So true, Broom Kid. Leaving them alive just creates all sorts of issues. Having them die is the cleanest route to take in story telling. It’s not an easy way out, it is the only way that preservers our heroes as heroes.
My problem with the idea of either Kylo or Vader surviving their respective redemptions is that even in a fantasy film universe as wide open as the one Star Wars occurs in - I simply don’t see a future for either character where they’re not immediately murdered as retribution for their crimes, either by the respective governments, or by mob rule. Asking audiences to accept that family members (or possible lovers) can forgive the terrible in those they hold dear is one thing. Asking the rest of that fictional universe to get in line behind them is… a lot. And really, really pushing the suspension of disbelief.
Their only real future along those lines is self-exile. Which was actually pitched in the case of Kylo, but ignored by Abrams as a possibility. Kylo communing with the Force for the rest of his life, in solitude, on Ahch-To makes sense to me. Kylo wandering the galaxy like some sort of do-gooder Ronin? I don’t see it. It’d just be wave after wave of people trying to take him out because of, you know, the whole genocidal dictator thing.
I could see self-exiling either character for literally DECADES, and then being summoned out of that exile as a last ditch “you’re our only hope” sort of hail mary for whoever the heroes of that follow-up story were. i.e. “I know of one man who could help. Maybe. But you’re not gonna like it”
That’s one hell of a long game to play. But it’s probably the only real shot at a plausible “redemption/atonement” storyline for those characters. You need a ton of time and a whole lot of distance from the events of the movie they redeemed themselves in. Give them a chance to become legends/spectres, and then they finally get a chance to do the right thing for the right reaons on a large scale.
But in the case of Kylo… I just don’t see him surviving like 50,000 assassination attempts if he lived past The Rise of Skywalker. He’d have to hide out in a place where no people go for a very, very long time.
You’ve actually touched on my entire issue with the Luke/Vader conclusion in ROTJ - the very ‘mob rule’ that would have made a ‘Vader survives’ story untenable is exactly the same ‘mob rule’ that should have made Luke’s story untenable. I keep joking about banter at the Ewok party but I’m actually serious - what did Luke tell everyone about the throne room showdown? Because the truth would have had him strung on the nearest branch. People keep saying “Luke showed mercy and thus destroyed the Sith”. This is not what happened. What happened was that Luke abandoned the fight and, luckily for him, this led to Palpatine’s death. It’d be no different if Luke had left a banana peel on the step and Palpatine had accidentally broken his neck. When TFA opened with ‘Luke Skywalker has vanished’ I was like “who cares?”. What would Jedi Master Skywalker have offered that could have been remotely useful to bringing down the FO? ‘Be kind, never use your weapon, and family comes first’.
This could have been fixed (for me anyway) with a change of dialogue at the Ewok hut. Luke could have said to Leia something like “Vader can sense when I’m here, which means the Emperor is on to us. I’m going to turn myself in. Vader will take me to the Emperor himself - I have foreseen it. I’m going to make sure Emperor Palpatine never leaves the Death Star”. Leia would be understandably horrified - Luke is basically committing suicide for the cause - and Luke would insist. It would be incredibly powerful but also selfless and heroic. That would be a true hero. Vader could still have his change of heart, Luke could still spare his father’s life, but Luke’s intentions would be that of a Jedi Master - someone whose counsel one would definitely wish to seek 30 years later when the war flares up again. And Vader’s redemption would merely be a factor in the events - a very important one for the characters to be sure - but it would still be the story of Luke Skywalker destroying the Sith with Vader’s turnaround as a component of the whole - not Luke’s entire mission.
Which is why I prefer Kylo’s redemption. Kylo was redeemed because he’d never truly lost his attachment to his family and Rey saved his life. So he made serious amends - firstly by helping Rey in the final battle and then by giving his life-force to her. It doesn’t excuse his crimes, but it has infinitely more weight than Vader’s selfish “gotta save my kid” redemption IMO.
And this is exactly the kind of story Rey could tell at the after-party - “Kylo turned to the light, he helped me fight Palpatine, and then he died so that I might live”. Why is this better? Because she wouldn’t have to omit such items as “well I didn’t want to lose my temper so I held back, watched lots of people die, got angry and beat Kylo to standstill, spared him because I’m fond of him, threw my weapon away, declared myself a Jedi while you guys were all being beaten to sh*t in the space battle…”
You can describe what Luke was doing during the larger battle as keeping Vader and the Emperor distracted and focused on him rather than on the battle. Keeping them distracted kept them from using their formidable power and experience to make the battle worse. If Luke terms his actions like that he ends up being a hero and part of the battle and doesn’t have to lie about anything. Because he was keeping the Emperor occupied at a crucial moment when the Emperor’s plans were being undone. Heck, the Emperor was so focused on torturing and killing him that he didn’t even sense Vader was going to throw him over the railing and down the shaft. And in the process he redeemed his father.
And everyone is right, there is no way Vader or Kylo could live. Kylo could have gone to Ach-to and become a teacher for one-on-one advanced Jedi training, but outside of that he wouldn’t have much of a life. The redemption and death is a better story that solves that issue by having them not only redeem their soul and return to the light, but sacrifice their life to save someone they care about. It makes their redemption more sure and very permanent (they are dead and can’t fall back to the dark side).
Yeah, I feel this version it too derivative. Great for a first draft, but not shooting script quality.
I disagree that Kylo is Rey’s villain. He isn’t. He is on a parallel journey to her. Both are trying to figure things out and both think the other can help. And with how things ended, you can argue that Kylo is the last Skywalker by blood and Rey is the last Skywalker in spirit. They are yin and yang. Together they are balance. So it was never supposed to be about defeating Kylo but reaching that point of balance. TROS did it by transferring force energy back and forth.
But the picture of redemption that the saga gives us is that you can redeem your life at the end by sacrificing it for someone else. Vader for Luke and Kylo for Rey. It is not as if they get up and walk away and we have to address the aspect of forgiveness on a galactic scale. They are dead and have paid for their sins. They are redeemed for us the audience.
Yeah, I don’t see Disney corporate telling Lucasfilm what to do.
Naive would be an understatement.
Would it? Iger trusts his people to do what they are good at. And after 3 out of 4 films had done over $1 billion I wouldn’t be questioning Kennedy.
And it is rather stupid considering what he himself knew of movie development. The fact that they kept even some of his ideas (girl Jedi seeking out Luke in isolation) is pretty good. Kennedy said they used them as a jumping off point the same way they would for any movie project with just a treatment. If he wanted them to keep his stories, he should have written full blown scripts.
I don’t take the PT as changing the OT. The only part of the OT that it changes is the moment Vader turns and throws the Emperor down the shaft. Outside of that moment, nothing about the PT (or ST) has changed a thing for me in the OT.
For me the PT is Anakin’s story and it is nearly complete. It would be complete if those droids had not ended up at the Lars homestead. For Vader, the OT is about opening old wounds. Even in the original dialog, Vader is after Luke independent of Palpatine. We don’t have clear motivation except the parent child relationship until we get the PT, but it really doesn’t change anything because the OT is Luke’s hero’s journey. And finding his father is his hero’s reward for his victory. Anakin gets a redemption and balances the force in the process, but his story was really done in ROTS. He was a fallen hero. And a lot of that goes back to 1976 with the 4th draft of the original screenplay where Ben talks about how Vader was his student who turned to evil. Vader was always a fallen Jedi in the OT. The PT just told us the details.
Well why the hell did Vader deserve redemption? At least Kylo had layers, some obvious conflict. The great thing about the TROS version is that Kylo’s redemption was a by-product of what was going on. Rey was on mission (both in the DS wreckage and on Exegol) and Kylo’s turn around came about as a consequence of their interactions (and Leia’s death) - not just a matter of Rey throwing everything aside to win his heart. Luke’s entire focus on DS II was saving Vader when he should have been fighting the Sith with every last breath. The idea that Luke became some kind of legend for this is absurd to me. So I absolutely prefer Kylo’s redemption over the cockamamie “Vader was really just a nice dad and you should always support your dad” thing of ROTJ.
I’ve never seen someone who hates Vader’s redemption before, so this take seems really bizarre to me. If you don’t think Vader had any conflict in the OT, did you even watch those movies? Throughout the trilogy, Vader just seems tired of being the Emperor’s lapdog. When he finds out his son is alive, that becomes his only focus. He was already in a position to be redeemed by Luke, he just needed the push of seeing the Emperor torturing his son. So I don’t think it’s some kind of “support your abusive dad” message, and I feel like the idea that Luke should be religiously focused on fighting the Sith goes against the principles of the saga. The old Jedi were wrong because they were focused on fighting the Sith, and they couldn’t see the manipulation occurring right under their noses. Luke managed to see through the darkness and redeem his father, ending the Sith once and for all.
There was nothing pre-ROTJ to indicate Vader was a conflicted soul. This is primarily because he wasn’t - Lucas hadn’t written him to be the fallen Anakin Skywalker until very late in the process. So ignoring his actions from within the Empire let’s consider Vader from Luke’s perspective - Vader’s dogged pursuit of the DS plans led to the grisly death of Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru, he tortured Leia on the DS, he killed Obi Wan right before Luke’s eyes, he shot down Luke’s comrades during the DS battle - one of whom was Luke’s boyhood friend, he tortured Luke’s friends on Bespin just to get a rise out of Luke, he beat the crap out of Luke and offered joint custody of a new fascist Empire, and finally Luke was so horrified that he attempted suicide rather than accept Vader as his dad.
I fail to see how from this we get to Luke’s “there’s still good in him” stance of ROTJ. And don’t get me started on the ethics of remaining calm while countless innocents are being annihilated by a super-laser…
What we see in TESB is the shock of the initial news. What we see in ROTJ is Luke the Jedi who has contemplated and reflected and searched his feelings. Even at the end of TESB, Luke has accepted the news and is wondering why Ben and Yoda didn’t tell him. He asks Yoda in ROTJ, but he knew it already. In TESB Luke was brash. In ROTJ he has gained wisdom from his defeat and gained new insight. In TESB he sought to save his friends from the evil Darth Vader. In ROTJ he sees the path of possible redemption for his father.
And we don’t know when during the development of TESB that Vader became Luke’s father because Lucas never put it in the script. That scene was left unfinished and the reveal was only told to Hammil in person. Prowse said “Ben killed your father” on set. So as far as we know, he came up with that idea early on.
And you have to remember that when we meet Luke, he is obsessed with learning about his father. That is kind of a running theme in the scenes on Tatooine. So if he sensed some conflict in Vader, he would jump on the chance to redeem him and get to know him. But alas he only gets a brief time.
And since I read the screenplay I thought I would give my impressions.
First, I was struck at some of the obvious reuse of dialog from the OT. I was also struck at how much this and the final TROS parallel each other. I can see now why they still have credit for the story.
Second. I hate the ending. Rey and Kylo really don’t have a fair battle. Kylo is way over powered. I do like the epilogue. I like seeing the training start right away. I like how they had an award ceremony like in ANH. That would have been the perfect ending.
Third, this reads like a really rough draft of TROS. I see all the same events, but the order and location are changed. And Palpatine is added. Like TFA is based on the Lucas treatment for VII, TROS is based on this script.
I found Mortis to be a waste in this. Moving it to a different planet made sense. Creating a Sith planet with Palpatine at the center feel more powerful. More epic. It raises the stakes. I like how in TROS the First Order hasn’t solidified their hold where here more time has passed. I do like how we see the more evil side to the First Order here, but enough is implied in the ST that it isn’t really needed. And I didn’t see much to the Stormtrooper rebellion. It was just one group with the rest of the surface battle being the locals. Other reviews make it sound like a grand and widespread stormtooper rebellion and it really isn’t. And what they ended up with in TROS has some nice echoes of this without letting it distract.
And I really don’t like a Sith teacher. That really goes against the rule of two. I just really have problems with Kylo in this script. As the last Skywalker, he really deserved better. I like that they flopped some of the scenes in for TROS. It really is clear that they continued development on the story rather than throw it out. I see so much of where TROS ended up in this. It is clearly the source.
Overall I think it is a great script. Worthy of being a early draft of a Star Wars movie. But in the end I don’t think it is up to being a shooting script.
Yeah, I don’t see Disney corporate telling Lucasfilm what to do. Especially not Kennedy with her reputation at producing great movies.
Lucas turned in treatments. That is a rough story outline that goes over the story in the broadest terms. He also had some concept art done. We know that TFA started out pretty much as he intended. We don’t know much more than that. He did come back to help with the story of TROS. As far as I know it was a meeting with him, Abrams, and Terrio to discuss the movie at a treatment level or an early draft of the script.
If you have every bothered to research how movies evolve during the writing process, you will know that what Lucas wrote out was not likely to make it to the screen. The story changes greatly as it gets scripted and then it goes through many revisions, even during shooting and editing. Movies are in a constant state of flux until the final cut is sent out for duplication. So what the earliest treatments or drafts have very often does not get into the final film. Often entire scenes are rewritten and reshot and swapped out. My DVD/BR collection is full of delted and alternate scenes that would really change the nature of the film. Some are great and I wonder why they change it and some are really bad and I’m so glad they did change it. Disney’s Tangled had an entire section that was cut but is still referenced in the end credits (parts of the story are done in a rough animation while the credits role and retell the story). Star Wars movies are not an exception.
What you see in this draft script is an early concept of the film. Most of it got dumped and evidently some of it before Trevorrow left. Was it Disney? Kennedy? or Trevorrow himself? You can’t say from the available information, but Disney is the least likely. The entire creative process used in movie making is the most likely reason for all the changes. Just look at ANH and all the changes it went through. And the ones we know of from TESB and ROTJ. And the fact that Trevarrow and Connolly still have credit on the film is testament to how the final film evolved from their original concept. Ultimately this script is a snapshot of where the movie was at that point in time. Even if this had been greenlit as the shooting script, the final movie would not have been exactly this. So if you read this and see it as what we didn’t get, you are mistaken.
I see each trilogy having its own themes. There is some crossover, but adding too much PT music to ANH would not be a good thing. It is the only film I think needs some editing (when doing a fan edit) and I intend to add Vader’s theme in a couple of places. It has to feel natural and something you’d almost miss. Though a small bit of music toward the end of the duel might fit in nicely.
I think the key to why some of us think TROS is a good final film is how epic the battle is. The series is titled Star Wars. The hallmark of the series has been the space battles. In TROS we get one actually in the atmosphere of Exogol. I really haven’t head anything about this that has any descent space battle. I think the Stromtrooper rebellion is a cool idea, but one that needs more time to play out. That would have been a cool thing to have Finn and Rose address in TLJ instead of Fathiers and gamblers. But to bring it out just in the final film seems a little rushed to me. For me, the epic nature of Palaptine, a fleet of planet killers, and so many other things about TROS just were so much better than what I see here. I just don’t see the epic nature and how that adds to the saga lore.
I don’t know why you think the battle of Coruscant wouldn’t have been “epic.” Based on the script’s description, it sounds like the biggest battle in Star Wars yet. A massive citizen uprising occurs on the ground level, while an Eclipse class dreadnought struggles to survive against the entire First Order fleet. The battle of Exegol in TROS even copied a moment directly from the battle of Coruscant, Lando’s “on your left” moment. So I think people who watch Star Wars for the cool spaceship action would be mostly satisfied by Trevorrow’s version.
I didn’t say epic enough. I said it wasn’t a space battle.
I want to read every draft of every one of the films. Not possible with what is currently out there.
I think the key to why some of us think TROS is a good final film is how epic the battle is. The series is titled Star Wars. The hallmark of the series has been the space battles. In TROS we get one actually in the atmosphere of Exogol. I really haven’t head anything about this that has any descent space battle. I think the Stromtrooper rebellion is a cool idea, but one that needs more time to play out. That would have been a cool thing to have Finn and Rose address in TLJ instead of Fathiers and gamblers. But to bring it out just in the final film seems a little rushed to me. For me, the epic nature of Palaptine, a fleet of planet killers, and so many other things about TROS just were so much better than what I see here. I just don’t see the epic nature and how that adds to the saga lore.
I think some may have missed some of the setup for Kylo. He was already troubled when Luke started training him. He was already heading down that path. Something in him was seeking and he settled on Vader, his grandfather. For 23 years he held the power of the galaxy in his hands. He was the right hand of the Emperor. He was mythic. Kylo worships him as a hero. To us he is the villain. His path goes along a dark path that culminates in him killing his father. But even doing that doesn’t bring any peace. Instead he kills his teacher, Snoke. That doesn’t bring any peace. Kylo is still conflicted. And Rey is a key player. She can see the conflict. She helps bring out the conflict. Between Rey and Leia, they finally reach him. There is always hope. That has really been a theme of the saga. That there is always hope. Hope in a rebellion, a resistance, hope for a father, hope for a son. It is a timeless message about not giving up on people. Luke doesn’t give up on Vader so why should anyone in the ST give up on Kylo?
And as for Kylo’s acts being less evil than Vader… seriously… the younglings… Vader starts off with an act so horrible that not a single thing in the rest of the saga compares to it. Such things were only implied until the PT came out, but his force choking was pretty damned evil to start with.
Why did Lucas and Abrams include redemption for Vader and Kylo? Because we all need hope. Hope that we can change our worst aspects. And Luke in the ST falls into that line of thinking as well. What if we learned our lesson and changed and then fell back to our old habits. Yes, even that can be changed. It gives people struggling with demons hope of finding a way out. And who knows, the stories of their misfortunes might steer some clear of falling into the trouble in the first place. These are issues as old as our species. Vader and Kylo are fallen heroes. Those who made them fall do not fare so well, but they have the chance to be redeemed.
I’ll have to read it and see if anything could be nodded to in a fan edit.
Oddly enough, there are a couple lines in this (like verbatim) that I had the idea to include in a fan edit right after I saw the movie two months ago, way before the leak. I will say at this point I think only one of them can be accomplished, but still.
Full Colin Trevarrow script:
https://mega.nz/#!MegFDK7Y!dK6dhZsRXTmIgZ39l9719Macz1TQCZQtlhSCz0EdmOIThanks. I’ve added it to my script collection and I’ll give it a read when I have a chance. Again, I think having Kylo so conflicted for three films and it not ending in his redemption is a mistake.
It does end with his redemption though. At the end of the movie, Kylo learns how to drain the life force out of people, and uses it to drain Rey’s life force. Just when he’s about to kill Rey, Leia talks to him through the force, convincing him to give some of his life force back to Rey, sacrificing himself to save her. It’s a last minute redemption, but it’s still a redemption.
Here’s what’s dumb about this and why it is in no way a redemption: he is the one who is about to kill her, and his redemption is just deciding not to, and sacrificing himself so that she doesn’t die - except she still fucking dies.
Thanks for the detailed pro/con list. Sounds like the cons are pretty significant. I think what this story does with Kylo makes it worse than what we got in TROS. Make that Kylo and Poe. Sounds like he concentrated on Rey, Finn, and Rose.
Yes I agree it is an assembly and it would have had for instance different options included within it.
My point about montross is that this was turned into a continuation of the Jabba scene first and unwritten if we are to trust the actor that originally played greedo.
Then a new version was filmed during principle photography that allowed for another option and a much better way to do the scene.
It is an assembly of options all on the table at once. You will have multiple takes of scenes also perhaps strung together it would not be like watching a film but multiple versions of scenes with options. At 13 reels it will have a lot of alternate angles and various dialogue changes and tonality deliverance of lines from actors.
It’s not that there is a massive amount more just that there are options to what is there with a bit of deleted scenes naturally most things are alternatives than a deleted scene in film.
My dear Ronster, what came before the shooting script is of little importance because it WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN FILMED. There would be nothing to include in a rough cut of the film. That is what the lost cut is, a rough cut of the film. The first cut of the film I believe. It led to changing editors, lots of lines being trimmed, and lots of frames being trimmed in other places. So if you have valid information on something that was shot or if your research into trying to figure out if the shots in some scenes were reordered based on the sound mix, then you would contribute, but continuing to go back to much earlier drafts that had been discarded and bringing up theories that don’t fit the facts as we have them is just getting you in trouble. Download a copy of the shooting script. Read it. Memorize it. That is the guide to what was filmed. That was included in the lost cut. We know a heck of a lot about the filming schedule and can piece together if there was even room for anything extra, but there wasn’t money for it. So chances are that there was nothing filmed that wasn’t in the shooting script.
Look I made a mistake apologies about that but I did note that the Alien yet to be named Greedo apeared on 4th Draft revised not on 4th Draft so it is safe to assume that Montross became Greedo in the re-write that was the main point, but it negates the need for the Jabba scene IMO but would still be included in an assembly.
This is an alternate angle for scene D42.
I actually think you’re right about this. The novelization and Titleman script both describe this scene opening with the graphic of the star chart. They’re also in the same positions as in the final film. Either this is an alternate angle which they discarded in lieu of the single take used in the final film, or there was originally an establishing shot.
Or its a behind the scenes photo.
I feel like we’re missing the point here. In my opinion, the biggest problem with TLJ’s themes is how some actions are portrayed as heroic at first, then unheroic later. Poe’s dreadnought attack and the bomber run are portrayed as a brave sacrifice in the moment, but just a few scenes later Leia slaps him in the face for it. Holdo is portrayed as an incompetent idiot for most of the second act, until it’s revealed that she actually had an amazing plan all along, and all that work getting the audience invested in Poe, Finn, and Rose was useless. Finn’s suicide attack is portrayed as heroic, with dramatic choir music and slo-mo, up until Rose slams into him and tells him that sacrificing himself to save the Resistance is actually a bad idea. Rian’s storytelling style is thematic whiplash and slapping the audience in the face, and I feel like that doesn’t work when you’re supposed to get the audience invested.
Umm… that wasn’t slow motion in Finn’s attempt on the big gun. That was his ship slowing down because the weapon’s beam was powering up. And I don’t think you’ve watched enough old war movies or MASH. It really isn’t heroic or a victory if you lose most of your forces. Poe wasted his valuable resources for the glory of taking out a big target. Leia humbled him because she saw the potential for a true hero and the story molds him into that. It does deconstruct heroes, but only to the extent that it shows us how not to be a hero and how to really be a hero. Finn was going to die and the gun was not going to be hurt (not enough to even slow them down). Finn refused to see it and was going to try anyway. He is echoing Poe from the opening scene and he is taught the same lesson, but for Finn it is about starting the film by running away and ending the film by championing a cause and living to fight another day. Rian borrowed from a lot of WWII movies for his hero themes and he didn’t go against them, but showed us that bravado and heroics are not the same.
Too many.
ditto
have been doing some research on the various version of the 81 crawl that are out there and I have found a wide range. I think what I have discovered is that pretty much every copy that was used for home video transfers was an older copy that had the 81 crawl spliced in. The Spanish THX version is very telling. It does have the English 81 crawl. It doesn’t have the 20th century fox logo or music. It starts with the Dolby clip and then to the Lucasfilm logo with no music. Both the Lucasfilm logo and the A log time ago… card match with the rest of the film. The crawl and flyover do not. For one they are lower down in the frame than the rest of the film. Also, very much like the SSE 81 crawl is too dark and over contrasted, the contrast of the 81 crawl from the Spanish LD is lighter. I have yet to find two versions that are not from the same film source that match. I know of 5 distinct copies and no two are quite the same. Even the colors of the components vary slightly. I just wanted to see if I could pinpoint any major failures in my recreation and I have run out of things to check. I think the color of my planets and star destroyer might be slightly off, but I would rather err on the side of better matching the 77 crawl and the 97 crawl (from the BD and D+ sources) than try to dig further. I don’t think that the source we have are going to reveal much more and I think having it be too far off from the 77 crawl, the 97 crawl, and the only copy we currently have of the 81 crawl itself.
The SSE copy differs from the LD copies in a couple of ways. The planet is more pink, the atmosphere and moons are more blue, the Star Destroyer has not yellow tint to it. So overall, that 35 mm print, as bad as it is, makes me lean closer to the 77 and 97 crawl colors. So I think I might be done, except for inserting some things to make it less perfect.
Also, what file format and bitrate does everyone perfer for 4k output? I don’t work in that resolution myself, but I think making the master render at that resolution will improve the 1080p version (by scaling the 4k down).
Sorry just going back to the peter Mayhew script tweets about his shooting script.
I seem to remember a discussion about a scene which is yet another variation at mos - eisley docking bay. Somone coming to tell them that they did not have clearance for travel or could not take off… I don’t remember to be honest. But I do remember people getting excited about the potential character that pays a visit to the falcon before they take off.
Montross character you mentioned he pulls a gun on Han…
The thread is in the general discussions here somewhere in regard to peter mayhew tweets on his shooting script.
Sorry but I am really tired been a busy day I just do not have the energy to search for it right now.
Thanks for the script links
I think the principles likely ended up with a couple of drafts due to the revisions. The screen tests are all from an much older draft that bears little resemblance to the final shooting script. So unless we have a glimpse of the cover page to show us the draft and date, it is more likely to be an older draft and the scene in question was removed on revision and was never shot. All the footage I’ve ever seen matches the shooting script. I’ve never seen or heard of anything to indicate there are any scenes missing that we don’t know about. You have to remember just how much got dumped on the public back in the 70’s in terms of behind the scenes photos. We knew the Biggs scenes had been filmed, although they weren’t seen until the 90’s. so I’d be very surprised to learn now that there was anything of significance beyond alternate takes and what was cut from the shooting script in the Lucasfilm archives. Not impossible, but it would be something that Lucas imagined he might need. But the shoot was never that ahead of schedule or ahead of budget to do things like that. The evidence just doesn’t support it.
I’m more interested in what has made it out of the archives to be able to reorder and expand the movie to get closer to a previous edit. I really want to put in all the cut scenes (97 Jabba because I think they got some things right, although the base CG model is very wrong). And I would imagine that the lost cut had nearly all of those cut scenes in it (with the human Jabba).
Full Colin Trevarrow script:
Link removed by moderator
Thanks. I’ve added it to my script collection and I’ll give it a read when I have a chance. Again, I think having Kylo so conflicted for three films and it not ending in his redemption is a mistake.
I hope this isn’t too far off base, but this article (while interesting of itself) lists 2 early showings of Star Wars in 1977. The first isn’t dated, but the other was on May 1.
As we look at the state of the film, it gets closer to the final cut as we get closer to release, and closer to the lost cut as we go back.
I hope we can keep the discussion open about what was shot and what might be included in this cut. But I think it is clear that the Lost Cut we are discussing probably followed the script pretty closely and that a lot of trimming was done to get down to the final edit. I have an fan edit in mind that would put back and undo as many of the changes as are possible, but with the final music and FX left in place. So I am very interested in what all exists that we can use to get as close as possible to this cut.
I Think the video on the lost cut was good overall I have pointed out where I disagree on one point. I don’t really feel it is possible to talk openly about it here. If I start to try to explain why I said something it will cause even more trouble.
Nobody has to agree with my opinions I don’t mind people disagreeing with me. As much as I would like to elaborate on what I said and the reason why I said it and I do feel the greedo Rhodian character scene is legit I don’t think the actor under the mask is a liar. You will have to think about what I normally look for and what I normally talk about…
I don’t actually have anything else to say because it would not be relevant to the black and white first assembly…Although the falcon shoot out is.
You also must remember in the video from this thread it talks about the script being changed many times throughout shooting. I don’t think the script is entirely trustworthy because it is revised to not include many things we know that were shot. It would be good to have the one Peter Mayhew was sharing on twitter… That would be the one you need 😃
There are many versions of the script available, including several different revisions of the 4th draft (the final draft). I think that we know quite a bit about what was in the script at the time of shooting. What we don’t know are what Lucas decided to do on the fly during filming. I would guess very little, but there is little to go on. And I’m not saying the actor is a liar, only that he may not be remembering correctly. It happens to many of us.
I for one remain convinced that the DLP and DVD versions are the same, but I seem to be the only one. Everyone else assumes that the extension to the Lars garage scene with Anakin and Padme was added for the DVD, but I have my doubts about that.
The 35mm version definitely didn’t have it though, that’s a certainty.
I don’t agree simply because it seems that George can’t help changing things nearly every time he gets his hands on one of his films. Right now my guess is that they are identical or nearly so, but we don’t have that DLP version documented so it remains an unknown. Not knowing plus George’s habit of editing leads me to lean toward they are different in some way.
