towne32

Anecdotally, it seems like there are a lot of each type of viewer here. For anything that has ever been released cropped, there have been disappointed members soon er or later realizing that their download must be reencoded to burn.

This thread is the first I’ve seen of the anti bar (pro crop) viewpoint. I was under the impression that it has virtually no impact on compression but that might be incorrect.

nickyd47 said:

TV’s Frink said:

nickyd47 said:

SpilkaBilka said:

Right, and honestly, how does them using a team account affect anyone in the slightest? Let 'em be.

It’s not about their account, it’s about posting in their own project thread. Apparently this risks sock puppeting. I find it very offensive that these nobodies have the audacity to claim that Team_Negative1 will abuse this site. Considering their work, I think they’ve proved themselves tenfold. Team_Negative1 has never posted anything offensive or off the topic of Star Wars, it’s just people who are anal over a stupid rule. Apparently restoring Star Wars and Empire from original 35MM prints doesn’t give the Team any credibility

Well looky-here, it’s another team member!

I wish. Sadly I wasn’t involved. I would’ve loved to have been there. I wish I could be remembered as the guy who helped saved Star Wars, and not some user account on some website

We’re all grateful for their work and project. But the idea that they should get a free pass for whatever they want because they released something makes no sense. I thought OOT fans would be a little more resistant to mindless sycophancy. Most people who are into that went with Lucas long ago.

But I think that’s probably more than enough dwelling on a nonsense idea suggested an expert who registered this very week.

Darth Lucas said:

towne32 said:

Looks like it is in good shape! If you’re using premiere, I’ve got some settings to for the Mos Eisley sequence if you’d like to swap notes.

I’m using After Effects for the color correction using mainly curves adjustments. But feel free to share! I’ve been kind of putting off mos eisley because I’m concerned as to whether or not I’ll be able to get it looking good haha.

Not sure if saved presets are cross compatible, but they should at least be replicable since the tools are nearly the same.

I’m pretty happy with where it’s at, but am continuously tweaking it, sometimes detrimentally. 😃

Will post a sample tomorrow. I’m mostly using curves and sometimes total saturation as well.

Looks like it is in good shape! If you’re using premiere, I’ve got some settings to for the Mos Eisley sequence if you’d like to swap notes.

Hal 9000 said:

Well, why don’t we raise the topic and hash things out while it’s still fair game?
What does everyone think about Death Star vs Coruscant for the ending scene with Vader, Palpatine, and Tarkin?
Also, are we sure we don’t like the Russian version of the Vader scream? 😛

Death star, please.

I don’t know anything about that protection, but mpeg2/dvdr is really not ideal for preserving anything, though it is of course a convenient format if your DVD player works well with dvdr discs.

madcrow said:

team_negative1 said:

The 1.1 version will probably not be re-encoded. We are still testing it out.

However the BD version will definitely be re-encoded.

Team Negative1

Will the BR version come out as an MKV for those of us who don’t/can’t burn physical discs? Also, will there be a BD50/50 GB release for those who want ultra-high quality for projection or as a source for further projects?

It can always be remuxed or played from the m2ts.

As for the latter, I hope so. The benefit has been demonstrated in this thread. While Rob fortunately seems to be entertaining the idea, whoever is using the team account at the moment hasn’t swayed yet, as their newly described ‘vs’ project is also only planned for 25gb.

Ah I misunderstood and thought the goal was to average the 2004 version copies (to increase the quality of r2 sans rocks, the blue pod door, and the r2 jump cut). But if you’re throwing 2011 in the mix for the sake of the while film, I agree that the 2011 trumps 2004 encodings by a large enough degree that it might not matter.

brycebayer said:

35 years ago the color were different on the two prints probably but not necessarily better than the other. It’s just today the Eastman prints have faded where as the Technicolor prints have not. Technicolor had it’s own issues and especially Star Wars prints since they were at the end of the Technicolor processing line.

Yes, as poita has said, the SW technicolor prints were not really up to standard, with a lot of shots turning out too green.

Bingowings said:

Reconstruction of lost Doctor Who episodes have gone by that name for sometime but thanks for letting us know.

Yes, specifically, a talented team is called Loose Cannon. If you like their work, you might be happy to know they had a release of The Massacre a few days ago after a several year hiatus thanks to Phil Morris’s silence.

Williarob said:

towne32 said:
…
Is it going to be split screen, where the split line continually shifts back and forth as Eastman fights Technicolor, and one side eventually wins out?

We could do that if you like.

We should probably start a new thread for this, but here’s a sneak peak at what is going on with the Eastman vs Technicolor project…

http://thestarwarstrilogy.com/starwars/post/2016/01/22/Team-Negative-One-Star-Wars-v20-sneak-peek

Nice post. I understand what you are doing on a technical basis, but, to be clear: what is the actual end goal for 2.0? Technicolor source and color for as much as possible, with color matched and aligned LPP simply for the damage repair or missing frames when needed?

Dene said:

One problem with a the picture just as Han says “maybe you’d better get back in your cell”, it glitches rather badly.
I went back to the same place twice and it happened both times.
A corrupt file maybe?

Maybe. I don’t know of a problem there. Maybe you got a re-encode.

Thanks for doing these samples. It really is nice to see it uncompressed, first of all.

I’m not sure I have the best eye for comparing the various encodes, but as no one else has chimed in yet: the Chouonsoku option really does look quite nice. I loaded them into editing softare so that I could throw them on a timeline and flip through the various layers to compare and look more closely. Very clear reduction in macroblocking (or whatever the appropriate term is). And the DL version does indeed appear to be a bit nicer. When looking at high magnification, it appears that the difference between DL and lossless is lesser than the difference between SL and DL.

I really can’t say whether or not the other samples are better than TN1’s previous encode. The compression artifacts look different, but I don’t know if there is a net reduction.

Would be interested in seeing some more samples of Chouonsoku vs. lossless. Maybe a very high grain shot or two, like something including a wipe? (Luke hopping in his speeder and returning ‘home’, ‘Scum and villainy’ with wipe and speeder shot, lightsaber duel, perhaps?).

I’m glad you’re entertaining the idea of the DL route. It really does look great. Another reason to consider a high bitrate encode is that people are already considering using footage from your releases in their own projects. Not everyone will be able to get lossless files like Harmy might, so it really would help against generational losses. Obviously not your primary concern. But many people clearly see your release as their go-to and favorite version, so it would be nice if the release was as definitive and final as possible.

joefavs said:

I know exactly what you mean, that scene is green as hell. I think I might just be dissatisfied with the print references because I’m a child of home video. Didn’t Harmy base ESB 2.0 on a version of the GOUT colors that compensated for known errors? I’d love to see something like that for SW.

Well, ESB is trickier because there is no better unfaded film alternative (unless there are good super8 options).

He followed the GOUT color more or less for his SW 1.0. But it has many downsides (poorer sources, the encoding itself is much lower quality and a bit blocky, a few things are still specialized, and Harmy had yet to fully perfect his now awesome rotoscoping skills).

joefavs said:

Still a little dull on Tatooine, though. A happy medium would be spectacular.

That’s how any of the OOT versions should look, though. I think any expectation for vibrant blue skies and bright sand is bleedthrough of SE memories.

team_negative1 said:
Just because there was no official announcement of the 4k versions besides
rumors, and the samples presented, doesn’t mean they were actually completed.

So to expect an announcement about the result or non-completion of those projects
would be mistaken.

Team Negative1

Similarly, just because there was no official announcement of the 4k versions besides rumors, and the samples presented, doesn’t mean they weren’t actually completed.

To expect that there could not be an announcement about the result or completion of these projects might be mistaken.

Unless you actually have insider information you can share, then we won’t need to look for new phrases to say ‘we don’t know’.

Wazzles said:

This is all very confusing.

Frink’s team paranoia has finally cracked him.

TV’s Frink said:

towne32 said:

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

How do you know the 4k restoration was abandoned? We had official press about the cancellation of the 3D release, but nothing official that the 3D would be based on a new scan or that this scan was for the 3D.

I have no idea if they were abandoned or not, obviously.

ANOTHER TEAM MEMBER REVEALED

But you forgot to say “we.”

Wait, so everyone except team negative members know if it was abandoned? If you tell them the answer does it quit them from the team?

team_negative1 said:

fmalover said:

The Silver Screen Edition is truly amazing, I have a question though. Why didn’t you colour correct it to match the technicolor prints? IMO it would’ve made it a lot cooler.

The upcoming Eastman vs Technicolor version will take care of that.

Team Negative1

Is it going to be split screen, where the split line continually shifts back and forth as Eastman fights Technicolor, and one side eventually wins out?

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

How do you know the 4k restoration was abandoned? We had official press about the cancellation of the 3D release, but nothing official that the 3D would be based on a new scan or that this scan was for the 3D.

I have no idea if they were abandoned or not, obviously.

But weren’t they being worked on pretty close to the time of the Disney purchase? It’s possible that they wanted to do it themselves or with another team, or were in some way unhappy with some aspect of the restoration project.

What do you mean by the upper left?

So, to be clear, you’re saying these images come from Reliance’s 4K project?

LexX said:
About the missing frames, I would try to add the missing frames from other sources, even GOUT if comes to that.

I think that would really stand out and look rather poor. Since they’ve found the majority of missing frames, hopefully they can get it GOUT synced in a less intrusive manner. If they can’t, I hope they leave it to others to make unofficial GOUT synced versions in the manner they prefer (or someone trims a ton of audio tracks). Sync aside, the film doesn’t suffer at all with those frames missing.

NeverarGreat said:

The second image is my corrected version of that frame, which is a combination of the Blu-ray and -1’s release. It is a confusing comparison, apologies.

And yeah, it’s bizarre. My guess would be that whoever was working on it cut out as much of the frame as they could, then forgot about it, since the parts from the original frame don’t even have similar coloration.

Here’s another single frame issue that I’m not sure has been found yet:

This flash from the beginning of the gun turret battle is not in the Blu-ray, though remnants of it can still be seen. It is however in Silver Screen and GOUT.

Is it an actual flash or just another mis-colored first frame?

Darth Lucas said:

timemeddler said:

has anyone heard anything new about the rumor that disney was selling the rights to criterion for a bluray release of this movie?

I haven’t heard anything of the sort but that sounds unlike something Disney would ever do. They don’t want the movie out there because they feel it will hurt their image (I know, it’s dumb, but that’s how they think). They have a beautiful scan of the film digitally archived and could do a quick restoration and limited release if they wanted to, but the fact is they don’t want it out there in any capacity. They wouldn’t sell it to another company to put it out. If they were ok with it being available to people, they would release it themselves.

But I think a big part of that is not wanting it out under the Disney banner. Regardless of how limited the release is, it would be sitting on someone’s shelf with their logo on it. Doing it through Criterion gives the message that ‘look, we don’t endorse what’s on this disc, but we’re also not censoring history or denying our mistakes [as some will see it] if someone wants to sell it and someone wants to buy it’.

And Criterion doesn’t need to be political. They just need to sell high quality film releases.

Darth Lucas said:

In a way, yes haha. But at this point it’s just a placeholder until Harmy finishes his v3.

Here’s a question that hasn’t been adressed: being a native english speaker with no problem hearing, I haven’t given really much of any thought to subtitles, but having recently spent the day with a ladyfriend of mine who has a hearing deficiency and watches all movies with subtitles, it got me thinking about it. I’m not exactly sure how to work with something like project threepio within Adobe Encore, but I’m sure I’ll figure something out. That being said, what if any subtitle tracks should be included in this blu ray? I’m not sure if there’s a limit to the number of tracks I can include, but I’d like to keep it to a relative minimum.

I believe what I did for Encore was the same thing I have to do for DTS audio (it messes up the duration of hh’s DTS tracks). Insert a placeholder track that can be enabled via your menu, etc (can be some small srt), build your disc, and then swap it out for the real .sup track using multiavchd.

I do think Encore has stricter limits for number of audio tracks than a method like tsmuxer, so perhaps the same is true for subs. Not sure what the priority tracks would be. But make sure to use the .sup tracks that exclude the alien subs since those will be hardcoded.