thebluefrog

NeverarGreat said:

thebluefrog said:

Prequels barely work in general.

Can people really come up with any prequels outside of SW that enhance the original?

Temple of Doom.

Does that really have any impact at all on the original? Does it change anything about the storyline or characters in Indy 1?

Temple of Doom may be a good MOVIE, but does it actually have any relevance as a prequel? Could it be a sequel and change nothing?

Prequels barely work in general.

Can people really come up with any prequels outside of SW that enhance the original?

fmalover said:

As bad as the prequels are, despite the overuse of CGI, and having a baroque aesthetic which contrasts with the utilitarian aesthetic of the OT, they still feel part of the SW universe.

That seems to be a general consensus. As bad as the prequels were, they still feel like part of a cohesive narrative.

The sequels are disjointed with each other, much less the rest of the story.

Servii said:
Then came TLJ. Over the two-year gap, my state of mind about Star Wars veered near complete apathy. I couldn’t bring myself to care, and I thought Star Wars just wasn’t for me anymore, but I still planned on seeing the movie, partly out of curiosity, partly out of a lingering sense of obligation. I had heard beforehand a couple vague rumors about some controversy over a thing Mark Hamill said in an interview about Luke. I went into the movie with low expectations, but still a little hopeful that the story was heading in a worthwhile direction.

I left the theater depressed.

Stardust1138 said:

As it stands I feel lots of apathy because the story I grew attached to feels incomplete and like it’s missing important pieces to the puzzle.

Apathy–there’s the deadly word in art. When you don’t feel anything for the characters, it’s a death sentence for the story. You guys mention it, and it’s a microcosm of the problem for most of the audience.

No one felt anything for the new characters after TFA. They just weren’t interesting or compelling. The hero is only as good as the villains–and the villains were terrible in the sequel trilogy. They were reduced to jokes–or, worse, boring.

Some people mentioned Poe mouthing off to Kylo as a bad start. That’s very true, but it could’ve been salvageable with the right character development post-TFA. Han mouths off to Imperials but suffers for it often, climaxing in Vader capturing him and freezing him. However, TLJ and ROS both made Kylo ineffectual and weak–he loses every fight with Rey. That’s not an interesting or threatening villain.

Hux, Phasma, Snoke, Pryde–who cares about any of them? They never seriously hurt the heroes and die as jokes. Snoke’s final scene is him cartoonishly lying there like Jar Jar, tongue hanging out and all. Hux gets slapped around by everyone INCLUDING the comic relief character Finn. Phasma does nothing memorable at all.

Vader was a threat. Darth Maul was a threat. Palpatine was a threat. There’s a reason why everyone remembers those characters, because Lucas knew how to write the most basic requirements of the hero’s journey: the villain has to be a credible challenge to be overcome.

Since nothing permanently bad happens to Rey or Finn or Poe, there’s no emotional engagement, so no one cares about them.

Apathy.

The disjointed nature of the three films proves they needed ONE director and ONE writer for all 3.

TLJ was not a sequel to TFA, and ROS was not a sequel to TLJ.

JJ and Rian wanted their own interpretations of the characters that clashed with the previous.

Kathleen Kennedy failed as a leader by assigning the duties to multiple people.

Bob Iger failed by forcing the rushed 1 Star Wars film per year rule.

Nothing was special or unique about the writing. None of the new characters will be remembered in 2040 with the possible exception of Kylo, whose TFA potential was squandered.

Disappointing on all levels by everyone involved, and they likely will not be remembered as classics or groundbreaking moments in film history.

This could be very useful for edits.

Panning shots, for example.

Knight of Kalee said:

Does anyone have a link to get the Lego voice lines? I may tinker with proposed new lines for Kylo to see how they work, such as the ‘Captain Hux’ one.

There’s a few scenes on youtube that should do the trick, try some Let’s Plays.

His turn was pretty slow when he just let Obi-Wan flip over him.

EddieDean said:

thebluefrog said:

1. I think it’d be a good idea to make a list of potential deepfake SOURCES. Other movies, games, audiobooks, interviews, etc. That would be a valuable resource for project makers to come visit the thread.

Very valuable idea. I’m happy to maintain the index, but I don’t have the time to actively hunt that all down myself. But anything that’s dropped into this thread, I’ll arrange and present in a sensible way. If it starts to get complex I’ll gladly convert it all into a spreadsheet or some other sensible reference format.

Well, just for starters, I’d say a good useful list of sources would include:

Voice clips:
-Video games. Checking the credits will show who voiced who. Let’s Play videos would be a good source.
-Audiobooks, especially if an actor reads them.
-Cartoons where the actors appear, such as Carrie Fisher or Mark Hamill.
-Youtube/online, such as Disney’s Star Wars Kids, which has actors reprise their roles. This one is good for secondary characters like Rose.
-Interviews. Often an actor will drop into character and do “the voice”, such as James Earl Jones.
-Promos and commercials: Carrie Fisher and Harrison Ford did rare commercials back in the 80s. For example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThGdJ9kfUw4&feature=youtu.be

Video clips:
-Deleted scenes, obviously.
-Making-of documentaries, which often have alternate camera angles.
-Commercials that sometimes use longer footage.
-Video game cutscenes, which can be movie quality.
-Footage from other movies, especially if they do sci-fi.
-Interviews. While they wouldn’t be in costume, their facial expressions could be used for deepfakes. I have an idea that Finn COULD be deepfaked by using footage of Boyega protesting in real life.
-Social media of the actors. Sometimes they put good quality personal vids, which again can be used for deepfake coding.

If the community works together, we could create a list just by randomly noticing things online in our daily internet browsing. “Hey, that could be useful to someone!” Then all we need is a thread for people to regularly drop links into easily.

Great thread, EddieDean!

1. I think it’d be a good idea to make a list of potential deepfake SOURCES. Other movies, games, audiobooks, interviews, etc. That would be a valuable resource for project makers to come visit the thread.

2. Any deepfake artists think it’s possible to ever do Chewbacca over another monster? Such as, say, an ape from a movie like Kong, or a werewolf, etc?

David__B said:

After reading the comic, I don’t think it confirms Snoke is a canon version of Luuke.
It certainly implies something will be made with that hand later on, but whether that’s Snoke or something else is unclear.

The comic takes place shortly after ESB, so those fully grown Snoke-like creatures (strandcasts?) being already so big and conscious after, like, a week (?) seems a bit far-fetched. Palpatine was probably already at it before he got the hand, then took it for other purposes.

I suspect, regardless of the comic, Mandolorian will eventually just explain Snoke as a genetic failsafe experiment from Palpatine’s will. Some Empire admiral will be enacting it as part of his “If I die” orders.

EddieDean said:

Whoah.

Edit: Wait, hang on. We know the Sequel trilogy often had names which were directly related to other characters.

Kylo = Skywalker + Solo.

So how about this:
It’s not Luke
It 's not Luke
‘S no’ ke
Snoke

Too much of a stretch? That ‘ke’ at the end there is suspicious either way.

And damn, if there was one person Palpatine would want to clone into a servant, it’d be Luke…

Wookiee
Wo ke
Ke Wo
E Wok
Ewok

IT ALL MAKES SENSE.

Hal 9000 said:

What if Snoke had been Maul? Hmm…

Certainly would have made for a more compelling and interesting villain.

If there was a way to turn Luke’s exile into Kylo’s exile, that’d be more thematically fitting an ending.

Kylo dying was trite and cliche and also completely predictable given that it was Disney. But having him alive, alone, living forever with his crimes…that’s more interesting a fate.

You’d have to re-edit TLJ and ROS heavily, though. Massive undertaking, would require a lot of deepfake skill to change Hamill to Driver.

Movies Remastered said:
Does Kylo really mention his grandfather after TFA? I use his fight to kill Vader in my cut so not sure if it should be more of a Palpatine speech, Vader speech or kylo just doing something before opening the chest?

He doesn’t mention his grandfather much at all, actually. Which, now that it’s pointed out, is a bit weird, and probably contributed to the slightly disjointed nature of the sequel trilogy. In-Universe, the timeline is really broken: When fighting Rey, he’s obsessed with the Skywalker legacy being his life’s purpose…10 minutes later he’s smashing it up. It’s as if TLJ Kylo is not the same character as TFA Kylo when viewed as a whole narrative.

If one were to restructure the entire sequel trilogy better, the helmet smashing would be far better 1/2 through Rise.

oojason said:

‘Fan Turns Colin Trevorrow’s Leaked Star Wars Episode 9 Script Into a Comic’:-

https://www.ign.com/articles/star-wars-episode-9-colin-trevorrow-script-turned-into-fan-comic
 

The link to the actual fan-made comic adaptation (Issues 2-6) : http://awinegarner.squarespace.com/duel-of-the-fates

 

Unfortunately, he’s clearly tracing movie stills, and it’s very distracting when artists do that. Especially when you recognize scenes.

Wish they wouldn’t do that, it degrades the quality of the artform in all ways.

I actually had an idea for remaking TFA to completely 100% change Luke’s character to be actively involved with the New Republic. There’s footage that’s usable with him interacting on ships in space. Which would mean no exile…or at least not in the same way.

This would cause a domino effect that would require a lot of editing of all 3 films…but I think it’s doable.

Alternatively, I think making “Episode 6.5” is also doable, showing him before Kylo snaps.

theprequelsrule said:

ThatPixarGuy said:

I mean with Lucas out of the picture, does anyone really care what the “true” canon is anymore?

In fairness, Pablo did say JJ contacted him regularly to check certain plot points. JJ is a shallow and poor writer, but he did at least seem to try. Even if he did muck up Rise in the end with his random rushed ideas, though part of that was the studio pressure.

Rian, who is a somewhat better writer, seemed to think his version of canon was BETTER than what those other nerds thought, so he just made up his own thing, regardless of whether it actually fit. See: Hyperspace ramming, which now changes the entire war now that one person can take out 30 ships. Why bother with weapons anymore? Just Holdo over and over until it works, it’s easier than actually shooting.

And then at the top, Bob Iger and Kathleen Kennedy don’t care either. Both have shown they are creatively bankrupt and don’t remotely care about the characterizations or plot. Bob even admitted his “1 movie a year” approach damaged the brand, and KK clearly had some sort of self-insert fantasy that Rian gave to her with Holdo.

Delpheas said:

I think the answer is no, but at any point in the ST, does Ben ever say “Grandfather” while unmasked?

Adam Driver might have in a different movie.

PressFireToPlay said:

Shows a little promise with the aspect of there being a power vacuum but you can already see the warning signs “I don’t want any human characters to get killed”

Also it is evident he did not understand the little things, the snippets of Nostalgia that appealed to us, the generation that made Star Wars successful.

The Sequels got things off amazingly well with TFA, completion opposite to the shallow prequels with obvious green screen backgrounds (although Hal’s re-edit of TPM showed there is a good film there in Episode 1), but why Rian Johnson ballsed things up with a bizaare story of spaceships going ‘just about fast enough’ to stay out of target and whilst that’s going on, lets have other characters leaving the ship and going on a merry adventure. Bizarre they even green lit his idea!

Agreed. Some critics complain that TFA had too many mystery boxes with no idea how to resolve them…but that’s what you WANT with part 1 of a new trilogy that needs to get people’s interest. Everyone was speculating on Rey’s parentage or what Luke was up to or who Snoke was…and that’s good. You want the audience invested. The fact that JJ had no idea what to do is not a bad thing in the sense that they had 2 more films to get a good writer to tie up the plotlines. Rian’s “unexpectedly throw them all away” answers were not good for part 2 of a trilogy OR part 8 of a bigger narrative–it’s as if Rian childishly wanted to make his own trilogy and thus forced the narrative to start over with his own version of the sandbox.

Move beyond the simple good and evil dynamic.

Follow the quality writing of, for example, GRR Martin’s Thrones books and have complex motivations for all characters. Actually do “There are heroes on both sides.”

Use shades of grey for characters.

The idea OF the Vong is good. An antagonist that does not care about the black and white dichotomy of Sith and Jedi. It doesn’t mean they stop being philosophical opposites, it just means that complex solutions may require complex answers and not just stabbing people.

If I had to specifically work with Disney’s sequel resources…
Rey = Grey Jedi who doesn’t embrace either side. Start off Jedi, move to Sith to counter the aggressive antagonists, end up as grey.
Finn = Instigates Stormtrooper rebellion, showing the troopers are people underneath the helmets. Start as a bit of a coward, become a leader of freedom.
Kylo = Unstable but powerful, a required compromise for the protagonists to work with against the bigger threat. Forced to curb his own destructive impulses for the greater good. Perhaps ending with a seeming death but instead in exile, left alone by the heroes just in case his expertise is ever needed for another threat 40 years later.

The point is to have character development where they end up learning and becoming different from their experiences. The war itself is, in a way, the less-important background for the characters to grow in this medium.

A three way love triangle between them would also work, as it would be character conflict and motivation. Viewers would empathize with, say, Finn having to clench his teeth and work alongside Kylo, who he hates both for political reasons AND for personal reasons with his jealousy over Rey. It would also be a good thematic mirror for the lowkey love triangle of Han/Luke/Leia (sister retcon notwithstanding) that gave Han and Luke’s friendship some depth in Empire.

Gimpy said:

sade1212 said:

The above post is severely Poe’s Law-ing me.

Nobody is Poe’s Law-ing. This is the radical redux thread. If you don’t like something, just ignore it, no need to be a dick.

If people simply ignored things they didn’t like, that’d kill over 66% of the entire internet.

Movies Remastered said:

I feel TLJ took the biggest risks but did the most damage in the process. I lived the fact they highlighted capitalism, slavery, a broken Luke and the final scene with Leia but it did miss the mark on many things. Daisy Ridley dialogue was awesome and they disrespected Ackbar. Unforgivable imo.

Yep. TLJ has some good aspects, but the bad aspects really outweigh the good–so much so it damages the franchise. If you change a character for the worse, especially when it’s the climax of a longrunning story, then that leaves a bad taste in many viewers’ mouths. See Game of Thrones as a good example of how to subvert expectations, derail a character, and retroactively ruin watching that character again since you know the ending is bad.

Since the rest of the sequel trilogy bookending TLJ ignores its characters, and with the Mandolorian subtly trying not to acknowledge them either, it seems Disney is picking up on that. We won’t be seeing [A Star Wars Story:Holdo/Rose/nameless-creepy-guy-“don’t join”]. Looking forward to finding how they will retcon Kylo’s school killing to miraculously miss Grogu (for the second time).

Movies Remastered said:

Does anyone have a super high res image/footage of Coruscant? I’ve removed the ships from Ep.II but the grain and quality of that release was awful compared to recent high-def. The 7 ish ones in google search are all pixelated or blurry.

Maybe this guy has something:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCu7FhoDhtc

Dr. Krogshöj said:
You were supposed to cheer for Ahsoka and Bo-Katan and Boba Fett turning up

Well, you may have had the wrong dub. Here’s how it actually happened:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av8HbJHza4s