It seems that other than just rumors and eyewitness reports (as well as in in theater recording of the 70 mm version), we now have official word what was changed and someone could use this to make a 70 mm cut of TESB.
https://www.starwars.com/news/empire-at-40-star-wars-the-empire-strikes-back-ending-changes?
It looks like all three of them are just the Blu-rays run through a sharpening/upscaling process. ROTS really suffers from sharpening artifacts while AOTC looks better for the process.
I’d say that they went back a generation. Not the actual BR version, but the master the used to make it. AOTC actually looks like it has more detail. I’m guessing whatever they did to “clean up” the image for the blu-ray is gone and they have “cleaned up” the video for 4k.
I personally think they have bought into Lucas and McCallums take that it isn’t possible. We know it is.
I am really curious as to how you got the 97DTS track to sync.
Is this reconstruction frame accurate so the audio just worked? Or did you have to make changes to the soundtrack to fit the video?
Since we have frame accurate versions of the 97se and the DTS tracks are by film reel, it is rather simple to align them and sync the video to it.
Yup, Blade Runner is a shining example of how the OT (and even PT) should be treated. Heck, even deleted scenes. Everything was cleaned up and polished and presented in a format that you can truly enjoy each of the 5 version of the film or the deleted scenes. Everything in 1080p, everything in a state that fan editors salivate over. That is what I want from an OT release. If you can do branching that would be awesome, but there are so many changes from the OT to the SE that isn’t very practical. So, like in 2006, a bonus disk with the OT. each version. There are 4 version of ANH and 2 of TESB and then the various soundtracks. And the SE PT done the same way with the different versions and soundtracks. And then a disc for the deleted scenes. A real set of deleted and alternate scenes… in color, cleaned and timed properly. But you’d have to have someone at Disney and Lucasfilm who cares enough to do this. I’d partner with Criterion for the release because they would love a project like this and wouldn’t be put off by the low profit margin that Disney cares about (and face it, we know they do).
Looking at the cap from above, thought I’d put together a comparison of “Here to Rescue Yous”
http://www.framecompare.com/image-compare/screenshotcomparison/7DKY7NNX
I think I got those all labeled correctly.
May I ask, is the last of these screenshots the 2019 Blu Ray or the 2019 4K?
It’s the 4K. It’s got a 3840x1610 pixel count.
It sounds like we need to rip the new BR’s and 4k discs and apply a lut to make the 4k version match the colors of the BR. From what I’ve seen the 4k versions have crap colors unless you discover what tinkering you need. Virtually all the 4k screen caps I’ve seen look like crap. Utter crap. So washed out and unlike any film I’ve ever seen in a theater. Natalie Kalmus would be appalled.
The 4K discs are orders of magnitude better than the new 1080p discs for colour and contrast on my GZ1000. Tone mapped screencaps on PC monitors don’t give a good or accurate representation of the 4K versions at all.
From what has been shared, I can’t see it. If you can’t even capture an accurate image of it, what good is it? It has the resolution but if this community is going to make use of that, the colors you claim to be seeing need to transfer over or they are useless. So if we can’t transfer them any other way, we copy the BR colors to the 4k image. Should be easy. I don’t care for 4k because of all the problems the format seems to be having. We can’t burn 4k disc, we can’t transfer HDR colors, can’t even get the right colors in screen caps.
It sounds like we need to rip the new BR’s and 4k discs and apply a lut to make the 4k version match the colors of the BR. From what I’ve seen the 4k versions have crap colors unless you discover what tinkering you need. Virtually all the 4k screen caps I’ve seen look like crap. Utter crap. So washed out and unlike any film I’ve ever seen in a theater. Natalie Kalmus would be appalled.
I hate new technology that is so inconsistent. One reason why I am not planning on getting the 4k box. I’m waiting for a US release of the BR box.
Having just watched TESB and then seeing that side by side, the CGI Yoda looks more like the original puppet than that abhorrent TPM puppet. I was watching and the puppet was alwasy looking at the ceiling while the CG actually meets the eyeline. And it has no expressions and looks drugged in the final scene. There is a reason we call it creepy and a reason why creepy is bad. The CG Yoda matches the rest of the PT. The only area where the puppet looks better is the hair. They f***ed that up in the CG, but the rest was well done. I fail to see why anyone who prefer that creepy version. It baffles me. Looks nothing like the TESB Yoda puppet. It was such a crap job that Frank Oz’s peformance is better joined to the CG.
Interesting. I forgot about these versions. I even recently made a custom Blu-ray using the TB version. Turns out I have a DVD copy of the “flunk” version. Looks pretty good and I like the colors.
Seems there was some considerable noise reduction applied to the master for the '97 SE, resulting in a motion blurring type appearance.
Not as bad as the GOUT master.
And if Disney doesn’t want to do such a release, let Criterion do it. They love things like that.
Some original color references
Production stills =/= color references
Often production stills can provide relative colors that help in color grading. This one shows that the guards were not a rich blue, but muted and from seeing the costume in person, a touch more green.
My biggest “compromised purism” in Star Wars is wanting to conform the BR cut of TPM to the theatrical cut - that is, keep the editing of the theatrical cut exactly, but with all the visual updates of the BR (CGI Yoda, mainly).
It’s the only one where something like that would outright replace any official version forever for me.
But Creepy Puppet Yoda™ looks infinitely better than CGI Yoda. CG Yoda constantly has his head at a downward angle and looks up at the people he’s talking to only with his eyes, and he lacks the little bit of expression that CPY had left. Screw consistency, I prefer a decent but weird puppet that looks nothing like the character over awkward CGI that still looks nothing like the character. 😛
I HATE creepy puppet Yoda. HATE!!!
My biggest “compromised purism” in Star Wars is wanting to conform the BR cut of TPM to the theatrical cut - that is, keep the editing of the theatrical cut exactly, but with all the visual updates of the BR (CGI Yoda, mainly).
It’s the only one where something like that would outright replace any official version forever for me.
I have made that version. Thanks to finding the original pod race sequence in HD. I had to do a custom edit to remove the speeder flight on Coruscant, but the extended scene has coverage to make it similar.
Zero is fun for a laugh, but he got toxic real fast when more reliable sources countered his and turned out to be true. I stopped watching when he started to go negative. But he has a great imagination. Just too toxic and right now I don’t care. What he made of the tiny leaks that went around was an incredible fantasy. Too bad he is wasting it on being so negative.
The versions you want to download if you speak English are the TB broadcast of the Trilogy. GKAR is in German (dual audio English German) and Reviax is in French (and ANH only) with dual language. If you are after image quality only, GKAR is the best (sharpest, least noise and blurring), but the one labeled TB is the best overall. They are better quality than the LD archived version, which is also a good choice since finding an LD player that can do them justice is very hard and very expensive. And even the best player won’t yield a good image for modern widescreen TV’s.
Maaga said:
There also seems to be a lack of rich blue that is suddenly corrected. Palpatine’s outfit turns really blue (and I love it) in one shot but that disappears in the next. I also miss the rich blue the royal guards had.
I had the chance to go to the Star Wars costume exhibit. None of the costumes for TPM had rich blues in them. Palaptine’s was dark turquoise and purple, and the guards were very dark. I too remember seeing TPM where it had very rich blues, but that doesn’t appear to be accurate to the actual film. And from the way the movie was processed, the Blu-ray version is probably more accurate to what was shot than whatever film print we saw in 1999. I think I was at a 70 mm premier. But the costumes definitely had no bright blues. The handmaiden costumes on the other hand were very intense orange and red. And that does show up in many shots. But I spent countless hours trying to get the blues I remembered until I actually saw the costumes in person and found out that there was no such blue in them.
it was done last minute, so no.
Why does Star Wars always have to end this way?
I mean, most of us still dig RotJ, but can’t deny that aspects were rushed & the film is hurt because of it.
RotS is an obvious rushed attempt to cram in what should’a been spread across all 3 films.
The PT & ST’s both should’a had a much better plan laid out before film rolled. Why fly by the seat of yer pants with such a HUGE franchise? Why not take comfort in knowing you have a solid plan before going into production?
You just proved that the way the ST was finished very much matches how George probably would have ended up doing it. He did have a script that he broke into 3 to make the original film, but he never followed that original plan. For the PT he and all of us knew that it would end with Darth Vader, but as you point out, the way he did it felt rushed. I thought AOTC and ROTS were far faster paced and felt more rushed than TROS. I guess it is kind of a story template at this point. I hope they drop it for any future movies.
Well, that is not what this group of people wants to see in a 4K release. So the BR of TPM is really the exact same film as before with perhaps some color tweaks. good to know. No need to both with any of the PT in 4k. But it is good to know they made a new master and have it and this is not it.
They had to make the most of what little Carrie Fischer footage they had, and making some sort of point to surround Leia handing her the saber was a way to do that. And having Leia’s own saber represent her reinforces that idea.
Although I wish it were a different color as to not be indistinguishable from Luke’s.
They did. Leia’s is blue and Luke’s was green. This is their father’s saber, which happened to be blue as well. Those sabers really don’t represent brother and sister, but father and daughter. Luke’s saber has only been seen in flashbacks.
I don’t think so. When Rey is on Tatooine burying the sabers, she sees Luke and Leia, not Anakin and Leia. I assume taking both siblings swords was moment which concerned the OT characters.
Luke used that saber, as Rey did, but it really belonged to Anakin. TROS followed ROTJ’s example for who the last Jedi sees. Luke saw the figures important to him and Rey saw the ones important to her. The sabers have no relation to the people seen. Rey interred them in the only place associated with the Skywalker family.
There is more changes thant those 4 known changes (ex: the invasion of Naboo was rerendered with different ships, the external view of Palpatine’s office was deleted, the sound was totally remixed) , but it is probably not the point of this discussion.
Ah, forgot about the Naboo invasion. After all these years my memory is a little blurry, but I want to say the view from the window of Theed Palace was re-done? Or are there other shots I’m forgetting about?
Yes, there are other shots. Ex: http://www.framecompare.com/image-compare/screenshotcomparison/1B01NNNU
That is the BR. That is a different beast entirely. My statement was 4 differences between the original theatrical version and the DVD/EU HD broadcast. The BR has a huge number of differences that I have not bothered to look at because other the 4 changes from the theatrical verison, they are all available in good quality HD.
There is more changes thant those 4 known changes (ex: the invasion of Naboo was rerendered with different ships, the external view of Palpatine’s office was deleted, the sound was totally remixed) , but it is probably not the point of this discussion.
Not sure what invasion scene you are talking about. I just went over the three shots of the landing craft descending and landing and not one frame has a noticeable difference. I checked the EU widescreen broadcast (which was before the changes and matches the VHS and Japanese LD) with the EU HD broadcast. Nothing with the landing craft was redone. And Palpatine’s office is part of the known change, so that isn’t something different. That change involves the transition from the preceeding and following scenes and the shots in the middle. There are only 4 known differences between the original and the DVD/EU HD broadcast.
Here is what you get with a 2k film in 4k. You get finer noise from video compression artifacts and so what you see is closer to the uncompressed 2k version of the film. So you do get a better film experience with 4k. Even if the content is upscaled. If the goal is as close to an uncompressed film experience as possible, then a 2k film on a 4k disc and a 4k screen is the closest you can get. It is not pointless.
Also, The Phantom Menace is not from any 1999 versions. The 1999 digital version (nicely captured and share in 1080p) is more cropped and has different colors. It was rescanned for the Blu-ray and has different colors and more image. If there is any piece of the 1999 DI, it is likely the original pod race sequence that was released in HD. It is more cropped than the BR but it doesn’t seem as cropped as the DVD and EU HD broadcast.
And I would like to see if anyone can confirm the subtitles. If any of the films have burned in subtitles on them I likely won’t want the set. I want a capture of TFA from Disney+ because it DOESN’T have burned in subs.
They had to make the most of what little Carrie Fischer footage they had, and making some sort of point to surround Leia handing her the saber was a way to do that. And having Leia’s own saber represent her reinforces that idea.
Although I wish it were a different color as to not be indistinguishable from Luke’s.
They did. Leia’s is blue and Luke’s was green. This is their father’s saber, which happened to be blue as well. Those sabers really don’t represent brother and sister, but father and daughter. Luke’s saber has only been seen in flashbacks.
ZigZig is 100% correct. The DVD was made from the same master as the VHS and LD from 2000. The only difference are the 4 known changes. This was also aired in the EU in HD. It features a more cropped picture and a different color grade. The BR was a new scan (it might have been 4k since we are talking 2011) and features the CG Yoda to match the other two PT movies. But this new version is NOT a new scan and features no known changes. Same colors, same shots, nothing new. And no sign that it was a native 4k scan (not that it would make any difference in the FX shots which were 2k to start with).
