lowest. It is 7 of 7.

TV’s Frink said:

Lord Haseo said:

Dek Rollins said:
Considering something racist when racism wasn’t the intent is completely subjective, so yes, this is about opinions. For something to be racist means that it is portraying a group (race) in a condescending or negative way with the intent of doing so. If you feel that these are racist and offensive, that’s your opinion, but it is not fact.

There are still racial stereotypes in the film. That is the only fact that should be in play as it pertains to the topic.

IF YOU AREN’T A BLACK ASIAN JEW OR YOTSUYA YOU CAN’T DECIDE THAT.

I’m glad you hold my opinion so high.

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:
Get that nonsense out of your head already…

That is your opinion.

I don’t think you know what an opinion actually is. When there are clear as day racial stereotypes (although Jar Jar is not as overtly reminiscent to black face as the others are to their stereotypes) then it’s not an opinion. It’s a fact. Get over it.

People will use the the “my opinion” excuse for anything now a days.

See, had Ahmed Best not claimed he had a free hand in creating Jar Jar and someone else (implying GL or some other white person) had made Jar Jar with the traits Best gave him, Jar Jar would be the only one I might agree was a clear stereotype. The others are not as clear as day. They match no stereotype I’ve ever encountered unless you nit pick and over analyze to find things that aren’t really there.

Luke needed at least one line of dialog. He should have said, “Hello, Rey. I’ve been expecting you.” Then she pulls out the light saber and he stares. That would have been so much better and satisfying. The wordless ending felt useless. The ending was just meh. Exciting to see Luke, but I was expecting more. This movie so needs a fan edit. Minor tweaks, but it so needs them.