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yhwx

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23-May-2016
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9-Jun-2023
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Post
#1152403
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Porkins4real said:

Luke in ROTJ puts down his lightsaber to face the emperor - the darkest man in the universe.

Luke in TLJ takes out his lightsaber and considers murdering his nephew in his sleep because he MAY turn to the dark side.

sounds like the same dude to me.

You’re missing the key context in ROTJ — Luke almost considers killing Vader which would complete his turn to the darkness.

Post
#1152401
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

DrDre said:

NFBisms said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

Literally the whole point of Luke showing up and making a scene is inspiring hope across the galaxy.

“The Rebellion is reborn today.”

The Resistance won’t be able to fit on the Falcon for long. This is made pretty clear in the film.

Yeah, but that all depends how the FO will rule the galaxy. It’s not two major organisations backed by various systems like in the OT. In ANH many systems were rebellung against the Empire, because it was oppressing the galaxy. Now it’s hundreds of thousands of troops versus fifty people. If the FO are smart, there won’t be a Resistance ever.

Luke didn’t just inspire little kids with brooms. He inspired everyone who sympathizes with the Resistance’s plight, including, as is implied, their allies in the Outer Rim.

Sympathy that will only last if the FO are an oppressive force. The Resistance have no allies. Their socalled allies in the outer rim didn’t answer.

If the FO set up a benevolent form of government, the Resistance will never rise again, and quickly fade into obscurity. That is as decisive a victory as victories can be. It’s completely up to the FO to drop the ball.

Not technically wrong about how the FO can win, but that’s probably not how it’s going to go lol.

They’re probably going to continue being an evil empire.

I suspect they will. 😃

If the FO continues to act as it does, then some sort of rebellion will win. All oppressive regimes eventually end. Oppression works in the short term but it will eventually lose.

Post
#1152393
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Collipso said:

But what he did to get to that point, the actions he took between RotJ and TFA were very out of character every step of the way for me, and that’s pretty hard for me to accept.

I think there could be a perfectly reasonable explanation for it. Luke snapped, just as he did in ROTJ. He was able to turn away from the dark at the last moment in both cases, but there was nobody to bail him out the second time and he was dealing with a very different situation.

Post
#1152390
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

Literally the whole point of Luke showing up and making a scene is inspiring hope across the galaxy.

“The Rebellion is reborn today.”

The Resistance won’t be able to fit on the Falcon for long. This is made pretty clear in the film.

Yeah, but that all depends how the FO will rule the galaxy. It’s not two major organisations backed by various systems like in the OT. In ANH many systems were rebellung against the Empire, because it was oppressing the galaxy. Now it’s hundreds of thousands of troops versus fifty people. If the FO are smart, there won’t be a Resistance ever.

Luke didn’t just inspire little kids with brooms. He inspired everyone who sympathizes with the Resistance’s plight, including, as is implied, their allies in the Outer Rim.

Sympathy that will only last if the FO are an oppressive force. The Resistance have no allies. Their socalled allies in the outer rim didn’t answer.

If the FO set up a benevolent form of government, the Resistance will never rise again, and quickly fade into a distant memory.

Well, duh, of course so. If the First Order became benevolent, there would be no Resistance because there would be no oppression to resist. But oppressive regimes rarely decide to suddenly become lands of democracy and puppies and happiness.

Post
#1152374
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

DrDre said:

yhwx said:

I find the argument that Luke was made too pathetic for this movie to be totally unconvincing. Sure, he’s pretty pathetic in the first part of the movie, but his final act is his finest hour. He does exactly what he does in ROTJ. He refuses to fight. Luke’s a pacifist, and that’s how he manages to win both times. He wins by letting himself die. Ruminate on that for a second.

If in WWII the Nazis were to have managed to beat the Allies so bad, they all fit in a single military transport aircraft, who then managed to escape, I would not call it a victory for the Allies. The Nazis win the war. Ruminate on that for a second. 😉

You’re mixing up Luke’s battle and the Resistance’s battle. They’re intertwined but different. I’m talking about Luke’s conflict with Ben. If the Emperor happened to kill Luke in ROTJ, would you call that a victory for him? We know it’s a victory for the Rebellion because they’re going to blow up the Death Star anyway.

Post
#1152370
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

I find the argument that Luke was made too pathetic for this movie to be totally unconvincing. Sure, he’s pretty pathetic in the first part of the movie, but his final act is his finest hour. He does exactly what he does in ROTJ. He refuses to fight. Luke’s a pacifist, and that’s how he manages to win both times. He wins by letting himself die. Ruminate on that for a second.

Post
#1152311
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Collipso said:

yhwx said:

The final Luke-Ren conflict was quite unbelievable. Luke was a hothead in the OT. Now, you can see that he has finally cooled down.

See, I felt this watching RotJ, so I didn’t care about this aspect of that scene. And like the comment that Dre answered above, a lot of people apparently are completely ignoring Episode VI in order to love VIII. Maybe not in order to, but apparently they are.

You’re partially correct in my view. Perhaps I should not have said “finally cooled down,” since I think you’re mostly right with regards to ROTJ.

There’s a lot of things that can happen in 30 years, so that kind of gives me a suspension of disbelief with regards to Luke becoming a cynical old man. Maybe that could have been explained in the movie better, but I’m not too broken up over it.

Post
#1152271
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

This is the most complex and multi-faceted Star Wars movie to date. There were many storylines to interleave — Ren’s inner conflict, Luke’s crisis of faith, Rey’s parent issues, Poe’s mutiny, Finn and Rose’s adventures. One may argue that this is simply too much for one feature film to handle. That may be correct. But the reason I like this movie is because I, in general, liked the individual stories. While the string connecting them may have been flawed, each storyline is a gem.

I absolutely love Luke in this movie. While he is a bit of a sarcastic asshole, that is central to his character and development. This is the first acknowledgment we get that the Jedi were stupid. The Jedi died because they were stupid. I feel like Luke’s faith conflict has many parallels to the real world. The holy are fine, their fan club is what’s wrong. The parallels between Luke in TLJ and Yoda in ESB are also a nice touch. Speaking with Yoda, the scene Luke has with him is amazing. It may well be my favorite scene of the film. Yoda, ever the wiser, does what Luke is unable to and destroys the tree. The dialog that follows is one of the best of the saga. In a way, Luke was never done learning from Yoda — he must still knock some sense into him. Yoda’s lesson about failure is one I think many can take to heart — and his line, “The greatest teacher, failure is” is now one of my favorite of the whole saga. The whole interplay cinematography and music in the final shot when they both look over the fire is phenomenal. My jaw was agape. Expertly done by Mr. Johnson.

The interplay between Rey and Kylo Ren is another great storyline through this movie. Their feelings are symmetrical in a way that your view in a mirror is symmetrical with you: same, but opposite. Both see something in each other — that they can both be turned to their respective sides. I feel like this is opposed to the slightly asymmetric nature of Luke and Vader’s relationship throughout the OT. Luke is clearly the more invested one in that relationship, at least outwardly. They aren’t having telepathic conversations. Ren’s character and Driver’s performance thereof is much stronger in this movie than TFA. Kylo taking the mask off is kind of a maturing experience for him — he’s not playing pretend anymore. His real conflict is that he has nobody to turn to — he’s alone. He killed Han, Leia is basically dead to him, Luke almost killed him, Snoke is abusive to him, and Rey will only accept him if she turns him.

With regard to Rey’s parents, I think I was becoming more and more convinced prior to this movie that she should have nobodies has her parents. For a moment, I almost thought that Ren would reveal to Rey that they were siblings — considering the way Ren thinks of his parents and the way he was describing things to Rey. The movie did the right thing in heavily leaning towards the direction of having nobody as Rey’s parents. I think the movie failed in not giving us enough of Rey — instead of not seeing her as the central character, you kind of see her has another piece in this massive chess game. Maybe that’s where the story’s massive scope turns out to be bad for the movie. I also enjoyed how Rey was pretty ignorant of what the Force was, and Luke’s “every part of what you just said was wrong” moment was great. If I were in Rian Johnson’s spot, I would have given much more attention to the interplay between Rey, Luke, and Kylo Ren.

I think the whole Canto Bight sequence could have been cut down by quite a lot. While there’s an important lesson there about the only rich people in the galaxy being these decadent, morally gray characters, there didn’t need to be a whole horse riding and prison set piece there. Also here, we get back to one of the ever-lasting problems of Star Wars, and that’s… timelines! The timelines here don’t really make sense. What do they say, six hours of fuel remaining on the cruiser? How could all of the Finn and Rose stuff happen in six hours? There must be some serious time dilation here if it were to be realistic. I know I’m talking about a magical space wizard movie, but still, even for Star Wars this doesn’t make sense. There was an inkling in the last movie that Finn might try to “hook up,” as it were, with Rey, and I’m glad that didn’t happen. I’ve always been of the position that Rey would never get into a romantic relationship — it doesn’t seem to me like it’s in her character. I don’t know; I’ll see where they go in the next movie. Finn didn’t get much character development in this movie. At the end, he’s basically the same person as he is at the beginning. I did like Rose and her arc. I feel that the OT didn’t really explain in a very adult, realistic way how bad the Empire was. Sure, we see it in Vader as the personification of the Empire and the Death Star, but we don’t hear how an oppressed person experienced the Empire. I like how we see that with Rose.

I don’t have much to say with regards to Poe and Holdo’s conflict. I don’t have many major gripes with it. In another timeline issue, the way these ships move through space seems absolutely unrealistic to me. Why the hell are they so slow? The slow-motion space chase did not appeal to me. I will say, wow, just how little the Resistance is organized compared to the Rebellion. The Rebellion had its stuff together, even when they were at their nadir. The Resistance clearly does not have that. I found that interesting.

In another “jaw fully opened” moment, I was stunned when Leia suddenly came back to life. I think I’m okay with that moment because Leia has force powers and this is the first time we see her use them. The way it was shot with her moving through space in this odd way could have been done better, but I’ll give it a pass. It’s unfortunate how Leia was sidelined for most of the movie until she comes back at the end. We now know she’ll never have her movie in the way that Han had his and this is Luke’s movie. But I will say one of my favorite moments is when Leia used the stun setting on Poe. The circle is now complete; now she does the stunning!

And that brings us into the absolutely exceptional last act of the movie. This is where everything comes together. Snoke, like the Emperor, is only using his apprentice to his gain. And now Smoke has turned against his apprentice. The whole scene was very ROTJ-esque, and that includes the red guards that we’re finally seeing do something. I don’t really get why they’re fighting against Ren and Rey — their master is gone, what do they have to fight for? Especially stunning was the moment where Holdo jumps into light speed. The absence of all sound made everything seem more poignant. Beautifully shot, as well. I also loved the Crait set piece and the added interplay between Finn and Rose. “I saved you, dummy” was another great line in the movie. I didn’t have any problems with the kiss that occurred thereafter.

The final Luke-Ren conflict was quite unbelievable. Luke was a hothead in the OT. Now, you can see that he has finally cooled down. The moment of him just standing there in front of First Order artillery, not resigned but at a strange piece, was particularly incredible. I’ll admit, my jaw dropped (again) when I saw Luke emerge out of all that fire unscathed, however, I couldn’t yet connect the dots as to how he was there. I chuckled at the “Do you think you got him?” line and when Luke shrugged off his shoulder. I was fooled until the last second; I only realized that Luke was projecting himself when we see him on Ach-to. So yeah, I’m a dummy… should’ve noticed the different hair color. Luke’s final line was a bit cheesy, but I will admit that did sound pretty badass, so I accept it. While the sunset imagery may have been a bit heavy-handed, seeing Luke become one with the Force was a pretty emotional and powerful moment. I felt it a fitting end.

So, in other words, I liked this movie.

Post
#1152039
Topic
Ranking the Star Wars films
Time

yhwx said:

yhwx said:

  1. The Empire Strikes Back
    Everything is bigger and better. Plot and script are great. May be considered one of the best films of all time.
  2. Return of the Jedi
    The needed sequel to The Empire Strikes Back. You can’t have one without the other. I can tolerate some of the lower points of the film. Overall, a great end to the trilogy.
  3. The Force Awakens
    A modern film in all the good ways. I like the diverse cast, the script, and the plot. Rey is great. Edges out Star Wars for me.
  4. Star Wars
    A solid film. Not as good as the other ones, but still great. It is very important in that it introduces all the characters.
  5. The Phantom Menace
    A terrible, terrible film. Edges out the two other prequels because it’s at lease semi-entertaining in its badness. Also contains some questionably racist characters.
  6. Attack of the Clones
    Absolutely horrendous. Bad for the same reasons all the prequels are bad: A terrible script. The “romance” story is spectacularly bad.
  7. Revenge of the Sith
    Taken on its own, Revenge of the Sith may be the best of the prequels. However, it finds its place at the bottom of the list because it failed at what it was supposed to do: Tell the story of how the good man who was Anakin Skywalker turn to Darth Vader. The first two also failed at this, and the last one failing is just sad. If I removed this factor, I might have put Attack of the Clones here.

Updated ranking, which I am not completely satisfied with:

  1. The Empire Strikes Back
    This will always be the best Star Wars movie. Great plot, characters, and dialog.

  2. Star Wars
    I didn’t want to bump this one all the way down to the number five spot with my addition of Rogue One, so I bumped it up here.

  3. Return of the Jedi / The Force Awakens
    No extra thoughts.

  4. Rogue One
    I think I liked Rogue One more than the average Star Wars fan. A great plot with some standout characters make it a great film.

  5. The Phantom Menace
    At some points The Phantom Menace gets to the so bad it’s good point, so that at least makes it half-watchable, plus it doesn’t really have anything to do with the rest of the movies.

  6. Attack of the Clones
    Ugh.

  7. Revenge of the Sith
    No.

I’m probably going to stay away from posting for a while now. Goodbye.

New ranking:

  1. The Empire Strikes Back
  2. The Last Jedi
  3. A New Hope
  4. Return of the Jedi / The Force Awakens / Rogue One
  5. The Phantom Menace
  6. Attack of the Clones
  7. Revenge of the Sith

I hated that I had to do a three-way tie, but c’est la vie.