thewolfnears said:
xhonzi said:
DuracellEnergizer said:
Hayden Christensen - Young Darth Vader
greenpenguino said:
Luke: Jake Lloyd
Er... did I take a wrong turn? Where am I? How did I get here?*
Once in a lifetime.
What have you done? (Hopefully you read my edit on that post.)*
Bingowings said:
xhonzi said:
Does the duel at the end of ESB not have any tension now that Return of the Jedi is out there?
The first time I saw ESB was a much more intense sensation than the second time.
So no, for me there is no longer any tension in watching the duel in ESB but there is the remembrance of the initial tension and the appreciation of the artistry that created it.
I am sorry for your loss. The death of one's willfull suspense of disbelief is a terrible thing.
Baronlando said:
But it probably could have been cool if handled well
Some kind of Cool... Hand... Luke?
Sorry folks, I'm here all week!
Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:
The whole saga would have been better, because the universe wouldn't have ended up so small and the storylines wouldn't be so constricted.
I disagree with this too. And I will use the same arguments that I used on Anchorhead (previous to his becoming a moderator) when he brings up this point.
Luke and Vader were always related. Whether he is the man that was his father's friend and then betrayed and murdered his father or he actually IS his father, they are still closely related.
The Leia->sister thing, where there was no previous close relationship, is what started to make people think it was a soap opera.
It's like Lando. It's not a coincidence that Lando was Han's friend and the previous owner of the Falcon. Han goes to see Lando BECAUSE of that connection. Yoda and Chewie being homeboys, however... is a different problem.
I think family is a big part of the story to me. The jails are full of people today, and I don't care. Heck, they can crack corn too, and I still don't care. They're probably just bad people who deserve to be in there. All of that dat corn crackin'... PEOPLE OUT HERE ARE TRYING TO SLEEP!
But if my dad went to jail... even if I knew he was guilty... man I'd work to get him out. Whatever it was he did... I'm sure he won't do it again. He's learned his lesson. So why don't we just commute that sentence and get back to father-and-son campouts.
Besides, if he stays in there too long... he might start cracking corn.
And then I would care.
danaan said:
xhonzi said:
danaan said:
So, Luke can't win by fighting, but he also can't avoid the fight! That's a very precise moral dilemma (which the PT, btw, ruins),
I'm sure I won't disagree with you, but please elaborate on this point. What in the PT influences this moment in RotJ?
Well, the point in ROTJ is that IF Luke kills his father, strikes him down in anger, drawing upon the Dark side to fuel himself, THEN "his journey towards the Dark side is complete". I.e. IF a Jedi kills in anger, THEN he will become a darksider.
In AOTC, Anakin kills an ENTIRE village of sandpeople in anger (their guilt in his mother's death is irrelevant) and REMAINS a good guy. So, if Anakin can do that, why can't Luke kill his father and still be a good guy at the end of ROTJ. So, what the PT is telling us is that this wonderfully balanced finale is all mumbojumbo and that Luke should just shove his lightsaber in his dad's face and then what the old chuckling geezer in the gape. And then maybe flip them some badass comment...cuz, why not?
Oops. Looks like I do disagree afterall. I don't think this is the PT speaking (given that I am an ardent anti-PT guy) but I don't think the Emperor was exactly right when he said that to Luke. I wrote this all out long hand years ago, so let me just direct you here:
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Luke-VS-the-Emperor-What-if-Vader-hadnt-been-there/post/401848/#TopicPost401848
and here:
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Luke-VS-the-Emperor-What-if-Vader-hadnt-been-there/post/403366/#TopicPost403366
The long of the short of it is this: I don't believe the path to the Dark Side is that short.
Yoda said that once you indulge the Dark Side, forever would it direct your path. He didn't say that you became a mindless zombie and threw away all of your previous convinctions after one puff.
*cough*Revenge of the Sith*cough*
Hippie!
Bingo,
I still disagree. I have seen several movies either based on real events where everyone knows who dies or fictional events where they straight up tell you who dies at the beginning and yet I'm still surprised at the end when it actually happens.
or heck
even movies I HAVE SEEN BEFORE and still find tense scenes to be tense, even if I know how they end.
This argument sort of says that any scene in the middle of a film can't be tense because you're relatively guaranteed no heavies will die at least until the end of the film.
And it says that as soon as a movie has a sequel, that the original can no longer have any tension.
Does Raiders have no tension, now that they've made Last Crusade?
Is Wrath of Kahn no good since they've made... all of the rest of them?
Does the duel at the end of ESB not have any tension now that Return of the Jedi is out there?
DuracellEnergizer said:
Hayden Christensen - Young Darth Vader
greenpenguino said:
Luke: Jake Lloyd
Er... did I take a wrong turn? Where am I? How did I get here?*
Just a place to drop of your old signature when you don't need it anymore. Maybe someone else can get some use of it then.
I guess you can dump you old Avatars here too.
Oh, and I definitely don't care who C3PX or CP3S is snogging this year. I'm totally over him.
danaan said:
So, Luke can't win by fighting, but he also can't avoid the fight! That's a very precise moral dilemma (which the PT, btw, ruins),
I'm sure I won't disagree with you, but please elaborate on this point. What in the PT influences this moment in RotJ?
Good times in this thread... good times.
Happy Last Valentines Day everybody.
Bingowings said:
Making the Jedi the focus of the PT was a huge mistake because we already know they all dead bar two in the OT.
It then becomes a case of rubbernecking the sinking Titanic.
THERE IS MORE TO DRAMA THAN WHO DIES AT THE END!*
zombie84 said:
That works, but only if the entire movie is a dream, and then you have no actual reality with which to base that on.
Not so! In this interpretation, none of the movie is a dream/fake. Everything happens exactly as is presented at face value. All of the coindicences (Quaid got exactly what he wished for) are explained that it wasn't his imagination, it was his suppressed memories.
Mrebo said:
As I continue to think things out, go back and read/watch critical reviews of the PT, and write out some scenes, I'm starting to think it would be best to not make this the Tragedy of Anakin Skywalker.
I think RLM had a point that it should have been the story of Obi Wan Kenobi. In the OT, Obi Wan was there to pass the torch. It is more impactful if Obi Wan was the central heroic figure of the PT rather than the mentor of the hero. Especially if Anakin as main hero ends up being reckless, weak and ultimately villainous (or dies an ambiguous death for those of us trying to preserve OT surprises) before simply being cool villain in the suit for most of the OT.
This made me think of Cornelius and Ceasar and how the narrative (relatively) seemlessly (perhaps due to the same actor playing both parts) transitions from father to son.
I see no reason why the central protagonist can't be Anakin. The backdrop is about the fall of the Republic, why can't the personal connection be the fall of the great hero. The trick is that he has to be a great hero first. Not just some guy who ends up kind of near the action and becoming a pawn to the real bad guy.
My outline has always ended with the battle between former friends- Anakin trying to prove the inherant strength of the Dark Side and why Kenobi should join him. Kenobi trying to prove him wrong in the only way he will understand- violence. Remind you of any battles from the OT? And then, as they say, it's all fun and games until someone gets totally dismembered and burned to an apparent death.
Then the narrative actually shifts to Luke, the unborn son. Ricardo Montleban puts him in the cage with Aunt Beru and tells him that his father was a magnificent animal Jedi. Then, as the caravan leaves town, Luke grabs the bars and starts saying "You're beginning to sound like a separatist!".
FADE TO BLACK
Mrebo said:I'm struggling to deal with Bail Organa's place. I see his storyline as separate from those of the main heroes most of the time - yet he is an important figure.
Just a reminder: General Kenobi served Bail in the Clone Wars.
zombie84 said:
Total Recall is like this too.
<snip>
It just seems obvious, especially since everything the guy said would happen does--part of the adventure is believing that it's all real in the moment and not just a fantasy.
OR! It could be his subconscious leaking through the blocks they put on his brain. Why does he want to go to mars? Because he used to live there. Why does he want to be a secret agent? Because he used to be one. Why does he want to leave his wife? Because she's Sharon Stone. Why does he want the exact woman he describes from his dreams? Because they used to hang.
You feelin' me, Zombie?
zombie84 said:
SilverWook said:
Harmy said:
Well, the thing is, I'm sure you can always watch a 3D film in 2D.
Are 3D Blu Rays "backwards compatible" with 2D viewing?
My understanding was that they are not. But you can buy...2D glasses? I'm not sure what to call them, but you wear them and it makes it look like 2D. They made them for people who get headaches from the 3D. But if 3D becomes an industry norm then I'm sure there will be TVs or players made where it converts the image back into 2D.
Harmy said:
Stereo 3D consists of 2 2D images, so you should always be able to just view only the left or the right eye picture, there's no "conversion" involved.
Speaking as the owner of 3D blu-rays, the official answer is:
It depends.
It's stored on the disc as two separate streams. The left eye is in the "regular" place that right eye is in a "special folder". If you don't have a 3DBD player, it knows not to look for the other content and therefore just ignores it. It plays the left eye as the 2D version.
~HOWEVER~
(and this is a big one)
The menu software on a 3DBD may detect if the player is 3D compatible. If it's not, the menu may prevent playback of the disc at all. I think ALL Disney 3DBDs are like this. A quick rule of thumb is: If it comes in a multi-pack with a 2D only BD, it's likely that the 3DBD won't play in a normal 2D player.
Some 3DBD players have the option to just display left or right eye, and a lot of 3DTVs have the option as well. However Disney would really like you to watch the 2D disc if you're watching it in 2D since they do some fancy stuff in 3D besides presenting you with another eye.
For example, the 2D version of Tangled is "shot" with a narrow focus. The green hills in the distance are a soft green blur. The 3D version is "shot" with deep focus and individual trees are seen on distant hills. The extra detail on the trees allows the eyes/brain to gauge the simulated distance of the trees much better than an out-of-focus green smear.
Also, Disney is a fan of "floating windows" for 3D, which means that the black matte surrounding the picture is often changing shape and size. For any 3D shot, there is a plane perpendicular to the viewing angle which represents the screen. Depending on the shot, this plane may or may not be the same distance from the viewer as the actial screen. Since the black matte is a negative object, it should always be at screen depth, not floating in front of or behind the screen. So the 2D depiction of the black matte moves to match.
The left eye stream has been optimized to be part of a 3D presentation and isn't the same as the 2D stream. So, to maximize quality for both 2D and 3D, Disney (and some others) provide separate versions which don't compromise for the sake of the other viewing method.
Also, the potential bitrate per eye is higher in 2D, since it's only providing half as many pixels.
Finally, the extra space 3D video takes on the BD comes at the cost of space for special features. Some features can be moved to a "feature" disc, but others (like commentary or enhanced viewing modes) can't, so the 2D version is also required if those kind of features are to be included.
bkev said:
Taking dialogue from the tv series wouldn't fix Bayformers would it? Also, consider the amount of work that would have to go into reverse engineering the sound so there was no sfx or dialogue behind the lines from the show. Unless, of course, there's a surround mix that I'm unaware of.
What's wrong with bayformers?
1. Dialogue, to a degree.
2. Focus on stupid human characters
3. Bizarre plot twists that can't be followed and don't make any sense.
What else?
I think you could fix the 3 above problems, if you were dedicated to the cause in an Adywan kind of way.
How wude.
Can Anakin accuse people of sounding like Separatists the whole movie long?
Quick thought.
Intro with Cybertron and description of the battle between Autobots and Decepticons.
Show Decepticons come to earth for some reason.
Optimus Prime comes to stop him.
No Shia.
Señor Spielbergo said:
It is a rewrite. IMHO, even if the characters are different, I'd rather not have to ingest a bunch of made-up names of characters and planets. I'm working around the source material, not completely throwing it out.
Ah, my mistake. I guess I'm not interested, then.
Familiar character names are for convenience and context.
Er... how convenient is it and what context do you get when they're not actually the same characters?
Señor Spielbergo said:
I've just written a treatment. It's here for all to read: http://kinoflim.blogspot.com/2012/02/alternate-star-wars-prequels-first.html
Truth be told, as soon as I read Maul, I almost bailed. And then I read Amidala and I totally bailed.
I started to take a look and liked the intro, but I have to offer the same advice I've offered many times before.
Offered many times before:Please, for the love of Mike, don't reuse Prequel specific names!
Especially when the entire character has been changed. It is so very distracting.
Also, many people will be reading your work to forget the offical Prequels, so don't jump right in and remind them of them.
Perhaps* this article will sway some of you ""Used Games are the Devil" folks.
You/I know who you are.