twooffour

ray_afraid said:

twooffour said:

 

However, I'd vehemently disagree with the part where you say the scene is inserted "for nothing more than a CGI mess".

You certainly haven't read my post.

So, because we disagree, that means I didn't read you post? Right.

Not really, it's just if you reply to a post of mine where I, at great length, describe all the "cool stuff" in that particular scene, line specific lines, or mannerisms (or the fact that this Jabba is much better than the original nervous guy in the funny hat, and makes some of the lines here more ironic than they'd been originally), as a direct pre-emptive rebuttal to the "this is just for more stupid CGI" attitude - I'd reasonably expect you to actually somewhat address my sentiment, and why, despite all the bullshit I'd said, you still think this scene has nothing more to offer than "stupid CGI mess".

Just saying "it was a stupid CGI mess" in one lazy sentence, is something you would do if you... hadn't read my post.


I mean, what kind of dialog is that?
"Lucash just included the scene to show off silly fake CG"
"Well let me refer you to my post above, where I have 10 examples arguing that it's more than that"
"... it's just stupid CG".

Whatever floats your boat, man.

OMG, the DRAMA!!!

:D

Gaffer Tape said:

If you really feel that compelled to flatter yourself, fine.

Wait, where did I flatter myself?
All I said was that you completely misread just about everything I've written in the last couple days, judging by your replies - that doesn't mean my posts were somehow terribly good.

But I stand firmly by everything I wrote, and I have no reason to be embarrassed that you rambled in response to it.

The fact that you demonstratively declare to be standing firmly and proudly by a clear misconception on your part, is what you should be embarassed about.

All I said was that the inclusion of aliens with recognizeable ethnic / national features from actual cultures on Earth, shattered suspension of disbelief by "suggesting" social commentary.
I've never insisted that it had anything to do with such characters being "bad", or "annoying" (the Neimoidians just happen to be), or that any of that was inherently "offensive".

You response above indicated that you hadn't got ANY of this, because you just couldn't be bothered.

The only thing I'm embarrassed about is being naive enough to defend you when you first started posting here.

I honestly don't even remember that.
However, if you actually "defended" something I wrote, could it be that it was because you actually found my posts valid? Because otherwise you'd be a sycophant. ;)

I only deleted my comment because I realized it was useless to attempt to have a polite and intelligent conversation

In order to even begin to have an "intelligent conversation", you need to first pay attention to what the other party is saying.
What is "useless" is contuing to reply even though you clearly can't be bothered with that.

with someone who so richly deserves to get kicked in his pretentious e-nuts (thank you, Frinky!).  'Kay?

You know it's funny, I don't recall saying anything about "kicking your stupid arrogant ass" to you, or to Frink, anywhere in this thread.
Nor do you see me preaching politeness, or getting "offended" at "respectless" treatment.

But then again, seeing as how pointing out that you haven't been paying basic attention already gets you offended, your reaction isn't a surprise.

PS: Don't "bother" addressing how inept your Nien Numb example was, just keep complaining about my "pretentiousness".

Tyrphanax said:

Thanks to this thread, I now see that all faked accents in movies are racial stereotypes with intent to offend.

Wherever you got that idea.

Tobar said:

twooffour's favorite Star Wars character.

...wwhat, i don't even

Gaffer Tape said:

EDIT: You know what? Nevermind. You're just not worth it.

But, by the way, Nien Nunb speaks an actual African language.  Has that ever pulled you out of the movie?  Have you ever spent serious time contemplating why there are Africans in space?  Or did you just accept it?

Hehe - too late!
Next time, read the post you're replying to, then maybe you won't have to get embarassed and delete your comment.


EDIT:
Ah, the vagina face guy... well, the question is, did they try to pass him for an African in space, or were they just too lazy to make up another gibberish alien language like the "Huttish", so they just pieced together words from an actual African language in hope no one would notice?

Or was it maybe some kind of inside gag? Like, a linguistic bonus?

I mean, very obviously, someone who maybe knows 2-3 European languages, and is otherwise familiar with the "sound" of other languages, or language groups, as well as popular ethnic stereotypes, will perceive Vagina Face Guy way differently from a linguistics expert, or a native... African... just watching their own native language (whatever it is) getting raped into pieces in order to be sold as "foreign, lol" to the dumb Cola drinking Americans?
There might be some annoyance involved (some offense, if you're dense), or maybe some amusment, but the average person will just perceive it as: foreign gibberish. Which was the main intent from the get go.


The Neimoidians, on the other hand, were given immediately recognizeable "Asian" accents that the vast majority of the audiences would easily identify as... "Asian".

The two examples aren't even comparable.

Gaffer Tape said:

twooffour said:

At any rate, it could be any of the above - all I know is, I can somewhat chuckle at the goofiness of it, but ultimately, I find the Neimoidians with their inept botox faces and silly accents much more annoying than amusing, and that's what counts for me.

And there you go.  After all the condescending and pretentious arguing from you, we finally get to the real reason:  you find the effect to be annoying.  There.  Why was that so hard to say?  Why couldn't you have just said that instead of posturing behind a whole bunch of crap about the jarring effects of dialects?

(Oh, and by the way, Nien Nunb speaks an actual African language.  Has that ever pulled you out of the movie?  Have you ever spent serious time contemplating why there are Africans in space?  Or did you just accept it?)

No idea who Nien Nunb is - but obviously, nothing I said applies if the viewer isn't familiar with the language in question.
If someone gave me a sample of Elvish and told me that it's an actual archaic language, do you think I'd not buy it?

I like how you call MY arguing pretentious, while you were the one philosophizing about the "limited scope" of viewers considering their own ethnicity the center of the universe (completey understanding everything I'd written) without realizing that the actual movie was at fault, doing exactly this.

At any rate, no, the fact that I find the Neimoidians lame and annoying, has nothing to do with what I'd said earlier.
The fact that having an alien from another planet posing in a CLEARLY RECOGNIZEABLE ETHNIC GUISE breaks suspension of disbelief and suggests allusion and allegory, doesn't say anything about whether it's well-made and intentional, or unfunny and "offensive".

Clearly, you once again haven't read anything I've written, or paid any attention, otherwise you wouldn't have posted what you just did ;)
If you don't like me pointing this out, then, well, that's too bad.

TV's Frink said:

I see you've at least learned one lesson from your temp ban.  Well done.

I suppose the question is WHY did Lucas give the Nemoidians Asian accents?  Did he think they sounded cool?  Menacing?  Did one of his kids suggest it?*

Or did one of the actors do it as a joke and he made them reshoot all their scenes because he liked it so much?

I was banned for indirectly calling M3mma a "dunce", if you recall. You've seen me posting stupid images with worthless excuse commentaries already in the first days of my time here, so what lesson have I "learned", exactly?


At any rate, it could be any of the above - all I know is, I can somewhat chuckle at the goofiness of it, but ultimately, I find the Neimoidians with their inept botox faces and silly accents much more annoying than amusing, and that's what counts for me.

It might've been a homage to some old camp movie Lucas enjoyed, that had sleazy Asian villains in it. Anything.

They speak in French accent in the German version, which fits just as "well" (now they're sleazy Euro trash, and their pissy, prissy attitude fits the stereotype, too), but I prefer SpongeBob.

I herebeye past this still image:

ray_afraid said:

twooffour said:

that one line about Jabba's intolerance for lousy smugglers is really the only "sore thumb" in the whole business.

What about Han telling Luke and co. that he needs to get going because he's rushed? Originally, it was true. Jabba was sure to be pissed when he found out that Han just blasted his messenger and then took off to god knows where. In the Special Edition version, not only is Jabba not very upset at the loss of Greedo, but also gives Han more time! He isn't "rushed" in the least! Also, IMO, it stops the flow of the film dead in it's tracks for nothing more than a lackluster CGI mess that makes the previous scene with Greedo unnecessary. ALSO it ruins the big reveal of who and what Jabba is in Jedi.

Was Han really talking about Jabba, though?
That scene was directly intercut with an Imperial spy tracking Luke and Ben to the ship; directly before that, some of the stormtroopers had "taken an interest in their handiwork".
There was a very urgent sense of rushing and menace in that scene, directly related to the Imperials. Solo upped the price as soon as he learned that they were trying to escape / avoid the Empire.

Jabba however? How long would it take him to learn that some thug of his got shot in a bar? Was that hinted in the movie anywhere?



At any rate, I obviously agree that it doesn't do the pacing any good and sticks out with its redundant exposition (Han repeats the same line fromt the Greedo scene) - not least because I've already said that in my previous post.

However, I'd vehemently disagree with the part where you say the scene is inserted "for nothing more than a CGI mess".
You certainly haven't read my post.

TV's Frink said:

Gaffer Tape said:

twooffour said:

Then you probably haven't paid attention.

And now I roll my eyes at you.  I was tempted not even to read the rest of your post after that insulting of a start...  So thanks...

I see you've met twooffour.  He should just make his avatar a big eye roll to save us all time.

I like how (and this seems to be already the third time this day) you keep dancing around and replying to my posts dropping all these snarky, condescending remarks, while proudly admitting how you don't read any of them.

Let me let you in on a little secret: no one cares about your lack of interest. If you don't have anything to contribute, then, well, you don't, and you're not interesting - and boldly asserting how you "can't be bothered", or "stopped reading", or "just keep rolling your eyes without even looking", doesn't make up for that.

Oh Boo Fucking Hoo, now you're offended at the "insulting" remark... should I lend you a towel?


"That and a completely localized mindset that sees itself as neutral and everything else as foreign."
If you quit playing "pretentious culture critic of primitive mindsets in our society" for one second, and just stop to wonder "how often, in everyday life, do I consciously realize that I'm speaking a particular language, rather than... just talking to people?", what conclusion do you reach?

I don't know how it's with you, but I speak Russian at home, German outside, and in both cases, I basically just... communicate. Of course, certain impressions / dialects / intonations are typical of one particular language and you kinda become more conscious of it in those moments, but normally, it's nothing I particularly register.

Similarly, if I watch a movie or lecture or sketch in any of those languages (or English, if the speaking isn't too fast) - I may realize that I'm watching a synchro right now, but generally, I perceive less of the "language" and more of the... "talk".

I don't need to possess some kind of "limited scope" or "primitive localized mindset" in order to think like that - it's just how the human mind works when working in a familiar environment (in this case, language), and I bet yours does, too.


Again, for the slow ones (if you've already got it by this point, this obviously isn't addressed at you, so no need to be offended :p), it's not about national identity, it's about feeling so much at ease with a language (the native one, mostly) that you lose the need to concentrate on it, and can easily blend out in your mind that right now, you're listening to ENGLISH, or FRENCH.
It's just... talking. Direct communication.

As soon as OTHER LANGUAGES (even hints at such, in the form of accents) come into play, your attention is immediately drawn to the identity of those languages, and the illusion is broken.
Or, I dunno, can you listen to an alien inexplicably talking in a French accent, and just accept it as "kinda foreign" without particularly caring for the fact that it's, well, French? I certainly can get distracted from that, but the fact that the aliens are FRENCH still remains on the surface all the time.


You're saying:
"At that point, the burden is on your (generally speaking) limited scope, not on the work."
... which just serves as a demonstration that replying through the lens of pretentious snobism probably ain't the way to go.

What, now my limited scope is at fault? Hold on a second, we're talking about a movie... in which ALIENS... speak an Asian accent, while the HUMANS... speak English.
In a movie where all the main characters are human, that is made for a human audience, who do you think would be "us", and who the "foreign" races? Well, the aliens would be the foreign race.
So if they talk in an accent, who's enforcing the "my language is us, others are foreign" mentality, the movie, or "my limited scope"?

Please THINK for a second before replying.



"Accents and dialects are the same thing."

Sort of, but an accent is distinctively "foreign" to the respective language, while a dialect is just a version of the same language, and not even necessarily localized (unless there's something wrong with my definitions).

Dialects, or manners of speech, can belong both to specific locations, as well as social classes and the like.
Youths may stereotypically speak in a different manner than snobby old professors, but this has nothing to do with localized dialects anymore, it's now 100% characterization.

My point is, it's all about suspension of disbelief, and while I can imagine accepting a Texan droning alien as a "rural hillbilly type" without feeling any connection to "the South", somewhat, a French alien is where my mind draws the line, and from that moment on, it's 0% characterization and 100% ethnic caricature.




"It's whether it's supposedly "jarring" to not sound American. "
I already said above that this hasn't anything in particular to do with being "American", so I don't see any need to go on with this reply.

At any rate, I'm not talking about offensive racism, in terms of "negative" depictions, but merely about suspension of disbelief.
I can easily accept a space movie with English (or German, or Russian) talking humans, and Aliens talking some invented gibberish. It's just humans, and aliens. So then the humans just happen to be from the country where I understand the language, I can relate to that, and I don't feel any urge to wonder "where all the Russians and Hispanics, aren't they also on Earth?". If there ARE ethnic humans in the team, the better - they do that a lot, too.
But I can't accept alien races suddenly talking in ethnic accents, just to appear foreign - that just screams satire / parody / lazy slop / primitive mindset of the author, and it's hard to get over that.


;)

TV's Frink said:

timdiggerm said:

Come to think of it, maybe the (possible) racism of some of the accents in the PT isn't that they have certain accents - It's that the accents are played for humor?

Well then I'm really racist! ;-)

The fact that the VILLAINS are inept Asian caricatures, is the racist part.

Although, frankly, I do believe that using "racist" in application to these cartoon characters, is an insult to actual racism.
To pass for racism, these caricatures need to carry some sort of malicious undertones, and these inept toads are just way too innocent for that.

Caricature alone doesn't make racism, it only makes comedy (in the case of TPM, poor comedy).

Gaffer Tape said:

twooffour, your argument against dialects makes no sense to me. See, the thing is, EVERYBODY has a dialect of some sort. Even if you stuck everyone with the same "American" sound... guess what, that's still a dialect! The only people who refer to "American" as "no accent" are Americans! Everybody has to has to have some sort of speaking pattern. It's inevitable. And if you can accept that everyone in space can sound like an American, why can't you accept that they can sound like any other Earthly nationality? Why is it that space farers sounding like Americans is totally realistic, but space farers sounding Asian completely blows the suspension of disbelief? Either you can accept all of it, or you can't accept any of it, but it doesn't make any sense to criticize one and not the other because it's doing exactly the same thing either way: giving an Earth dialect to non-Earth people.

Then you probably haven't paid attention.

This has nothing to do with English being somehow more realistic than other languages. It's merely about USING THE AUDIENCE'S NATIVE LANGUAGE in order to facilitate a direct connection.
If the movie's in French, it'll obviously be in French - just so that people can understand everything that's going on without having to read subtitles, or stuff like that.

The native language mostly appears neutral to its native speaker, i.e. merely as "language". However, as soon as you start putting actual, foreign languages into it, they'll be immediately recognized as "ah, that one belongs to that ethnicity or nation", and suspension of disbelief is suddenly much more strained.
Worse, by having aliens identifiable as "Asian" or "Russian" or whatever, you immediately draw the viewer's attention to the fact that, well, our guys aren't just talking to each other, but they talk ENGLISH, and hence must be British or Americans. What had previously been an innocent adventure film with everyone talking in an understandable language, suddenly becomes some sort of cultural/political allegory.

I'd say this applies even more to foreign languages, and ACCENTS, than dialects. Dialects can still be easily perceived as "characterization" - southern drone for the down-to-earth hillbilly type, aristocratic BE for the fine cultured villain, King James' Olde Butcherede for the "ancient wizards from the ancient times, of wizardry".
But careful - the two "urban" robots in Transformers were just merely "dialecting" as well, and look where that got 'em.

However, as soon as you've got a sleazy French guy, he'll be a FRENCH, and directly perceived as such. The viewer will immediately start wondering whether this is some kind of allegory, satire, or maybe just the author's stereotypes played straight, and the glass house is immediately shattered.


So if you've ever wondered why everybody's complaining about the Neimoidians, but hardly anyone gets offended by Vader saying "thy bidding", the above might be the reason.

Now that's racist! :D

As for editing Greedo, well, you could have Solo say "I don't have it with me", and then tweak Greedo's subtitles to make him say something that goes over into "he may only take your ship", but I can't imagine a seamless way to do it. But that one line about Jabba's intolerance for lousy smugglers is really the only "sore thumb" in the whole business.

Can't really edit it out of the next scene, as it would show if Han suddenly stood at the right of Jabba's in the next frame ;)

So ultimately, leaving out Jabba completely would still be the best choice for the movie. Which they did in 1977 :D



PS:
Here's a scene that should've stayed out, though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaUsa14SYsg#t=98

TV's Frink said:

twooffour said:

"If I were to attempt to introduce a beginner to Star Wars, Kaminski's book would be required reading ahead of time.  They would have to know the history away from the marketing spin."

I'd say the first film holds up pretty well on its own. Just tell 'em that those few goofy CGI parts are new, and that should be enough.

PS:
Just my little opinion on the inserted Jabba scene - while it does contain redundant exposition , seems to make little sense at that place, and Solo stepping over the tail looks kinda hokey, I still like it a lot.

Sorry, I stopped reading right there.

Well, you know, if you can't be bothered to look at the reasoning behind this "outrageous" statement, then your opinion isn't really interesting to me, now is it? ;)

DuracellEnergizer said:

If you're going to put the Jabba scene back into ANH, it only makes sense, IMO, to remove/drastically edit the Greedo scene. You can't keep the both of them as they are together without unneeded redundancy creeping in.

And it would've sucked even more. Imagine the viewer reaction to "omg, they inserted a scene with some redundant exposition!", and now compare it to "SHIT JUST GOT REAL, LUCAS RAPED THE GREEDO SCENE SO HE COULD HAVE CG JABBA IN IT AHHH!!!!1!!".

It sounds like a nice idea, but only as some sort of DVD option (or special feature) that would let you watch it (seamlessly) as an alternative version.
Then they could've tweaked the Greedo scene somewhat (the "even I get boarded" line probably even fits better with Jabba), tweaked the Jabba one, too, and then have it all fit together.

But just cut out chunks out of Greedo and then put it on the DVD like that? No Wai!
Removing it? Doesn't work, they keep talking about Greedo in the next scene.

"If I were to attempt to introduce a beginner to Star Wars, Kaminski's book would be required reading ahead of time.  They would have to know the history away from the marketing spin."

I'd say the first film holds up pretty well on its own. Just tell 'em that those few goofy CGI parts are new, and that should be enough.

PS:
Just my little opinion on the inserted Jabba scene - while it does contain redundant exposition , seems to make little sense at that place, and Solo stepping over the tail looks kinda hokey, I still like it a lot.
The way Jabba delivers lines like "why did you fry poor Greedo" is just way hilarious, and just screams "classic mafia boss homage".
While you may "blame" the quality in this scene on the fact that it was, well, shot way back before 1977, I find it hilarious and impressive how a lot of the natural irony in the dialogue and behavior comes from retroactively replacing that nervous, hammy old dude with, well, Jabba.
Han's respectless and laid-back attitude, the way Jabba gives in to the bargaining, and last but not least, the "you're a wonderful human being" line, all seem so much funnier.

Some people find it inconsistent how Jabba is such a wuss in this scene, but such a monstrous badass in Jedi. Though I think it adds a lot of charming irony to it all - Han KNOWS what Jabba is capable of while still talking like a badass, and Jabba's just being nice and polite like the stereotypical mafia boss - he'll treat you with respect and famialty up to a certain point, but if you REALLY step over the line, he'll have a bullet put in your head and feed you to the sharks without a second thought.
Also, he's just out in the street with a few thugs in that scene, not in the complete safety of his palace and the omnipotence that comes with dozens and dozens of monsters at your command. Han's missed his last chance, and now there's no more toying around with Jabba, or stepping on his tail - now you're just Bantha Poodoo.

I just like how, while the scene definitely feels like a deleted one forcefully reinserted back into the film, you can also see WHY they wanted to reinsert it, and it still works for the movie, and the series, in many ways.


So if she liked that, more power to her. Jedi Rocks, however... :D

Tyrphanax said:

twooffour said:

Tyrphanax said:

Put Captain Solo in the Cargo Hold said:

The Asian accents the Nemoidians have (one of the many controversial aspects) I actually dig, they remind me of the AIP dubs for the Godzilla movies.

I always found that outrage funny/sad. So I guess everyone in a diverse, alien-filled space population has to talk with a straight, no-accent American English voice? Everyone has to sound the same or it's racism? Is that what they want? Bland non-diversity?

I don't remember seeing any British outrage when all the members of the evil Empire spoke with their accent.

Some of these folks need to find a hobby like stamp collecting or something so they're not bothering the rest of us with their bullshit. =P

...I would agree in so far as that giving aliens Earthly accents is, well, extremely *silly*.

Having everyone talking English is one thing - it's a way to better connect with the audience and just forget about the whole inconvenient diversity thing.

These two things don't seem to make sense together!

 

Of course, if you want to go full-OT, ANH has Greedo, and the kubaz, and Ponda, and a few others who didn't speak English. Even Jabba was dubbed.

I'm just saying that you either have everyone talking English, or if you need alien languages for "realism", MAKE THEM ALIEN.

If they get to speak French, or have an Italian accent or whatever, playing it straight will probably result in awkwardness. That's all I was saying :)

Gaffer Tape said:

The six movies are really alike. So either it's your cup of tea or it isn't. It's like your the mother of twins and you hate one child and love the other. It's just not fair and irrational.

I've been thinking about this one, and it really makes no sense whatsoever.  Well, I mean besides the obvious that movies aren't children (except maybe to the creator) and are not immune to criticism.  But if you really want to bring a parent/child analogy to this, I feel mine is much more accurate:

The prequels are the favorite child, while the originals are the unfavorite.  In fact, the father hates the originals so much he feels compelled to give the unfavorite plastic surgery as much and as often as possible to make him look more like his much, much more loved brother rather than just letting him be himself.  Isn't that just an extremely dysfunctional family and a really terrible father?

Also, I object to this person's referring to the original films as the "sequel movies" when that's just entirely incorrect (unless he's referring specifically to ESB and ROTJ).  The PREQUELS are the sequel movies.

Also, to explore the twins analogy further, let's say that the first twin grows up to be a lively, charismatic, and engaging fellow, while the second ends up as a dull, drooling retard.
Does pretending they're "alike", and I mean not so much in front of them, but completely deluding yourself into thinking that there's no difference whatsoever, do any good? How about you leave the two at the playground? The smart one will be fine, while the retarded one will probably fall off some ladder in no time. But nevermind that, they're all my sweet children, and they're all ALIKE!!


"And people who dislike the PT don't know the first thing about Storytelling."
First thing about storytelling? Like, a protagonist?

xhonzi said:

adywan said:

rpvee said:

Ady, noble as it is for you to defend the films over there... seeing posts like that makes me question if it's worth it. *sigh*

You think that's bad? You haven't seen shaft_windbags comments:

Most defenders of the OOT don't even know anymore what they looked like. Sure, Jabba and the music-number could have been executed better but so do countless traditional "Toy'n'Rubber"-effects. But the "new scenes" are just the cherry on top and I'm sure nobody would want to miss any of the little tweaks and improvements the movies have now to offer!

I like it that there is ONE valid version and Lucas makes a clear decision how the movies should be presented. If there are multiple versions one only concentrates an the technical aspects of how the movies are made. To me the story is the most important thing.

Anakins Turn to the Dark Side is carefully prepared.

(On the Greedo shoots first argument) The scene is edited exactly the same. They have just cleared that insanely large smoke-cloud from the original release - so you can see that someone shoots AT ALL!

Star Wars is no showcase for actors. I would never expect an Oscar-nomination for acting for Star Wars. (Alec Guinness? Did he not know about that-idiot) That's not its strength - it's storytelling. And in that respect I have the highest of standards. Read some of the books by Joseph Campbell, C.G. Jung or Christopher Vogler and you will undoubtedly see the genius behind the saga.

The six movies are really alike. So either it's your cup of tea or it isn't. It's like your the mother of twins and you hate one child and love the other. It's just not fair and irrational.

And people who dislike the PT don't know the first thing about Storytelling. That's just my opinion. For me the PT totally hit the spot. The acting was beatifully moving, especially in the love scenes and the final confrontation between Anakin and Padme.

I guarantee that when you hear the Star Wars-Fanfare for the first time in HD-Master Audio and see the razor-sharp Opening-Scroll float into perfect black space every little bickering about Dewbacks, Spirits and Yazeems is instantly forgotten and you just say: "WOW! Let's dive into that wonderful World that is the Star Wars Galaxy!"

How is it selfish when a director on each release enhances the movie-experience and invests so much energy and care to give his latest vision to the fans. He could have said "I don't care! Star Wars sells anyway. Why bother?" but he obviously wants audiences to experience the six-part-Saga as seamlessly as possible. I deeply appreciate it. And no, not every director includes every cut and version on the movies release. It's his choice because it's his vision and only the guy himself can judge wether the movies benefit from it or not. All we can do is buy it or don't. So easy!

As I heard the concept of "midichlorians" for the first time, I thought: "That's interesting, the creator of this world gives us new information on how it works. I wonder what part the midichlorians have to play in further episodes?" And I was not let down. The midichlorians play a major part in inheriting force-sensitivity, in finding the chosen one or in creating life...

The "so called fans" on the other hands just thought: "I don't get it - I hate it!" THATs the lack of respect I was talking about - and it's small-minded.

So true! After all, he DID release the incomplete versions on DVD and the bickering hasn't stopped for one minute. Why should Lucas give in to some conservatists if it doesn't change their view of Star Wars one bit. They still would hate it. Sad... His concern aren't the "fans" but the integrity of his work - as it should be. The Movies Lucas is most satisfied with are the only ones I would want to watch!

What shelldweller wants to know is why a visionary storyteller like Lucas who single-handedly revolutionized the way movies are made and seen draws that much hate on to him? Star Wars is a timeless story that has yet to find it's match in cinemas and people forget that it was not corporate decision, a book-adaption or a remake it came out of ONE MANS IMAGINATION! For petty little "fans" who seem to lack respect for Lucas' achievements there really is only one word: PATHETIC!

Why - don't - you - people - get - it - already!? We are not talking about different cuts of a movie (like with "Donnie Darko" or "the Exorcist" Director's Cuts). The Sequel-Trilogy are with each release the most recently updated Editions of THE SAME CUT! The Sequel Movies ARE to a degree of 99,5 % the same movies you saw in cinemas or on VHS in your childhoods - with just some minor Updates. You already got those movies you want and you will get them again on Blu-Ray - just not with muted colors, scratches and aged effects but an updated version of the movies. You should be grateful and not hateful for that!

The Saga should not just be a nod to a particular childhood memory of one generation - but rather a timeless experience that trancends generations!

Its almost impossible to believe that so many Star Wars fans believe all the bull and are almost like members of a brainwashed cult where their leader can do no wrong.

 I just threw up in my mouth a little.

And by "a little" I mean "a lot".

Hehe, made my fuckin' DAY! :DD

What, she liked Jar Jar but hated Grievous? SHE'S DEAD TO ME. (Jk, jk :)

Also interesting how she complained about EPIV being "less deep", but had nothing to say about the characters, the wit, and the liveliness compared to EpIII.
Is there any way to conclude that the two movies are equal in this regard, or EpIII is even better? Now that would've been one interesting reaction!

But yea, interesting read. :D

Just rewatched Men in Black, and gee, it's easy to forget just how fun that movie is!
So genuinely funny, refreshing and entertaining. The main characters are spot-on, all the supporting characters are awesome, tons of hilarious quotable dialogue, not a single moment of artificial kitsch that makes you wanna /facepalm, and just enough involvement and menace to prevent it from being a complete OTT farce like Austin Powers (which was awesome and hilarious as such, too).

Just a great, great movie. Independence Day with its hammy patriotism, stereotype characters and occasional melodrama, can get annoying at places, and TPM is just way out of league.

I'm sorry, M0m, think next time before you post :D

Tyrphanax said:

Put Captain Solo in the Cargo Hold said:

The Asian accents the Nemoidians have (one of the many controversial aspects) I actually dig, they remind me of the AIP dubs for the Godzilla movies.

I always found that outrage funny/sad. So I guess everyone in a diverse, alien-filled space population has to talk with a straight, no-accent American English voice? Everyone has to sound the same or it's racism? Is that what they want? Bland non-diversity?

I don't remember seeing any British outrage when all the members of the evil Empire spoke with their accent.

Some of these folks need to find a hobby like stamp collecting or something so they're not bothering the rest of us with their bullshit. =P

While calling it "racist" is certainly way too OTT, I would agree in so far as that giving aliens Earthly accents is, well, extremely *silly*.

Having everyone talking English is one thing - it's a way to better connect with the audience and just forget about the whole inconvenient diversity thing.
Having aliens talk in some completely alien language? Works, too._
But making them French? Or "urban"? Or Chinese? That just rips through suspension of disbelief, and is good only for two things:
-allegory (gotta be careful with that)
-shameless camp humor (of which EpI didn't have just enough)

The only way to make a believable ethnic alien, is by having them acknowledge the actual ethnicity and culture on earth, and copying or imitating it for some understandable reason.
The Merovingian in the Matrix sequels obviously liked "being French", so he just made it so. Still can be taken as a stealth jab at French stereotypes, but it's believable in its own universe.
The Neimoidians? Ahhh....