logo Sign In

theredbaron

User Group
Members
Join date
29-Aug-2005
Last activity
6-Jan-2016
Posts
1,283

Post History

Post
#237348
Topic
General Batman Talk
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/237348/action/topic#237348
Time
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
The first part has a title that sounds like a 4th grader made it up.. "Batman Begins"... and then the second film has something mysterious, slightly gothic, and serious in its title called "The Dark Knight"... "Batman Begins" - "The Dark Knight" just doesn't have any titular compatibility! I'd be happy if it was just "Batman: The Dark Knight" that would give some continuity... or if the first film was called something like "Rise of Vengeance" THEN would "The Dark Knight" fit in. All right...


And does calling the second one Begins make any sense at all, considering the fact that it already began?


He was probably thinking something along the lines of Batman Beyond or something.
Post
#237108
Topic
Snakes on a Plane
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/237108/action/topic#237108
Time
Originally posted by: Devilman-1369
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/devilman1369/snakessmall.jpg

I caught an advance screening last night & let me just say SNAKES ON A PLANE KICKS ASS!!!!

is it a masterpiece? no, not by any stretch of the imagination.

But it's so over the top & so much fun!!! The snake gags are great...especially the 2 bathroom scenes, and Samuel L Jackson is still a bad mutha fucka

...and let me tell you, if Mace Windu said "That's it! I've had it with these muthafuckin sith in my muthafuckin temple!!!!" right before he tried to kill Palpatine, the sheer bad-assness of the statement would have had little orphan Anakin pissing in his robes & he would have been too over come with awe to intervene...Palpatine would have died, Anakin would not have turned to the dark side & the empire would have never risen, the Sith would have disappeared & the Jedi would have never been killed off.

Luke & Leia would have grown up with loving parents.

Luke would have been a great pilot just like his father

i'm sure the odd intergalactic battle would have taken place from time to time, and then, eventually, another war would break out, and Luke would be a 'hero' just like his father was

Then, one day, some cunning saboteur would get to Luke's ship, and we, the audience, would be treated to the next great summer movie...

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/devilman1369/snakes_on_an_xwing-1.jpg



Dude, that is hilarious.

I am hearing some very good things about this movie, and if what you guys are saying is anything to go by, the critics seem to be "getting it" as well - including IGN.
Post
#237101
Topic
It has begun: StarWars.com to celebrate original films
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/237101/action/topic#237101
Time
Originally posted by: Master Skywalker
Yea, LEGO Star Wars II is a great game. It has great gameplay, graphics, sounds etc., while the 2004 DVD's don't have a single of these things.
MS


Well, we don't realy know that yet, but the first one was brilliant, and you know why? They showed up the PT for the piss-take it really was. I bet there'll be a joke about who's gonna shoot first in the cantina...
Post
#236892
Topic
General Batman Talk
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/236892/action/topic#236892
Time
Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
I understood Ra's Al Ghul to be his title, not his name. I also understood him to be of British origin. But again, my comic experience is very limited.

On the subect of church desecration, it's a question of intent. After all, it was just a set, not a real church anyway. But the point is, they chose to film a pointless scene of Batman desecrating a sanctuary before climbing the bell tower for the actual fight. That's what I had the problem with then and now. It was the intent behind it that I think was less than noble, both to the story and to Christians. I'm no Bible-thumper by a LONG shot, but this always got under my skin.


And something I completely forgot to mention was the whole idea of "bats in the bellfry" - an old cathedral is practically a bat's natural habitat (well, next to a cave, but we see plenty of Batman in the Bat-cave).
Post
#236566
Topic
The Music Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/236566/action/topic#236566
Time
Originally posted by: TheSessler
After getting a taste for Japanese Pop/Rock from Anime, can anyone suggest any other good music from the land of the rising sun?


Anything from Okinawa is usually great because they are largely unaffected by the J-Pop culture of the mainland - there is one band in particular that I am thinking of, but I have forgotten the name for now - often rock 'n' roll infused with traditional Japanese music.
Post
#236504
Topic
General Batman Talk
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/236504/action/topic#236504
Time
At best, Ra's is of ambiguous ethnicity, but generally accepted to be Asian/Arabic from my understanding. I've only read Son of the Demon and Tales of the Demon so far (and waiting on Birth of the Demon) and neither of them provide conclusive answers on the subject (though I suspect, as luck would have it, that Birth provides them all).
Post
#236387
Topic
General Batman Talk
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/236387/action/topic#236387
Time
Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
You both make good points.

Actually, what I like about Batman Begins (it's been years since I've seen either Burton film, not since I was a kid, so I can't really speak to my SPECIFIC dislikes of those, such as penguins with bazookas and all..) is that it finally is able to explain sussinctly why a modern man would dress up like a giant bat and take to the underworld, fighting crime on the terms of the criminals. The comics explanations work within the logic of comic book motivations, but in Burton's films, he just sort of WAS Batman. It touched on his parents murders' at the hands of Jack Napier, but it turned it into a "You created me," ... "Well, you created ME first," angle, which, though interesting, isn't really true to the character.

That said, I definitely like the look of the Burton films, and Jack Nilchoson made a good Joker. I just think Burton was a bit wrong-headed in his implementation of the 'darker' themes.

And I guess the fact Ra's al Ghul is my favorite Batvillain doesn't hurt.


But by the same token, I think that Begins diminished both Ra's Al Ghul and Henri Ducard by making them one character...and I doubt there will be any Lazarus Pits for this Ra's...great to see Neeson in a Batman film, though, and it was a cool twist.
Post
#236366
Topic
General Batman Talk
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/236366/action/topic#236366
Time
Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Just out of curiosity, what problems did you have with The Penguin and the rest of the Burton movies aside from Catwoman?
The more time that passes from Burton's universe, the more it seems like the Adam West era. Schumaker's goes without saying as that was a deliberate attempt to return the films to their 60s camp, but Burtons films, which were supposed to be different, feel more and more like the 60s as time goes on. But that's just me. My specific issues:

* Keaton never completely sold me as being Batman. If Burton wanted to cast a Beetlejuice alumnus, he should've cast Alec Baldwin.
* Vicky Vale, who won The Pulitzer with photos of charred bodies on the front lines war, reduced herself to screaming at every turn throughout the second half of "Batman." Not only was it annoying, it was so wrong for her character.
* The fact that "Batman" should have been called "The Joker" instead due to overdeveloping the villain and underdeveloping the hero.
* The pointless desecration of a church for the finale of "Batman" was an anti-Christian vibe I picked up on from the first viewing. If you're going to desecrate a church in the name of art, at least make it a relevant plot point. I can deal with Hudson Hawk desecrating the Vatican just fine -- it is germane to the plot.
* The ham-fisted loss of Vicky Vale in the second film, and of Catwoman in the third film. These set up important character development arcs that were just flushed away for the sake of getting a fresh face.
* Missile-toting Assassin Penguins!
* The droning circus freak chick's countdown to Armageddon.
* Society muckety-mucks leaving their kids unattended at home on Christmas Eve. Apparently Gotham has no babysitters.

There is still a lot that was good in both films, but these were major flaws that kept me from ever truly loving and embracing them. And I LOVE Tim Burton flicks.

Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
(well, I honestly haven't seen Begins yet)

Make this your first order of business. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. Go straight to the video store and rent this film.

I actually got rid of all my Burton/Schumaker DVDs after seeing this film.


I disagree. For me, Keaton is and always will be THE Batman. I think he was the perfect choice for both Wayne and the Dark Knight. As great as Nicholson's performance was, I never understood why so many people even critics say that he stole the show. If a particular performance is great, does it have to diminish everything else? It was all good! For me, the atmosphere stole the show, and the aura of the Batman Burton generated overshadowed both Keaton and Nicholson. I think it did well to show that Batman is more than a man; more than Bruce Wayne.

I'm a Christian, and I have never had a problem with the fight in the cathedral (and by no means am I trying to impose my own convictions upon you, ADM): for a few reasons, both theological and theatrical. For one, there really is no such thing as desecrating a church - the church building is not the dwelling place of God - a church is a gathering of Christians in fellowship; the Church is Christianity at large; the people; and God's dwelling place is within his people. Not that I'm advocating burning down churches or the like - I'm just saying that it's just another building.

Now for the theatrical reason: it's an iconic fight between good and evil; the Joker is a demonic force and the Batman angelic. The Batman is like a gargoyle in that cathedral both in appearance and metaphysically; a sentinel watching over it, and he has deemed that a demon has entered the building and must be cast out. I think the cathedral setting served to give the fight a more spiritual dimension rather than an anti-Christian vibe, but again, I can't speak for others' reception of the material.
Post
#236345
Topic
General Batman Talk
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/236345/action/topic#236345
Time
Originally posted by: Number20
Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
I like Batman Begins but I really don't see why everyone thinks it is so great.


I agree. It wasn't bad, but I don't see why everyone thinks it was the greatest ever.
Personally, I still think Batman and Batman Returns were the best.


True that. I do think that Begins deserves to stand alongside them, though. I think it's a great Batman film with a different approach, perhaps a more literal approach, than the Burton films.
Post
#236343
Topic
The Film Industry
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/236343/action/topic#236343
Time
Hmmm...guess they don't call this joint "Off Topic" for nothing...

I suspect that the changing role of the producer may have had something to do with it as well. The producer, as I see it now, simply funds the operation and gets all the housekeeping issues out of the way so that the director et al can get on with their specific tasks. Whereas before (again, as I perceive it), producers were more hands-on and served as bouncing walls for the director and his ideas. Like Gary Kurtz - we really have him to thank for ESB, I believe.
Post
#236161
Topic
General Batman Talk
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/236161/action/topic#236161
Time
Watch it again, it's brilliant. I genuinely feel pity every time I see the penguins carrying the deceased Oswald Cobblepot out into the water. And I also believe that Burton's re-imagining of the Penguin's origins works a lot better than in the comics. Who here has read a good Penguin story in the last two decades? I've read a lot of good graphic novels with the Penguin in them (Long Halloween, Dark Victory), but none where he successfully carries as much of the story as he did in Returns. I think it was the best DeVito performance I've seen, and certainly Michelle Pfeiffer was a brilliant Catwoman.

Returns is so rich with imagery and thematic material and I find it to be a very moving film, overall.
Post
#235674
Topic
General Batman Talk
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/235674/action/topic#235674
Time
I know that Miller has pretty much lost the plot since DK2, but he did define today's Batman. We have a lot to thank him for, really, if only for Year One and DKR.

And I seriously doubt Nolan would want to enter into magic, possession or even outer-space given his approach to Begins, so I think Catwoman would be in very safe hands.
Post
#234963
Topic
General Batman Talk
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/234963/action/topic#234963
Time
Originally posted by: greencapt
Originally posted by: Han Solo VS Indiana Jones
So can anyone think of an actress who could play Catwoman in more sequels to Begins?


http://www.lostfocus.de/images/mademoiselles/morena-baccarin-03-thumb.jpg

Morena Baccarin from Firefly/Serenity.

MEEE-ow!


If you look at the Catwoman from The Long Halloween/ Dark Victory/ When in Rome or anything else by Loeb & Sale, then Morena Baccarin looks like the perfect choice, even in demeanour...

http://www.timsale1.com/catwoman/downloads/cw_coversketch_desktop.jpg

Not a lot to go off, but surely the comparison is understandable...
Post
#234852
Topic
General Batman Talk
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/234852/action/topic#234852
Time
Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
I'm referring to the shift from Batman: The Animated Series to The Adventures of Batman and Robin, which I do believe was a decision from higher up in order to safeguard the kiddies by having Robin's constant presence lighten the mood. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of Robin, and I really liked that version of Robin and didn't mind the switch, but it does kinda wrinkle my nose when a network starts demanding a shift in the direction of the show, and I think it was simply the first nail that led to the horrible animation shift later on with the WB.

I don't know, I liked most of the redesigns on TNBA. Batman, Robin, Nightwing, Batgirl, Pengiun, ESPECIALLY BANE, and Scarecrow. The only ones I really disliked was the new Joker and Riddler. Well, Ventriloquist too. I don't know what they were thinking with that one. That said, paving the way for the "The Batman" designs is a sin in and of itself.

Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Even in the comics, Batman figured out who killed his parents relatively early on. In a comic in the 1950s, Joe Chill is revealed to have been the thug who killed Thomas and Martha Wayne. Batman actually reveals himself to Joe, demasking and everything. Chill runs away to tell his goons in an attempt to get backup, but they get so pissed that Chill created Batman that they shoot him down in anger before getting to ask him who Batman was.

I'm not sure if any of this still holds in Post Crisis/Modern Era comics, but it wasn't just the movies that had that. Regardless, Batman still continued to fight crime.


Batman knowing who killed his parents has been true of most all his history. It was only changed after Zero Hour in attempt to make Batman more dark and gritty. (Implying that he wouldn't even bother fighting crime if he didn't know who had killed his parents)...

After Infinite Crisis, they've changed it back so that Joe Chill was captured and brought to justice.



Well, if you're talking about the Frank Miller Batman (who is pretty much THE Batman these days), then he doesn't know who killed his parents (though he suspects it may have been John Corben/Metallo); he has nightmares about the event almost every night; and he dances on the edge of justice and revenge.

So yeah, while it may have been true to most of his history, I'd have to say that the character of Batman was almost untenable pre-80s, particularly from the point of view of making a Batman film today. Read any 70s Batman comic and tell me that it doesn't just read like Spiderman dialogue dressed as Batman. When I read the monologues of DKR, I think finally, someone has found the voice of Batman.

Sure, some people may not be as fond of the DKR/Year One Batman as I am, but he is pretty much the entire basis for Burton's and Nolan's films (and for the comics ever since then). Since they are going for Batman as The Dark Knight, it seems to me that dark and gritty is the order of the day, and that it would be great to see Batman pushed to the edge of his sanity. They can still do it, but how can Batman's enemies (or indeed Batman himself) question his motives now when they rest on a nobler platform: "it's not who I am, but what I do that defines me" instead of "I made a promise to my parents, that I would rid the city of the evil that took their lives."

Don't get me wrong, I still like a lot of the 70s Batman comics (Strange Apparitions, Tales of the Demon), but I like them in the same way as I like the Rocky films: poor dialogue, poor acting, but a great story arc with enough charm to carry it.
Post
#234631
Topic
General Batman Talk
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/234631/action/topic#234631
Time
On a non-Animated series note, I believe that the biggest mistake(s) made in a Batman film (and this was done in the two greatest Batman films) was to reveal the identity of Bruce Wayne's parents' killer. Both times it worked great for the one film (although Begins probably could have done without it), but at the end of the day, it gave Batman direct retribution for the act that in all other media (especially the comics) haunted him and motivated him his entire life (thus meaning Batman needs a different, perhaps too noble motive to his actions in each successive film). The drive that Batman has to do what he does stems from the fact that anyone could have killed his parents; that so long as crime exists, more Martha and Thomas Waynes will die on the streets.

On another note, has anyone noticed that the name John Corben was given to the Waynes' killer in Begins? Anyone recognise this as being the same name as Superman's nemesis, Metallo (the suspicion that John Corben/Metallo killed Batman's parents was brought up in Superman/Batman: Public Enemies not too long ago)?